I am on Humans Knightfall as well currently. Whats your main deck/SB configuration to make the match up more favorable against burn FoodChainGoblins? I am running the list that top 8ed GP Birmingham with 2 thalias GOT / 1 mayor in the main and a slightly different SB: 3 U.Will, 2 Gideon AOZ, 2 Burrenton Forge Tender and the rest is the same as the GP list without the Thalia GOT (moved to maindeck).
I bring the 3 U.will and the Forge Tenders against Burn but overall the match up feels very Play/Draw dependent...i miss spell queller here.
But overall Humans Knightfall has more raw power than traditional knightfall indeed. You win a lot of games against Titanshift/Storm and other random unfair decks just by having a quick clock and some minor disruptions. And the match up against Grixis Death Shadow and Eldrazi tron is favorable IMO.
No, I am just playing Human Company, not the mixture of Knightfall and Human Company, like the Grand Prix list.
I agree that Humans has more game vs. Titanshift because of creatures getting out of x/3 range quickly. Not to mention the Sin Collectors. I haven't run into Storm with this deck yet, but I feel it would be very favorable because of those, 2 Kambal, and 4 Rest in Peace in the side.
I feel that Knightfall does better with Affinity, but worse with Burn. I literally have nothing for Burn. But I feel that Humans does better with Burn, but worse with Affinity. I could certainly be wrong, but you see my Humans list here and Blueduck700's list is the one I use for Knightfall.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
@blueduck70 I saw your list and it kept me thinking on the thalias. Don't you think that making the company cost 5 and PtE 2 is punishing? I played a league now with 2x 3 mana Thalia maindeck instead of the Aven Mindcensors but I couldn't take any conclusions... Need more testing.
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Thalia is punishing for the non-creature spells, but if you have an early company you can just not play thalia. And if you do play thalia early, it's usually so good against the opponent that they have to remove it, or be slowed down against a tempo deck. Playing thalia is a real cost, as why I'm playing 2, but I really feel like they're better than voice or the 3rd scooze in this meta. I really think theres merit in disruption that plays to the board. Often it lets you tap out where otherwise you'd be forced to hold up spell queller for interaction vs storm or valakut.
I like 3 mana thalia, but the competition for 3 drops is so high.
If Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is good in the current meta (and I do believe she is), why not play the humans version of Knightfall with 2-3 Thalia? I believe it has the most raw power of any version of the deck, and if Thalia is the disruption we need right now, humans can support her better than any other, given the synergy with other humans. Personally I've been on a tear with Humans Knightfall. I haven't lost a match of paper magic with it yet (though admittedly no competitive events, just friendly games and FNM). From my experience with all three versions, this one seems the most powerful right now and Thalia might be the card to push it over the top against Titanshift and Storm.
Also, I've mentioned this before but Unified Will is just absurd out of the sideboard when a deck plays 11-12 1 drops. Gideon's Intervention is also an excellent piece of sideboard tech that needs to be explored further. Unlike Runed Halo it actually stops damage dealt to permanents you control, so it can actually blank Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. Our humans and Knights can then get so huge they make Primeval Titan look puny, and lock the Titanshift deck out of the game.
I absolutely agree that Human Knightfall may just be better. I was very convinced of that as of a week ago. This was more of an experiment in seeing if adapting thalia with better creature quality could do better against the meta. I decided to try thalia in classic knightfall after doing very poorly with humans against removal heavy decks (BGx, Jeskai). In the short game humans is much more powerful, but it just feels miserable to topdeck champion of the parish or sometimes thalia's lieutenant late game. I'm not convinced which is better (online meta has been changing a lot lately), but do think it's possible that a thalia heavy version with spellqueller could have merit.
List tags are malformed.
Which win con is better in Vizier, ballista or Rhonas?
Ballista, as it's a better mana sink on an empty board, and is super good against affinity. Rhonas does get around leyline of sanctity if you're concerned about that though.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Hey guys, first time poster. Been playing a fairly stock list the last 4 months. After spending a few weeks watching Stevens play out a variety of g/w or bant coco lists, I've noticed he has been leaning into the 3 drop slot a lot more than stock lists. To take his advice, I cut the 2 drops down to 6 total and I have been playing 3 Courser and 3 Geist and I love it. Yes, if they bolt the bird it can be a set back, but we have an advantage in the grindy matchup that those removal spells point towards. The power of the mass impact 3 drops come into play verses the combo/tron decks. Anyway, I was wanting to get any feedback or input from others who have tried or are thinking of maximizing the 3 drop slot!
Congrats on your result, but I have some questions regarding your list:
1. Why do you play Sejiri Steppe over the red package (Kessig, Staticaster SB)?
2. Basic Island basically for Blood Moon?
3. How is Flashfreeze performing and why do you play it over Negate/Unified Will?
4. Would you advice Mindcensor only in a Titan-heavy meta?
5. In which matchups do you board in Revoker (against PWs mainly I guess)?
Precisely. And without that card, they're left with a bunch of dumb 6/6s that look puny compared toKnight of the Reliquary. I believe that Intervention, along with Unified Will / Flashfreeze might be the way forward in terms of beating Valakut decks.
What else does Gideon's Intervention hit? Just curious, I don't know if it is good enough to justify a spot in the sideboard if it only hits one match up.
What else does Gideon's Intervention hit? Just curious, I don't know if it is good enough to justify a spot in the sideboard if it only hits one match up.
Honestly, it's pretty new tech for me so I'm not too sure where I want it but I can think of a few matchups where I might bring it in: Valakut, Grapeshot, Ad Nauseam, maaaaybe Living End? Basically any deck that relies on a single card to end the game. If it ends up being good against Storm as well as Valakut, that's probably good enough to justify it.
Honestly, it's pretty new tech for me so I'm not too sure where I want it but I can think of a few matchups where I might bring it in: Valakut, Grapeshot, Ad Nauseam, maaaaybe Living End? Basically any deck that relies on a single card to end the game. If it ends up being good against Storm as well as Valakut, that's probably good enough to justify it.
Flex slots in maindeck are the 3x Voice of Resurgence, 2x Reflector Mage, and 2x Tireless Tracker. I picked the Voice of Resurgences as a staple that should stand up to aggro, midrange, and control by messing with removal and blocking. I picked Reflector Mage to complement the tempo plan when I'm on the beatdown and buy time when I'm under pressure. The Tireless Trackers are included mostly to be additional big beaters so I'm not entirely dependent on Knight. I'm open to changing all of these slots and I'm happily taking suggestions. I'm seriously considering Selfless Spirit because the flying will make my decks more aggressive than Voice and it fills a similar function vs removal. Although I'll miss Voice's performance vs Liliana of the Veil. Can anyone tell me how Voice of Resurgence and Selfless Spirit have been performing recently?
My sideboard flex slots are the 1x Reflector Mage and 3x Kitchen Finks. Between my maindeck, my sideboard counterspells, and some SB utility slots, I feel confident about most matchups; my remaining boogeymen are Burn and Eldrazi Tron. I've heard that Reflector Mage is good against Eldrazi Tron and it hits a lot of other decks, so that feels like a fine choice. The Kitchen Finks obviously impact the Burn matchup and have value in other matchups, but I'm really looking for them to help vs Eldrazi Tron... is Kitchen Finks any good vs Eldrazi Tron? Does anyone have suggestions for more proactive Eldrazi Tron hate in the sideboard? Please weigh in on this one!
Other sideboard cards I'm considering are Rhox War Monk (hopefully more value than Kitchen Finks against raw aggro but less good against midrange), an extra Negate or Unified Will for general use, and Gideon's Intervention or Worship for Burn and Eldrazi Tron while splash hating on combo decks.
Honestly, it's pretty new tech for me so I'm not too sure where I want it but I can think of a few matchups where I might bring it in: Valakut, Grapeshot, Ad Nauseam, maaaaybe Living End? Basically any deck that relies on a single card to end the game. If it ends up being good against Storm as well as Valakut, that's probably good enough to justify it.
In a Sideboard like this, what would you personally take out to replace with Gideon's Intervention?
Which version is this? I'm guessing it's the traditional version?
Regardless, probably Gaddock Teeg. I don't like Teeg in this deck because it stops us from casting our own Cocos. It also does nothing against Valakut decks and dies to every removal under the sun. There could be an argument for taking out a 1/1 split between Teeg and Eidolon.
Honestly, it's pretty new tech for me so I'm not too sure where I want it but I can think of a few matchups where I might bring it in: Valakut, Grapeshot, Ad Nauseam, maaaaybe Living End? Basically any deck that relies on a single card to end the game. If it ends up being good against Storm as well as Valakut, that's probably good enough to justify it.
In a Sideboard like this, what would you personally take out to replace with Gideon's Intervention?
Which version is this? I'm guessing it's the traditional version?
Regardless, probably Gaddock Teeg. I don't like Teeg in this deck because it stops us from casting our own Cocos. It also does nothing against Valakut decks and dies to every removal under the sun. There could be an argument for taking out a 1/1 split between Teeg and Eidolon.
If she were legal every modern event you’d have mother of runes decks, and vicious degenerate combo decks to dodge the BS that is mother of Runes creature vs. creature MU. But yes, if you could play her, you would fit 4 into the main, no questions asked.
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No, I am just playing Human Company, not the mixture of Knightfall and Human Company, like the Grand Prix list.
I am running this list.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/humans-coco-in-modern/
But 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar. The SB has waffled between 13-15 of those cards too.
I agree that Humans has more game vs. Titanshift because of creatures getting out of x/3 range quickly. Not to mention the Sin Collectors. I haven't run into Storm with this deck yet, but I feel it would be very favorable because of those, 2 Kambal, and 4 Rest in Peace in the side.
I feel that Knightfall does better with Affinity, but worse with Burn. I literally have nothing for Burn. But I feel that Humans does better with Burn, but worse with Affinity. I could certainly be wrong, but you see my Humans list here and Blueduck700's list is the one I use for Knightfall.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I absolutely agree that Human Knightfall may just be better. I was very convinced of that as of a week ago. This was more of an experiment in seeing if adapting thalia with better creature quality could do better against the meta. I decided to try thalia in classic knightfall after doing very poorly with humans against removal heavy decks (BGx, Jeskai). In the short game humans is much more powerful, but it just feels miserable to topdeck champion of the parish or sometimes thalia's lieutenant late game. I'm not convinced which is better (online meta has been changing a lot lately), but do think it's possible that a thalia heavy version with spellqueller could have merit.
List tags are malformed.
Ballista, as it's a better mana sink on an empty board, and is super good against affinity. Rhonas does get around leyline of sanctity if you're concerned about that though.
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Here's a list, I'm not super familiar with creating the deck lists on this forum: https://deckbox.org/sets/1744888?s=c&o=a&v=l
1. Why do you play Sejiri Steppe over the red package (Kessig, Staticaster SB)?
2. Basic Island basically for Blood Moon?
3. How is Flashfreeze performing and why do you play it over Negate/Unified Will?
4. Would you advice Mindcensor only in a Titan-heavy meta?
5. In which matchups do you board in Revoker (against PWs mainly I guess)?
Runed Halo doesn't actually stop much that we care about. Gideon's Intervention, while more expensive, can shut down a lot of cards that we care about, including Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
One significant difference related to Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is that Runed Halo doesn't stop them from using Valakut to wipe our board, whereas Gideon's Intervention does.
Precisely. And without that card, they're left with a bunch of dumb 6/6s that look puny compared toKnight of the Reliquary. I believe that Intervention, along with Unified Will / Flashfreeze might be the way forward in terms of beating Valakut decks.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
Honestly, it's pretty new tech for me so I'm not too sure where I want it but I can think of a few matchups where I might bring it in: Valakut, Grapeshot, Ad Nauseam, maaaaybe Living End? Basically any deck that relies on a single card to end the game. If it ends up being good against Storm as well as Valakut, that's probably good enough to justify it.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
In a Sideboard like this, what would you personally take out to replace with Gideon's Intervention?
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Reflector Mage
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
4 Collected Company
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Gavony Township
20 other land
3 Unified Will
1 Negate
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Stony Silence
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Kataki
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Linvala
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Reflector Mage
3 Kitchen Finks
Flex slots in maindeck are the 3x Voice of Resurgence, 2x Reflector Mage, and 2x Tireless Tracker. I picked the Voice of Resurgences as a staple that should stand up to aggro, midrange, and control by messing with removal and blocking. I picked Reflector Mage to complement the tempo plan when I'm on the beatdown and buy time when I'm under pressure. The Tireless Trackers are included mostly to be additional big beaters so I'm not entirely dependent on Knight. I'm open to changing all of these slots and I'm happily taking suggestions. I'm seriously considering Selfless Spirit because the flying will make my decks more aggressive than Voice and it fills a similar function vs removal. Although I'll miss Voice's performance vs Liliana of the Veil. Can anyone tell me how Voice of Resurgence and Selfless Spirit have been performing recently?
My sideboard flex slots are the 1x Reflector Mage and 3x Kitchen Finks. Between my maindeck, my sideboard counterspells, and some SB utility slots, I feel confident about most matchups; my remaining boogeymen are Burn and Eldrazi Tron. I've heard that Reflector Mage is good against Eldrazi Tron and it hits a lot of other decks, so that feels like a fine choice. The Kitchen Finks obviously impact the Burn matchup and have value in other matchups, but I'm really looking for them to help vs Eldrazi Tron... is Kitchen Finks any good vs Eldrazi Tron? Does anyone have suggestions for more proactive Eldrazi Tron hate in the sideboard? Please weigh in on this one!
Other sideboard cards I'm considering are Rhox War Monk (hopefully more value than Kitchen Finks against raw aggro but less good against midrange), an extra Negate or Unified Will for general use, and Gideon's Intervention or Worship for Burn and Eldrazi Tron while splash hating on combo decks.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Which version is this? I'm guessing it's the traditional version?
Regardless, probably Gaddock Teeg. I don't like Teeg in this deck because it stops us from casting our own Cocos. It also does nothing against Valakut decks and dies to every removal under the sun. There could be an argument for taking out a 1/1 split between Teeg and Eidolon.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
This is the list I'm currently on: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-09-17-bant-knightfall/
Ah, I like Gaddock, I dont know how useful it actually is. The Gaddock is mainly a hate piece against Storm and any Tron Variant.