Played in my 8 man 3 round Tuesday modern event - same list as last week.
Game 1 Eldrazi Tron
2-0 Slammed him in Game 2 with 12 power turn 2
Game 2 RG Tron
2-1 3rd game player scooped after i hit him for 14 turn 2
Game 3 Tweaked Version RG Tron (We drew but played for fun)
2-1
Game One i lost on the draw to Natural tron.
Game 2 on his turn two he played two Maps, on my turn three i Ancient Grudged One and Flashbacked for the second... then proceeded to kill him.
Game 3 Had a Great hand to just drop a Hollowed one on t1 and bring back a flamewake turn two. He couldnt hang.
Undefeated again this week!! Man i am loving killing people with this version.
I finally feel like i have a Deck that is really resilient. Id say we can compete with t2 or t1 decks now.
Game two GDS
My deck crapped on me. Held decent hands but i literally drew only lands
Game 2 i Faithless looting on turn one drew two lands. I drew a FL turn two, cast it Drew 2 lands, With my other mana cast a creature, turn three I Burning Inquiry drew three lands, I FL one more time and drew 1 land and an Insolent Neonate, cast him. Next turn draw a land FL from the graveyard drew a land and another insolent neonate., Discard him to draw (sac neonate) and draw a vengevine. I was so upset about this round. It didn't matter what i was playing
Game three Merfolk 1-2
Good games he just had the right stuff at the right time - deck didnt quite go off game three like i needed..I did pretty good but he vapor snagged my hollow one, and my hooting mandrils, and then next turn i draw another hollow one, and he cast a Master of Waves.
So 1-2 overall... That puts me at 8-2-3 (3 ID) over the last three weeks. ive won those ID though so its actually 11-2...i need to do better at bigger events.
I exceeded the 250 matches now in the MTGO Leagues. With 38 in Competitive and 220 in the Friendly it is 187-71 (72.4% win).
I played nearly all matches with these exact 75. I can dream them by now. I find it hard to cut any of these 75. I tried cutting Inquiry, but I guess I also like it more than possible replacements. Also replacing Goblin Lore with Cathartic Reunion would feel like a downgrade. I simply don't know what to try anymore.
My list is very close to yours. I'm running -1 Become Immense -1 Grim Lavamancer +2 Hooting Mandrills. I'd run at lease one Mandrills if I were you. Turn 3 Mandrels, Bushwhacker, bring back Vengevine is an absurd play that happens pretty often.
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, long time no see. I've been busy both with life, and with perfecting my Lantern Game, so I haven't been playing much of this deck. How's everyone success been with it lately? Any new interesting pieces of deck come out to anyone? Or are we still at the kind of stock list?
I see Manfred has decided on a Jund-ish list. Why opt for the colours you landed on?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
These were the pairings I faced: R1 - UR Storm 2-0 (G1 My opponent tried to combo on turn 3 but I was able to kill his Goblin Electromancer with Fiery Temper in response to his ritual so he was unable to finish me, G2 he gets caught by Ravenous Trap) R2 - UW Control with Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry Combo 2-0 (Easy matchup if you are able to put some early pressure) R3 - Mardu aggro (the list with so many trophies from competitive leagues) 2-0 (G1 is grindy and I am able to take it, G2 I am able to go 2x Hollow One + 1 Vengevine on T1 so he conceded on T2) R4 - Vizier Combo 2-1 (Very grindy matchup, I was lucky to have a Grim Lavamancer in my openers and control the board to finish G3 with a Become Immense R5 - Eldrazi Tron 2-0 (Not very difficult matchup, I did the Noose Constrictor + 2 Flamewake Phoenix play in this round) R6 - UR Kiki Moon ID (A friend and we ensured top by ID and went to have lunch) R7 - UR Storm ID (Another friend, I could play without risk but he would be out if I win, so we ID)
I managed to top8 in 2nd position and play first every round since I didn't get to play against the player in 1st position in the top8
QF - Eldrazi Tron 2-1 (Easy round, I was greedy on G2 and kept a no-lander with 2 Street Wraith on the draw but couldn't find the land, G3 got a decent hand and the opponent was unable to do much about it) SF - UR-Kiki Moon 2-0 (My friend from R6, we already discussed the matchup while having lunch and agreed that it was a good matchup for me so I was glad to perform as expected) F - Eldrazi Tron 2-1 (The same guy from R5, he wins game 1 with 2 quick Reality Smasher and I feel under pressure but G2 and G3 the deck delivers and I end up winning with Flameblade Adept + Noose Constrictor discarding my hand for lethal damage.
interesting the only difference between yours and mine is the addition of noose constrictor and the two fiery tempers (and one more grim lavamancer but i run one more phoenix)
I like this and i think im gonna go home and tweak my build to this and try it tonight.
I like 1 Forest in my build, not just for Blood Moon purposes but to keep a healthy life total when facing burn strategies, 1 lander with Forest is bad but I didn't find it to happen that often to worry too much about it.
Noose Constrictor was the MVP of the tournament, sometimes you just play it on turn 2, discard 3 cards and cast a Hollow One bringing 1 or more Vengevine in the process, it is also useful as a defender in the late game and can deal a lot of damage when combined with Flameblade Adept and since it's a two drop makes the deck less vulnerable to Chalice of the Void on 1.
Hi guys, long time modern magician, and this deck has caught my eye as I own most of it. I have done some testing and want your thoughts on a few things.
1. Goblin lore and burning inquiry are bad. REALLY REALLY bad. Awful even. Powerful, but horrendous. Do you guys think that this deck is 1 card away from actually being good? Because lore and inquiry seem to lose more games for you than they win.
2. Some weird keeps and mulligans in this deck. Is that something that gets better in time or is there really that much varience at play here? You keep strong hands with vines, creatures and an enabler and a single thoughtsize ruins you, or you mull a bad spell heavy hand and the library top is stacked with vines and hollow ones.
3. Good lord how do any of you get consistent results?! Deck seems again, to be inherently powerful, but really awful at times. What is the secret?
Hi, I am glad you are trying this deck concept, I hope you like it, here are my answers to your questions:
1-Goblin Lore & Burning Inquiry: I've tried both and I have to say that although both are random and it hurts when you discard Hollow One, Goblin Lore is much better for many reasons and that's why it's the only of the two I am playing:
-It isn't card disadvantage as you draw 1 more than you discard
-Is a great follow-up after a T1 Flameblade Adept
-You are the only one discarding (it sounds cool to mana screw your opponent with Burning Inquiry but you are most likely helping them deploy their Gurmag Angler or combo with their Storm or Dredge deck or it is just irrelevant agains't other decks)
-As a 2-cost it makes the deck more resilient to Chalice of the Void on 1
2-Usually hands with Faithless Looting or Insolent Neonate are good keepers as your deck becomes stronger the more you dig through your library, there are some crazy hands you have to keep for their potential, in the report I made this happened 2 times with different results: R3 on the draw I kept a no-lander containing Street WraithFaithless LootingFaithless LootingHollow OneHollow OneVengevineInsolent Neonate and I found the Mountain to go off but in QF in the same spot I was unable to find it and I lost that game, I believe hands with potentital of T1 attack with Vengevine should not be mulliganed if you can draw at least 2 cards before playing your first land, but that's just my approach.
3-There are many small details on how you play the deck that can definitely give an edge, I usually end up going 4-1 in Competitive Leagues as there is always this 1 round that something doesn't go your way but I don't feel like it's because of the deck, I mean, that happened before with many other decks, sometimes you get mana screwed or flooded or your opponent seems to always have the best counters for your plays, what I mean is that the deck is able to do very unfair things without being too much of a glass-cannon and that's something I love about this deck.
I am testing cathartic reunion and while it's less explosive than goblin lore, chosing what I discard (even though I have to discard 1st) feels so much better than throwing away 3 random cards out of usually 8 or 6. No accidental double hollow ones getting thrown. I do realize that a counterspell is possibly worse there than it is on goblin lore, but if you're discarding 2 'hit' cards: ie vengevines or Flamewakes, then it's actually better and you're fine with it getting countered. Desperate ravings is a card that isn't beneath my interest either.
Cathartic Reunion is not a bad card but in my experience is way worse than Goblin Lore in this deck for these reasons:
1-You have to discard before drawing so if you don't have anything you'd really like in the graveyard, it's not going to shine too much
2-You can't cast it unless you have another 2 cards in hand (and you must discard them no matter what), this is the main reason why I don't think it's good in the deck, you sometimes have a land and draw Goblin Lore, you can cast it and in the worst case scenario you are with something bad as two lands but you might be able to put a Faithless Looting, Vengevine or Flamewake Phoenix in the graveyard while doing so which makes the next turns better overall. If you have a land and draw Cathartic Reunion you mast pass the turn and you will face problem 1 next turn
3-You can get Cathartic Reunion countered by something like Remand and if that happens it's probably GG
I won a game against tron, with the Adept, i delved to become immense, and burning inquiry twice (netting no cards but to pump him 6 more times for lethal (he was at 13 already on turn 3)
That's why i still run the Inquiry. I did side out two Goblin Lores for Cathartic reunion but i only play two in the deck so " the getting stuck" part has less chance of being an issue
Cathartic Reunion is not a bad card but in my experience is way worse than Goblin Lore in this deck for these reasons:
1-You have to discard before drawing so if you don't have anything you'd really like in the graveyard, it's not going to shine too much
2-You can't cast it unless you have another 2 cards in hand (and you must discard them no matter what), this is the main reason why I don't think it's good in the deck, you sometimes have a land and draw Goblin Lore, you can cast it and in the worst case scenario you are with something bad as two lands but you might be able to put a Faithless Looting, Vengevine or Flamewake Phoenix in the graveyard while doing so which makes the next turns better overall. If you have a land and draw Cathartic Reunion you mast pass the turn and you will face problem 1 next turn
3-You can get Cathartic Reunion countered by something like Remand and if that happens it's probably GG
Every point there certainly has merrit, though as I said, there are plenty of ideal scenarios where getting countered is fine because they can't stop you discarding the cards. But point 2 is certainly scary.
I just want a functional reprint of looting without the flashback:(
My current list I am testing with if you're interested
Oh, and there is another huge thing that I somehow missed on my previous post that makes Goblin Lore even better: it enables Hollow One for 0 while Cathartic Reunion alone would not be enough and it would still cost 1
Unfortunately, we seem to play this deck a lot a combo deck. Similar to infect or storm. If they Seize a key piece from our hand on turn 1, it is back breaking.
I just recently started testing Goblin Lore. I would agree it's Superior to Reunion. I haven't tried burning inquiry though and I'm wondering if it would be stronger due to lower Mana cost. I'm often only short one Mana to make a strong play after Lore resolves. But I'm certainly worried about netting a positive yield for the opponent with Inquiry. With delirium, delve, dredge, etc all running rampant in modern, I would say it's likely we would help their cause rather than hurt it.
Game 1 Eldrazi Tron
2-0 Slammed him in Game 2 with 12 power turn 2
Game 2 RG Tron
2-1 3rd game player scooped after i hit him for 14 turn 2
Game 3 Tweaked Version RG Tron (We drew but played for fun)
2-1
Game One i lost on the draw to Natural tron.
Game 2 on his turn two he played two Maps, on my turn three i Ancient Grudged One and Flashbacked for the second... then proceeded to kill him.
Game 3 Had a Great hand to just drop a Hollowed one on t1 and bring back a flamewake turn two. He couldnt hang.
Undefeated again this week!! Man i am loving killing people with this version.
I finally feel like i have a Deck that is really resilient. Id say we can compete with t2 or t1 decks now.
example
Draft My Cube!
Game 1 Storm whooped him on turn 3 both times
2-0
Game two GDS
My deck crapped on me. Held decent hands but i literally drew only lands
Game 2 i Faithless looting on turn one drew two lands. I drew a FL turn two, cast it Drew 2 lands, With my other mana cast a creature, turn three I Burning Inquiry drew three lands, I FL one more time and drew 1 land and an Insolent Neonate, cast him. Next turn draw a land FL from the graveyard drew a land and another insolent neonate., Discard him to draw (sac neonate) and draw a vengevine. I was so upset about this round. It didn't matter what i was playing
Game three Merfolk 1-2
Good games he just had the right stuff at the right time - deck didnt quite go off game three like i needed..I did pretty good but he vapor snagged my hollow one, and my hooting mandrils, and then next turn i draw another hollow one, and he cast a Master of Waves.
So 1-2 overall... That puts me at 8-2-3 (3 ID) over the last three weeks. ive won those ID though so its actually 11-2...i need to do better at bigger events.
My list is very close to yours. I'm running -1 Become Immense -1 Grim Lavamancer +2 Hooting Mandrills. I'd run at lease one Mandrills if I were you. Turn 3 Mandrels, Bushwhacker, bring back Vengevine is an absurd play that happens pretty often.
I see Manfred has decided on a Jund-ish list. Why opt for the colours you landed on?
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Noose Constrictor
2 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Vengevine
4 Hollow One
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Street Wraith
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Lore
2 Fiery Temper
2 Become Immense
Lands
1 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Dismember
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Blood Moon
2 Gnaw to the Bone
I liked Noose Constrictor a lot and it allowed some crazy plays such as Turn 1 Flameblade Adept Turn 2 Noose Constrictor, attack for 1, opponent casts Chalice of the Void for X=1, Turn 3 discard 2 Flamewake Phoenix with Noose Constrictor, pay RR to bring them back and attack for 11
These were the pairings I faced:
R1 - UR Storm 2-0 (G1 My opponent tried to combo on turn 3 but I was able to kill his Goblin Electromancer with Fiery Temper in response to his ritual so he was unable to finish me, G2 he gets caught by Ravenous Trap)
R2 - UW Control with Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry Combo 2-0 (Easy matchup if you are able to put some early pressure)
R3 - Mardu aggro (the list with so many trophies from competitive leagues) 2-0 (G1 is grindy and I am able to take it, G2 I am able to go 2x Hollow One + 1 Vengevine on T1 so he conceded on T2)
R4 - Vizier Combo 2-1 (Very grindy matchup, I was lucky to have a Grim Lavamancer in my openers and control the board to finish G3 with a Become Immense
R5 - Eldrazi Tron 2-0 (Not very difficult matchup, I did the Noose Constrictor + 2 Flamewake Phoenix play in this round)
R6 - UR Kiki Moon ID (A friend and we ensured top by ID and went to have lunch)
R7 - UR Storm ID (Another friend, I could play without risk but he would be out if I win, so we ID)
I managed to top8 in 2nd position and play first every round since I didn't get to play against the player in 1st position in the top8
QF - Eldrazi Tron 2-1 (Easy round, I was greedy on G2 and kept a no-lander with 2 Street Wraith on the draw but couldn't find the land, G3 got a decent hand and the opponent was unable to do much about it)
SF - UR-Kiki Moon 2-0 (My friend from R6, we already discussed the matchup while having lunch and agreed that it was a good matchup for me so I was glad to perform as expected)
F - Eldrazi Tron 2-1 (The same guy from R5, he wins game 1 with 2 quick Reality Smasher and I feel under pressure but G2 and G3 the deck delivers and I end up winning with Flameblade Adept + Noose Constrictor discarding my hand for lethal damage.
I like this and i think im gonna go home and tweak my build to this and try it tonight.
Noose Constrictor was the MVP of the tournament, sometimes you just play it on turn 2, discard 3 cards and cast a Hollow One bringing 1 or more Vengevine in the process, it is also useful as a defender in the late game and can deal a lot of damage when combined with Flameblade Adept and since it's a two drop makes the deck less vulnerable to Chalice of the Void on 1.
1. Goblin lore and burning inquiry are bad. REALLY REALLY bad. Awful even. Powerful, but horrendous. Do you guys think that this deck is 1 card away from actually being good? Because lore and inquiry seem to lose more games for you than they win.
2. Some weird keeps and mulligans in this deck. Is that something that gets better in time or is there really that much varience at play here? You keep strong hands with vines, creatures and an enabler and a single thoughtsize ruins you, or you mull a bad spell heavy hand and the library top is stacked with vines and hollow ones.
3. Good lord how do any of you get consistent results?! Deck seems again, to be inherently powerful, but really awful at times. What is the secret?
1-Goblin Lore & Burning Inquiry: I've tried both and I have to say that although both are random and it hurts when you discard Hollow One, Goblin Lore is much better for many reasons and that's why it's the only of the two I am playing:
-It isn't card disadvantage as you draw 1 more than you discard
-Is a great follow-up after a T1 Flameblade Adept
-You are the only one discarding (it sounds cool to mana screw your opponent with Burning Inquiry but you are most likely helping them deploy their Gurmag Angler or combo with their Storm or Dredge deck or it is just irrelevant agains't other decks)
-As a 2-cost it makes the deck more resilient to Chalice of the Void on 1
2-Usually hands with Faithless Looting or Insolent Neonate are good keepers as your deck becomes stronger the more you dig through your library, there are some crazy hands you have to keep for their potential, in the report I made this happened 2 times with different results: R3 on the draw I kept a no-lander containing Street Wraith Faithless Looting Faithless Looting Hollow One Hollow One Vengevine Insolent Neonate and I found the Mountain to go off but in QF in the same spot I was unable to find it and I lost that game, I believe hands with potentital of T1 attack with Vengevine should not be mulliganed if you can draw at least 2 cards before playing your first land, but that's just my approach.
3-There are many small details on how you play the deck that can definitely give an edge, I usually end up going 4-1 in Competitive Leagues as there is always this 1 round that something doesn't go your way but I don't feel like it's because of the deck, I mean, that happened before with many other decks, sometimes you get mana screwed or flooded or your opponent seems to always have the best counters for your plays, what I mean is that the deck is able to do very unfair things without being too much of a glass-cannon and that's something I love about this deck.
1-You have to discard before drawing so if you don't have anything you'd really like in the graveyard, it's not going to shine too much
2-You can't cast it unless you have another 2 cards in hand (and you must discard them no matter what), this is the main reason why I don't think it's good in the deck, you sometimes have a land and draw Goblin Lore, you can cast it and in the worst case scenario you are with something bad as two lands but you might be able to put a Faithless Looting, Vengevine or Flamewake Phoenix in the graveyard while doing so which makes the next turns better overall. If you have a land and draw Cathartic Reunion you mast pass the turn and you will face problem 1 next turn
3-You can get Cathartic Reunion countered by something like Remand and if that happens it's probably GG
That's why i still run the Inquiry. I did side out two Goblin Lores for Cathartic reunion but i only play two in the deck so " the getting stuck" part has less chance of being an issue
I haven't seen anyone weigh in on this concert. Maybe Manfred since you're running the Shadow version?
I'm trying to find a deck to take to GP Vegas but I wanna start testing now. This Goryo's technique seems weird but synergistic
Draft My Cube!
Every point there certainly has merrit, though as I said, there are plenty of ideal scenarios where getting countered is fine because they can't stop you discarding the cards. But point 2 is certainly scary.
I just want a functional reprint of looting without the flashback:(
My current list I am testing with if you're interested
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-01-18-vengevine/?cache=2018-01-19 15:26:25.742354
I just recently started testing Goblin Lore. I would agree it's Superior to Reunion. I haven't tried burning inquiry though and I'm wondering if it would be stronger due to lower Mana cost. I'm often only short one Mana to make a strong play after Lore resolves. But I'm certainly worried about netting a positive yield for the opponent with Inquiry. With delirium, delve, dredge, etc all running rampant in modern, I would say it's likely we would help their cause rather than hurt it.
Draft My Cube!
Preferably in red, but blue would do