Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Nice to see this deck is becoming viable. I wonder if Unburial Rites warrants a place in the 4C version? Bringing back Grave Troll just adds another win con
For the 4 colour decks playing Narcomoebe, I really think they should include Golgari Thug in some number. The Golgari Thug adds even more lines to a very complicated deck to play.
When a Golgari Thug dies you can put the Narcomoeba on top of your library, and then on your next card draw you can Dredge back the Golgari Thug and put the Narcomoeba and all Prized Amalgams into play.
You can cast an Insolent Neonate, sac it and Dredge the Golgari Thug and then cast the Golgari Thug to get back Vengevines and Prized Amalgams (if you have Vengevines that return), for just 3 mana. You also have a Thug for chump blocking which when he dies you can either set an Insolent Neonate back on top of your library and repeat the process or you can set a Narcomoeba on top and Dredge it away.
I see two completely different mana bases being played right now, both having success in Modern Leagues.
The traditional Dredgevine manabase (if a traditional Dredgevine mana base is even a thing) involving fetches/shocks some fastlands and some basics.
The new version that runs Dakmor Salvage, Gemstone Mines, a lot of fastlands and some basics. This looks more like a list that a straight up Dredge deck would run.
I feel like the new version might just be a budget approach. I do like the interaction of Gemstone Mine and Life from the Loam, but in general I feel like if you want to be casting Life from the Loam playing with the traditional mana base is a better idea as you can get your lands into play untapped more often.
The problem I see with Dakmor Salvage, is that while Dakmor allows you can hit your land drops, the land comes into play tapped (a loss of tempo) and instead of Dredging 5 or 6 you're dredging 2 so your graveyard isn't being filled as fast, which means future turns will be less explosive. I can see running 1 Dakmor salvage if you can fit it in your mana base and you need to up your dredge count. Before I added a second copy of Dakmor I would really examine whether Life from the Loam would be better as I feel they often have the same role in the deck.
I see two completely different mana bases being played right now, both having success in Modern Leagues.
The traditional Dredgevine manabase (if a traditional Dredgevine mana base is even a thing) involving fetches/shocks some fastlands and some basics.
The new version that runs Dakmor Salvage, Gemstone Mines, a lot of fastlands and some basics. This looks more like a list that a straight up Dredge deck would run.
I feel like the new version might just be a budget approach. I do like the interaction of Gemstone Mine and Life from the Loam, but in general I feel like if you want to be casting Life from the Loam playing with the traditional mana base is a better idea as you can get your lands into play untapped more often.
The problem I see with Dakmor Salvage, is that while Dakmor allows you can hit your land drops, the land comes into play tapped (a loss of tempo) and instead of Dredging 5 or 6 you're dredging 2 so your graveyard isn't being filled as fast, which means future turns will be less explosive. I can see running 1 Dakmor salvage if you can fit it in your mana base and you need to up your dredge count. Before I added a second copy of Dakmor I would really examine whether Life from the Loam would be better as I feel they often have the same role in the deck.
The thing about Dakmor Salvage is that you aren't replacing any of your normal dredge tools with it, but instead it is a land that gives you even more dredge. It is rather adding a utility dredge land to the deck without losing a normal dredge creature slot, but instead losing some land tempo. I generally try to get to 3-4 lands, then any lands after that feel like flood. This at least gives them a purpose of being more dredge fodder, because the more dredge in the graveyard the happier I am.
Any advice on how to beat leyline of the void? Idk if it's just because the sideboards on cockatrice are typically ridiculous or if it's because the decks getting some attention but man I am constantly losing to turn 0 leyline of the void game 2 and 3 as if they have like 4 in the board just for me. Rey of revelation in the opener or bust it seems tbh.
What do you guys think about this non-Vengevine version of Dredge that runs Greater Garagdon, Burning Inquiry, Prized Amalgam, etc. I've run into a couple of times and it seemed very powerful. Apologies if this thread is strictly for Vengevine versions only.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Heads up guys, it looks like dredge pieces are being bought out at the moment (specifically greater Gargadon). Might be a good idea to get your playsets now before the prices go up more
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Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
There are quite a few variations of Dredge and Dredgevine lists running around right now. There is Dredge with a reanimator package, we have Dredge with Bridge from Below, we have Dredgevine without Vengevine, we have Dredgevine without Dredge, we have 4-colour Dredgevine with Hedron Crabs, we have Jund Dredgevine + Prized Amalgam. By no means is there a consensus best version of either Dredge or Dredgevine so that gives me a lot of hope going forward that over time the decks' performance will improve as more people test with it.
I will say that the reason I'm on Dredgevine as opposed to Dredge is that in the worst case, against very heavy graveyard hate, Dredgevine can just turn guys sideways as a mediocre aggro deck and have a chance of winning the game through the hate.
When Dredgevine has to start packing hate for Dredge decks I think that's the sign for me to put the deck down for a while and play something else.
What are your thoughts on zero copies of Abrupt Decay in the 75? I feel like it's a key card in winning against graveyard hate but I suppose thoughtseize fills the same role and hits their gy hate before they have the chance to cast it
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Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
What are your thoughts on zero copies of Abrupt Decay in the 75? I feel like it's a key card in winning against graveyard hate but I suppose thoughtseize fills the same role and hits their gy hate before they have the chance to cast it
That is an awfully bold deck with one removal card (limited to creatures too) that is dead in the yard in his main. It would work if you can be aggressive enough but in past experiences it hasn't because that's just too fast and we can't get out fast enough.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
I've been using a similar list do Oliver Tiu's (-1 Lightning Axe, +1 Tymaret and different mana base and sideboard) with a lot of success. But with all the Abzan Company decks running around I am sick of losing to Scavenging Ooze on the spot and seriously considering running 4 Pithing Needles on the side (Also happens to be good against Relic of Progenitus)
From all the games I've played with this deck I've learned that there are two main ways I can lose:
1 - Deck loses to itself. Bad keeps lead to slow and irritating games. I learned that this deck mulligans very well. If you can start the chain as early as turn 1 the game will be decided much more on what you put in your grave than on your starting hand size. So I started to mulligan aggressively. It's harder to brick throwing 12 cards on the grave per turn than it is drawing 1 card per turn. The idea of the deck is to overwhelm your opponent with early creatures. If you can't it's gonna be hard to win.
2 - Graveyard hate. I've learned (as I imagine everyone playing this deck did too) that if your opponent resolves a graveyard hate card and you don't have an answer to that, you'll lose. Sometimes even if you have the answer you'll lose anyway as the damaged has already been done. Graveyard hate is BY FAR the responsible for the majority of my losses. And I've been thinking in dedicating a good chunk of my sideboard to try to get around that problem. Cards like Thoughtseize, Pithing Needle, Golgari Charm.
But the problem is much more what cards I side out than what cards I side in. I would like to have you guys opinions on this as well in your experiences against different decks.
Since this list (with minor changes) is been shaping up to be the more played list, it would be nice to start discussing the different strategies we should adopt against different metas.
for me, it's been rest in peace, ooze, relic, and leyline. That is all the hate that I have encountered recently. In terms of sb, rest in peace and relic are the most common. Ooze is often seen main board in jund/ abzan and occasionally chord decks.
In order of frequency it's probably scooze (frequently mainboarded in jund and abzan in my meta), rest in peace, relic of progenitus and very uncommonly leyline of the void. I started packing nature's claims in my sideboard for leyline even though it's rare to see because there's nothing the deck can do to properly win through it otherwise and no other cards in the entire 75 can remove it. Also tormod's crypt has turned up a couple of times but if you can play around it and get them to crack it early by presenting one or two threats in the graveyard it's not too big of a deal
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Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Got second at an SCG IQ with Dredge yesterday; was sweet. The most fun I've had playing magic in years. Can post games and a list if people are interested.
Also the biggest hate cards in order are Grafdigger's Cage, Rest in Peace, Scooze. Also saw a Nihil Spellbomb yesterday.
We got a shout out.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
I feel like the new version might just be a budget approach. I do like the interaction of Gemstone Mine and Life from the Loam, but in general I feel like if you want to be casting Life from the Loam playing with the traditional mana base is a better idea as you can get your lands into play untapped more often.
The problem I see with Dakmor Salvage, is that while Dakmor allows you can hit your land drops, the land comes into play tapped (a loss of tempo) and instead of Dredging 5 or 6 you're dredging 2 so your graveyard isn't being filled as fast, which means future turns will be less explosive. I can see running 1 Dakmor salvage if you can fit it in your mana base and you need to up your dredge count. Before I added a second copy of Dakmor I would really examine whether Life from the Loam would be better as I feel they often have the same role in the deck.
The thing about Dakmor Salvage is that you aren't replacing any of your normal dredge tools with it, but instead it is a land that gives you even more dredge. It is rather adding a utility dredge land to the deck without losing a normal dredge creature slot, but instead losing some land tempo. I generally try to get to 3-4 lands, then any lands after that feel like flood. This at least gives them a purpose of being more dredge fodder, because the more dredge in the graveyard the happier I am.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
I'll give that a try. Maybe if I just overload a full 4 in the side board I'll have a chance.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
I will say that the reason I'm on Dredgevine as opposed to Dredge is that in the worst case, against very heavy graveyard hate, Dredgevine can just turn guys sideways as a mediocre aggro deck and have a chance of winning the game through the hate.
When Dredgevine has to start packing hate for Dredge decks I think that's the sign for me to put the deck down for a while and play something else.
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Vengevine
2 Rotting Rats
4 Faithless Looting
1 Life from the Loam
Instant (1)
1 Lightning Axe
Land (20)
2 Blood Crypt
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Drownyard Temple
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Darkblast
3 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ghoulsteed
What are your thoughts on zero copies of Abrupt Decay in the 75? I feel like it's a key card in winning against graveyard hate but I suppose thoughtseize fills the same role and hits their gy hate before they have the chance to cast it
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
From all the games I've played with this deck I've learned that there are two main ways I can lose:
1 - Deck loses to itself. Bad keeps lead to slow and irritating games. I learned that this deck mulligans very well. If you can start the chain as early as turn 1 the game will be decided much more on what you put in your grave than on your starting hand size. So I started to mulligan aggressively. It's harder to brick throwing 12 cards on the grave per turn than it is drawing 1 card per turn. The idea of the deck is to overwhelm your opponent with early creatures. If you can't it's gonna be hard to win.
2 - Graveyard hate. I've learned (as I imagine everyone playing this deck did too) that if your opponent resolves a graveyard hate card and you don't have an answer to that, you'll lose. Sometimes even if you have the answer you'll lose anyway as the damaged has already been done. Graveyard hate is BY FAR the responsible for the majority of my losses. And I've been thinking in dedicating a good chunk of my sideboard to try to get around that problem. Cards like Thoughtseize, Pithing Needle, Golgari Charm.
But the problem is much more what cards I side out than what cards I side in. I would like to have you guys opinions on this as well in your experiences against different decks.
Since this list (with minor changes) is been shaping up to be the more played list, it would be nice to start discussing the different strategies we should adopt against different metas.
for me, it's been rest in peace, ooze, relic, and leyline. That is all the hate that I have encountered recently. In terms of sb, rest in peace and relic are the most common. Ooze is often seen main board in jund/ abzan and occasionally chord decks.
In order of frequency it's probably scooze (frequently mainboarded in jund and abzan in my meta), rest in peace, relic of progenitus and very uncommonly leyline of the void. I started packing nature's claims in my sideboard for leyline even though it's rare to see because there's nothing the deck can do to properly win through it otherwise and no other cards in the entire 75 can remove it. Also tormod's crypt has turned up a couple of times but if you can play around it and get them to crack it early by presenting one or two threats in the graveyard it's not too big of a deal
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Also the biggest hate cards in order are Grafdigger's Cage, Rest in Peace, Scooze. Also saw a Nihil Spellbomb yesterday.
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)