infect will be far from dead, they got some new toys to help make up for the loss of git-probe. definitely gonna see a drop in play though.
more broadly, no more git-probe means at least a slight inconvenience to the consistency of most combo decks, which is good news considering the average combo deck challenges us more than most.
dredge is definitely gonna be hurting at least a noticeable bit.
i think fatal push is easily the best thing to happen FOR skred in a minuet. a-lot of the more general, but slower, black removal will get fazed out at least to some small extent in favor of fatal push. so fewer dismembers, terminates, slaughter pacts, etc. we're looking at a removal spell that rivals both bolt and path.
this new trinity of high-quality removal spells all share a single commonality, they can't kill stormbreath. this even benefits sarkhan and GDD among others. this is VERY good for us. the % of decks that simply can't answer our late-game threats profitably is guaranteed to increase because of this.
But wait! there's more! an inevitable rise in fatal pushes may just lead to a decrease in low-cmc high-p/t creatures that we can struggle to answer early on. (this may backfire slightly and lead to one or two more angler's than we'd like, but oh well)
there's other potential benefits to come from this too, but personally, even if the list stops here i'm rather pleased.
i think the main thing that could stand to really screw us in all this is if tron, of any variety, picks up steam.
also, @okoSheep, if U-tron is only our 2nd worst MU, what's worse by your estimation? personally i've not found more trouble with any other deck than U-tron.
personally i've not found more trouble with any other deck than U-tron.
Ad Nauseam is a tad bit closer to unwinnable than U-tron
You make a very good point on the impact of Sparta-kick, maybe it's time to start playing 5-drops again. Sarkhan is still awkward in the wake of path, but I'm tempted to finally play GDD if the meta truly gets a bit slower due to higher cmc dudes.
Wait, you guys quit playing five drops? I missed the memo than: I've been playing 2 Stormbreath and 1 Batterskull mainboard for quite some time! I do really want to test GDD, it seems so good if Jund picks up steam.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
Might only be me, but I prefer playing a lower curve and 22 lands since I'm on Spirit Guides again. A P&K alongside walker was always my main wincon anyway.
Can't get myself to like Mind Stones, the turn 3 Koth/P&K happened too rarely to compensate for it being an expensive cycler.
Is it possible that as increase in GBx decks means we switch back to Double Dragon? P&K are already pretty good against them, but hurting their removal seems pretty good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
Played a bunch of casual matches tonight against a friend who just got into U Tron... what a beating. I think I went 1-6 or so, half and half between pre and post board games. Gx Tron feels like a decent matchup by comparison.
Definitely opened my eyes to the deck as I've only seen it in person once before. In cases like this where a matchup is beyond terrible, do we even worry about it? Or just take the loss if we happen to run into it and move on?
Got my head kicked in, 2-2 at a local tourney, losing to UB Mill and Affinity and winning against Ad Nauseum and the dreaded player known as "The Bye." Overall glad it happened, I learned a lot. For example, wrath Affinity as soon as possible instead of saying a t3 Mind Stone is fine. Thoughtseize is a card, people! Ah well, back to the drawing board. I might go up to 3 Eternal Scourge in order to not be totally dead on the ground when I run out of removal.
2-2 and "got my head kicked in"? Haha dang. Maybe I have low standards but if I go 2-2 and have some fun it's a win for me
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
currently playing
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG WUBR Affinity WUBR x Eldrazi Tron x UG Tropical Merfolk UG
I considered it pretty bad because I kept getting wrecked by Affinity, what should be a decent matchup. Mill was annoying, and then getting paired against Ad Naus sucked. Maybe I was on hard tilt mode or something, but that Affinity deck always had what it needed. Normally I consider 2/2 fine, but that was different to me for some reason. Truthfully, it's a game and I should lighten up lol.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
If infect players add even more protection spells with the 4 new slots I may go up to 3 sudden shock in the sideboard, however that would be rough considering I already run 4 Molten Rain and 3 Rabblemaster's for the Tron matchup... and taking up 10 slots for 2 matchups just sounds bad. On a side note at least there will be less combo which is by far our worst matchup.
If it's not too much to ask, can someone please help me compare/contrast the adonis list vs the GP dallas winning list? Stuff like what are the advantages/disadvantages of mainboarding stormbreaths and why does the adonis list run pyrite spellbombs and not ricochet trap and rabblemasters on the side.. And I guess I also wanna know which list has a better chance against U-tron lol..
I guess for a side note I remember when kevin mackie was interviewed after GP dallas he said he made a mistake running 22 lands, and that the list really needed one more.. So I'm gonna ignore land count in the compare/contrast.
We need to stop looking at Adonis2k's list. It's good but at this point it might not be what we want since it's tuned very specifically for the pre Dredge meta (like when SCG Commentators last said Jund was the best deck in modern). The Eternal Scourge lists are still good, but in a Tron favored metagame the deck has almost no clock to it and will probably lose to a lot of decks because of it. It doesn't matter if it has a history of 5-0s in modern leagues on mtgo, it's just not that good anymore.
Also Adonis2k has said that ricochet trap is well. A trap. You don't need it for any blue matchup (including Utron) just go threat heavy and 9/10 if you play smart you'll win.
The reason Kevin Mackie played storm death dragon was to have a serious clock (wins in 3 turns if you can pay for monstrous at any point).
We need to stop looking at Adonis2k's list. It's good but at this point it might not be what we want since it's tuned very specifically for the pre Dredge meta (like when SCG Commentators last said Jund was the best deck in modern). The Eternal Scourge lists are still good, but in a Tron favored metagame the deck has almost no clock to it and will probably lose to a lot of decks because of it. It doesn't matter if it has a history of 5-0s in modern leagues on mtgo, it's just not that good anymore.
Also Adonis2k has said that ricochet trap is well. A trap. You don't need it for any blue matchup (including Utron) just go threat heavy and 9/10 if you play smart you'll win.
The reason Kevin Mackie played storm death dragon was to have a serious clock (wins in 3 turns if you can pay for monstrous at any point).
ok so a tron-favored meta will lean more towards the mackie list or something entirely different? Around 2-3 months ago when I asked which direction I should go I was pointed towards the adonis list. If that's not exactly the case anymore, what's the best reference as of now?
Let's be honest here, the list mackie was using IS adonis's list. There is like a 3 card difference, and that's entirely because the list was a few months out of date. (eg. theres no reason for adonis to have pyromaster or volcanic when ToD and anger are nearly strictly better)
If you REALLY want to beat tron, I'd all-in with simians + rabblemasters on the side, or even the main.
My standard for this deck used to be 3-1 (in the prize pool) every fnm, but lately I've been going 2-2. I'm also using adonis varient list, but I think it's time to change it up. Maybe start over from scratch, because things aren't working anymore. I think its time to bring back Reckoners. Volcanic fallout + reckoner is underrated, maybe we can go back to it since dredge got hit pretty hard.
I'll also be trying doubled dragons again with Dragon Tempest. I think we need to shove harder in this meta instead of being grindy. We did well because we had a sweetspot between being aggressive/grindy, if we can readjust we will probably be fine again.
We need to stop looking at Adonis2k's list. It's good but at this point it might not be what we want since it's tuned very specifically for the pre Dredge meta (like when SCG Commentators last said Jund was the best deck in modern). The Eternal Scourge lists are still good, but in a Tron favored metagame the deck has almost no clock to it and will probably lose to a lot of decks because of it. It doesn't matter if it has a history of 5-0s in modern leagues on mtgo, it's just not that good anymore.
Also Adonis2k has said that ricochet trap is well. A trap. You don't need it for any blue matchup (including Utron) just go threat heavy and 9/10 if you play smart you'll win.
The reason Kevin Mackie played storm death dragon was to have a serious clock (wins in 3 turns if you can pay for monstrous at any point).
ok so a tron-favored meta will lean more towards the mackie list or something entirely different? Around 2-3 months ago when I asked which direction I should go I was pointed towards the adonis list. If that's not exactly the case anymore, what's the best reference as of now?
We need to stop looking at Adonis2k's list. It's good but at this point it might not be what we want since it's tuned very specifically for the pre Dredge meta (like when SCG Commentators last said Jund was the best deck in modern). The Eternal Scourge lists are still good, but in a Tron favored metagame the deck has almost no clock to it and will probably lose to a lot of decks because of it. It doesn't matter if it has a history of 5-0s in modern leagues on mtgo, it's just not that good anymore.
Also Adonis2k has said that ricochet trap is well. A trap. You don't need it for any blue matchup (including Utron) just go threat heavy and 9/10 if you play smart you'll win.
The reason Kevin Mackie played storm death dragon was to have a serious clock (wins in 3 turns if you can pay for monstrous at any point).
ok so a tron-favored meta will lean more towards the mackie list or something entirely different? Around 2-3 months ago when I asked which direction I should go I was pointed towards the adonis list. If that's not exactly the case anymore, what's the best reference as of now?
There's several of them in the primer.
and that's exactly my point. I'm very new not only to skred but to modern as a whole, with a very limited budget to spend for pieces. As fun as it sounds to cycle through all the decks in the primer, I unfortunately can't, hence my question.
But anyway, okoSheep mentioned a need for change so I guess that baseline list I'm looking for is still a work in progress and there's not really an answer for that now. So cksboy are you still using the last list you posted? With the 3 stormbreaths and 4 moons main? And are you experienceing the same decline from 3-1 average to 2-2 as okoSheep said?
more broadly, no more git-probe means at least a slight inconvenience to the consistency of most combo decks, which is good news considering the average combo deck challenges us more than most.
dredge is definitely gonna be hurting at least a noticeable bit.
i think fatal push is easily the best thing to happen FOR skred in a minuet. a-lot of the more general, but slower, black removal will get fazed out at least to some small extent in favor of fatal push. so fewer dismembers, terminates, slaughter pacts, etc. we're looking at a removal spell that rivals both bolt and path.
this new trinity of high-quality removal spells all share a single commonality, they can't kill stormbreath. this even benefits sarkhan and GDD among others. this is VERY good for us. the % of decks that simply can't answer our late-game threats profitably is guaranteed to increase because of this.
But wait! there's more! an inevitable rise in fatal pushes may just lead to a decrease in low-cmc high-p/t creatures that we can struggle to answer early on. (this may backfire slightly and lead to one or two more angler's than we'd like, but oh well)
there's other potential benefits to come from this too, but personally, even if the list stops here i'm rather pleased.
i think the main thing that could stand to really screw us in all this is if tron, of any variety, picks up steam.
also, @okoSheep, if U-tron is only our 2nd worst MU, what's worse by your estimation? personally i've not found more trouble with any other deck than U-tron.
Ad Nauseam is a tad bit closer to unwinnable than U-tron
You make a very good point on the impact of Sparta-kick, maybe it's time to start playing 5-drops again. Sarkhan is still awkward in the wake of path, but I'm tempted to finally play GDD if the meta truly gets a bit slower due to higher cmc dudes.
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes
Can't get myself to like Mind Stones, the turn 3 Koth/P&K happened too rarely to compensate for it being an expensive cycler.
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Definitely opened my eyes to the deck as I've only seen it in person once before. In cases like this where a matchup is beyond terrible, do we even worry about it? Or just take the loss if we happen to run into it and move on?
2-2 and "got my head kicked in"? Haha dang. Maybe I have low standards but if I go 2-2 and have some fun it's a win for me
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
I guess for a side note I remember when kevin mackie was interviewed after GP dallas he said he made a mistake running 22 lands, and that the list really needed one more.. So I'm gonna ignore land count in the compare/contrast.
GP Dallas winning list:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13917&d=282352&f=MO
Adonis list:
20 Snow-covered Mountain
3 Scrying Sheets
Creatures
4 Pia & Kiran Nalaar
2 Eternal Scourge
Planeswalkers
4 Koth of the Hammer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Instant/Sorcery
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skred
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Roast
1 Magma Jet
1 Volcanic Fallout
3 Blood Moon
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Mind Stone
1 Batterskull
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Molten Rain
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Sudden Shock
1 Shattering Spree
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Vandalblast
Also Adonis2k has said that ricochet trap is well. A trap. You don't need it for any blue matchup (including Utron) just go threat heavy and 9/10 if you play smart you'll win.
The reason Kevin Mackie played storm death dragon was to have a serious clock (wins in 3 turns if you can pay for monstrous at any point).
ok so a tron-favored meta will lean more towards the mackie list or something entirely different? Around 2-3 months ago when I asked which direction I should go I was pointed towards the adonis list. If that's not exactly the case anymore, what's the best reference as of now?
If you REALLY want to beat tron, I'd all-in with simians + rabblemasters on the side, or even the main.
My standard for this deck used to be 3-1 (in the prize pool) every fnm, but lately I've been going 2-2. I'm also using adonis varient list, but I think it's time to change it up. Maybe start over from scratch, because things aren't working anymore. I think its time to bring back Reckoners. Volcanic fallout + reckoner is underrated, maybe we can go back to it since dredge got hit pretty hard.
I'll also be trying doubled dragons again with Dragon Tempest. I think we need to shove harder in this meta instead of being grindy. We did well because we had a sweetspot between being aggressive/grindy, if we can readjust we will probably be fine again.
There's several of them in the primer.
21 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Scrying Sheets
Creatures (6)
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (7)
4 Koth of the Hammer
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skred
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Roast
Enchantments and Artifacts (11)
4 Blood Moon
4 Mind Stone
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Molten Rain
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pithing Needle
2 Shattering Spree
2 Grafdigger's Cage
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
and that's exactly my point. I'm very new not only to skred but to modern as a whole, with a very limited budget to spend for pieces. As fun as it sounds to cycle through all the decks in the primer, I unfortunately can't, hence my question.
But anyway, okoSheep mentioned a need for change so I guess that baseline list I'm looking for is still a work in progress and there's not really an answer for that now. So cksboy are you still using the last list you posted? With the 3 stormbreaths and 4 moons main? And are you experienceing the same decline from 3-1 average to 2-2 as okoSheep said?
You don't feel too much redundancy with 4 moons and 3 chandras?