MTG Salvation

Quote from Gr4fi_ »

Hi all,

like most here I am addressing the currently very popular list by Corey. My question is: What is the win con, if Tasigur gets exiled (pathed esp.)?

I am playing vs UW control (mostly on the kitchen table but nonetheless) and it really bothers me that I have about 0 outs in that game. It feels like a 10 90 match-up. Any help would be appreciated. On top of my head this is about the list I am playing against: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-12-16-uw-control/
This match-up, although mopey non-meta "nonsense" is currently keeping me from really getting into that Grixis list - :(.

Thanks, in advance!

When playing against UW Control, with the Kitchen Finks build, you must take full value out of Kolaghan's Command and Snapcaster Mage.
YOur win conditions are Creeping Tar Pit and Tasigur. So bait their sources mid-game and slam tasigur once you're able to back it up with Countersquall and/or Snapcaster. The first tasigur is almost going to be exiled for sure, but UW Control decks just run 2-3 Snapcasters at much, so be sure to be efficient trading on the stack and you should be fine.
using Ancestral Vision gives you an initial advantage:
-To resolve AV you will have mana open on your upkeep so you can deny their counterspells on your AV, be sure you can resolve at least one AV.
-Their main CA engine is Sphinx's Revelation, while insanely powerful it's also insanely expensive. If you are able to counter it when you resolve an AV the same game, you are going to win.
-If they run Ancestral Vision, it's more important to be sure you are resolving yours than countering theirs, however if yours is resolved first, I recommend you to fight over it, so the card advantatge is bigger.
-Spell Snare is the most annoying card they can play against you.

Note I dont say to bolt - snap - bolt to death because the Finks+Resto package makes it hard to be burned, but also means you don't care about a Finks resolved most of time because it wont overcome your tasigurs, so counter Restoration if able, terminate colonnades, bolt/kolaghans the Vendillion's/Finks. Protect your threats with Countersqualls/snapcaster and that's how you overcome them. It's a value game.

Sideboard:
-Bring in ALL the Fulminator Mage you have. They are going to be a pain for them.
-Bring in Dispels/Negates
-You might bring in Surgical Extraction to slim their threats thought I am not the best fan of it (do it if you feel you are able to, or want to cut too many cards)
-Izzet Staticaster might be okay if you see they play 3x Vendillions and cards like Lone Misionary in the side board, since it will get tons of value, but wont be insane.

Cut:
-Ligthning bolts (at least 3 of them, Kolaghan's command kills the same threats than lightning bolt and has a lot more value)
-Enginereed Explosives since it's so dead as a card
-1-2 terminates (I want always 1 or 2 in because of threats like Resto/Colonande which are hard to deal if its not with Terminate (or Fulminator in the Celestial case))
- Up to 1 copy of Thought Scour if you really need the spot.

Note that you are okay with them countering Tasigurs/Fulminators etc as long as you can resolve Kolaghan's Command, which is insane.

Rest In Peace notes:
-It hurts but its not a nightmare at all:
--We can at worst hard cast Tasigur, the problem is it shutdowns our snapcasters and we run 4 while they run only 2. If you know he/she bringst it in normally against you, you might keep the Engineered Explosives, instead of cutting it.

I am not sure I am the best to give these advices but its what I usually do against UW and it worked pretty well. (3x times 1-0-1 against them and 1x time 1-1-0)

edit: srry for my bad english =( Not native

Hey, I just wanted to ask, how does this deck beat Krark-Clan Ironworks.dec? It seems like there's very little interaction to be had between this deck and Ironworks since they can just sac all their artifacts to Ironworks and keep going off with Faith's Reward/Open the Vaults. I heard that I need to pressure them early in the game, but that is easier said than done when the only creatures we run are Tasigur, Snapcaster Mage, Creeping Tar Pit, and Fulminator Mage in the board.

How do you guys side against goryo vengeance?

Hey so I play in a pretty heavy control meta, with decks like, jeskai, jeskai nahiri, jund, mardu control, then a few combo decks no real aggro to speak of, how would you adjust cory's list for this type of meta?

I don't think I would change it. Taking out any of the light removal like Bolt or Explosives is sketchy in case you run into something else and your Ancestral Vision + Kolaghan's Command package should help you grind pretty hard.

A Jace list managed to go 6-1 at a PTQ!

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/526737#online

Maindeck Liliana and no counter spells? That deck is so 2015. I do like it though. It looks like it could have a lot of game against Eldrazi and even Dredge.

I dont think you can approach lighthouse with the greedy manabase of grixis control and only 22 lands. I dont think it's wrong as 23rd one but not a huge fan of it, I would probably add 1 bloodstained mire before.
Also, not a fan of cutting AV main. The matchups I want it starting hand G1 are almost all of them, and drawing them midgame against slow decks is not that bad.

The Burkhart list relies pretty heavily on resolving one and doesn't mind drawing another later in the game (in most situations, which is why you can board them out later). I'm not a fan of going down to 3 since it's such an integral part of the current build.

I personally wouldn't play less than 4, you almost always want an AV to suspend turn 1. Loothouse does seem risky with 4 Cryptic, but you can try it.

Quote from Ym1r »

A Jace list managed to go 6-1 at a PTQ!

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/526737#online

Looks good but 1 tasigur seems strange to me.

Quote from Sxnr1se »

Guys, is somewhat wrong running 3 copies of AV instead of 4 in a Corey Burkhart's Grixis deck? I was thinking of shaving one to add something like a Clique or a Remand/Lyze/Kalitas/Liliana TLH.
Also, is running Loothouse risky with 22 lands?

Running a loothouse is hella risky with 22 lands, I would add v-clique since that deck plays at instant speed and it plays the izzet fastland, and 3 visions is fine.

What's your experience against Dredge with Corey's list? g1 seems almost impossible, but after board I always have the feeling that if I would have made one or two different plays I'd have had a shot. In the end, I usually just end up losing in 2 games. Has your experience been the same?

I win most times they dont go T2 1721336534265648 creatures on board and I hit surgicals (or a valuable anger of gods).
G1 is winneable with the "infinite" cryptic command loop and 1 tasigur or so, but not going to win it most of time.

I just recently built grixis control in MTGO, and my list has undergone a lot of changes as consequence of the online metagame. Right now it has very similar numbers to Corey's list, except no AVs still. I really wish I had had the opportunity to grind with this deck before the RPTQ I attended.

https://puu.sh/sSZH4/ae7beef990.png

For the heavy control meta I'm considering going a little more midrange. Cards that are currently slow but seem good against midrange/control:

• Electrolyze - just another way to keep the card advantage up and takes out all the Snaps and Bobs easily.
• Goblin Dark-Dwellers - Was really popular for a while, but died off due to being way too slow. Great against Jund.
• Pia and Kiran Nalaar - Gums up the board and is hard to remove effectively.

What other pieces of our past might be worth bringing back in for a midrange/control meta? I know it's hard to think of when other people spend all day playing against, Affinity, Death's Shadow and Burn, but in some local metas it's going to be the right call to change things up.

Remand should be your #1 choice

One or two Pack Rats somewhere in your 75 can give fair, grindy decks headaches. Especially if you're running AV. AV gives you extra cards to discard, and Pack Rat let's you turn unwanted AVs into threats.

Along with that and the aforementioned Pia and Kiran Nalaar, a Rise // Fall can give you some great value chains alongside the usual Snap/Kommand/Jace recursion suite.

Will this deck work with Bloodstained Mire and without Ancestral Vision?

Quote from Esgares1 »

Will this deck work with Bloodstained Mire and without Ancestral Vision?

Yes, I'm running it configured that way right now. The difference between Tarn and Mire/Strands is not the end of the world. You may lose an extra point of life or two but it works. If you don't have any Ancestral Vision just fill up the slots with other cards like Mana Leak, Remand, Spell Snare, Electrolyze.

I've been running 1 Negate, 2 PnK, 1 Steam vents in place of four AV. Eventually, I will acquire all four.