Just started playing my Skred deck again. I went 3-1 at my lgs, playing against, affinity, mono-white death and taxes, bant eldrazi,and losing to Grixis Death's Shadow in the final round. What's the general strategy against DS? Also does Obliterate seem like a worthy sb card with all these big mana decks showing up from the last GP results?
Regarding Obliterate: I played with it a bit. It probably doesn't fix what we need fixed. Decks like Tron will reach the number they need to do obscene things well before you resolve Obliterate. Their Wurmcoil Engines, Karn, Ugin, and Ulamog all survive it to varying degrees. For it to have an impact, you'll need to draw it, land a Blood Moon in time to stall them, and then use a Karn or Chandra to hopefully cast it a bit earlier. The best case is you get this to happen turn 5, but it's more likely too late.
Where Obliterate is amazing is when we are fighting true, long-game control decks. Particularly, decks which use blue and rely heavily on countermagic often keel over and die to the one or two Obliterates in your library because they literally can do nothing about it, and can't outrace you. However, it's not as relatively powerful as it was back in 2001 because control decks (a) often have a faster clock now, in the form of an aggro-plan or combo-plan, (b) may in fact have answers, since discard and ban-effects are increasingly prevalent, and (3) we're a red deck that can actually crush control in a fair fight anyway, because we usually have way more good threats than they have good answers. If I was that worried about blue, I'd actually prefer Boil. Against Tron, Molten and Stone Rain seem better (or Crumble to Dust, if you're a gambling sort).
Regarding GDS: I haven't really had THAT much of a problem with it, once I got experienced in the matchup. You can have problems if they get an active Tsaigur or Angler on turn 2, but usually that doesn't happen. Be aggressive with Relic, prioritizing casting it, and cleaning the GY before they'd get the opportunity to cast the Delve creature. Eventually, these things can just be removed by Skred or blocked by a Monstrous Stormbreath Dragon. PnKN tends to buy a lot of time as well, unless they have TBR (which I've gotten blown out by, I think it's coming back into style). Blood Moon can sometimes just shut most of their deck down. Boros Reckoner will give them fits if they don't have Fatal Push handy, and they often just can't remove Stormbreath. Also, save your Bolts and other ways of dealing direct damage, because sometimes they will just do enough of your work for you.
Dies to K-command, Fatal Push, and doesn't even trade with the bigboys of the format Tasigur/Angler. You can still use it with Godo or Reckoner for some insane/janky value, but Wurmcoil is better right now because it can straight up win games by itself against most decks without Path.
Thunderbreak was pretty decent, but we have better cards now. Mainly ToD. Hes good when we're even or ahead on board because Flying is pretty good ability, but he doesn't do much when we're behind.
Tip/Reminder for Tron matchup: You should try to animate their lands with Koth and then kill them with Skreds to keep them off 5-6 mana. Our removal don't do much against their creatures anyway. Be sure to target the most recent land they played if possible to prevent them from floating mana, and retapping the land for mana to blow O-stone.
Obliterate is usually too slow and only for madmen. Play it mainboard.
I actually forget the Koth+BM+Skred mana denial strategy. Interesting, but probably still too slow and conditional mostly. Might make the match slightly less bad, though.
What do you guys think of having 2 Surgical Extraction in the side to help with tron (and others)?
It has potential, but then we're looking for the unlikely mix of Koth+BM+Skred+Extraction to get the job done, and I'm not sure it's that much better than simply adding Molten Rain (since their Urza lands are now Mountains, anyway).
It's a combination of those things including the molten rain. I was thinking surgical extraction in place of crumbling dust, since it has more versatility in other match-ups, and potentially a turn 3 version (with stone rain + surgical extraction).
Surgical is card disadvantage, and crumbling dust is better against tron. It is true that it has more versatility, but we already run x4 relics in the main. I'm not sure we need even more graveyard hate.
RE Batterskull: It depends on your build of the deck. If you're already really heavy on the five drops, you should skimp on it. I personally wouldn't play more than three five mana creatures right now given what we need to do to keep up with the current top decks. Thus, I run a 2-1 split of Stormbreath Dragon and Batteskull. I also believe Wurmcoil Engine is a bit of trap. It offers a lot, and I'm more than willing to try it as a one-of, but six mana is a lot to ask from us in the early game, especially when slamming Koth generally means turning the corner. If the game has gone late, we're probably winning anyway. I guess I'll give it a shot, but I'm not optimistic.
Speaking of trying newer cards, would ever happened to Hazoret? Whenever I player her she was just absurd, often combining with Koth to drop the opponent from double digits to zero in a single turn. Her activated ability can give us the reach we need when combat is out of the question, and I think it warrants further testing. Finally, is anyone going to SCG Columbus? I know I'll be jamming Snow-Covered Mountains in the main event!
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Hazoret the Fervent fills a slot similar to Dragons: a hasty, big, removal-resistant red-zone primary finisher. Her second power is also handy, mostly for punching through some occasionally odd effects. But there are some key differences: she lacks flying, her creature status is conditional, she's legendary, and she is vulnerable to Path to Exile (versus Stormbreath Dragon, which is instead vulnerable to Wrath of God). She's not bad, especially as 1x or 2x, but is often not preferred due to our overloading the 4-cc slot and having preferable 5-cc options in any particular metagame.
I've been playing wurmcoil a lot in other decks, and its pretty much GG against most decks without path. It forces the opponent to spend so many resources and so much time dealing with it. With Koth, Mind stones, and Chandra it should be pretty easy to land it early enough. The only thing is that it doesn't do much against combo decks.
I really like it, I think its a powerful 3-4 drop and running one or two could be good.
At the very least, if we keep getting cards that nonbo with relics, we will reach a point where cutting them can be a good option. Right now GDD by itself isn'enough to entice me.
I think it's a very situational card, as it will always be dependant on what instants/sorceries your opponent is playing, if any; the fact that we are running 3-4 relics is also something to be aware of and i wouldn't cut them to help enable the card.
My thoughts on the RIX spoilers:
- The new pirate's fun, but as pointed out it's essentially a 3-4 drop, which isn't really a weak point for our deck.
- Blood Sun isn't something we're interested in, right? Shame, cause I think it's great card design.
- Rekindling Phoenix, Etali, and Form of the Dinosaur are all cute fun-ofs, but not actually good.
I'm not bummed, though. Even if these specific printings aren't good for us, they're continued evidence that Wizards is exploring design space for Big Red and Utility Red spells. Sooner or later they'll print another great Skred card .
not to mention shocklands/dual lands in general. sun isn't a card i'd bother playing even if moon didn't exist.
moon can auto-win vs nearly any multi-color deck that isn't careful about how it fetches, sun is a mild annoyance at best.
frankly these recent few sets have been disappointing me in the big red department. a couple wacky big cards like etali or form of the dinosaur, but nothing that would actually make sense to run in a real modern list.
we got nothing to add from this set or amonkhet save that new flavoring of 3-mana-3-point-sweep. and more importantly they're not really exploring any terribly interesting design spaces for red atm.
back when commune with lava ( a card i still recommend as a one-of ) was printed, i was excited/hopeful. it looked like WotC had found their footing with the 'impulse' mechanic and were finally going to be able to give red some ways of directly generating card advantage, but new chandra's been the last we've seen of it.
maybe i'm just dumb, but i'm not seeing useful utility spells being printed in red
Regarding Obliterate: I played with it a bit. It probably doesn't fix what we need fixed. Decks like Tron will reach the number they need to do obscene things well before you resolve Obliterate. Their Wurmcoil Engines, Karn, Ugin, and Ulamog all survive it to varying degrees. For it to have an impact, you'll need to draw it, land a Blood Moon in time to stall them, and then use a Karn or Chandra to hopefully cast it a bit earlier. The best case is you get this to happen turn 5, but it's more likely too late.
Where Obliterate is amazing is when we are fighting true, long-game control decks. Particularly, decks which use blue and rely heavily on countermagic often keel over and die to the one or two Obliterates in your library because they literally can do nothing about it, and can't outrace you. However, it's not as relatively powerful as it was back in 2001 because control decks (a) often have a faster clock now, in the form of an aggro-plan or combo-plan, (b) may in fact have answers, since discard and ban-effects are increasingly prevalent, and (3) we're a red deck that can actually crush control in a fair fight anyway, because we usually have way more good threats than they have good answers. If I was that worried about blue, I'd actually prefer Boil. Against Tron, Molten and Stone Rain seem better (or Crumble to Dust, if you're a gambling sort).
Regarding GDS: I haven't really had THAT much of a problem with it, once I got experienced in the matchup. You can have problems if they get an active Tsaigur or Angler on turn 2, but usually that doesn't happen. Be aggressive with Relic, prioritizing casting it, and cleaning the GY before they'd get the opportunity to cast the Delve creature. Eventually, these things can just be removed by Skred or blocked by a Monstrous Stormbreath Dragon. PnKN tends to buy a lot of time as well, unless they have TBR (which I've gotten blown out by, I think it's coming back into style). Blood Moon can sometimes just shut most of their deck down. Boros Reckoner will give them fits if they don't have Fatal Push handy, and they often just can't remove Stormbreath. Also, save your Bolts and other ways of dealing direct damage, because sometimes they will just do enough of your work for you.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
How does everyone feel about Batterskull? is it viable or even wanted in the greater meta?
Thunderbreak was pretty decent, but we have better cards now. Mainly ToD. Hes good when we're even or ahead on board because Flying is pretty good ability, but he doesn't do much when we're behind.
Tip/Reminder for Tron matchup: You should try to animate their lands with Koth and then kill them with Skreds to keep them off 5-6 mana. Our removal don't do much against their creatures anyway. Be sure to target the most recent land they played if possible to prevent them from floating mana, and retapping the land for mana to blow O-stone.
Obliterate is usually too slow and only for madmen. Play it mainboard.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
It has potential, but then we're looking for the unlikely mix of Koth+BM+Skred+Extraction to get the job done, and I'm not sure it's that much better than simply adding Molten Rain (since their Urza lands are now Mountains, anyway).
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Speaking of trying newer cards, would ever happened to Hazoret? Whenever I player her she was just absurd, often combining with Koth to drop the opponent from double digits to zero in a single turn. Her activated ability can give us the reach we need when combat is out of the question, and I think it warrants further testing. Finally, is anyone going to SCG Columbus? I know I'll be jamming Snow-Covered Mountains in the main event!
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I made a discord for us to talk about the deck, or just to chill. Hop on in
https://discord.gg/t2y9aEp
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
At the very least, if we keep getting cards that nonbo with relics, we will reach a point where cutting them can be a good option. Right now GDD by itself isn'enough to entice me.
- The new pirate's fun, but as pointed out it's essentially a 3-4 drop, which isn't really a weak point for our deck.
- Blood Sun isn't something we're interested in, right? Shame, cause I think it's great card design.
- Rekindling Phoenix, Etali, and Form of the Dinosaur are all cute fun-ofs, but not actually good.
I'm not bummed, though. Even if these specific printings aren't good for us, they're continued evidence that Wizards is exploring design space for Big Red and Utility Red spells. Sooner or later they'll print another great Skred card .
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
moon can auto-win vs nearly any multi-color deck that isn't careful about how it fetches, sun is a mild annoyance at best.
frankly these recent few sets have been disappointing me in the big red department. a couple wacky big cards like etali or form of the dinosaur, but nothing that would actually make sense to run in a real modern list.
we got nothing to add from this set or amonkhet save that new flavoring of 3-mana-3-point-sweep. and more importantly they're not really exploring any terribly interesting design spaces for red atm.
back when commune with lava ( a card i still recommend as a one-of ) was printed, i was excited/hopeful. it looked like WotC had found their footing with the 'impulse' mechanic and were finally going to be able to give red some ways of directly generating card advantage, but new chandra's been the last we've seen of it.
maybe i'm just dumb, but i'm not seeing useful utility spells being printed in red
... I officially hate everything about this entire block.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB