When sideboarding in 3-4 thoughtseizes to combat fast combo decks like bloom titan, is it correct to board out some amount of collected company since you will be lowering your creature count anyway?
I've been following this forum recently and been dying to know. Which version has been performing better, combo or the more aggressive version with smiters and such?
Good morning from Japan.
I just got back from a small local tournament and have some thoughts for you Zetsu.
Match One (win) - Played a Bloodghast Reanimator. Comboed out for infinite life turn 4, he scooped. Next, comboed out for life on turn three, and infinite damage turn four.
Match Two (loss) - splinter control countered all my threats and comboed out on turn 6ish. Then beat me down with batter skull, countering my Pridemages. Almost still pulled out that second game, but the disruption kept me from getting the third combo piece.
Match Three (loss) - red tron - got wrecked by multiple anger of the gods and pyroclasms destroying and exiling my combo pieces. Lost to a turn 7 Emrakul and then a turn four Ugin.
So. As I've suspected, the all-in combo version of the deck is very strong against "fair" decks, but it gets outclassed by the other tiered combo decks of the format.
Hopefully the rest of my cards will arrive this week and I'll join the midrange darkside.
I went 3-2 at States with the aggro list from a few pages back that I posted. Round 1 I crushed Abzan, round 2 lost to Gifts Tron (a miserable matchup, but he did draw extremely well after my Thoughtseize and Fulminator g2 to still t4 Elesh Norn), round 3 beat a RUG Countryside Crusher/Seismic Assault deck, round 4 beat Burn with maindeck Pillars of Flame and sideboard Torpor Orbs, Grafdigger's Cages, Blood Moons, etc., round 5 lost to 4-color Gifts without Green. G1 he got Iona on Green followed by Elesh Norn after I hit him down to 4, and game 2 I didn't realize he had a card in hand and got blown out by Electrolyze in an otherwise overwhelming board state.
I like both lists a lot. Quite a few people built the deck after it made up 50% of our top 4 last week at TCGplayer States despite having only two pilots in the tournament.
Wouldn't Altar of the Brood or Impact Tremors offer some alternative win-cons that also aren't as easy to deal with pre-board? (could also be used post board to confuse people)
R1 vs Scapeshift (1-2) 0 points
First round and a fairly good match but a bit unlucky.
R2 vs Eggs (Sunny Side Up) (2-0) 3 points
A newbie player with a hard deck to play.
R3 vs Burn (2-1) 6 points
I'll lose the first game, the second game resumes in T2 Kor Firewalker, third game resumes in I play creatures and he boltes/chumblockes all of my creatures, then with empty board double Kitchen Finks via collected company wins the game.
R4 vs Storm (2-0) 9 points
I've seen him playing 2 rounds ago at the same table as me so I know he plays storm, I win the die an after 6 turns he can go off and I kill him with all my creatures. On G2 he bolted my Scavenging Ooze and a Qasali deals with one Pyromancer ascension, then he could resolve a second Pyromancer and charge it, he bolted my Kitchen Finks and Anafenza but in response I cast a Collected company giving my a Cartel Aristocrat to letting me go to 4 trillions of live.
R5 vs Affinity (2-0) 12 points
First game I've done mulligan to 5 and my opponent to 4... a big easy games thanks to three Collected Company (one via Eternal Witness), game 2 he fulfill his board and on my second turn I cast Stony Silence that let him with only 1 mana and one etched champion, mnemite and ornithopter on board, abrupt decay to his signal pest and a double Collected Company let me combo off with Kitchen Finks and let me scry for Murderous Redcap.
R6 vs Infect (2-1) 15 points
Game 1 resumes with a Melira ETB via chord of calling to deal with a Inkmoth Nexus, game 2 resumes with turn 3 kill from infect and game 3 was a pretty God hand with 3 Lands, Melira, Path to Exile, Chord and Company. Turn 3 Melira with Path to Exile backup if he cast dismember makes me win.
R7 vs Jeskai Ascendancy (ID) 16 points
I've ended 5th so I've to play against the same Scapeshift that wons me on swiss.
Quarterfinals vs Scapeshift (2-0)
Game one I play creatures every turn to make pressure, with a Courser of Kruphix I can have an idea of which cards he has in hand at every moment and on critical turn I cast a Chord of Calling in order to search the Sac. Outlet that makes me win hopping that the unknown card wasn't a remand or a bolt, it wasn't so the combo starts.
Game 2 started with a turn 1 Thoughtseize that takes out a Negate from hand (He still have a Remand, Firespout and Snapcaster Mage)several turns later he uses his firespout, remand and caster so I can play a Collected Company that only give me a Voice of Resurgence, he's full tapped so I can cast a Stain the Mind, he didn't boarded his creatures so several turns later he concedes.
Semifinal vs Ad Nauseam (2-1)
On game one I've started with pressure on early turns, he didn't get all the pieces of combo so he concedes. Game two was very fast, turn four he resolves a Lotus Bloom, Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam I have no response so he wins. Game Three I remove the slaughter pact with my Sin collector so I can protect my Spellskite, He has two Lotus Bloom in board, I can deal with one via Qasali Pridemage but the second remains on board. My creatures where making some preasure but a tiny fail makes me lose that game while casting a Abrupt Decay on Lotus Bloom in response to a Peer Throught Depths using Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch makes me run out of blue mana, he casted a Lightning Storm that I've started redirecting to my Spellskite and a 1 life he discarded his last land and I can't response to it.
A bit bad luck for a very interesting tournament.
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Currently Playing:
- T2: UWB Esper Hero UR Phoenix UGB Steal-o-matic
- Modern: UR Storm WBG Vizier
*testing* WBG Astral Drift
I went 5-2 at SCG States yesterday, finishing in 13th place.
Round 1: Lost 2-1 to Burn. Gained infinite life in game 1 with him flooding. Game 3 mull to 5, saw no Finks.
Round 2: Beat UR Twin 2-0. They were grindy games, but he he saw no Exarchs or Pestermites in either game. =p
Round 3: Beat UG Infect 2-0. Game 1, I had turn 2 Spellskite, followed by Abrupt Decay on his Blighted Agent, then Eternal Witness to get it back. Game 2, he led with Inkmoth on turn 1 and attacked with it on turn 2. I turn 2'd Melira. His Blighted Agents still got me to 5 with Become Immense, but Collected Company gave me the board presence to finish him.
Round 4: Beat Jeskai Twin 2-0. Game 1, he tapped out on his turn because of Voice of Resurgence, and I Redcapped him on my turn. Game 2, I got infinite life early and held up 2x Abrupt Decay and Slaughter Pact while we passed back and forth. I managed to get a couple Voice tokens and several creatures along with Gavony Township to start working through his three Wall of Omens, one Spellskite, and two Restoration Angels. Got him down to one Resto Angel and managed to fade his one-outer to Kiki-Jiki.
Round 5: Lost 2-1 to Jeskai Control. I won the first game in about 20 minutes after gaining infinite life with Melira, Finks, and Cartel Aristocrat, and then getting Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit a couple turns later to get infinite Bolster triggers to swing for lethal. Game 2, I mulled to 5, but he stuck on 3 lands for several turns. Eventually he caught up and ground me out with Celestial Colonnade with 5 minutes left in the round. Game 3, I was hurrying because of the time and with a bunch of people watching. I Thoughtseized him early and knew he had a Restoration Angel, but punted by not Abrupt Decaying his Vendilion Clique on my turn, so he was able to save it with Resto. Resto and Clique beats finished me off in turns.
Round 6: Drew in the mirror match, but opponent conceded to me. His version was more midrange oriented, while mine is more combo. I was able to gained infinite life and scry Chord of Calling to the top. I was pinched on mana with just four lands and only one black source. When my turn came around I was able to play two Birds of Paradise and then Chord for the Redcap kill. Game 2, was a long game. He went on the offense with a large Knight of the Reliquary and a Scavenging Ooze that was keeping my combo in check. My own Ooze was controlling his KoR and Eternal Witness. Eventually I was able to trade my Voice token for his Ooze, while my Anafenza the Foremost kept his combo in check. He finally drew Abrupt Decay for my Anafenza the Foremost, so with time running really low, I tried to find the combo with a Collected Company, but missed and he was able to kill me. There was no time left for a game 3, and a draw would eliminate us both from prizes, so he offered a concession.
Round 7: Won 2-0 vs. Bloom Titan. Game 1, on his turn 3, he was able to Pact for Primeval Titan, give it +4/0, and double strike. I Collected into an Eternal Witness to get back Collected Company and a Scavenging Ooze to chump block and go to 2 life. On my turn, I drew into Cartel Aristocrat, and Chorded into infinite life. Next turn, I Collected into infinite Bolsters to win. Game 2, I Thoughtseized a Summoner's Pact, leaving a Pact of Negation he couldn't pay for and Engineered Explosives. He played EE on his turn but only had one mana, so I was able to Abrupt Decay it. With him drawing blanks, I was able to beat down for the win.
Its the best deck in the format. I haven't seen anything demonstrating the contrary.
Also, blasting station is actually a solid card. Kills a lot of dudes in the format and gives some insurance against removal heavy decks, and wins the game with any persister and any Melira.
One thing I haven't seen brought up or mentioned, when you have infinite scry, you literally know the order of your deck, by scrying and bottoming every card. So you can scry to a Collected Company with 2 combo pieces beneath it (or respond to the CC with inf scry). This is more important in builds that still use Safehold Elite, but also very important when infinite life doesn't win.
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Wouldn't Altar of the Brood or Impact Tremors offer some alternative win-cons that also aren't as easy to deal with pre-board? (could also be used post board to confuse people)
They can't be tutored for with Chord of Calling and can't be cheated in with Collected Company (unless you run Trinket Mage for Altar, and even then, you can't Flash in an Altar in response to removal on a combo piece). They also can't be pumped with Gavony Township. Especially since this deck actually has an aggro plan that works, I'll pass on them.
Wouldn't Altar of the Brood or Impact Tremors offer some alternative win-cons that also aren't as easy to deal with pre-board? (could also be used post board to confuse people)
They can't be tutored for with Chord of Calling and can't be cheated in with Collected Company (unless you run Trinket Mage for Altar, and even then, you can't Flash in an Altar in response to removal on a combo piece). They also can't be pumped with Gavony Township. Especially since this deck actually has an aggro plan that works, I'll pass on them.
I agree with Lectrys here. If we're going to run Blasting station or Impact Tremors or the like, we might as well just run a few Blood Artist. He gets hit by Chord/Company/Fauna Shaman...
I agree that Blood Artist is probably bad. I was just saying that it's still better than those other options.
I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the lines of play vs various common opponents.
i.e. How do you play vs twin? What sideboard cards are effective? Etc.
And so on for junk, affinity, burn, tron, bloom, etc...
I don't have time to go through all the matchups, but I've been playing a lot against twin with both junk, birthing pod and also Melira company, so I can probably provide some help for that particular matchup.
Against twin the cards you want to see in your opener are a at least one of either voice, spellskite, chord, collected company, removal and/or qasali in addition to a manadork and lands of course. Depending on your list your odds should be quite good for this to be the case. You need to have a turn 1 or at least turn 2 play, and if you're on the play you can even commit a threat to the board turn 3. If you have a choice between collected company and a creature or two, I'd rather wait with the company until he has 3 mana in order to represent removal. The same goes for chord obviously. Due to the deck being able to win and operate at instant speed, it feels the matchup against twin has improved slightly from before.
As for sideboarding, you should assume that your opponent is bringing in blood moons and probably a batterskull or keranos and if they're good they might also take in a dispel (some lists run 2). If they saw a spellskite turn 1 they'll take in ancient grudge for sure. It could then be wise to actually leave spellskite out if you have removal to replace it with (note chord becomes significantly worse if you do this). Some lists also run anger of the gods in the sideboard(the avg is 0.9 on avg on mtgtop8), which is probably the best card against this deck. Personally I bring in 2 reclamation sages, a burrenton-forge tender and orzhov pontiff in addition to extra removal and thoughtseizes (numbers differ when on play/draw). Sin collector might also be an option when on the play at least. I think it's a tad bit slow on the draw if you don't get a manadork. If it misses it's not too bad, as you get to see their hand which is valuable anyway, but a freshly drawn or flashbacked electrolyze makes 1 toughness guys a bit risky. How much you sideboard in and out depends on if you're on the play or on the draw. On the play blood-moon is less threatening and we can be the aggressor and still go for the combo. On the draw I think the combo is less likely to pan out and blood moon is much more backbreaking. I thus sideboard out Anafenzas (due to difficult casting cost) and bring in more disruption. Since you're likely siding in a large number of 3-drops, some number of finks might have to go as well and probably a viscera seer or two. If you can beat blood moon and batterskull and not get blown out by anger I think your beatdown plan is better than theirs so it should be possible to win without the combo.
I think most twin players would still consider us weak to their combo after board, and I don't think they'll go down on combo-pieces, but possibly go down on remands or cantrips (like probe/peek) or other disruption. This makes the sideboarded games quite draw-dependent. If they get a hand with lightning bolt and blood moon, it could spell trouble if they're on the play, but if you can play around bloodmoon, either by being able to fetch both turn 1 and turn 2 (or simply have basics in your opener) and maybe land a dork, or have at least access to forest and get to play a reclamation sage or a qasali (they probably won't play a moon while qasali is on the board, giving you time to fetch for more basics). An option which doesn't work that well in practice is to not play anything turn 2 and have abrupt decay up. If a turn 3 blood moon is game then you might just have to do it, but you might just end up loosing in the long run anyway if they don't play blood moon and just plan to play deciever or something and you just wasted your whole turn and then can't do anything the next turn either. If they do end up playing blood moon, you're likely favored to win from there however as you then can safely deploy a 2 or 3 mana-threat like loxodon smiter/Knight of the reliquary/finks/voice or whatever floats your boat(goyf maybe?) that they'll have to deal with somehow and you can sit on removal while deploying cheaper threats, or at least represent removal and play chord/companys to get ahead on board or get a spellskite to stop them going off.
I haven't tested the matchup more than a couple of times, but as in most matchups, the draw and the skill of the pilot matters most, which is another way of saying not too far from 50/50. If your list is tuned and you play well and don't just draw lands or mulligan into oblivion I think the matchup is favorable. Likewise if your opponent is better than you and doesn't mulligan and doesn't hit his 6th and 7th land drop you're probably losing.
I consider twin to be a slightly favorable matchup with my list. I board in Burrenton Forge-tenders, Path to Exiles, a second Spellskite, Qasali Pridemage, Reclamation Sage, and 3 Thoughtseizes. Naturally, boarding in ten cards is a lot, but my list has a lot of cards that can be boarded out as well. The cards I remove are: 1 Doran, the Siege Tower, 1 Anafenza, the Foremost, 1 Kitchen Finks, 1 Collected Company, 1 Flickerwisp(it can stop the combo with Chord but overall is underwhelming), 1 Birds of Paradise, 1 Noble Hierarch(mana dorks are worse against the Electrolyze deck and Blood Moon is super easy to play against), 1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit or 1 Scavenging Ooze(Scooze is better against Snapcaster, Anafenza is worse against Blood Moon), 1 Vault of the Archangel(I'll never activate it against Twin and I'm lowering my curve slightly) and 1 Eternal Witness (the card is often too slow, but I always want one in the deck postboard against anyone). The basic plan is to leave up Gavony Township as our best card in the matchup. Enchantment hate is mostly for Blood Moon. Boarding out most of my cards that survive Anger of the Gods means I need to have access to my Forge-Tenders. Loxodon Smiters are also fantastic. We're definitely the beatdown here.
Junk is a very, very difficult matchup to lose. We flood the board with creatures, they lack mass removal (usually, though I have sometimes seen Drown in Sorrow). Don't make the mistake of boarding in Thoughtseize as the hands are empty a large percentage of the time. Loxodon Smiters are obviously amazing. I board in Fulminators (for manlands and to occasionally keep them off Rhino mana) and Paths, and board out cards that give less value (Doran, some mana dorks).
Affinity is slightly favorable game 1 and it gets a bit better game 2 when I bring in the second Spellskite and Kataki. Melira turns off Inkmoth Nexus entirely, Doran turns off Cranial Plating and Signal Pest.
Bloom Titan is highly unfavorable game 1 and somewhat favorable game 2. I board in Thoughtseizes, Paths, Fulminators, Pridemage, and Reclamation Sage. I leave in all of the mana dorks in this matchup because turn 2 Fulminator is our best chance.
Burn is one of our best matchups. I board in forge-tenders and Spellskite, as well as a Qasali Pridemage.
Tron is our worst matchup. Against R/G Tron I board in Fulminators, Thoughtseizes, Forge-tenders, and some artifact removal for Oblivion Stone, while I board out Spellskite and slower creatures.
Thanks for the matchup analysis and sideboard thoughts guys.
I finally got in all the remaining cards to make my deck more midrange, and then tested it at a casual/playtesting modern night last night.
Mid-range is soooo much better. Actually having main deck answers was awesome - and I never felt like I was really slowing down the combo all that much. At any rate, I won 12/12 games last night vs - Junk, UW Control, and Soul Sisters. I'm excited to take this to our next modern tourney.
I have the Rancor and Smiters in the side to bring the beats in games 2-3 if they have too much combo hate.
Forge-tender is solely there for Anger of the Gods - that card shuts us down so hard. The rest are pretty self-explanatory. I am considering taking out the Scooze and putting in a couple Meddling Mage. Thoughts on that?
Some notes:
-I comboed out for life a lot last night; only once for damage.
-The deck forces people to blow their removal on everything (I didn't get to search once with fauna shaman). There's only a couple creatures that are okay for them to let live (like witness).
-One game, I couldn't get any combo pieces so I just beat down with a couple finks and birds pumped repeatedly by Gavony Township.
-Sculler was a house. A couple times, I got to sacrifice him before resolving so the cards stay removed permanently.
-Domri Rade and Courser of Kruphix are mostly in for fun/seeing how they work. Didn't draw Domri once all night though. And only saw courser once (he drew a double bolt for me). Any thoughts on them? If they shouldn't be in here, what would you replace them with? (maybe one more fiend hunter and one more pridemage?)
-And finally, Collected Company is such a house. I was never sad to see it. And the game generally ended a turn or two after casting the first one. Company into witness to get it back is crazy. And switching to midrange (with a greater diversity of creatures) makes it much better than it was in the all-in deck - I would often get two of the same combo pieces before...now it's all options.
Anyway. Hope you enjoyed. Thanks for steering me towards this decklist. Can't wait to start putting up some results.
Whoa! I somehow totally overlooked the madness on big game Hunter when I was evaluating him earlier.
That is sweet. I might bring him in over fiend hunter.
Fiend hunter or big game hunter do not really bring anything to the board (they are 1/x). Why do you not play flickerwisp instead ? I agree that is a temporary solution (instead of a permanent one) but it is more versatile (it targets permanents) and is a 3/x with evasion.
Flickerwisp is a great idea. Especially with the evasion and Attack power, but I don't know if this deck wants temporary solutions to problem permanents. I'm much more comfortable killing those huge Goyfs/Rhinos/Tasigurs than merely bouncing them. Especially rhino!
However, flickerwisp can be used to target our own permanents as well - removing the -1 counter from a Persist dude, gaining us life from finks, or snagging a bolster trigger.
I think that the one power of the other two isn't such a hindrance since we aren't relying on them to bring the beats, but to clear the way for our other creatures. Just like a removal spell. Plus, there's bilster triggers to consider (though those are bound to be much more effective with flying...)
Hmm. Good suggestion.
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When sideboarding in 3-4 thoughtseizes to combat fast combo decks like bloom titan, is it correct to board out some amount of collected company since you will be lowering your creature count anyway?
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
I just got back from a small local tournament and have some thoughts for you Zetsu.
Match One (win) - Played a Bloodghast Reanimator. Comboed out for infinite life turn 4, he scooped. Next, comboed out for life on turn three, and infinite damage turn four.
Match Two (loss) - splinter control countered all my threats and comboed out on turn 6ish. Then beat me down with batter skull, countering my Pridemages. Almost still pulled out that second game, but the disruption kept me from getting the third combo piece.
Match Three (loss) - red tron - got wrecked by multiple anger of the gods and pyroclasms destroying and exiling my combo pieces. Lost to a turn 7 Emrakul and then a turn four Ugin.
So. As I've suspected, the all-in combo version of the deck is very strong against "fair" decks, but it gets outclassed by the other tiered combo decks of the format.
Hopefully the rest of my cards will arrive this week and I'll join the midrange darkside.
I like both lists a lot. Quite a few people built the deck after it made up 50% of our top 4 last week at TCGplayer States despite having only two pilots in the tournament.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
3 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Viscera Seer
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Spellskite
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Blood Artist
1 Garza's Assassin
2 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
3 Thoughtseize
2 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Imposing Sovereign
2 Mark of Asylum
2 Stony Silence
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric (Running a Kor Firewalker for this tournament)
1 Sin Collector
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Stain the Mind
The tournament was this way.
R1 vs Scapeshift (1-2) 0 points
First round and a fairly good match but a bit unlucky.
R2 vs Eggs (Sunny Side Up) (2-0) 3 points
A newbie player with a hard deck to play.
R3 vs Burn (2-1) 6 points
I'll lose the first game, the second game resumes in T2 Kor Firewalker, third game resumes in I play creatures and he boltes/chumblockes all of my creatures, then with empty board double Kitchen Finks via collected company wins the game.
R4 vs Storm (2-0) 9 points
I've seen him playing 2 rounds ago at the same table as me so I know he plays storm, I win the die an after 6 turns he can go off and I kill him with all my creatures. On G2 he bolted my Scavenging Ooze and a Qasali deals with one Pyromancer ascension, then he could resolve a second Pyromancer and charge it, he bolted my Kitchen Finks and Anafenza but in response I cast a Collected company giving my a Cartel Aristocrat to letting me go to 4 trillions of live.
R5 vs Affinity (2-0) 12 points
First game I've done mulligan to 5 and my opponent to 4... a big easy games thanks to three Collected Company (one via Eternal Witness), game 2 he fulfill his board and on my second turn I cast Stony Silence that let him with only 1 mana and one etched champion, mnemite and ornithopter on board, abrupt decay to his signal pest and a double Collected Company let me combo off with Kitchen Finks and let me scry for Murderous Redcap.
R6 vs Infect (2-1) 15 points
Game 1 resumes with a Melira ETB via chord of calling to deal with a Inkmoth Nexus, game 2 resumes with turn 3 kill from infect and game 3 was a pretty God hand with 3 Lands, Melira, Path to Exile, Chord and Company. Turn 3 Melira with Path to Exile backup if he cast dismember makes me win.
R7 vs Jeskai Ascendancy (ID) 16 points
I've ended 5th so I've to play against the same Scapeshift that wons me on swiss.
Quarterfinals vs Scapeshift (2-0)
Game one I play creatures every turn to make pressure, with a Courser of Kruphix I can have an idea of which cards he has in hand at every moment and on critical turn I cast a Chord of Calling in order to search the Sac. Outlet that makes me win hopping that the unknown card wasn't a remand or a bolt, it wasn't so the combo starts.
Game 2 started with a turn 1 Thoughtseize that takes out a Negate from hand (He still have a Remand, Firespout and Snapcaster Mage)several turns later he uses his firespout, remand and caster so I can play a Collected Company that only give me a Voice of Resurgence, he's full tapped so I can cast a Stain the Mind, he didn't boarded his creatures so several turns later he concedes.
Semifinal vs Ad Nauseam (2-1)
On game one I've started with pressure on early turns, he didn't get all the pieces of combo so he concedes. Game two was very fast, turn four he resolves a Lotus Bloom, Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam I have no response so he wins. Game Three I remove the slaughter pact with my Sin collector so I can protect my Spellskite, He has two Lotus Bloom in board, I can deal with one via Qasali Pridemage but the second remains on board. My creatures where making some preasure but a tiny fail makes me lose that game while casting a Abrupt Decay on Lotus Bloom in response to a Peer Throught Depths using Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch makes me run out of blue mana, he casted a Lightning Storm that I've started redirecting to my Spellskite and a 1 life he discarded his last land and I can't response to it.
A bit bad luck for a very interesting tournament.
- T2:
UWB Esper Hero
UR Phoenix
UGB Steal-o-matic
- Modern:
UR Storm
WBG Vizier
*testing* WBG Astral Drift
Round 1: Lost 2-1 to Burn. Gained infinite life in game 1 with him flooding. Game 3 mull to 5, saw no Finks.
Round 2: Beat UR Twin 2-0. They were grindy games, but he he saw no Exarchs or Pestermites in either game. =p
Round 3: Beat UG Infect 2-0. Game 1, I had turn 2 Spellskite, followed by Abrupt Decay on his Blighted Agent, then Eternal Witness to get it back. Game 2, he led with Inkmoth on turn 1 and attacked with it on turn 2. I turn 2'd Melira. His Blighted Agents still got me to 5 with Become Immense, but Collected Company gave me the board presence to finish him.
Round 4: Beat Jeskai Twin 2-0. Game 1, he tapped out on his turn because of Voice of Resurgence, and I Redcapped him on my turn. Game 2, I got infinite life early and held up 2x Abrupt Decay and Slaughter Pact while we passed back and forth. I managed to get a couple Voice tokens and several creatures along with Gavony Township to start working through his three Wall of Omens, one Spellskite, and two Restoration Angels. Got him down to one Resto Angel and managed to fade his one-outer to Kiki-Jiki.
Round 5: Lost 2-1 to Jeskai Control. I won the first game in about 20 minutes after gaining infinite life with Melira, Finks, and Cartel Aristocrat, and then getting Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit a couple turns later to get infinite Bolster triggers to swing for lethal. Game 2, I mulled to 5, but he stuck on 3 lands for several turns. Eventually he caught up and ground me out with Celestial Colonnade with 5 minutes left in the round. Game 3, I was hurrying because of the time and with a bunch of people watching. I Thoughtseized him early and knew he had a Restoration Angel, but punted by not Abrupt Decaying his Vendilion Clique on my turn, so he was able to save it with Resto. Resto and Clique beats finished me off in turns.
Round 6: Drew in the mirror match, but opponent conceded to me. His version was more midrange oriented, while mine is more combo. I was able to gained infinite life and scry Chord of Calling to the top. I was pinched on mana with just four lands and only one black source. When my turn came around I was able to play two Birds of Paradise and then Chord for the Redcap kill. Game 2, was a long game. He went on the offense with a large Knight of the Reliquary and a Scavenging Ooze that was keeping my combo in check. My own Ooze was controlling his KoR and Eternal Witness. Eventually I was able to trade my Voice token for his Ooze, while my Anafenza the Foremost kept his combo in check. He finally drew Abrupt Decay for my Anafenza the Foremost, so with time running really low, I tried to find the combo with a Collected Company, but missed and he was able to kill me. There was no time left for a game 3, and a draw would eliminate us both from prizes, so he offered a concession.
Round 7: Won 2-0 vs. Bloom Titan. Game 1, on his turn 3, he was able to Pact for Primeval Titan, give it +4/0, and double strike. I Collected into an Eternal Witness to get back Collected Company and a Scavenging Ooze to chump block and go to 2 life. On my turn, I drew into Cartel Aristocrat, and Chorded into infinite life. Next turn, I Collected into infinite Bolsters to win. Game 2, I Thoughtseized a Summoner's Pact, leaving a Pact of Negation he couldn't pay for and Engineered Explosives. He played EE on his turn but only had one mana, so I was able to Abrupt Decay it. With him drawing blanks, I was able to beat down for the win.
Also, blasting station is actually a solid card. Kills a lot of dudes in the format and gives some insurance against removal heavy decks, and wins the game with any persister and any Melira.
One thing I haven't seen brought up or mentioned, when you have infinite scry, you literally know the order of your deck, by scrying and bottoming every card. So you can scry to a Collected Company with 2 combo pieces beneath it (or respond to the CC with inf scry). This is more important in builds that still use Safehold Elite, but also very important when infinite life doesn't win.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
They can't be tutored for with Chord of Calling and can't be cheated in with Collected Company (unless you run Trinket Mage for Altar, and even then, you can't Flash in an Altar in response to removal on a combo piece). They also can't be pumped with Gavony Township. Especially since this deck actually has an aggro plan that works, I'll pass on them.
I agree with Lectrys here. If we're going to run Blasting station or Impact Tremors or the like, we might as well just run a few Blood Artist. He gets hit by Chord/Company/Fauna Shaman...
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Gavony Township
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Godless Shrine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
1 Swamp
CREATURES
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Viscera Seer
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Eternal Witness
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Spellskite
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Blood Artist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Collected Company
3 Chord of Calling
1 Congregation at Dawn
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Stain the Mind
2 Path to Exile
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
I personally though am working with this
4 Collected Company
4 Congregation at Dawn
2 Abrupt Decay
Creatures
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reveillark
1 Shriekmaw
1 Spellskite
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Murderous Redcap
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Viscera Seer
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Wall of Roots
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
3 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Woodland Cemetery
3 Gavony Township
1 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Tarmogoyf
The Ur-Dragon's Tyranny
Karador, Ghost of the Golgari
Niv-Mizzet, Izzet Mastermind
Thromok's Barbecue, Come Get Some!
Sedris's Hand of the Dead
Wort, the Queen of Boggarts
Rafiq, King of Jerkish Nature
Standard Decks
Jund Midrange
Narset 5 Color
Mono-Green Devotion
Naya Beasts
WR Burn
Modern Decks
Izzet Fiend
Affinity for Green
I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the lines of play vs various common opponents.
i.e. How do you play vs twin? What sideboard cards are effective? Etc.
And so on for junk, affinity, burn, tron, bloom, etc...
Against twin the cards you want to see in your opener are a at least one of either voice, spellskite, chord, collected company, removal and/or qasali in addition to a manadork and lands of course. Depending on your list your odds should be quite good for this to be the case. You need to have a turn 1 or at least turn 2 play, and if you're on the play you can even commit a threat to the board turn 3. If you have a choice between collected company and a creature or two, I'd rather wait with the company until he has 3 mana in order to represent removal. The same goes for chord obviously. Due to the deck being able to win and operate at instant speed, it feels the matchup against twin has improved slightly from before.
As for sideboarding, you should assume that your opponent is bringing in blood moons and probably a batterskull or keranos and if they're good they might also take in a dispel (some lists run 2). If they saw a spellskite turn 1 they'll take in ancient grudge for sure. It could then be wise to actually leave spellskite out if you have removal to replace it with (note chord becomes significantly worse if you do this). Some lists also run anger of the gods in the sideboard(the avg is 0.9 on avg on mtgtop8), which is probably the best card against this deck. Personally I bring in 2 reclamation sages, a burrenton-forge tender and orzhov pontiff in addition to extra removal and thoughtseizes (numbers differ when on play/draw). Sin collector might also be an option when on the play at least. I think it's a tad bit slow on the draw if you don't get a manadork. If it misses it's not too bad, as you get to see their hand which is valuable anyway, but a freshly drawn or flashbacked electrolyze makes 1 toughness guys a bit risky. How much you sideboard in and out depends on if you're on the play or on the draw. On the play blood-moon is less threatening and we can be the aggressor and still go for the combo. On the draw I think the combo is less likely to pan out and blood moon is much more backbreaking. I thus sideboard out Anafenzas (due to difficult casting cost) and bring in more disruption. Since you're likely siding in a large number of 3-drops, some number of finks might have to go as well and probably a viscera seer or two. If you can beat blood moon and batterskull and not get blown out by anger I think your beatdown plan is better than theirs so it should be possible to win without the combo.
I think most twin players would still consider us weak to their combo after board, and I don't think they'll go down on combo-pieces, but possibly go down on remands or cantrips (like probe/peek) or other disruption. This makes the sideboarded games quite draw-dependent. If they get a hand with lightning bolt and blood moon, it could spell trouble if they're on the play, but if you can play around bloodmoon, either by being able to fetch both turn 1 and turn 2 (or simply have basics in your opener) and maybe land a dork, or have at least access to forest and get to play a reclamation sage or a qasali (they probably won't play a moon while qasali is on the board, giving you time to fetch for more basics). An option which doesn't work that well in practice is to not play anything turn 2 and have abrupt decay up. If a turn 3 blood moon is game then you might just have to do it, but you might just end up loosing in the long run anyway if they don't play blood moon and just plan to play deciever or something and you just wasted your whole turn and then can't do anything the next turn either. If they do end up playing blood moon, you're likely favored to win from there however as you then can safely deploy a 2 or 3 mana-threat like loxodon smiter/Knight of the reliquary/finks/voice or whatever floats your boat(goyf maybe?) that they'll have to deal with somehow and you can sit on removal while deploying cheaper threats, or at least represent removal and play chord/companys to get ahead on board or get a spellskite to stop them going off.
I haven't tested the matchup more than a couple of times, but as in most matchups, the draw and the skill of the pilot matters most, which is another way of saying not too far from 50/50. If your list is tuned and you play well and don't just draw lands or mulligan into oblivion I think the matchup is favorable. Likewise if your opponent is better than you and doesn't mulligan and doesn't hit his 6th and 7th land drop you're probably losing.
Junk is a very, very difficult matchup to lose. We flood the board with creatures, they lack mass removal (usually, though I have sometimes seen Drown in Sorrow). Don't make the mistake of boarding in Thoughtseize as the hands are empty a large percentage of the time. Loxodon Smiters are obviously amazing. I board in Fulminators (for manlands and to occasionally keep them off Rhino mana) and Paths, and board out cards that give less value (Doran, some mana dorks).
Affinity is slightly favorable game 1 and it gets a bit better game 2 when I bring in the second Spellskite and Kataki. Melira turns off Inkmoth Nexus entirely, Doran turns off Cranial Plating and Signal Pest.
Bloom Titan is highly unfavorable game 1 and somewhat favorable game 2. I board in Thoughtseizes, Paths, Fulminators, Pridemage, and Reclamation Sage. I leave in all of the mana dorks in this matchup because turn 2 Fulminator is our best chance.
Burn is one of our best matchups. I board in forge-tenders and Spellskite, as well as a Qasali Pridemage.
Tron is our worst matchup. Against R/G Tron I board in Fulminators, Thoughtseizes, Forge-tenders, and some artifact removal for Oblivion Stone, while I board out Spellskite and slower creatures.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
I finally got in all the remaining cards to make my deck more midrange, and then tested it at a casual/playtesting modern night last night.
Mid-range is soooo much better. Actually having main deck answers was awesome - and I never felt like I was really slowing down the combo all that much. At any rate, I won 12/12 games last night vs - Junk, UW Control, and Soul Sisters. I'm excited to take this to our next modern tourney.
Here's the list I'm running now:
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Viscera Seer
1 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Murderous Redcap
2 Eternal Witness
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Fauna Shaman
4 Collected Company
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Domri Rade
Lands
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Horizon Canopy
4 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
2 Reflecting Pool
1 Gavony Township
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Rancor
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Eternal Witness
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
I have the Rancor and Smiters in the side to bring the beats in games 2-3 if they have too much combo hate.
Forge-tender is solely there for Anger of the Gods - that card shuts us down so hard. The rest are pretty self-explanatory. I am considering taking out the Scooze and putting in a couple Meddling Mage. Thoughts on that?
Some notes:
-I comboed out for life a lot last night; only once for damage.
-The deck forces people to blow their removal on everything (I didn't get to search once with fauna shaman). There's only a couple creatures that are okay for them to let live (like witness).
-One game, I couldn't get any combo pieces so I just beat down with a couple finks and birds pumped repeatedly by Gavony Township.
-Sculler was a house. A couple times, I got to sacrifice him before resolving so the cards stay removed permanently.
-Domri Rade and Courser of Kruphix are mostly in for fun/seeing how they work. Didn't draw Domri once all night though. And only saw courser once (he drew a double bolt for me). Any thoughts on them? If they shouldn't be in here, what would you replace them with? (maybe one more fiend hunter and one more pridemage?)
-And finally, Collected Company is such a house. I was never sad to see it. And the game generally ended a turn or two after casting the first one. Company into witness to get it back is crazy. And switching to midrange (with a greater diversity of creatures) makes it much better than it was in the all-in deck - I would often get two of the same combo pieces before...now it's all options.
Anyway. Hope you enjoyed. Thanks for steering me towards this decklist. Can't wait to start putting up some results.
That is sweet. I might bring him in over fiend hunter.
However, flickerwisp can be used to target our own permanents as well - removing the -1 counter from a Persist dude, gaining us life from finks, or snagging a bolster trigger.
I think that the one power of the other two isn't such a hindrance since we aren't relying on them to bring the beats, but to clear the way for our other creatures. Just like a removal spell. Plus, there's bilster triggers to consider (though those are bound to be much more effective with flying...)
Hmm. Good suggestion.