Thanks! When boarding in staticaster what are you looking to hit? Glistener elf, elves and affinity pieces right?
It can be good against abzan too, hitting the viscera seer. I've used it against delver decks that tried to flood with young pyro on games 2 or 3. Also with retreat in play you can hit X/2s
It can be good against abzan too, hitting the viscera seer. I've used it against delver decks that tried to flood with young pyro on games 2 or 3. Also with retreat in play you can hit X/2s
Yep. Can also kill a 2/1 finks (and if they try to go for the combo with anafenza, you can disrupt it this way. Doesn't work with melira though.
Against pyro/mentor tokens it's super useful too, as you said. Attacking with something small on purpose (like, a finks into a thought knot seer) can randomly kill things (hasn't came up for me yet, but I can see it happening against decks with both small and big creatures like d&t)
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Both are very similar, especially manabase-wise. I think the most surprising part of the #2 placed deck is the lack of sideboard cards for Burn. I wonder if they board in the counters but no life gain?
I also think its interesting how much they differ in their evaluation of card advantage. The big battle seems to be between Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker.
I like the 1 Eldritch Evolution in the sideboard as an x+1 copy of some key sideboard creatures.
I could be mistaken, but the one-two retreats in those lists indicates to me that the deck is moving further away from the combo and turning into an even more midrange deck.
I think that moving away from retreat is a big big mistake. The combo is what makes this deck different from abzan and similar, and what makes knight of the reliquary a good card (like, lands are not good enough to run knight to tutor them, and goyf is better at hitting than knight). 2-4 copies of retreat is okay, 1 is not enough.
Don't really like rubin's SB choices. Obstinate baloth, not a really good card in a company deck. 2 elspeth is a bit greedy too.
For what do they want the reflector mages? eldrazi?
dunno if anyone else saw already, but Knightfall won the dutch open series for modern, in the hands of Naud Berkhuizen. the decklist looks like this (based on their facebook post)
Looks like Rubin was metagaming for control by moving away from the combo. He felt Tracker + Knight would wear down control decks in what he perceived as the most important archetypes in the MOCS.
So have no fear, in an open field, dedicating 3 slots to the combo can still be correct.
@rogue_love Reflector Mage is best when the opponent is playing 1 larger creature per turn. But you already knew that. But in addition any creature combat deck is weak to reflector mage. Hitting one off of a Collected Company versus Infect or Temur Battle Rage decks can give you the extra turns you need as well as wreck some of their resources.
I have found that if you are playing any type of aggro deck, the Reflector Mages should stay in the board. There isn't enough of a tempo gain.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
it's weird to me to see all of these lists running 4 noble hierarch, 3 birds of paradise despite also running wolf run. are we approaching a consensus that hierarch is better?
I think most western players have long felt that way, but some asian players had tried 4 birds.
That video series is pretty sweet, but its worth noting that the pilot makes a number of mistakes, and often missed lines of play that ended the game more quickly with kessig. He was also uncertain about the comboing mechanics, so players should take heed to make sure to goldfish out the combo a bunch of times to get quick and comfortable with it.
I do like the way I've seen tireless tracker play out, I think it's worth thinking about cutting down to 2 retreats and putting in a couple trackers.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Seems like the lists are tightening up with all the new goodies we've been getting. Tracker, Selfless Spirit, and Spell Queller have really powered the deck up and caused the lists to coalesce into tighter shells. As has the SB Izzet Staticaster(s).
On that note, what do people think about the sideboard Elspeth, Sun's Champions? I get the idea of grinding out long games, but I can't help but feel that Elspeth, Knight-Errant would pull the same weight at a much lower CMC. We're so aggressive and creature-heavy that throwing a creature at our opponent once is likely to close out a game, let alone do it repeatedly. I get that with 7 dorks, 4WW becomes more doable, but I feel like I'd rather have a turn 3-4 Knight-Errant than a turn 5-7 Sun's Champion.
I get the lack of Kitchen Finks (I don't run them either), but I've had a lot of success with a couple Burrenton Forge-Tenders in the board. I feel like that might be a good replacement for the 1-of Obstinate Baloth in his board.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I like Rhox war monk over baloth. The card is good against lightning bolt grindy decks like bgr/bur, as well as aggressive decks like zoo, dredge, affinity and burn. The card is notably weaker against Reality Smasher/ Liliana of the Veil than Baloth, but it has a ton of upside in the matchups where it is more important - and in some matchups a single hit with kessig is enough to seal the game. Being a hit for coco is also pretty clutch for efficiency of that card slot (value increased since you'll see it more often).
Sun's Champion seems strange in a deck looking to have a big creature in play. 2 certainly looks like overkill.
I tried a number of games with Renegade Rallier, and I regretted it not being Eternal Witness more often than not. Since we are proactive first, holding back a fetch to use with rallier caused some tension (and the card is bad without revolt).
2 Tireless Trackers, 1 Courser and 2 Retreat is where I'm going for a more grindy meta for the moment.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I like Rhox war monk over baloth. The card is good against lightning bolt grindy decks like bgr/bur, as well as aggressive decks like zoo, dredge, affinity and burn. The card is notably weaker against Reality Smasher/ Liliana of the Veil than Baloth, but it has a ton of upside in the matchups where it is more important - and in some matchups a single hit with kessig is enough to seal the game. Being a hit for coco is also pretty clutch for efficiency of that card slot (value increased since you'll see it more often).
Sun's Champion seems strange in a deck looking to have a big creature in play. 2 certainly looks like overkill.
I tried a number of games with Renegade Rallier, and I regretted it not being Eternal Witness more often than not. Since we are proactive first, holding back a fetch to use with rallier caused some tension (and the card is bad without revolt).
2 Tireless Trackers, 1 Courser and 2 Retreat is where I'm going for a more grindy meta for the moment.
Rhox War Monkis pretty sick. I keep going back and forth between it and Burrenton Forge-Tender. Pro red and 1 CMC are amazing, but that lifelink + some Exalted triggers + pump, as you noted, can completely shut a deck down. I suppose requiring Revolt to hit it with Fatal Push is also pretty relevant in some matchups.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Rhox war monk is brutal, I agree that those baloths should have been monks.
I'm currently loving burrenton forge tender. Anger of the gods is a card that gives me nightmares (I've been playing a lot of spirits recently) so any protection is welcome. I prefer the lifegain of rhox against aggro, it's not so good against midrange decks (like, it's good but there are better things).
Selfless spirit does so much work, the three copies have been more than justified for me. I want to see which creature is better in this deck, tireless tracker or courser. I like that tireless tracker has a more affordable mana cost (2g vs 1gg). As we gravitate more towards UW flash I like less all this double green costs (courser and witness). And playing tracker before making a land drop to immediately get a clue kind of makes up for its vulnerability.
I'm still on my Zoo list with incidental knightfall combo. Recently swapped out Wild Nacatl for Narnam Renegade to test as it's certainly close to nacatl and is far better with collected company. While you want to get maximum mana advantage from coco I feel a more aggressive deck still needs 1 drop action, having your 1 drop threat slot filled with a deathtoucher means they aren't lackluster/dead hits later in the game as you can coco during combat and force some hilarious trades. Who knows if it's actually better but I figure revolt is incredibly easy to trigger with 12 fetchlands. Still solidly aggressive and lightning rods removal which is great for keeping your larger later threats on the board. Heres the link
it's weird to me to see all of these lists running 4 noble hierarch, 3 birds of paradise despite also running wolf run. are we approaching a consensus that hierarch is better?
I wasn't sure about this until I started testing with 2 Selfless Spirits and 4 Spell Quellers. Now, I'm a believer in 3-4 Bird-Noble.
In my experience, Birds' ability to generate R doesn't often come up. I haven't had a game yet whose course would have been changed if my Noble could give me R with how infrequently it's called for and how easily we can search it out with fetches and Knight (plus having 3 Birds anyways). However, the number of games I've started winning off Exalted triggers has climbed dramatically since I added an extra 6 flyers to my deck. That alone has made me a solid convert of the Noble-over-Bird way. IMO, Bird was more useful as a flying body that could be targeted by Kessig Wolf Run than as a Wolf Run enabler. Now, we have 6-7 additional flyers who can fill in that role, and who all incidentally play very nicely with Exalted. That's my experience, anyways.
Question for you all: What do you think about SB Aven Mindcensor? I happen to run into a lot of U or Gx Tron and other tutor-happy decks like Chord of Calling, and I feel like a turn-2 Mindcensor who can also beat the opponent to death is worth of inclusion. And it hits off of CoCo. Thoughts?
One final thought for now: I've been thinking about and testing with two Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the board. It's been really useful in those game vs. for example Jund and Grixis where you usually just need to bring out the combo because all your crap is dying anyways and you just want more threats. It usually closes out a game within a turn or two, and if not, it just overwhelms your opponent and then goes over the top. (Ultimating isn't even out of the question, although it's usually completely unnecessary.) However, I've also been thinking about two Garruk Wildspeaker in that slot, as he has some real upsides:
Making a 3/3 is serious business when we're playing beatdown (almost always)
He Overruns for us after rolling up just once, which on top of CoCo and tons of dudes is usually game over
He's GG instead of WW, which seems to fit a little more easily (although lists going with Vendilion Clique may have a hard time with either)
I haven't actually gotten around to testing with him yet, but I think those perks warrant a look. My gut feeling is that Elspeth's ability to roll to 5 while generating bodies or throwing your creatures at your opponent is going to outvalue Garruk, but you never know until you try.
Of course you can always go the Ancestral Vision route if you really want to go serious in card advantage post-board, but I don't think that's what we want to do.
One final thought for now: I've been thinking about and testing with two Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the board. It's been really useful in those game vs. for example Jund and Grixis where you usually just need to bring out the combo because all your crap is dying anyways and you just want more threats. It usually closes out a game within a turn or two, and if not, it just overwhelms your opponent and then goes over the top. (Ultimating isn't even out of the question, although it's usually completely unnecessary.) However, I've also been thinking about two Garruk Wildspeaker in that slot, as he has some real upsides:
Making a 3/3 is serious business when we're playing beatdown (almost always)
He Overruns for us after rolling up just once, which on top of CoCo and tons of dudes is usually game over
He's GG instead of WW, which seems to fit a little more easily (although lists going with Vendilion Clique may have a hard time with either)
I haven't actually gotten around to testing with him yet, but I think those perks warrant a look. My gut feeling is that Elspeth's ability to roll to 5 while generating bodies or throwing your creatures at your opponent is going to outvalue Garruk, but you never know until you try.
Of course you can always go the Ancestral Vision route if you really want to go serious in card advantage post-board, but I don't think that's what we want to do.
Since we're discussing planeswalkers and card advantage anyway, what do we think of Domri Rade? I haven't done the math but after a fetch or two his plus looks like a little over 50% to hit, and both of his minuses seem relevant to us. Being one mana cheaper might matter, but I don't know if the red in his cost is a hinderance.
Unrelated, but I've started to get the cards I need to put this together in paper (yay) which means that this is the perfect time to get any last tweaks done. So this is what I'm working on right now:
I had a couple questions arise recently that seem beyond the ability of anyone I know to answer, so I thought I'd see how you all feel.
1) the Horizon Canopy feels kind of random and unnecessary. is it important, or can I cut it for another shock/BFZ dual thing/utility land?
2) Between Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker which one should I be playing? I have a personal preference for courser, but is the better attack on tracker just worth it? or should I be looking at my metagame to make that decision?
3) I have blessed alliance here mostly to edict infect, but the infect presence seems much reduced since the bannings. Should I be playing Kitchen finks/something else instead?
4)I've found a few ways I can pretty easily make a few cards space in my sideboard, but I have no clue what to do with them. should I nab affinity hate, bojuka bog, more/better counterspells, or something else entirely?
I'd appreciate any advice you kind people can give, I lack the experience and this is just over the heads of my peers.
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Like 14 decks
Knightfall WURG
Yep. Can also kill a 2/1 finks (and if they try to go for the combo with anafenza, you can disrupt it this way. Doesn't work with melira though.
Against pyro/mentor tokens it's super useful too, as you said. Attacking with something small on purpose (like, a finks into a thought knot seer) can randomly kill things (hasn't came up for me yet, but I can see it happening against decks with both small and big creatures like d&t)
L: Maverick
Very spicy sideboard.
for clarity he took 2nd place at January 2017 MOCS Playoff which enabled him to qualify
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-mocs-2017-01-22
Both are very similar, especially manabase-wise. I think the most surprising part of the #2 placed deck is the lack of sideboard cards for Burn. I wonder if they board in the counters but no life gain?
I also think its interesting how much they differ in their evaluation of card advantage. The big battle seems to be between Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker.
I like the 1 Eldritch Evolution in the sideboard as an x+1 copy of some key sideboard creatures.
Don't really like rubin's SB choices. Obstinate baloth, not a really good card in a company deck. 2 elspeth is a bit greedy too.
For what do they want the reflector mages? eldrazi?
L: Maverick
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spellskite
4 Noble Hierach
3 Birds of Paradise
Noncreature
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Izzet Staticaster
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Reflector Mage
2 Unified Will
2 Negate
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Looks like Rubin was metagaming for control by moving away from the combo. He felt Tracker + Knight would wear down control decks in what he perceived as the most important archetypes in the MOCS.
So have no fear, in an open field, dedicating 3 slots to the combo can still be correct.
@rogue_love Reflector Mage is best when the opponent is playing 1 larger creature per turn. But you already knew that. But in addition any creature combat deck is weak to reflector mage. Hitting one off of a Collected Company versus Infect or Temur Battle Rage decks can give you the extra turns you need as well as wreck some of their resources.
I have found that if you are playing any type of aggro deck, the Reflector Mages should stay in the board. There isn't enough of a tempo gain.
That video series is pretty sweet, but its worth noting that the pilot makes a number of mistakes, and often missed lines of play that ended the game more quickly with kessig. He was also uncertain about the comboing mechanics, so players should take heed to make sure to goldfish out the combo a bunch of times to get quick and comfortable with it.
I do like the way I've seen tireless tracker play out, I think it's worth thinking about cutting down to 2 retreats and putting in a couple trackers.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Seems like the lists are tightening up with all the new goodies we've been getting. Tracker, Selfless Spirit, and Spell Queller have really powered the deck up and caused the lists to coalesce into tighter shells. As has the SB Izzet Staticaster(s).
On that note, what do people think about the sideboard Elspeth, Sun's Champions? I get the idea of grinding out long games, but I can't help but feel that Elspeth, Knight-Errant would pull the same weight at a much lower CMC. We're so aggressive and creature-heavy that throwing a creature at our opponent once is likely to close out a game, let alone do it repeatedly. I get that with 7 dorks, 4WW becomes more doable, but I feel like I'd rather have a turn 3-4 Knight-Errant than a turn 5-7 Sun's Champion.
I get the lack of Kitchen Finks (I don't run them either), but I've had a lot of success with a couple Burrenton Forge-Tenders in the board. I feel like that might be a good replacement for the 1-of Obstinate Baloth in his board.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Sun's Champion seems strange in a deck looking to have a big creature in play. 2 certainly looks like overkill.
I tried a number of games with Renegade Rallier, and I regretted it not being Eternal Witness more often than not. Since we are proactive first, holding back a fetch to use with rallier caused some tension (and the card is bad without revolt).
2 Tireless Trackers, 1 Courser and 2 Retreat is where I'm going for a more grindy meta for the moment.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Rhox War Monk is pretty sick. I keep going back and forth between it and Burrenton Forge-Tender. Pro red and 1 CMC are amazing, but that lifelink + some Exalted triggers + pump, as you noted, can completely shut a deck down. I suppose requiring Revolt to hit it with Fatal Push is also pretty relevant in some matchups.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I'm currently loving burrenton forge tender. Anger of the gods is a card that gives me nightmares (I've been playing a lot of spirits recently) so any protection is welcome. I prefer the lifegain of rhox against aggro, it's not so good against midrange decks (like, it's good but there are better things).
I'm currently playing this...
https://deckstats.net/decks/2563/655400-bant-queller-company-v5
Selfless spirit does so much work, the three copies have been more than justified for me. I want to see which creature is better in this deck, tireless tracker or courser. I like that tireless tracker has a more affordable mana cost (2g vs 1gg). As we gravitate more towards UW flash I like less all this double green costs (courser and witness). And playing tracker before making a land drop to immediately get a clue kind of makes up for its vulnerability.
L: Maverick
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
I wasn't sure about this until I started testing with 2 Selfless Spirits and 4 Spell Quellers. Now, I'm a believer in 3-4 Bird-Noble.
In my experience, Birds' ability to generate R doesn't often come up. I haven't had a game yet whose course would have been changed if my Noble could give me R with how infrequently it's called for and how easily we can search it out with fetches and Knight (plus having 3 Birds anyways). However, the number of games I've started winning off Exalted triggers has climbed dramatically since I added an extra 6 flyers to my deck. That alone has made me a solid convert of the Noble-over-Bird way. IMO, Bird was more useful as a flying body that could be targeted by Kessig Wolf Run than as a Wolf Run enabler. Now, we have 6-7 additional flyers who can fill in that role, and who all incidentally play very nicely with Exalted. That's my experience, anyways.
Question for you all: What do you think about SB Aven Mindcensor? I happen to run into a lot of U or Gx Tron and other tutor-happy decks like Chord of Calling, and I feel like a turn-2 Mindcensor who can also beat the opponent to death is worth of inclusion. And it hits off of CoCo. Thoughts?
One final thought for now: I've been thinking about and testing with two Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the board. It's been really useful in those game vs. for example Jund and Grixis where you usually just need to bring out the combo because all your crap is dying anyways and you just want more threats. It usually closes out a game within a turn or two, and if not, it just overwhelms your opponent and then goes over the top. (Ultimating isn't even out of the question, although it's usually completely unnecessary.) However, I've also been thinking about two Garruk Wildspeaker in that slot, as he has some real upsides:
Of course you can always go the Ancestral Vision route if you really want to go serious in card advantage post-board, but I don't think that's what we want to do.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Since we're discussing planeswalkers and card advantage anyway, what do we think of Domri Rade? I haven't done the math but after a fetch or two his plus looks like a little over 50% to hit, and both of his minuses seem relevant to us. Being one mana cheaper might matter, but I don't know if the red in his cost is a hinderance.
Unrelated, but I've started to get the cards I need to put this together in paper (yay) which means that this is the perfect time to get any last tweaks done. So this is what I'm working on right now:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf-Run
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
Creatures (27)
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Bant Charm
2 Negate
3 Izzet Staticaster
2 Worship
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Eldritch Evolution
I had a couple questions arise recently that seem beyond the ability of anyone I know to answer, so I thought I'd see how you all feel.
1) the Horizon Canopy feels kind of random and unnecessary. is it important, or can I cut it for another shock/BFZ dual thing/utility land?
2) Between Courser of Kruphix and Tireless Tracker which one should I be playing? I have a personal preference for courser, but is the better attack on tracker just worth it? or should I be looking at my metagame to make that decision?
3) I have blessed alliance here mostly to edict infect, but the infect presence seems much reduced since the bannings. Should I be playing Kitchen finks/something else instead?
4)I've found a few ways I can pretty easily make a few cards space in my sideboard, but I have no clue what to do with them. should I nab affinity hate, bojuka bog, more/better counterspells, or something else entirely?
I'd appreciate any advice you kind people can give, I lack the experience and this is just over the heads of my peers.