Hmmm seems slow. Do we really need the basic to slam our five drops? We usually can cook off at four, and the card draw isn't really all that important at the mana cost. Plus, it's another four drop, and on top of Koth, Chandra, and her parents, that slot is more than filled.
I'm beginning to have issues with my list. I just can't seem to win anymore. My hands are clunky, my opponents always seem to be running way better than me, and I'm honestly questioning my skill as a player. Here's my list, perhaps I've made a deck building error.
what are you usually losing to, besides the easy answer of "everything"? how has chandra performed for you? is playing so much removal necessary for your meta? have you thought about lowering your curve by cutting a stormbreath dragon? maybe play more scrying sheets for consistency? how have the pieces in your sideboard performed with respect to the matchups you bring them in against? i'd personally like to know the answer, but at the very least ask yourself these and see if you can't come up with a list of actual problems you've been having. if it's nothing like that, then i know what you mean- lately i've been having starting hands with either 1 or 5 lands, no in between. feels like i'm cursed, and that does make it hard to analyze gameplay decisions. if possible though, put it up on the chalkboard.
Hmmm seems slow. Do we really need the basic to slam our five drops? We usually can cook off at four, and the card draw isn't really all that important at the mana cost. Plus, it's another four drop, and on top of Koth, Chandra, and her parents, that slot is more than filled.
I'm beginning to have issues with my list. I just can't seem to win anymore. My hands are clunky, my opponents always seem to be running way better than me, and I'm honestly questioning my skill as a player. Here's my list, perhaps I've made a deck building error.
I find that Hangarback Walkers and Collective Defiance help to make games go less "clunky" by giving you things to cast at anypoint in the game as well as options to respond to you opponent. I'm not sure yet whether 1 or 2 chandras are correct, but I tend to run 2 because I have more spells than usual that can take advantage of the extra mana. Here's my current list, maybe try out some parts of it as you see fit?
Just a cherry-picked example, I was playing against Goyro's earlier today. He was at 10 from DD and self-inflicted with 4 lands, and I have a a Pia and co in-play with a cage slowing him down along with a Defiance, Skred and a few pieces of garbage in hand. So on my turn I'm able to Defiance dealing three and pitching my hand in order drawing into a Bolt for lethal after combat. Possibly won me the game because he was sitting on a Breach and Grissel to try and go off.
what are you usually losing to, besides the easy answer of "everything"? how has chandra performed for you? is playing so much removal necessary for your meta? have you thought about lowering your curve by cutting a stormbreath dragon? maybe play more scrying sheets for consistency? how have the pieces in your sideboard performed with respect to the matchups you bring them in against? i'd personally like to know the answer, but at the very least ask yourself these and see if you can't come up with a list of actual problems you've been having. if it's nothing like that, then i know what you mean- lately i've been having starting hands with either 1 or 5 lands, no in between. feels like i'm cursed, and that does make it hard to analyze gameplay decisions. if possible though, put it up on the chalkboard.
Honestly, my meta is so diverse it is hard to say what exactly I'm losing to. Affinity comes to mind, but that's only one or two players, or not even every event. The removal has been great -- gotta have Roasts as a cheap way to deal with early Goyfs -- and I don't think that is the problem. Chandra has been great, and wins matchups by herself. My sideboard feels fine, and all of the cards have done their jobs. I might try a Batterskull or a Goblin Dark-Dwellers (been thinking about that card a lot lately).
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roasts are good against things like tasigur and big eldrazi, but for goyfs (and especially affinity) you can just pop a relic and then bolt them, that's not too hard. i've found roast to be a little too slow, unless you really do find yourself consistently losing to Big Harmogoyfs. to be more proactive against them too, boros reckoner is always awesome. trades with nearly every creature, including a massive tarmogoyf. first strike can also provide combat tricks against things like wurmcoils and what-not. against affinity all i can say is anger is king. for your sideboard- have you found the pyrite spellbombs to be useful? is there a lot of burrenton forge tenders, kor firewalkers, etched champions, or master of waves in your meta? and if so, are P&K's thopters not enough to handle them (not applicable to forge tender)? is there enough infect in your area to justify the sudden shocks, and if so have they really turned the tide? is there so much burn or zoo that 3 dragon's claws are necessary? have you found the grafdigger's cages to pull their weight when you also have mainboard relics? these are genuine questions, i realize they might come off snippy, but if you can justify all of these then i really honestly don't know what to tell you about losing haha!
Hmmm seems slow. Do we really need the basic to slam our five drops? We usually can cook off at four, and the card draw isn't really all that important at the mana cost. Plus, it's another four drop, and on top of Koth, Chandra, and her parents, that slot is more than filled.
I'm beginning to have issues with my list. I just can't seem to win anymore. My hands are clunky, my opponents always seem to be running way better than me, and I'm honestly questioning my skill as a player. Here's my list, perhaps I've made a deck building error.
Is the issue mana? I had those issues and I honestly solved it by going up to 23 lands and cutting Chandra down to a 1 of. Also what are the grafdigger's cages for? We already have a decent matchup vs dredge with the mainboard Relic's and Angers.
And, I don;t think you want a 3rd Scourge. I'm not even playing the card anymore myself. This is my current list.
As to the Solemn debate, it's either Solemn or Pia and Kiran Nalaar as Solemn was really used in that slot back in the day as the value creature for the GBx/Control matchup.
Mana has been an issue but when I tried 23 I felt flooded all the time. I'll try it again, along with a BSkull. Cage was for decks that searched things out, not necessarily grave hate, but I'm cutting it now given that is a SUPER niche role.
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Well, went 2-1 today, losing a close game one against Dredge and the getting land screwed game 2, losing the match. Round 2 was against Naya Burn, which I got in three games. Nothing too special here. Round 3 was against the Saffron Olive UR Metallurgic Summonings deck, and I got that in 3 games as well. I made a few small changes to my list. I cut a Stormbreath for another land and cut a Chandra for a BSkull. Batterskull was only a win-more in the single game I got to cast it, but I'll keep testing it. Overall, very please with where I'm at, but I learned I need thr Graffdigger's Cages against Dredge. You can never have too much hate against Dredge.
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I'm dying to incorporate ricochet trap into the adonis list, would that work? What 2 cards would you cut from the SB to pull that off? From what I remember his SB was 2 pyrite, 3 molten rain, 2 sudden shock, 1 shattering spree, 1 vandalblast, 1 anger and 2 stormbreaths. Also wanted to ask, how does his list make do without rabblemaster? Based on the discussions here it seems like rabble is very important in applying pressure to decks that happen to be our bad matchups.
Rabblemaster is still being tested and discussed, definitely not a staple at this point. cksboy described it perfectly in page 53 as it being extra must-answer threats to pull in if needed be, not something to rely upon to win a game. It has been said that it's our only chance to win againt Ad Naus for example, but we can't slam 4 Rabbles in sb and feel safe. Not only would the sideboard become comprimised, but the machup would also still be horrendous. So in that regard it's not important.
I'd say run 0-2 based upon how much threats you run main, and it can be Rabbles, Stormbreaths (like Adonis), Figure of Destiny, or whatever other terrifying threat you can come up with that can soak removal or win the game if not.
I'm dying to incorporate ricochet trap into the adonis list, would that work? What 2 cards would you cut from the SB to pull that off? From what I remember his SB was 2 pyrite, 3 molten rain, 2 sudden shock, 1 shattering spree, 1 vandalblast, 1 anger and 2 stormbreaths. Also wanted to ask, how does his list make do without rabblemaster? Based on the discussions here it seems like rabble is very important in applying pressure to decks that happen to be our bad matchups.
What exactly are you wanting the Trap for? If there's a majority of Blue decks in your meta just mainboard the Stormbreaths and put the traps in there.
I'm dying to incorporate ricochet trap into the adonis list, would that work? What 2 cards would you cut from the SB to pull that off? From what I remember his SB was 2 pyrite, 3 molten rain, 2 sudden shock, 1 shattering spree, 1 vandalblast, 1 anger and 2 stormbreaths. Also wanted to ask, how does his list make do without rabblemaster? Based on the discussions here it seems like rabble is very important in applying pressure to decks that happen to be our bad matchups.
What exactly are you wanting the Trap for? If there's a majority of Blue decks in your meta just mainboard the Stormbreaths and put the traps in there.
In that case I wouldn't bother with trap. Sure it redirects a counter spell, but Reverberate is the better card in that kind of matchup as it has more practical uses. If your going to sideboard specifically for U-Tron more artifact destruction is just plain better. All their game winning threats besides Ugin, The Spirit Dragon is an artifact. The best card to play vs U-Tron is Smash to Smithereens along side Shattering Spree as it deals damage to help us apply pressure and destroys Platinum Angel, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Chalice of the Void, [Oblivion Stone[/card], and Ect.
That and just be more Threat Dense so board in creatures like Goblin Rabblemaster, your Stormbreath Dragons and such since most U-Tron lists only really run something like 7-8 counterspells in their full 75. Eventually you'll get a threat on the table.
That and while Blood Moon won't win you the game, it goes a long way in helping you keep up with any mana acceleration they might have.
In that case I wouldn't bother with trap. Sure it redirects a counter spell, but Reverberate is the better card in that kind of matchup as it has more practical uses. If your going to sideboard specifically for U-Tron more artifact destruction is just plain better. All their game winning threats besides Ugin, The Spirit Dragon is an artifact. The best card to play vs U-Tron is Smash to Smithereens along side Shattering Spree as it deals damage to help us apply pressure and destroys Platinum Angel, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Chalice of the Void, [Oblivion Stone[/card], and Ect.
That and just be more Threat Dense so board in creatures like Goblin Rabblemaster, your Stormbreath Dragons and such since most U-Tron lists only really run something like 7-8 counterspells in their full 75. Eventually you'll get a threat on the table.
That and while Blood Moon won't win you the game, it goes a long way in helping you keep up with any mana acceleration they might have.
Noted, thanks!! I actually had a misconception that U-tron has tons of counters. With only 7-8, I guess you can bulldog a threat or 2 into the board without having to lean on trap.
I play both decks (and i think so does cksboy15(I SEE YOU LURKING IN THERE SOMETIMES))and I think U-tron is actually one of Skred's worst match ups. I think I'm 1 win 10 losses against U-tron. We simply can't close out the game quickly enough. Blood Moon is nice, but it usually just gets bounced at the end of turn before dropping a big threat that we usually can't come back from. Bring in Rabblemasters, land destruction, and artifact hate. Keep bolts because they offer reach, and ditch the sweepers and Skreds. Koth is actually an MVP in this matchup because they can't repeal him before we can animate a land, and generally have a hard time dealing with him if he resolves. Chalice on 4 makes our deck cry, but luckily very few people do it against us.
You can try to oversideboard for them, but I'm not even sure how you would do that. Rabblemaster is good, but susceptible to dismember and Spatial Contortion, and any of their counterspells.
I play both decks (and i think so does cksboy15(I SEE YOU LURKING IN THERE SOMETIMES))and I think U-tron is actually one of Skred's worst match ups. I think I'm 1 win 10 losses against U-tron. We simply can't close out the game quickly enough. Blood Moon is nice, but it usually just gets bounced at the end of turn before dropping a big threat that we usually can't come back from. Bring in Rabblemasters, land destruction, and artifact hate. Keep bolts because they offer reach, and ditch the sweepers and Skreds. Koth is actually an MVP in this matchup because they can't repeal him before we can animate a land, and generally have a hard time dealing with him if he resolves. Chalice on 4 makes our deck cry, but luckily very few people do it against us.
You can try to oversideboard for them, but I'm not even sure how you would do that. Rabblemaster is good, but susceptible to dismember and Spatial Contortion, and any of their counterspells.
1-11 is such a bad matchup. =( so overall i should just hope I don'r run into U-tron?
As far as I'm concerned not a lot of people run Hangarback Walker these days, but I'm amongst those who dig it. So with fellow fans of XX dudes, how do we like the newly spoiled one?: http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/walkingballista.html
It's not growing as fast as Hangarback and doesn't provide blockers when it dies, but the pinging seems plenty sweet given that a lot of creatures in modern is x/1.
I think it is rather bad (much worse than Hangarback) and without some kind of "Proliferate" type tricks to grow it it s very slow and clunky.
It's got its benefits. It may be a strict upgrade for Pyrite spellbomb and not hangarbacks.
Colorless, instant source of damage to creatures or players. Real nice against infect, delver flips, early mana dorks.
Mana sink late game to pump its P/T. Synergies with all our planeswalkers, just like Stormbreath.
I think it's worth a shot
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I'm beginning to have issues with my list. I just can't seem to win anymore. My hands are clunky, my opponents always seem to be running way better than me, and I'm honestly questioning my skill as a player. Here's my list, perhaps I've made a deck building error.
3x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Skred
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Roast
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Volcanic Fallout (debating cutting for a third scourge)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Koth of the Hammer
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Mind Stone
2x Scrying Sheets
20x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Sudden Shock
2x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Shatrering Spree
2x Molten Rain
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
2x Graffdigger's Cage
3x Dragon's Claw
Perhaps I'm sideboarding wrong? I really don't know. Someone please help!
I find that Hangarback Walkers and Collective Defiance help to make games go less "clunky" by giving you things to cast at anypoint in the game as well as options to respond to you opponent. I'm not sure yet whether 1 or 2 chandras are correct, but I tend to run 2 because I have more spells than usual that can take advantage of the extra mana. Here's my current list, maybe try out some parts of it as you see fit?
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Skred
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Earthquake
1x Collective Defiance
Utility
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Mind Stone
3x Blood Moon
3x Hangarback Walker
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Batterskull
Planeswalkers
4x Koth of the Hammer
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Land
20x Snow-covered Mountain
2x Scrying Sheets
4x Molten Rain
3x Dragon's Claw
2x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Blood Moon
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Grafdigger's Cage
Just a cherry-picked example, I was playing against Goyro's earlier today. He was at 10 from DD and self-inflicted with 4 lands, and I have a a Pia and co in-play with a cage slowing him down along with a Defiance, Skred and a few pieces of garbage in hand. So on my turn I'm able to Defiance dealing three and pitching my hand in order drawing into a Bolt for lethal after combat. Possibly won me the game because he was sitting on a Breach and Grissel to try and go off.
Is the issue mana? I had those issues and I honestly solved it by going up to 23 lands and cutting Chandra down to a 1 of. Also what are the grafdigger's cages for? We already have a decent matchup vs dredge with the mainboard Relic's and Angers.
And, I don;t think you want a 3rd Scourge. I'm not even playing the card anymore myself. This is my current list.
1x Batterskull
4x Blood Moon
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Commune with Lava
4x Koth of the Hammer
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Mind Stone
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Relic of Progenitus
3x Scrying Sheets
4x Skred
20x Snow-Covered Mountain
3x Stormbreath Dragon
3x Dragon's Claw
3x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Molten Rain
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
2x Shattering Spree
2x Sudden Shock
As to the Solemn debate, it's either Solemn or Pia and Kiran Nalaar as Solemn was really used in that slot back in the day as the value creature for the GBx/Control matchup.
I'd say run 0-2 based upon how much threats you run main, and it can be Rabbles, Stormbreaths (like Adonis), Figure of Destiny, or whatever other terrifying threat you can come up with that can soak removal or win the game if not.
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes
What exactly are you wanting the Trap for? If there's a majority of Blue decks in your meta just mainboard the Stormbreaths and put the traps in there.
Just a U-Tron actually.
That and just be more Threat Dense so board in creatures like Goblin Rabblemaster, your Stormbreath Dragons and such since most U-Tron lists only really run something like 7-8 counterspells in their full 75. Eventually you'll get a threat on the table.
That and while Blood Moon won't win you the game, it goes a long way in helping you keep up with any mana acceleration they might have.
Noted, thanks!! I actually had a misconception that U-tron has tons of counters. With only 7-8, I guess you can bulldog a threat or 2 into the board without having to lean on trap.
You can try to oversideboard for them, but I'm not even sure how you would do that. Rabblemaster is good, but susceptible to dismember and Spatial Contortion, and any of their counterspells.
1-11 is such a bad matchup. =( so overall i should just hope I don'r run into U-tron?
http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/walkingballista.html
It's not growing as fast as Hangarback and doesn't provide blockers when it dies, but the pinging seems plenty sweet given that a lot of creatures in modern is x/1.
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes
It's got its benefits. It may be a strict upgrade for Pyrite spellbomb and not hangarbacks.
Colorless, instant source of damage to creatures or players. Real nice against infect, delver flips, early mana dorks.
Mana sink late game to pump its P/T. Synergies with all our planeswalkers, just like Stormbreath.
I think it's worth a shot