Going back to the Merfolk matchup, scratch Pithing needle. A better card is Ratchet bomb. It's worse than EE as a topdeck, but I think it's actually better in the opening hand. Merfolk doesn't put enough pressure early on such that we need to crack EE as fast as possible. The reason I think Ratchet bomb is better than EE early for merfolk is because we can set it at 2 (usually active by Turn 4) and then keep it on there without having to hold up mana. This is huge because it severely stunts their development without hurting ours (unlike having to hold up mana for EE). Does the merfolk player commit more to the board or do they hold back? By asking them this question, we're allowed the tempo for our fatties to come down and do what they do.
The problem I have with Ratchet bomb is that it's pretty narrow for the fish matchup, where everything is at 2. It's definitely slower than EE (usually a whole turn slower) but is more mana efficient in the long run. What else would you think about it in? It's also good against elves on 1. Perhaps Abzan Coco on 1? Is it too slow for Infect / Death's shadow / UR Prowess? Or what about the dreaded Blood moon decks (castable even under a blood moon, and can also get rid of their higher CMC threats like a Koth?)?
Worship and EE are the best cards against Merfolk - I think you have to accept that this is a rough match-up. Merfolk is very good against ramp and midrange decks (esp those light on removal like Eldrazi). I play both decks - if you can turn off Islandwalk (EE Spreading Sea's, NEVER play your own island) and block there stuff and/or out aggro them you will be winning - also they usually only have 2x Vapor Snag - so often they won't have an answer to Worship (unless they counter it).
But talisman also provide u and w that a waste doesn't. Deck playing blood moon also playing bolt and they kill hierarch. Talisman is a non boltable dork, that you can cast on blood moon (need no color) that permit you to cast all yours threats
The thing is that 3 EE and 1 worship is only 4 cards. Given that you almost always lose without these, you would only have like a 40% chance of having them in your opener postboard. I've added 2 ratchet bombs, giving me 6 hosers, and feel like it's the right amount. It's also given me more game against other go wide decks, and is a better out to blood moon than EE. The fact that you don't have to hold up mana for it is actually quite relevant. It's better in the first few turns for this reason, but obviously a worse topdeck.
I will add that merfolk is about 15% of my local meta. I wouldn't advise it otherwise.
I've tested Ghostly prison vs fish and don't like it. It just stalls the board, like Worship, but they still have inevitability by getting land drops to pay for prison. They can just swing through with an unblockable 5+/5+ while we can barely even attack into them if they're allowed to develop their board. Once a Master of Waves resolves, even displacer/drowner is likely too slow to be able to tap their entire board. At least with Worship they only have one out (Vapor snag), and we have the time to chip away with an exalted skyspawner or find EE/ratchet bomb.
EE and Ratchet bomb are way better than either Worship or Ghostly prison because we can actually develop a better board. Once we blow it up, we can actually swing through for lethal in the next few turns.
Path and dismember alone are insufficient for the matchup. Whenever possible, you need to save the Path/Dismember for the Master of Waves, which otherwise uses up an entire EE on 0 to answer effectively. Unless the rest of your hand curves out with something good like T2 TKS or T3 drowner, I wouldn't keep a hand with only Path/dismember and no EE/Ratchet bomb.
Talisman is also 2 cmc and can be really clunky when trying to ramp and terrible when trying to use EE on x=2 - the only reason ppl play talisman is because of Blood Moon.
Discussion on this deck seems to be slowing down and there aren't many new lists popping up. Worrying sign that we're slipping to Tier 2? I think it's mostly a reflection of the rise of Blood moon decks and also the resilience and popularity of Dredge.
Anyway, I want to bring up another discussion topic - how do you feel about Chalice in the board as a 1- or 2-of instead of 4-of? I don't understand the philosophy why Chalice has to be a full 4. I totally get that philosophy in normal deckbuilding with Chalice, for example in Eldrazi Tron. However, I don't think it makes sense to have it as a mandatory 4-of for us. If we do use Chalice, it's inevitable we will get some splash damage on our Paths and Stirrings. However, we're only siding them in in games were it pretty much ends the game by itself EVEN at the cost of shutting off paths. Resolving Chalice should usually give us enough time to find a Skyspawner or Displacer against Infect AND the mana to support it, after which we won't really need Path. Resolving two Chalices on X=1 and X=2 against burn locks them out - we don't need Path or Stirrings after. Chalice also has creative uses outside of the most obvious cases too. Chalice on 0 is a great play against Valakut Breach, a weak matchup. Chalice on 1 works against Ad Nauseam. However, every Chalice AFTER these draws is dead. 4 Chalices also eats way too much sideboard space. I think the ideal number is 2. That gives you about a 20% chance of having one in your opener, which is low enough that you can plan to get all of your important 1-cmc spells out of the way first before playing it to lock the game out. In addition, in most cases 2 Chalices is exactly the number needed to lock a game out (X=1 and X=2).
Discussion on this deck seems to be slowing down and there aren't many new lists popping up. Worrying sign that we're slipping to Tier 2? I think it's mostly a reflection of the rise of Blood moon decks and also the resilience and popularity of Dredge.
Anyway, I want to bring up another discussion topic - how do you feel about Chalice in the board as a 1- or 2-of instead of 4-of? I don't understand the philosophy why Chalice has to be a full 4. I totally get that philosophy in normal deckbuilding with Chalice, for example in Eldrazi Tron. However, I don't think it makes sense to have it as a mandatory 4-of for us. If we do use Chalice, it's inevitable we will get some splash damage on our Paths and Stirrings. However, we're only siding them in in games were it pretty much ends the game by itself EVEN at the cost of shutting off paths. Resolving Chalice should usually give us enough time to find a Skyspawner or Displacer against Infect AND the mana to support it, after which we won't really need Path. Resolving two Chalices on X=1 and X=2 against burn locks them out - we don't need Path or Stirrings after. Chalice also has creative uses outside of the most obvious cases too. Chalice on 0 is a great play against Valakut Breach, a weak matchup. Chalice on 1 works against Ad Nauseam. However, every Chalice AFTER these draws is dead. 4 Chalices also eats way too much sideboard space. I think the ideal number is 2. That gives you about a 20% chance of having one in your opener, which is low enough that you can plan to get all of your important 1-cmc spells out of the way first before playing it to lock the game out. In addition, in most cases 2 Chalices is exactly the number needed to lock a game out (X=1 and X=2).
Chalice is required in usually on your opening hand specially against Infect, affinity, Burn etc or really it becomes a burden 4 is usually the way to go.
but they all have artifact removal after sideboard anyways eg Destructive Revelry
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Modern UBRWGHumansUBRWG UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron Legacy WDeath & TaxesW Pauper RGoblinsR EDH UGMerfolk ComboGU Standard UWApproachWU
did mill an 8 rack opp to death b4 using tks+displacer but this is one level up. infinite mana to infinite mill.
I'm pretty sure the deck's plan A is to face rush with fatties to kill (or at least beat down to almost death) before any setting up happens on either side of the field. Also, I'm pretty sure your opponent will be dead or close to it with all those "combo pieces" you mentioned on the board, online unless you intentionally not attack.
did mill an 8 rack opp to death b4 using tks+displacer but this is one level up. infinite mana to infinite mill.
I'm pretty sure the deck's plan A is to face rush with fatties to kill (or at least beat down to almost death) before any setting up happens on either side of the field. Also, I'm pretty sure your opponent will be dead or close to it with all those "combo pieces" you mentioned on the board, online unless you intentionally not attack.
Not intentionally not attack but i notice an uptick on control decks w bridges and white prison around. And since we do have bad matchups against lantern, mono white prisons and even the odd mirror, this could be an out in g2.
Thing is, I'm not bringing in Training Grounds for hard-but-winnable match ups. I'd rather have Stony Silence vs lantern, and I find the 3 EEs deal with white prison decks fairly well. Both those things will do more for your other match ups than a Training Grounds would.
EDIT: Also, decks like lantern will most probably prevent you from setting up that many combo pieces at any point in time unless you get very VERY lucky.
Thing is, I'm not bringing in Training Grounds for hard-but-winnable match ups. I'd rather have Stony Silence vs lantern, and I find the 3 EEs deal with white prison decks fairly well. Both those things will do more for your other match ups than a Training Grounds would.
EDIT: Also, decks like lantern will most probably prevent you from setting up that many combo pieces at any point in time unless you get very VERY lucky.
when i encountered mono white prisons, my 2 EEs were able to take care of their 2-3cmc stuff but anything with a higher cmc was outta reach, especially when they have shroud. but anyway, point taken. just trying to see if we can improve the dl.
I've been on that 22-land, 2 talisman, 4 dork train for a bit now. Seems fine. Most of the successful lists recently have been of that set up. Also bec sun and moon is a thing at our lgs, and the talismans are godly when you don't draw the EEs to blow up their moons.
Hey everyone, I saw this list Harrison Stein 1st Place at StarCityGames.com Invitational Qualifier on 12/23/2016. What do you think of it? Mainly Duskwatch and no Mattereshapers? Also Endbringer seems pretty good.
I've been on that 22-land, 2 talisman, 4 dork train for a bit now. Seems fine. Most of the successful lists recently have been of that set up. Also bec sun and moon is a thing at our lgs, and the talismans are godly when you don't draw the EEs to blow up their moons.
I also play 22 lands, 2 rock and 4 dorks. It's the best configuration for this deck. You can beat blood moon deck, play TKS on turn 3 all game, fetch talisman with stirring when you need it.
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4x Chalice of the Void - usually set x=1 - it's also effective on X=0 in some situations..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Worship and EE are the best cards against Merfolk - I think you have to accept that this is a rough match-up. Merfolk is very good against ramp and midrange decks (esp those light on removal like Eldrazi). I play both decks - if you can turn off Islandwalk (EE Spreading Sea's, NEVER play your own island) and block there stuff and/or out aggro them you will be winning - also they usually only have 2x Vapor Snag - so often they won't have an answer to Worship (unless they counter it).
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I will add that merfolk is about 15% of my local meta. I wouldn't advise it otherwise.
It is also decent against Infect and good against Dredge.
EE and Ratchet bomb are way better than either Worship or Ghostly prison because we can actually develop a better board. Once we blow it up, we can actually swing through for lethal in the next few turns.
Path and dismember alone are insufficient for the matchup. Whenever possible, you need to save the Path/Dismember for the Master of Waves, which otherwise uses up an entire EE on 0 to answer effectively. Unless the rest of your hand curves out with something good like T2 TKS or T3 drowner, I wouldn't keep a hand with only Path/dismember and no EE/Ratchet bomb.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Anyway, I want to bring up another discussion topic - how do you feel about Chalice in the board as a 1- or 2-of instead of 4-of? I don't understand the philosophy why Chalice has to be a full 4. I totally get that philosophy in normal deckbuilding with Chalice, for example in Eldrazi Tron. However, I don't think it makes sense to have it as a mandatory 4-of for us. If we do use Chalice, it's inevitable we will get some splash damage on our Paths and Stirrings. However, we're only siding them in in games were it pretty much ends the game by itself EVEN at the cost of shutting off paths. Resolving Chalice should usually give us enough time to find a Skyspawner or Displacer against Infect AND the mana to support it, after which we won't really need Path. Resolving two Chalices on X=1 and X=2 against burn locks them out - we don't need Path or Stirrings after. Chalice also has creative uses outside of the most obvious cases too. Chalice on 0 is a great play against Valakut Breach, a weak matchup. Chalice on 1 works against Ad Nauseam. However, every Chalice AFTER these draws is dead. 4 Chalices also eats way too much sideboard space. I think the ideal number is 2. That gives you about a 20% chance of having one in your opener, which is low enough that you can plan to get all of your important 1-cmc spells out of the way first before playing it to lock the game out. In addition, in most cases 2 Chalices is exactly the number needed to lock a game out (X=1 and X=2).
The Bant eldrazi doing well currently are the ben fredman version of the deck with the talismans
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/530585#online example
Chalice is required in usually on your opening hand specially against Infect, affinity, Burn etc or really it becomes a burden 4 is usually the way to go.
but they all have artifact removal after sideboard anyways eg Destructive Revelry
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
There are only so many things you can change for it to remain optimal...
did mill an 8 rack opp to death b4 using tks+displacer but this is one level up. infinite mana to infinite mill.
I'm pretty sure the deck's plan A is to face rush with fatties to kill (or at least beat down to almost death) before any setting up happens on either side of the field. Also, I'm pretty sure your opponent will be dead or close to it with all those "combo pieces" you mentioned on the board, online unless you intentionally not attack.
Not intentionally not attack but i notice an uptick on control decks w bridges and white prison around. And since we do have bad matchups against lantern, mono white prisons and even the odd mirror, this could be an out in g2.
EDIT: Also, decks like lantern will most probably prevent you from setting up that many combo pieces at any point in time unless you get very VERY lucky.
when i encountered mono white prisons, my 2 EEs were able to take care of their 2-3cmc stuff but anything with a higher cmc was outta reach, especially when they have shroud. but anyway, point taken. just trying to see if we can improve the dl.
At the moment, I'm running 23 lands and five mana dorks. Lately I've had issues with flooding. Has anyone had success going to 22 lands?
So far the only lists I've seen that go to 22 also run Talismans. I'm wondering if it's too dicey to go that low without them.
Thoughts?
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
2 Spellskite
3 Drowner of Hope
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 Endbringer
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Lands
1 Forest
1 Wastes
1 Breeding Pool
3 Brushland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
3 Yavimaya Coast
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Path to Exile
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 World Breaker
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I also play 22 lands, 2 rock and 4 dorks. It's the best configuration for this deck. You can beat blood moon deck, play TKS on turn 3 all game, fetch talisman with stirring when you need it.