I am not understanding Brutality. Is it bascaly just more TS?
More like bad Duress + Disfigure + bad Lightning Helix all in one card. The downsides are outweighed heavily by the utility it provides. The only matchup that I know of where it is completely dead is Tron which sucks to begin with so not much loss there.
I am not understanding Brutality. Is it bascaly just more TS?
All three modes are sometimes useful and sometimes not.
Two-mana discard is not great. Sorcery-speed -2/-2 is pretty bad. -2 to your opponents life total is not good.
But discard doesn't have to be done on turn-one to be effective and there are plenty of 1 and 2 toughness creatures that need to be removed. And sometimes a little life here or there can make a difference.
I'm still not sure there's room for it in my deck. I played it in a Standard Madness deck and I didn't really like it there; I doubt I'll like it any better in a Modern deck that doesn't use the graveyard at all except for flashback of one play-set of cards.
$54?! What was the attendance and entry? That's crazy.
It's a weekly $10 entry competitive event, you have to go 3-1 or better to get anything. 3-1 gets 9pks or $27 credit, 3-0-1 gets 13pks or $39 credit, and 4-0 gets 18pks or $54 credit. Usual attendance is 15-20.
Win a box tournaments are common in Arizona. About the same entry cost
Yeah I'm in NJ just outside Philadelphia. The shop I play at is the physical location for CardTitan, the guys who run the US Eternal Weekend events every year so it's a pretty big shop.
@rick90:
Seems fine, I'd say swap the 3rd Godless Shrine for a 4th Concealed Courtyard and dump Isolated Chapel entirely for either another fetchland or Windbrisk Heights. If there's a lot of Affinity that is good for you, we crush them easily.
I personally like Smother because unlike GftT it can hit Inkmoth Nexus. But either are solid options. I run 2 Collective Brutality and definitely am happy with that, they're very relevant in most matchups and at worst make a perfectly acceptable burn spell LOL. They also give you an out against Worship which is rarely relevant but definitely useful.
You're right about the Nexus target, I think that can be a meta-spot! I'll try 2 of them as well as blessed alliance that looks very usefull in all its modes!
BTW I am reading a lot of comments online about the fact that it would be better not to play this deck in the current meta, any opinions from who is actually playing it?
Personally, I don't think either Collective Brutality or Blessed Alliance are worth playing unless you know your local meta very well and know what to expect. Paying 2-mana for a card that has a fairly selective 1-for-1 tradeoff is not my cup of tea.
Right now, it is not ideal to play BW tokens. Sad but that's the reality. No midrange or control deck is well positioned right now. This is because the meta is being geared towards non-interactive combo deck or linear aggro decks. Combo decks are now much more popular after the ban of Splinter Twin (which kept them in check) and these are easily the worst match-ups for midrange decks like BW Tokens. And to keep decks like Tron and RG Breach in check, linear aggro decks have become popular.
While midrange and control decks can do well against linear aggro decks like Affinity and Infect, their removal spells do not align well against Eldrazi and Dredge. If you want to be a serious competitive player, your sideboard should have some plans against these two decks.
Another fundamental problem with BW Tokens is that like all midrange decks in Modern, it needs to be more controlling. As in, you need to run way more removal and disruption spells. Modern is a heavy creature-based format. Look at decks like Jund they run like 15 removals (17 if you count Kolaghan's Command)while Tokens run 6-7 removals. While our creatures fly and we don't need to remove blockers as much, the problem isn't our offense but our defense. Jund also run things like Goyf and Ooze that block the ground for more resilience. It's the biggest reason for why I advocate a red splash. We go blue if we want more card advantage and we go green if we want more speed, but neither leads to something better than what already exists.
To clarify the replacement effect: If the creature would be exiled, or Anger of the God's type effect where destroyed is replaced with exile, then the creature does not go to the graveyard (unless my Magic rules knowledge is totally wrong). Tokens are creatures and therefore are subject to being destroyed, exiled, reshuffled, etc. Unlike other creatures though, they cease to exist after the zone change is applied.
To clarify the replacement effect: If the creature would be exiled, or Anger of the God's type effect where destroyed is replaced with exile, then the creature does not go to the graveyard (unless my Magic rules knowledge is totally wrong). Tokens are creatures and therefore are subject to being destroyed, exiled, reshuffled, etc. Unlike other creatures though, they cease to exist after the zone change is applied.
Thanks for catching that, I forgot the newer stuff (RiP, Anger etc) have the correct wording to work on tokens. I've only had that type of stuff come up in legacy with older cards like Leyline of the Void and such which don't affect tokens as they specifically say "Card(s)".
I think your description was fine, I was just trying to say it in a different way so that no one got caught off guard if an opponent said something that wasn't right.
Any advices for graveyard hate? Yesterday I got crushed by Living End and my post sideboard strategy was discard + surgical on cascade spells/living end...then I realized that maybe Rest In peace is way better instead of surgical extraction even if Living End (and I think Dredge as well) would side in enchantment hate!
Yeah you'll want hard answers to graveyards for both those decks. Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitis, Nihil Spellbomb, Ravenous Trap, or Tormod's Crypt are gonna be the best options. I'd say RiP and Spellbomb are the best of those. Grafdigger's Cage isn't a good option because it doesn't even work against Living End to start and against Dredge you want to erase their GY not just turn it off for a bit while they look for hate.
I've never seen Promise of Bunrei before and wasn't familiar with this card
Do your tokens even hit the GY? I thought they didn't, therefore never triggering it.
Before it ceases to exist, it does technically hit the graveyard. The problem with Promise of Bunrei is that it's a purely defensive card and here, Timely Reinforcement is superior. Offensively, we already run 8 of the best token generators in the 3-drop slots.
In the grand scheme of things: when you deploy yard hate, the chances that it hurts your opponent way more than you are just outrageous. Flashback is minuscule against the benefits of a RiP or other similar effects against the decks you target. Living End and Dredge are basically murdered by the effect. Even if they draw into destruction effects, it sets them back however many turns it takes which can often be enough for us to win.
Does BW Tokens work without bitterblossom? It seems any tokens deck that makes I see do well in large events run the card. Is there a list without bitterblossoms?
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More like bad Duress + Disfigure + bad Lightning Helix all in one card. The downsides are outweighed heavily by the utility it provides. The only matchup that I know of where it is completely dead is Tron which sucks to begin with so not much loss there.
All three modes are sometimes useful and sometimes not.
Two-mana discard is not great. Sorcery-speed -2/-2 is pretty bad. -2 to your opponents life total is not good.
But discard doesn't have to be done on turn-one to be effective and there are plenty of 1 and 2 toughness creatures that need to be removed. And sometimes a little life here or there can make a difference.
I'm still not sure there's room for it in my deck. I played it in a Standard Madness deck and I didn't really like it there; I doubt I'll like it any better in a Modern deck that doesn't use the graveyard at all except for flashback of one play-set of cards.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
It's a weekly $10 entry competitive event, you have to go 3-1 or better to get anything. 3-1 gets 9pks or $27 credit, 3-0-1 gets 13pks or $39 credit, and 4-0 gets 18pks or $54 credit. Usual attendance is 15-20.
Yeah I'm in NJ just outside Philadelphia. The shop I play at is the physical location for CardTitan, the guys who run the US Eternal Weekend events every year so it's a pretty big shop.
There's a link on page 1 in the primer. I'll try to put it in a post later.
Here's the full list. Sorry it's not sorted, TappedOut doesn't do that for export it seems...
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Collective Brutality
4x Concealed Courtyard
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Fetid Heath
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Godless Shrine
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Intangible Virtue
4x Lingering Souls
4x Marsh Flats
1x Murderous Cut
4x Path to Exile
3x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
1x Smother
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4x Spectral Procession
1x Swamp
2x Thoughtseize
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Windbrisk Heights
4x Windswept Heath
1x Zealous Persecution
2x Auriok Champion
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Damping Matrix
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Fragmentize
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
1x Runed Halo
2x Stony Silence
1x Worship
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
@rick90:
Seems fine, I'd say swap the 3rd Godless Shrine for a 4th Concealed Courtyard and dump Isolated Chapel entirely for either another fetchland or Windbrisk Heights. If there's a lot of Affinity that is good for you, we crush them easily.
Personally, I don't think either Collective Brutality or Blessed Alliance are worth playing unless you know your local meta very well and know what to expect. Paying 2-mana for a card that has a fairly selective 1-for-1 tradeoff is not my cup of tea.
Right now, it is not ideal to play BW tokens. Sad but that's the reality. No midrange or control deck is well positioned right now. This is because the meta is being geared towards non-interactive combo deck or linear aggro decks. Combo decks are now much more popular after the ban of Splinter Twin (which kept them in check) and these are easily the worst match-ups for midrange decks like BW Tokens. And to keep decks like Tron and RG Breach in check, linear aggro decks have become popular.
While midrange and control decks can do well against linear aggro decks like Affinity and Infect, their removal spells do not align well against Eldrazi and Dredge. If you want to be a serious competitive player, your sideboard should have some plans against these two decks.
Another fundamental problem with BW Tokens is that like all midrange decks in Modern, it needs to be more controlling. As in, you need to run way more removal and disruption spells. Modern is a heavy creature-based format. Look at decks like Jund they run like 15 removals (17 if you count Kolaghan's Command)while Tokens run 6-7 removals. While our creatures fly and we don't need to remove blockers as much, the problem isn't our offense but our defense. Jund also run things like Goyf and Ooze that block the ground for more resilience. It's the biggest reason for why I advocate a red splash. We go blue if we want more card advantage and we go green if we want more speed, but neither leads to something better than what already exists.
Do your tokens even hit the GY? I thought they didn't, therefore never triggering it.
Tokens actually always hit the yard and then cease to exist even if replacement effects that exile the yard are up (RiP etc).
Thanks for catching that, I forgot the newer stuff (RiP, Anger etc) have the correct wording to work on tokens. I've only had that type of stuff come up in legacy with older cards like Leyline of the Void and such which don't affect tokens as they specifically say "Card(s)".
Yeah you'll want hard answers to graveyards for both those decks. Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitis, Nihil Spellbomb, Ravenous Trap, or Tormod's Crypt are gonna be the best options. I'd say RiP and Spellbomb are the best of those. Grafdigger's Cage isn't a good option because it doesn't even work against Living End to start and against Dredge you want to erase their GY not just turn it off for a bit while they look for hate.
Before it ceases to exist, it does technically hit the graveyard. The problem with Promise of Bunrei is that it's a purely defensive card and here, Timely Reinforcement is superior. Offensively, we already run 8 of the best token generators in the 3-drop slots.