I think Hangarback Walker is hands down the best 2-drop creature we have use for, but even that isn't good enough here to be a staple. It's not like we'll have to have a good T2 threat either as that turn is often used to ramp out a moon or put down a Mind Stone depending on the list. I really want Shrine of Burning Rage to be a thing tho, and it IS a strong play.. on turn 2. Sadly it doesn't take many turns into the game before it's a pretty awkward topdeck. Could be sideboard against control, but honestly we don't really have an urge to improve those matchups.
Against Jund there's not much to be changed. Ditching some sweeper for Molten Rains usually do the trick, and I find Rabblemaster to be a good include too if you run them. Not much to do about discard, really. In the end it's just a 1:1 trade card-wise so just make sure you get down as useful cards as them to keep up.
i agree with this statement but our deck runs pretty efficiently on mana, so i would rather see a moutain pushed rather than anything else. i'm sure our opp will have another mountain to deal with eventually. another tidbit is that if push competes with bolt it makes our planeswalkers stronger.
So I spent the last day looking over spoilers and making proxies. Here's what I'm going to be testing over the next month after set release:
Chandra's Revolution
Really it's the new Red mana denial mechanic I want to pay with more than the 4 damage to a creature, this is likely the worst one in the list.
Hope of Ghirapur
This might be the silver bullet we could use for spell based combo decks like Storm and Ad Nauseam.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
I feel underwhelmed by this card in general, but it could be worth the effort in testing it.
Kari Zev's Expertise
Threated Effects have been mediocre in the past, but it could be situationally good, and we get to cast a free spell. So seems like a potentially serviceable card.
Pia's Revolution
It's a "build around me" card, I'll test a couple brews with it.
Treasure Keeper
I hear the Cascade mechanic from Alara is fun, this isn't cascade, but it does give us some value if and when it dies the 4CMC cost might be a little too high for it though.
Walking Ballista
I'm not sure it's a better pyrite spellbomb since this is much worse early game draw, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
Wrangle
2CMC Threaten, this could be very useful in a lot of ways. Not only am I going to test this in modern. But, I'm for sure paying it in standard.
So I spent the last day looking over spoilers and making proxies. Here's what I'm going to be testing over the next month after set release:
Chandra's Revolution
Really it's the new Red mana denial mechanic I want to pay with more than the 4 damage to a creature, this is likely the worst one in the list.
Hope of Ghirapur
This might be the silver bullet we could use for spell based combo decks like Storm and Ad Nauseam.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
I feel underwhelmed by this card in general, but it could be worth the effort in testing it.
Kari Zev's Expertise
Threated Effects have been mediocre in the past, but it could be situationally good, and we get to cast a free spell. So seems like a potentially serviceable card.
Pia's Revolution
It's a "build around me" card, I'll test a couple brews with it.
Treasure Keeper
I hear the Cascade mechanic from Alara is fun, this isn't cascade, but it does give us some value if and when it dies the 4CMC cost might be a little too high for it though.
Walking Ballista
I'm not sure it's a better pyrite spellbomb since this is much worse early game draw, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
Wrangle
2CMC Threaten, this could be very useful in a lot of ways. Not only am I going to test this in modern. But, I'm for sure paying it in standard.
I dont know if this list is too far off, or if it is still right for this topic.
Basically, it has a lot of the same ideas and cards as skred red, but not skred itself.
Instead of the snow lands, colorless lands.
As you can see, a lot of the elements are very similar.
Sea gate wreckage replaces scrying sheets, talisman instead of mind stone. relic, blood moon/LD package (in the SB), value 3 and 4 drops you can ramp into, etc.
The skreds and lightning bolts are gone, replaced by SSG powered chalices and thorns as early disruptive elements.
what do you think?
While it's a cool build it contributes nothing to this primer and you better off looking in another thread.
Pros and cons of the above version:
Sea gate wreckage is just better at keeping the gas coming.
You get mor explosive starts thxs to the eldrazi SSG package
You can block Etched champion
Chalice and thorn are really powerful vs a lot of decks, especially on turn one.
Downsides:
You lose skred, thus making it harder to interact with big creatures. Kalitas, goyf, siege rhino, and so on are all a lot more problematic to deal with.
Skred and especially Koth are the heart of this deck, without either it's gonna be a hard sell here. In principal they're both attempting to survive the first 3 turns through creature disruption while presenting a large threat, but I'm thinking for this thread it's probably a bridge too far...
Losing mountains to fatal push sounds kinda depressing
Ever had them Condemmed? That is legitimately one of the worst feelings in the world.
Been to a few small tourneys, and I did alright. 3-2 on Friday, and an abyssmal 1-3 on Saturday. Would've been 2-2, but my opponent top decked Scapeshift at the last possible secomd (they were fantastic games though!). Batterskull has earned its spot, but I'm missing having a second Chandra. I might cut my Roasts for more flexibility. Thoughts?
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
Losing mountains to fatal push sounds kinda depressing
Ever had them Condemmed? That is legitimately one of the worst feelings in the world.
Been to a few small tourneys, and I did alright. 3-2 on Friday, and an abyssmal 1-3 on Saturday. Would've been 2-2, but my opponent top decked Scapeshift at the last possible secomd (they were fantastic games though!). Batterskull has earned its spot, but I'm missing having a second Chandra. I might cut my Roasts for more flexibility. Thoughts?
I've been on 1 Chandra for a while and not really missing the 2nd one at all.
What do you think of the bannings? Golgari Grave-Troll and Gitaxian Probe. This will make our Infect MU even better than it already is, forcing them to play blind into our removal. This B&R update has only improved our already good matchups. We should be happy we're not playing storm.
i'm scared to be honest. i know that GW tron has been quietly picking up steam, and with planar bridge coming out it'll see a resurgence not seen since ugin. as well, fatal push is the best removal in the format for boros reckoner, so i'm scared of that too. infect and dredge were favored matchups for us, and whatever is coming to fill the void left by salty players throwing those decks away has me shook
i'm scared to be honest. i know that GW tron has been quietly picking up steam, and with planar bridge coming out it'll see a resurgence not seen since ugin. as well, fatal push is the best removal in the format for boros reckoner, so i'm scared of that too. infect and dredge were favored matchups for us, and whatever is coming to fill the void left by salty players throwing those decks away has me shook
Exactly where I am at. Infect and Dredge got worse, this is true. The hidden price of this is that they will see less play. Now whatever becomes the next big decks, along with Fatal Push, which kills our Koth mountains, is honestly terrifying. I'm debating how playable this deck is now. In other words, we have less good matchups now. We have to reverse-metagame this ban list update and see where we stand that way.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
U tron is probably our 2nd worst matchup, while G/x tron is pretty disadvantage.
We do have blood moon and molten rains, but we can't win fast enough. They usually just drop an O-stone or wurmcoil and we can't do anything from that point.
I'm quite surprised for any of the bannings, didn't really consider Dredge a problem. And while Probe is a sick value card, we don't see T3 combo decks going havoc either. However I'm happy that Kiln Burn and Storm will be even less playable.
As for Fatal Push.. it's just another removal, still 1:1 trade. Nothing to worry about. Planar Bridge is a bit more to talk about, because that got sick potential in tron. Just remember how good Eye of Ugin was in that deck, this is better (althought it can't be fetched with Map).
Against Jund there's not much to be changed. Ditching some sweeper for Molten Rains usually do the trick, and I find Rabblemaster to be a good include too if you run them. Not much to do about discard, really. In the end it's just a 1:1 trade card-wise so just make sure you get down as useful cards as them to keep up.
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes
Chandra's Revolution
Really it's the new Red mana denial mechanic I want to pay with more than the 4 damage to a creature, this is likely the worst one in the list.
Hope of Ghirapur
This might be the silver bullet we could use for spell based combo decks like Storm and Ad Nauseam.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
I feel underwhelmed by this card in general, but it could be worth the effort in testing it.
Kari Zev's Expertise
Threated Effects have been mediocre in the past, but it could be situationally good, and we get to cast a free spell. So seems like a potentially serviceable card.
Pia's Revolution
It's a "build around me" card, I'll test a couple brews with it.
Treasure Keeper
I hear the Cascade mechanic from Alara is fun, this isn't cascade, but it does give us some value if and when it dies the 4CMC cost might be a little too high for it though.
Walking Ballista
I'm not sure it's a better pyrite spellbomb since this is much worse early game draw, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
Wrangle
2CMC Threaten, this could be very useful in a lot of ways. Not only am I going to test this in modern. But, I'm for sure paying it in standard.
Excited to hear about your results!
While it's a cool build it contributes nothing to this primer and you better off looking in another thread.
Skred and especially Koth are the heart of this deck, without either it's gonna be a hard sell here. In principal they're both attempting to survive the first 3 turns through creature disruption while presenting a large threat, but I'm thinking for this thread it's probably a bridge too far...
Been to a few small tourneys, and I did alright. 3-2 on Friday, and an abyssmal 1-3 on Saturday. Would've been 2-2, but my opponent top decked Scapeshift at the last possible secomd (they were fantastic games though!). Batterskull has earned its spot, but I'm missing having a second Chandra. I might cut my Roasts for more flexibility. Thoughts?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/663335-hammers-slammer-mono-red-prison-the-sideboard-deck?page=6#c131
I've been on 1 Chandra for a while and not really missing the 2nd one at all.
Exactly where I am at. Infect and Dredge got worse, this is true. The hidden price of this is that they will see less play. Now whatever becomes the next big decks, along with Fatal Push, which kills our Koth mountains, is honestly terrifying. I'm debating how playable this deck is now. In other words, we have less good matchups now. We have to reverse-metagame this ban list update and see where we stand that way.
We do have blood moon and molten rains, but we can't win fast enough. They usually just drop an O-stone or wurmcoil and we can't do anything from that point.
As for Fatal Push.. it's just another removal, still 1:1 trade. Nothing to worry about. Planar Bridge is a bit more to talk about, because that got sick potential in tron. Just remember how good Eye of Ugin was in that deck, this is better (althought it can't be fetched with Map).
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes