MTG Salvation

Quote from Killer_Manfred »

This forum seems pretty dead as of late and I am not surprised about that when I read some of the things here. Cathartic Reunion is the most broken thing that has happened to Modern in a long while and I will definitely use it as long as it's around. I don't know how many of the old regulars' lists look like atm, but mine almost plays like 'normal' dredge nowadays, meaning I dump my hand by t2 and flood the board. LolTroll is nice if I have it, but only really necessary against hate. I also don't know why I haven't swapped out all my removal for Conflagrates a long time ago; card's just busted.

Speaking of old regulars, hi how you doing.

Unfortunately for me my War Veges have been on the shelf for a while. My meta devolved to the point where I had some people actually mainboarding RiP :\

I've been piloting Lantern Control for the time being but am definitely looking are doing some destructive gardening again. What's your current list looks like?

Quote from Killer_Manfred »

This forum seems pretty dead as of late and I am not surprised about that when I read some of the things here. Cathartic Reunion is the most broken thing that has happened to Modern in a long while and I will definitely use it as long as it's around. I don't know how many of the old regulars' lists look like atm, but mine almost plays like 'normal' dredge nowadays, meaning I dump my hand by t2 and flood the board. LolTroll is nice if I have it, but only really necessary against hate. I also don't know why I haven't swapped out all my removal for Conflagrates a long time ago; card's just busted.

From what I've gathered you're blaming my opinion on the lack of activity in this thread? Sorry but that was my first post in four months on this thread so if there's issues try blaming someone else. I was giving my opinion on the card, I said that personally I'm no going to try it right away, I never liked tormenting voice and I'm not sure I would like this so I'll stay with what I like. I said if other people have success I'll give it a try so by all means prove that I am wrong and show me it's good. I'll gladly play it. Your post seems overly hostile for me simply giving my opinion on a card.

Quote from Killer_Manfred »

What up, Skitza? Long time no see.

This is my current list:

Skitzafreak's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands (20): 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Verdant Catacombs 2 Blood Crypt 2 Overgrown Tomb 1 Stomping Ground 3 Blackcleave Cliffs 2 Copperline Gorge 2 Swamp 1 Forest 1 Ghost Quarter Creatures (32): 4 Vengevine 4 Gravecrawler 4 Bloodghast 4 Prized Amalgam 2 Haunted Dead	4 Insolent Neonate 4 Lotleth Troll 4 Golgari Grave-Troll 2 Stinkweed Imp Others (8): 4 Faithless Looting 3 Conflagrate 1 Life from the Loam	Sideboard: 2 Gnaw to the Bone 2 Spellskite 1 Life from the Loam 2 Abrupt Decay 3 Ancient Grudge 2 Darkblast 2 Thoughtseize 1 Ghost Quarter

I've been wanting to cut the 20th land for a long time and will do so once Kld hits. I'm still unsure whether Cathartic Reunion will be a 4- or 3-of, but I will definitely move the Ghost Quarter to the side, cut a Conflagrate, and probably a Haunted Dead. I might also have to fit in another dredger to make Reunion more reliable.

Are the 2 Catacombs/4 Mire a budget choice? I know I myself would prefer 4 Catacombs.

That also seems like a large number of basic lands, I'm used to running 1-2.

Have you run into any troubles not having a random blue source to cast Amalgams with?

How have 2 Haunted Dead been working out for you? I know when I was looking at putting my list back together, I only really wanted to put one in the deck. It does seem a bit much while you also have 3 Conflagrate in there.

Can this deck run on 18 lands? I'm trying to find room for Cathartic Reunion but the list is just too tight with the whole Vengevine engine.

Quote from DolphinBat »

Can this deck run on 18 lands? I'm trying to find room for Cathartic Reunion but the list is just too tight with the whole Vengevine engine.

i think not, we need to have 2 lands in our opening hands or 1-land with a looting might be a keep. we need to consistently have a land drop up to turn3 in order to properly operate the deck. i'm currently running 20 lands and still encountering 1-land opener

goldfishing with cathartic reunion feels so good!

Thanks!

Yeah I understand. I remember some years ago, I ran 20 lands, casted looting t1 on the draw and was still stuck on 1 land for about 4 turns, losing that game out right.

I'm on mobile, but here's a gist of my list:

3 Blackcleave
2 Copperline
4 Verdant
4 Bloodstained
2 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown
1 Stomping
1 Twilight Mire
1 Swamp
1 Forest

4 Gravecrawler
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Bloodghast
4 Amalgam
4 Stinkweed
4 Grave Troll
4 Vengevine

4 Looting
2 Reunion
1 Conflagrate
1 Life from the Loam

I tried this but found that Reunion definitely needs to be either 3-4, as it's won me many games by just being in my opening hand, at least in testing. The conflagrate is my only answer to maindeck t2 oozes, and sometimes it's not enough. Loam is there for value, but I could see putting it in the sideboard instead.

Oh yeah, sideboard!:

2 Decay
2 Grudge
2 Gnaw
2 Lightning Axe
2 Darkblast
1 Life from the Loam
4 Collective Brutality (Really aggro meta)

@killer_manfred don't worry about it hit wanted to make sure I didn't do anything wrong

About cathartic reunion, do you guys find yourselves drawing three or dredging three (or in what combination do you dredge/draw)?

I think we're jumping to cutting lands way too quick. Change one thing at a time. Often times I sideboard in a ghost quarter of two and take out one less land than quarter sided in (if that makes sense?). The lands can set off our graveyard. I was considering going back up to 21 for more consistency. I think that if I were to take out salvages for reunion I definitely wouldn't take out any lands right away because the salvage is way more reliable In getting me a land when I want it. That's why I like it right now because it's basically a pick a card from the top 5 and out it into your hand and dump the rest. So you get to choose which card you take. Reunion is a blind shot at three cards or a massive dredge (which does sound delicious).

Quote from jackad7 »

@killer_manfred don't worry about it hit wanted to make sure I didn't do anything wrong

About cathartic reunion, do you guys find yourselves drawing three or dredging three (or in what combination do you dredge/draw)?

I think we're jumping to cutting lands way too quick. Change one thing at a time. Often times I sideboard in a ghost quarter of two and take out one less land than quarter sided in (if that makes sense?). The lands can set off our graveyard. I was considering going back up to 21 for more consistency. I think that if I were to take out salvages for reunion I definitely wouldn't take out any lands right away because the salvage is way more reliable In getting me a land when I want it. That's why I like it right now because it's basically a pick a card from the top 5 and out it into your hand and dump the rest. So you get to choose which card you take. Reunion is a blind shot at three cards or a massive dredge (which does sound delicious).

I think one of the best things about Dredge and how it works, is that you don't have to Draw 3 or Dredge 3. The way it works is every time you would draw any card you get to replace that draw. So draw 3 could be Dredge 3, Dredge 2, Draw 1, or Dredge 1 Draw 2. The best part is that you don't need to decide if you want to dredge again until you get done dredging the first time. Options are fantastic, and honestly, playing Dredge legitimately feels like cheating sometimes

As so people talking about cutting lands, I've (in the past) tried various land counts with this deck. From down to 16 to up to 24. 20 is the optimal number of lands you want. Any less and you can't reliably recur Bloodghasts or cast your spell. And more and you get flooded and can't put your food on the aggro pedal. I would never recommend cutting lands and going below 20.

about lands, i think it might be good to increase the land count up to 21-lands.

from my experience i observed that some of my mulligan decision are due to one land openers. another observation is that most of my "to dredge or to draw" decision involves lands, i often make a draw decision if i need to get my next land.

having more lands in the deck indirectly results to more dredging opportunity.

Alright, then what do you cut for the 21st land?

In a lot of instances you don't ever need more than 3 lands in play, hell sometimes all you need is 2. I don't really see a need to go up to 21 in the mana base.

i haven't decided yet what to cut for that 21st land: my candidate would either be 1 of golgari thug(3) or 1 of lotleth troll(4), i'll start my testing with lotleth troll

So I've been doing some testing with the list Manfred posted, and I think I am just going to cut the Conflagrates to test out Cathartic Reunion. In most cases you're only discarding 1-3 cards with Conflagrate anyway, and being able to Dredge a bunch in replace of the damage seems worth it. However not being able to cast it from the graveyard might be a bit of a downside, but we will see.

hi! may i ask for help? anyone here plays mtgo? i'm playing mtg in paper and only during weekdays that's why i cant properly do something testing with my deck. can anyone help me do the testing online, here's my decklist.

you may choose your own lands and sideboard. thanks in advance! this will be a great help and very much appreciated.

Quote from Killer_Manfred »

Thanks for the testing. What do you think of cutting the Loam, a Haunted Dead, and only a single Conflagrate? I just found it too valuable against decks that go wide or to sometimes push through that little bit of damage needed to kill your opponent.

After playing with the list I don't actually want to go below 2 Haunted Dead. It's so good in the deck it isn't even funny, hell part of me wants to go up to 3 or 4 but I can't see that reasonably working, and I don't know what I'd cut for them anyway.

You want to keep the Loam in the deck as well since it lets you get back some lands you ambush your opponents with Bloodghasts so you can kill them.

I know you don't want 4 Cathartic Reunion in the deck (I'm getting 4 foil copies of the card anyway, just to be sure) but I'm gonna test out the numbers. Right now 3 seems like the appropriate amount because you basically want one every single game but they're not cards you want to Dredge over. Maybe 2 would be a better number? We'll have to see.

As an example of how good Reunion is, if I can cast it on turn 2, I am usually starting turn 3 with half my deck already in the bin. It's all kinds of stupid.

So what's our consensus come to on the optimal number of Dredge cards to have in the deck? Most lists I've seen you guys have been floating around 7. However I remember in the past running up to 10 Dredge cards in the main. Is 7 the number everyone decided on as the optimal number?

I highly agree on 4. Played some games last night and t2 cathartic was amazing. Tried 3, as suggested (thank you KillerManfred!) and I just wanted more. You rarely need to cast the 2nd reunion if you had 2 in your opening hand, but after that, it's most definitely game.

At first, I was too fed up with cutting Lightning Axe or Conflagarate from the mb, since that means there would be no mb answers to ooze. Since the deck actually became almost one turn faster, I wouldn't need to worry too much. They can't exile fast enough and the explosiveness is really crazy! One thing I missed was Life from the Loam, so I'll be trying 4 troll 2 imp 2 loam. 3 imp sounds more correct, but I'm hoping the 2nd loam could make up for it with its utility. Getting that 3rd land drop is so important for this deck.

Postboard, I'm definitely keeping abrupt decay and nature's claim. I believe those are must haves.

I think 3 is the correct number of Reunions. If you want a fourth, I think I'd take out a Lotleth Troll for it.

With 3 you should get one early most games. Obviously having the fourth makes the numbers go up just that much more.

But damn Reunion has made me love this deck all over again <3

If Moldervine Cloak wasn't the only Dredgechantment I'd consider it an entertaining side way to play Dredge. As it stands it's probably quite off topic and probably won't work all too well lol.

Is there a stock list to start with?

I read through the past couple of pages, but there was no censensus about the best possible build.

Yup, that's pretty much the list.

Played some more games in the past days. Life from the Loam is not as effective as I thought and I find myself wishing it was just the other Stinkweed Imp whenever it hits the yard, and I also don't run Conflagrate anymore. With Cathartic Reunion, even without the dredge engine, you still get to draw 3 cards and discard relevant creatures, which helps me hit the land drops I need. Dakmor Salvage as a 1-of is also good as it gave me that very last land drop I needed to set up my Ghasts and Amalgams. And Haunted Dead saved me in 2 games by being a graveyard discard outlet as well as giving me a spirit chump blocker, so I'll never be taking her out again.

I moved the Loams to the sideboard, but I'm not really sure what matchups to side them in for. Postboard, grave hate is inevitable so siding in Loam seems pretty bad. I'm not sure though, any advice?