@finalnab, in the second scenario I would never pitch the last Ritual I have in the deck. Hardcasting Griselbrands vs a U Delver deck with Cryptic and Snapcaster is nigh impossible. Either, you are already dead, or he counters him for days :/
In theory, if you had 8 or more life, you could win in your clean-up step. You pitch everything but 1 SSG, 1 Goryo's, 5 lands. Due to the trigger from the Wurms, both players get priority again which allows you, after shuffling both Wurms into your deck, to draw your whole deck and than win with an easy reanimate on the now ditched Borbor.
This is a line I did regularly vs Control players to not let them untap but still "win" on my turn when I had no access to TTB mana.
Besides this, you did some great analysis of those cases, that you oversaw the obvious line in the first scenario is quite funny though
Greetings,
Kathal
during the cleanup step i can cast goryo's vengeance while the worldspine wurm shuffle trigger is on the stack or after shuffling the wurms in the library?
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
This is the last(!) instance of the Clean-up step. There are some corner cases, where you can abuse this in your favour, cause stuff like damage on creatures, effects which last until the end of your turn and similar things cease to exist.
This means, against ADN you can go off, force the Angel's Grace, go into the clean-up step, ditch a Wurm, get priority again and force the second one out. Then you let him untap and force the third one.
This is by far the easiest way to beat ADN, since the counter-play against this is having 3 Angle's Grace in hand + being able to cast them, which is more than unlikely (and even than, you can just do the same again in your next turn and force another 3 Angel's Graces, which is nigh impossible that he has it ).
Other option is just to chain draw and pitch Wurms to repeat this procedure.
Only problem: MODO has problems with the Clean-up step IIRC
Btw. full rules for the Clean-up step:
514.1 First, if the active player’s hand contains more cards than his or her maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to reduce his or her hand size to that number. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.2 Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.3 Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: And yes, I won because of these things already a couple of times ^^
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
This is the last(!) instance of the Clean-up step. There are some corner cases, where you can abuse this in your favour, cause stuff like damage on creatures, effects which last until the end of your turn and similar things cease to exist.
This means, against ADN you can go off, force the Angel's Grace, go into the clean-up step, ditch a Wurm, get priority again and force the second one out. Then you let him untap and force the third one.
This is by far the easiest way to beat ADN, since the counter-play against this is having 3 Angle's Grace in hand + being able to cast them, which is more than unlikely (and even than, you can just do the same again in your next turn and force another 3 Angel's Graces, which is nigh impossible that he has it ).
Other option is just to chain draw and pitch Wurms to repeat this procedure.
Only problem: MODO has problems with the Clean-up step IIRC
Btw. full rules for the Clean-up step:
514.1 First, if the active player’s hand contains more cards than his or her maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to reduce his or her hand size to that number. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.2 Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.3 Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: And yes, I won because of these things already a couple of times ^^
thanks kathal!..never tried that line of play before..appreciate the through explanation..more power to ya!
What would you do? He has literally not played any other spells in the first 3 turns. We can infer that he's had no sleight of hand/SV. We can infer that his hand's full of kill spells/rituals/remands/gifts. There's a nonzero chance he's going to EOT gifts, but we don't want to depend on that. Note that he played Baral on turn 2 and played nothing t3, so we can sort of infer that he doesn't have a rit+rit+Gifts hand, so perhaps their hand is more overweight on counterspells than the average hand. Then again, storm plays only 4 remands main deck (this is game 1). Should we just jam a Shoal splicing Vengeance?
Instead I would go the slow route (if he does nothing) and play temple into land into TTB on his end step. He has no clock (you will be at 15) and a Wurm will most likely result into a lethal attack.
If he goes for a Gifts, you can still go Goryo's into probably a win (cause of the Shoal + Wurm in your hand).
What I think his hand here is:
Remand, Gifts, land, Ritual, X, X
This means, he can always go Ritual into Gifts and keep Remand open. This might be a reason for me to no play the Temple next turn but instead the Mountain, so that you can recast the Goryo's
Basically:
- If he goes for an EoT Gifts without a Ritual, I will try to combo off
- If he goes for an EoT Rit into Gifts (and thus keeping 1 mana up) it depends on what the Gifts is grabbing (would wait here tbh)
- If he just passes and nothing happens, I will play Mountain next turn (to be able to play around one Remand) and than wait and see, if he goes for any EoT shenanigans.
Basically, wait and see is the approach I would take here. He has no clock (at least no real one) so we have time. Since I do not like to rush things when not necessary, I do not see even the need to go for something here, till he forces us to do something.
Note: Just realised, that you haven't played a land for the turn yet. I would play the Mountain and than pass. This way, you can play around a single Remand/Spell Pierce, even IF he goes for Rit into Gifts into Remand/Spell Pierce.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Instead I would go the slow route (if he does nothing) and play temple into land into TTB on his end step. He has no clock (you will be at 15) and a Wurm will most likely result into a lethal attack.
I think this is too dangerous against storm. We are under a virtual clock rather than a real clock, and given the likely texture of his hand
I think we have fewer turns left than not. For example, if they have gifts+ritual, all they need is another landdrop or another ritual and they are off to the races.
If he goes for a Gifts, you can still go Goryo's into probably a win (cause of the Shoal + Wurm in your hand). Agree
What I think his hand here is:
Remand, Gifts, land, Ritual, X, X as i alluded to above, if this is true, we are a turn away from dying. Landdrop->ritual (RRR), Gifts Ungiven (3 maana remaining, even if we given them Manamorphose+PiF they can go up to 4 maana and cast PiF with 1 mana remaining)
This means, he can always go Ritual into Gifts and keep Remand open. This might be a reason for me to no play the Temple next turn but instead the Mountain, so that you can recast the Goryo's
Basically:
- If he goes for an EoT Gifts without a Ritual, I will try to combo off agree
- If he goes for an EoT Rit into Gifts (and thus keeping 1 mana up) it depends on what the Gifts is grabbing (would wait here tbh) I think if we actually let Gifts resolve the game is already over on the spot/next turn. please correct me if this is wrong but if they grab a bunch of mana and PiF I have a hard time seeing them not winning next turn
- If he just passes and nothing happens, I will play Mountain next turn (to be able to play around one Remand) and than wait and see, if he goes for any EoT shenanigans.
Basically, wait and see is the approach I would take here. He has no clock (at least no real one) so we have time. Since I do not like to rush things when not necessary, I do not see even the need to go for something here, till he forces us to do something.
Note: Just realised, that you haven't played a land for the turn yet. I would play the Mountain and than pass. This way, you can play around a single Remand/Spell Pierce, even IF he goes for Rit into Gifts into Remand/Spell Pierce.
Greetings,
Kathal
Some thoughts below. I may be misevaluating Storm's kill potential, but I thinking back I would drop a mountain, cast a Vengeance, then recast a Vengeance if it gets remanded and try to go off. I think the upside of waiting realistically is minimal and the downside is deadly.
So, I've been away from Grishoalbrand since they changed the rules to kill the expertise version, but thought it would be fun to get back at it. Is there a current consensus on the best version of the deck? I'm looking back though old posts, but can be a bit much to sort through. I'd like to at least start with the 'best' version. If anyone has the time to give me a quick catch up lesson, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks!
I missed the open land drop. However, I would never play a Goryo's into open mana. If he has any combination of two counter spells (many of them are playing Spell Pierce MD which makes it worse), he can just untap and win.
Heck, if the opponent knows, what he is doing, he can just Remand the Shoal and not the Goryo's, which forces you to find an awkward win with less cards to draw, to say it this way.
The only reason, WHY I would jam it now is, that you are on 17 life. This means only three draw sevens of the Shoal you have in your hand and the need to find Shoal + Wurm in 21 cards.
So yeah, I would wait. If he does nothing for another 2 turns, I would go TTB Wurm, otherwise try to go off, when he is low on mana.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I believe Storm lists have been moving away from main deck interaction and have been going for a streamlined 60. Part of the reason why I thought it'd be a good idea to jam Vengeance (agree, would not Shoal+Vengeance here) was because I thought storm lists are only playing remands in the main deck.
I looked through the last 2 weeks-ish worth of Storm lists. Very minimal permission mainboard (only remands, no pierces/dispels/negates/swan songs in the 60). I'm surprised a lot of lists are even going below 4 remands.
Given the lack of hard counters, and the perceived proximity to a kill for the Storm player, I now think the best move is to play a mountain and jam a Vengeance, with the plan to re-jam the Vengeance again if Remanded, logic being that they must be close to a kill given the first 3 turns, lack of hard counters in main decks of storm lists nowadays, and you can jam Vengeance twice with a full shoal in hand. Agree that shoal splicing Vengeance is by far the worst option of all (brainfart..) What do you think?
I just do not see the merit, when we have the option to win at instant speed ESPECIALLY when we have 2 mana floating (cause no need to replay a potentially countered Goyro's).
Sure, I yolo slam the combo also quite regularly, however, when I have everything set-up I ALWAYS try to play around as much possible interaction as possible. I won once, cause I played around a Psionic Blast out of Merfolk just because I played around this.
Stuff like this made me very cautious, when I can actually afford it.
And in this specific case, you can afford to wait. You can Wurm in two turns, if the opponent still does nothing (which should be lethal on it's own). If he goes low on Mana, it means basically, that he presses F6 against us.
Heck, even in the worst case of Ritual + Ritual + Gifts (in his main phase) leaves him with 1 mana post PiF which means after the flashback Ritual he has no mana floating and thus gives us a window to combo off safely.
I might be wrong here, but this is how I would approach every scenario like this. Play it safe, if you can afford it, press the petal to the metal, if you need to.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
you make a good point there that I hadn't fully appreciated. if he has just a land, rit and gifts he can generate just enough to pif with 1 mana left, which gives us the perfect window on his first ritual post pif
if he has no lands but two rits and gifts i dont believe such a window exists. double rit (RRRRRR) tap the second land for U and gifts ( 1 land untapped and RRRR), give him phose and pif, pif (1 land and R) then he can start flashing back a rit with an open land.
I do wonder if the first point is enough to tilt towards waiting. the reason i hesitate is because breaching a wurm is likely a 2 turn clock that can be started in one turn, which is too late more often than not vs storm. i could very much see waiting until his end step and vengeancing twice now as the best move now though
Play a Mountain, pass, if he does nothing in your endstep let him untap. If he wants to combo off in his turn you can still combo off in response (just do it when something is on the stack, otherwise you might run into a Grapeshot problem (denying you draws)).
If he just untaps and attacks with Baral again, Goryo's Griseldaddy into the game and block Baral. If he has a Remand here, you can say okay and do the same thing again (or just wait to play around any counter-spell he might have).
This will allow you to go off in his Endstep in response to the Goryo's trigger OR right there in the combat phase. Just don't do it, when he can cast Sorceries, cause it can get quite awkward.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
So, I've been away from Grishoalbrand since they changed the rules to kill the expertise version, but thought it would be fun to get back at it. Is there a current consensus on the best version of the deck? I'm looking back though old posts, but can be a bit much to sort through. I'd like to at least start with the 'best' version. If anyone has the time to give me a quick catch up lesson, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks!
Since close to nobody plays the deck currently, there is no agreed upon best version. All of them have some form of twists in there, which some other player might disagree with.
However, the best VERSION is the BR All in one (at least currently in this meta). This is one of the more standard MD versions:
For the SB those are basically the current Core cards (although, some can argue, that Blood Moon is unnecessary currently).
Otherwise you need some form of Sweepers in the SB and Artefact hate.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: For example, my list has a different MD:
-1 Blackcleave Cliffs, -1 Desperate Ritual, -1 Manamorphose, -1 Catharic Reunion
+1 Geier's Reach Sanctury, +1 Night's Whisper, +1 Soul Spike, +1 Read the Bones
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Thanks Kathal,
I played Amat's version last night at FNM and went 3:1 (Wins: Zoo, Dtron, UW control, Loss: Abzan Shadow). It's pretty close to that list. It was a blast and people kept gathering around to watch my matches. I was a bit rusty and took a turn or two longer to win a couple matches, but still got there. While I do think the deck is relatively poorly position currently, it is still super fun to play and still can get free wins. There is just so much GY hate and surgical especially that I think right now it is more of a fun choice than a good one.
My meta has a ton of eldrazi tron where a quick blood moon slows them down enough to be worth it, I think. I do think Boseiju is weak right now since the control decks are running a lot of land hate and it comes in tapped. Smart players will just save some sort of LD for it. I'm a fan of EE and shattering spree or shatterstorm, as there is a lot of affinity and artifact based hate. I wonder if we want Thoughtseize again to help with surgical in particular, since short of pact I don't see any other good way to deal with it.
Anyway it was definitely fun to play again. I wish people would stop attacking GYs so I could feel good about playing it at 'real' tournaments.
Play Chalice of the Void! I lost to Surgicals until I started playing Chalices, and then hand disruption and Surgicals stopped being as big of a problem. It's not a hard answer but often buys you time and the tech is relatively undiscovered.
Is Chalice pretty much a necessity now? I don't want to drop $140-210 for just a sideboard card. This is the list I'm running now and I have yet to take a match off Grixis DS.
Play a Mountain, pass, if he does nothing in your endstep let him untap. If he wants to combo off in his turn you can still combo off in response (just do it when something is on the stack, otherwise you might run into a Grapeshot problem (denying you draws)).
If he just untaps and attacks with Baral again, Goryo's Griseldaddy into the game and block Baral. If he has a Remand here, you can say okay and do the same thing again (or just wait to play around any counter-spell he might have).
This will allow you to go off in his Endstep in response to the Goryo's trigger OR right there in the combat phase. Just don't do it, when he can cast Sorceries, cause it can get quite awkward.
Greetings,
Kathal
yea, i think that may be the best way to go. I just respect Storms' ability to win from nowhere, but maybe too much. I think we should plan to Vengeance if they tap out on our End Step for Gifts and combo off, or plan to double Vengeance on their end step if they do not combo off. if they do try, we can try and find a clean spot to combo in response
Played in a 46 person PPTQ today at Connection Games with Grishoalbrand. I thought long and hard about playing Grixis Shadows but reasoned that there are enough favorable tier 1 matchups out there (burn, Valakut, UW control, Tron variants) that we could still do well if we can dodge Grixis Shadows, which is roughly a 20/80 matchup, on par with the old infect matchups (more on that later). Would appreciate some sideboard comments as well as some of the choices were pretty out there.
*3rd Desperate Ritual MD: I found Cathartic Reunion pretty unimpressive (although necessary). I added the Desperate Ritual for additional acceleration and additional ritual when trying to combo off from a tight spot and found it much more impressive than the 4th Hug.
*2 Collective Brutality SB: This kills against Burn but is mediocre in other spots. I still like having them as direct swaps for the Hugs against counterspell decks and is OK vs control decks and combo while double as discard outlets. I could see myself replacing 1 for a Lightning Axe, which is kind of in a great spot right now
*Chalices and Blood Moon SB: there are so many matchups where these hate pieces are 1 hit KOs that I would not leave home without these in this metagame. I would have 3 Chalices but the third was not there due to availability.
*Bontu's Last Reckoning: This sweeper kills in the matchups where we want them. We struggle mightily against fast aggro decks, and usually the non-untap clause is irrelevant in these matchups as their hand should be nearly empty in these matchups by the time we cast them. Have love it so far. Plus, it's not unreasonable for us to cast this on turn 3 and combo via land+SSG+Vengeance
*No Boseiju SB: Think this is an outdated tech. Matchups with counterspells that we'd want this in (UW/Jeskai control, merfolk) have a mixture of spreading seas, GQ and Tec Edges that, with its enter tapped clause, renders Boseiju more ineffective than not. I'd play a third Pact over Boseiju.
Gameday:
My gameplan was simple:
*Hope to see Valakuts, Colonnades and Urza's Mines
*Hope to dodge Steam Vents and Watery Graves
I greet my r1 opponent and he leads on watery grave untapped, Thoughtseize me
well ****
Round 1 vs. Grixis Shadows
This is an awful matchup, and may be worse than what Infect was. They have a fast clock, proactive disruption and reactive disruption. Their deck was built to prey on spell-based combo like this.
G1 sees him do usual Grixis Shadows thing and shred my hand/beat me down with 1 mana 7/7s
The matchup is dire and my sideboarding show it. I think the best way to win is to cheese them out with turn 1 SSG+chalice or t2 Moon. Breaches are cut a lot of the times we are dead/effectively dead before we reach 5 mana. Not really sure if this is right but dire situations call for radical solutions
G2 I keep a hand with cantrips and turn 2 Blood Moon so I keep and cross my fingers. He lays a turn Watery Grave untapped and I'm praying it's a t1 SV or Scour but of course it is the discard and he takes away my Moon. We play draw-go for a while, with him casting nary a spell on turn 2/3, which is quite alarming. I suspect his hand must be a bunch of Denials, Terminates, Snapcasters and/or Extractions. On around turn 5 he goes down to 11, casts a SV but declines to cast a shadow or a threat. He passes to me with 2 Graves and 1 Crypt untapped and no counterspells in his graveyard. My graveyard has a Borborygmos and my hand is Vengeance, Vengeance, Breach and SSG and I have 4 lands in play. I reason that things will only get worse for me and thought this to be the best opening for me to make something happen.
My plan is to bluff Breach EOT, and try to resolve a Vengeance on Borborygmos on my main step, which would play around 1 counterspell and 1 extraction.
I could have waited to draw a threat to breach, but my read on the texture of his hand was pretty strong. I cast a Breach on his End Step with no creatures in hand and pitching SSG, which was met by stubborn denial. I untap, Vengeance my Borborygmos, he Extractions, I Vengeance for the second time and reanimate Borborygmos, but it meets a Terminate. I die a horrible death but I still think it was right to "go for it"
0-1 (0-2)
Round 2 vs. Cat Tribal Home Brew
The round 2 opponent was a nice dude who just started modern a month ago. I was pretty sure he was on his homebrew with embalm and eternalize. Turns out he made the deck himself and was quite emphatic about making it better which I think is great. Unfortunately for him he watches me turn 3 him twice.
1-1 (2-0)
Round 3 vs. Vizier Coco
G1 I have a Looting, Griselbrand, Vengeance and lands and everything goes as you would expect
Sideboarding: +2 Brutality +1 Kozilek's Return +2 Last Reckoning -1 Ritual -2 Reunion -1 Through the Breach -1 Temple of Malice
Cutting a breach is becoming a theme for me, but I find it necessary vs decks I deem to be faster on average than us (Storm, Vizier coco, affinity come to mind). A lot of these games I cut a land on the draw, and Temple is the land of choice because coming into play tapped can be a hindrance in racing situations
G2 I keep a hand with 1 land, Griselbrand, SSG, Vengeance, Shoal, Wurm. A picture-perfect hand on the draw. His turn 2 consists of him playing out a Devoted Druid. Mine consists of me binning Griselbrand to handsize. Turn 3 he immediately plays a Vizier and I am forced to combo instant-speed via 1 land+SSG. Because I already used 1 SSG and 1 Ritual mana is a real constraint and I more or less fizzle through 35 cards, but I can SSG+SSG+Ritual to Kozilek's Return his Druid before Vizier resolves. I kill him next turn.
Through the comboing he was giving me the bored look and after the game, he told me word for word that "that was by far the worst game of magic I had to play. Your deck sucks dude"
*shrug*
2-1 (2-0)
Round 4 vs. Affinity
From scouting, I already knew he was on Affinity. I planned on mulliganing appropriately.
G1 he was on the play and mulligans to 6. His start is somewhat anemic with just drum, skirge and Pests. I have a fairly nutty hand with Looting, Griselbrand and Vengeance and win turn 3
Sideboarding:+2 Shattering Spree +1 Kozilek's Return +1 Engineered Explosives (not sure about this, may be too slow and honestly not good enough in the matchup) +1 Last Reckoning -2 Through the Breach -1 Temple -1 Ritual -1 Night's Whisper
Logic for cutting breach is the same: Affinity is faster than us and more consistent than us so on average, we are unlikely to be able to cast a breach. The main way where we can get to that scenario is by drawing one of our sideboard sweepers.
G2 he has a Pest+Ravager opening but otherwise has nothing else but Nexi through turn 3. I theorize that his hand is full of colored spells. I Last Reckoning away his board. He rebuilds into Pest+Nexus and I KReturn away his board. He has 3 cards in hand for the longest time so he may have Galvanic Blast, RIP and/or Spell Pierces, but no colored sources. I eventually get there at my pace and he shows me a Master, RIP and Galvanic Blast.
3-1 (2-0)
Round 5 vs. Naya Zoo
I've see him around at the store and he plays all sort of random decks which is great. Fortunately I sat beside him a few times and know he's on some sort of Naya Zoo variant this week.
G1 I see a Voice of Resurgence and Renegade Rallier before I combo off. Not much to say here
Sideboarding: +2 Bontu's Last Reckoning +1 Kozilek's Return +1 Engineered Explosives (RIP may be a thing and a lot of his threats should be cmc=2 with potential goyfs/thalias) -2 Night's Whisper -1 Ritual -1 Hug
G2 he slams a t2 Thalia and that interferes with my hand enough. I die on 3 landss and a Last Reckoning plus Kozilek's Return in hand. I also note a turn 1 Tormod's Crypt
G3 I keep lands, shoal, wurm, looting and Vengeance. he slams a t2 Thalia again but I find another looting and bin a Griselbrand in the first two turns. He taps out to play creatures on t3 and I'm clear to Vengeance back my Griselbrand t3. Without untapped lands and SSG, this is going to be hard. I end up going through all 4 SSGs to shoal and sculpt the perfect hand with him at 12: 4 lands, Bontu's Last Reckoning, Goryo's Vengeance (Borborygmos in the GY) and Borborygmos. I have 11 cards left in the deck and have only drawn 1 Breach. So I figured even if he topdecks a crypt I can Last Reckoning his board away, draw a breach and breach in my borborygmos.
He just attacks me next turn and I think I make a potentially fatal mistake here. He has a Nacatl and Rallier and I reanimate Borborygmos with him at 8 life. I attack before throwing lands for some reason (he was tapped out and had a thalia so not sure what I was playing around). He blocks with both and I verbally fumble around my intent to throw lands before combat damages. We have a 10 minute judge discussion where I think it was deemed I said something to the effect of "ok go to damages, then activate Borborygmos", which of course can't happen when he's dead. Judge asked me and I explained my intent to throw lands before damages and he allowed me to do so rather than let the combat damages kick in. I'd done this hundreds of times that I made a mental shortcut error here and was lucky I did not get punished..
4-1 (2-0)
Going into the sixth and last round, I am the 9th and final 4-1'er - my round 1 opponent seems to have dropped out, which is super unfortunate. We are forced to play out the last round. We are called to the feature match area and play on stream. I think to myself that this is an exciting opportunity to top 8 a PPTQ and as long as I can avoid another 10/90 matchup and get to play Magic I'll be happy.
My opponent goes t1 Overgrown Tomb, t2 Overgrown Tomb into Plague Stinger
well ****
Round 6 vs. GB Infect
They told me Infect was dead!!! This may be on par with Grixis Shadows as the worst matchup for the deck. They are significantly faster and significantly more consistent. game 1 I am going to need to get super lucky and in sideboarded games I need to cheese them out.
G1 he plays the Stinger t2. I immediately panic and my hand of Shoal/lands/Borborygmos/Vengeance/Manamorphose doesn't look so good. On my turn 2 I decide to discard Borborygmos to hand size. I don't have a great plan though because t3 he plays a Inkmoth. He attacks with Stinger, I declare no blocks and he plays a Groundswell with a Tomb and an Inkmoth up. I tank for a while and don't see a good solution. If I Vengeance, he can Blossoming Defense/Vines in response and completely waste my Borborygmos. I end up not playing Vengeance, with the plan to reanimate and throw two lands at the Stinger only if he goes for a second pump spell. He doesn't and I take 5 infect. End step I Vengeance a Borborygmos and throw a land, only to be met by a Blossoming Defense. I throw my second land at it and kill it. I still don't have a solution to the Inkmoth and die a horrible death a few turns later
My lack of reps vs. Infect showed up here. I should've brought in my Blood Moon because it's effectively a kill spell vs. their Nexi as well as potentially hosing their colors/Pendlehaven.
G2 I land an early Chalice of the Void for 1 but he plays a Stinger and eventually I die to steady Exalted beats from the stinger and Nexi. Sucked to have started and ended the day on the worst matchups for the archetype but we can do better next time.
Conclusion:
I think as the format reacts more and more to Grixis Shadows Grishoalbrand and its spell-based combo brothers will find their time to shine. I saw a bunch of Grixis Shadows in the loser brackets throughout the day. The top 8 consisted of 2 Eldrazi Trons, 2 Valakut, 1 Burn, 1 Naya Zoo, 1 Jund Shadows and one BG Midrange. In other words, the decks that I had hoped to face by dodging Shadows. I am fine running this back for the next few PPTQs. I would add a Chalice in favor of 1 Brutality and maybe find room for a Lightning Axe. I am fine punting the Grixis Shadows matchup as that's as hopeless as it can get and the Chalices/Moons are reasonable punk out plans against them anyway.
Yes, I was playing 3 chalice on Fri. I guess that is a reasonable answer to surgical if you have the time to cast it before doing anything. It is a great card. I've played a lot of eldrazi tron lately, and it is one of the big reasons that deck is so good. Imo, it is definitley a better deck that shadow atm. I think people have heard 'shadow is the best deck' so much that they are coming prepared to beat it. Drazi tron is a much better deck against the field, other than affinity. But I hate being the 'target' deck, so am setting it down for the time being. It is still a great deck, it's just absolutely everywhere. I judged a pptq today and there were 7 dtron decks, 6 burn decks and 5 shadow decks in a 35 person tourney. The one thing I don't like is a lot of people are coming with gy hate as a way to attack shadow. The splash damage is harmful to us.
But, anyway, I like Blood Moon and Chalice right now. I'll have to work on the sideboard to adjust to my local meta. There are some interesting options currently.
Is Chalice pretty much a necessity now? I don't want to drop $140-210 for just a sideboard card. This is the list I'm running now and I have yet to take a match off Grixis DS.
Leyline of Sanctity is the budget version, since it turns of at least all the discard. However, you are still cold to Denial, so you still need to SB in the Pacts.
You would board something like this:
+4 Leylines, +2 Pacts
-1 Temple (even on the play or in your list rather Bog), -2 Brutality, -1 Through the Breach, -1 Hug, -1 Morphose
The reason for only one Hug is, cause you have more dead cards in your deck, which you want to cycle through.
@finalnub, regarding the Storm deck. Yeah, they can win out of the blue but so can we. We have the advantage to go off at instant speed, so we can actually pick the moment when we want to do something while the Storm player is forced to do it in his turn in one of the Mainphases.
Hence, as long as he has not the turn 3 kill we should have more than enough time to pick a moment, where we are in an advantage.
Regarding your PPTQ, sucks to play against GB Infect in the last round AND than to have really bad draws
Btw. against GB Infect I would board like this:
+2 Chalice, +2 Blood Moon, +1 Brutality and board the same 5 cards out.
An early Moon is gg and an early Chalice SHOULD by you enough time to gobble something together. However, since you have no Lightning Axe in your SB, the (second) best card vs Infect is missing here. If you had one, I would board this in over the Brutality (even though that card is great on turn 2 vs Infect).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
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during the cleanup step i can cast goryo's vengeance while the worldspine wurm shuffle trigger is on the stack or after shuffling the wurms in the library?
Clean-up step:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
This is the last(!) instance of the Clean-up step. There are some corner cases, where you can abuse this in your favour, cause stuff like damage on creatures, effects which last until the end of your turn and similar things cease to exist.
This means, against ADN you can go off, force the Angel's Grace, go into the clean-up step, ditch a Wurm, get priority again and force the second one out. Then you let him untap and force the third one.
This is by far the easiest way to beat ADN, since the counter-play against this is having 3 Angle's Grace in hand + being able to cast them, which is more than unlikely (and even than, you can just do the same again in your next turn and force another 3 Angel's Graces, which is nigh impossible that he has it ).
Other option is just to chain draw and pitch Wurms to repeat this procedure.
Only problem: MODO has problems with the Clean-up step IIRC
Btw. full rules for the Clean-up step:
514.1 First, if the active player’s hand contains more cards than his or her maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to reduce his or her hand size to that number. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.2 Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.3 Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: And yes, I won because of these things already a couple of times ^^
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
thanks kathal!..never tried that line of play before..appreciate the through explanation..more power to ya!
Instead I would go the slow route (if he does nothing) and play temple into land into TTB on his end step. He has no clock (you will be at 15) and a Wurm will most likely result into a lethal attack.
If he goes for a Gifts, you can still go Goryo's into probably a win (cause of the Shoal + Wurm in your hand).
What I think his hand here is:
Remand, Gifts, land, Ritual, X, X
This means, he can always go Ritual into Gifts and keep Remand open. This might be a reason for me to no play the Temple next turn but instead the Mountain, so that you can recast the Goryo's
Basically:
- If he goes for an EoT Gifts without a Ritual, I will try to combo off
- If he goes for an EoT Rit into Gifts (and thus keeping 1 mana up) it depends on what the Gifts is grabbing (would wait here tbh)
- If he just passes and nothing happens, I will play Mountain next turn (to be able to play around one Remand) and than wait and see, if he goes for any EoT shenanigans.
Basically, wait and see is the approach I would take here. He has no clock (at least no real one) so we have time. Since I do not like to rush things when not necessary, I do not see even the need to go for something here, till he forces us to do something.
Note: Just realised, that you haven't played a land for the turn yet. I would play the Mountain and than pass. This way, you can play around a single Remand/Spell Pierce, even IF he goes for Rit into Gifts into Remand/Spell Pierce.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Some thoughts below. I may be misevaluating Storm's kill potential, but I thinking back I would drop a mountain, cast a Vengeance, then recast a Vengeance if it gets remanded and try to go off. I think the upside of waiting realistically is minimal and the downside is deadly.
Thanks!
Heck, if the opponent knows, what he is doing, he can just Remand the Shoal and not the Goryo's, which forces you to find an awkward win with less cards to draw, to say it this way.
The only reason, WHY I would jam it now is, that you are on 17 life. This means only three draw sevens of the Shoal you have in your hand and the need to find Shoal + Wurm in 21 cards.
So yeah, I would wait. If he does nothing for another 2 turns, I would go TTB Wurm, otherwise try to go off, when he is low on mana.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I looked through the last 2 weeks-ish worth of Storm lists. Very minimal permission mainboard (only remands, no pierces/dispels/negates/swan songs in the 60). I'm surprised a lot of lists are even going below 4 remands.
Given the lack of hard counters, and the perceived proximity to a kill for the Storm player, I now think the best move is to play a mountain and jam a Vengeance, with the plan to re-jam the Vengeance again if Remanded, logic being that they must be close to a kill given the first 3 turns, lack of hard counters in main decks of storm lists nowadays, and you can jam Vengeance twice with a full shoal in hand. Agree that shoal splicing Vengeance is by far the worst option of all (brainfart..) What do you think?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=115352
4 Remands/1 Negate
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=115337
Caleb Scherer's list: 0 Remand (!!)/2 Swan Songs
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=115390
4 Remands/no permission post board
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/713125#online
2 Remands MD/2 Dispels, 1 Swan Song SB
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/713094#online
4 Remands/2 Dispels, 1 Negate
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/714553#online
3 Remand/no permission post board
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/716388#online
2 Remands/no permission post board
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/718279#online
4 Remands/1 Dispel, 1 Negate
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/727396#online
3 Remand/2 Negate
Sure, I yolo slam the combo also quite regularly, however, when I have everything set-up I ALWAYS try to play around as much possible interaction as possible. I won once, cause I played around a Psionic Blast out of Merfolk just because I played around this.
Stuff like this made me very cautious, when I can actually afford it.
And in this specific case, you can afford to wait. You can Wurm in two turns, if the opponent still does nothing (which should be lethal on it's own). If he goes low on Mana, it means basically, that he presses F6 against us.
Heck, even in the worst case of Ritual + Ritual + Gifts (in his main phase) leaves him with 1 mana post PiF which means after the flashback Ritual he has no mana floating and thus gives us a window to combo off safely.
I might be wrong here, but this is how I would approach every scenario like this. Play it safe, if you can afford it, press the petal to the metal, if you need to.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
if he has no lands but two rits and gifts i dont believe such a window exists. double rit (RRRRRR) tap the second land for U and gifts ( 1 land untapped and RRRR), give him phose and pif, pif (1 land and R) then he can start flashing back a rit with an open land.
I do wonder if the first point is enough to tilt towards waiting. the reason i hesitate is because breaching a wurm is likely a 2 turn clock that can be started in one turn, which is too late more often than not vs storm. i could very much see waiting until his end step and vengeancing twice now as the best move now though
Play a Mountain, pass, if he does nothing in your endstep let him untap. If he wants to combo off in his turn you can still combo off in response (just do it when something is on the stack, otherwise you might run into a Grapeshot problem (denying you draws)).
If he just untaps and attacks with Baral again, Goryo's Griseldaddy into the game and block Baral. If he has a Remand here, you can say okay and do the same thing again (or just wait to play around any counter-spell he might have).
This will allow you to go off in his Endstep in response to the Goryo's trigger OR right there in the combat phase. Just don't do it, when he can cast Sorceries, cause it can get quite awkward.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Since close to nobody plays the deck currently, there is no agreed upon best version. All of them have some form of twists in there, which some other player might disagree with.
However, the best VERSION is the BR All in one (at least currently in this meta). This is one of the more standard MD versions:
1 Polluted Delta
4 Temple of Malice
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Griselbrand
2 Borborygomos Enraged
4 Worldspine Wurm
3 Cathartic Reunion
3 Night's Whisper
2 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Goryo's Vengeance
3 Desperate Ritual
4 Through the Breach
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
2 Pact of Negation
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
For the SB those are basically the current Core cards (although, some can argue, that Blood Moon is unnecessary currently).
Otherwise you need some form of Sweepers in the SB and Artefact hate.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: For example, my list has a different MD:
-1 Blackcleave Cliffs, -1 Desperate Ritual, -1 Manamorphose, -1 Catharic Reunion
+1 Geier's Reach Sanctury, +1 Night's Whisper, +1 Soul Spike, +1 Read the Bones
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I played Amat's version last night at FNM and went 3:1 (Wins: Zoo, Dtron, UW control, Loss: Abzan Shadow). It's pretty close to that list. It was a blast and people kept gathering around to watch my matches. I was a bit rusty and took a turn or two longer to win a couple matches, but still got there. While I do think the deck is relatively poorly position currently, it is still super fun to play and still can get free wins. There is just so much GY hate and surgical especially that I think right now it is more of a fun choice than a good one.
My meta has a ton of eldrazi tron where a quick blood moon slows them down enough to be worth it, I think. I do think Boseiju is weak right now since the control decks are running a lot of land hate and it comes in tapped. Smart players will just save some sort of LD for it. I'm a fan of EE and shattering spree or shatterstorm, as there is a lot of affinity and artifact based hate. I wonder if we want Thoughtseize again to help with surgical in particular, since short of pact I don't see any other good way to deal with it.
Anyway it was definitely fun to play again. I wish people would stop attacking GYs so I could feel good about playing it at 'real' tournaments.
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice
//Instants
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
2 Cathartic Reunion
2 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Night's Whisper
//Creatures
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Lightning Axe
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Pact of Negation
1 Shattering Spree
yea, i think that may be the best way to go. I just respect Storms' ability to win from nowhere, but maybe too much. I think we should plan to Vengeance if they tap out on our End Step for Gifts and combo off, or plan to double Vengeance on their end step if they do not combo off. if they do try, we can try and find a clean spot to combo in response
My deck this weekend:
1 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Blackcleave Cliff
5 Swamp
3 Mountain
4 Faithless Looting
3 Cathartic Reunion
4 Night's Whisper
4 Worldspine Wurm
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
1 Manamorhpose
3 Desperate Ritual
2 Shattering Spree
2 Pact of Negation
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Collective Brutality
Card choices:
*3rd Desperate Ritual MD: I found Cathartic Reunion pretty unimpressive (although necessary). I added the Desperate Ritual for additional acceleration and additional ritual when trying to combo off from a tight spot and found it much more impressive than the 4th Hug.
*2 Collective Brutality SB: This kills against Burn but is mediocre in other spots. I still like having them as direct swaps for the Hugs against counterspell decks and is OK vs control decks and combo while double as discard outlets. I could see myself replacing 1 for a Lightning Axe, which is kind of in a great spot right now
*Chalices and Blood Moon SB: there are so many matchups where these hate pieces are 1 hit KOs that I would not leave home without these in this metagame. I would have 3 Chalices but the third was not there due to availability.
*Bontu's Last Reckoning: This sweeper kills in the matchups where we want them. We struggle mightily against fast aggro decks, and usually the non-untap clause is irrelevant in these matchups as their hand should be nearly empty in these matchups by the time we cast them. Have love it so far. Plus, it's not unreasonable for us to cast this on turn 3 and combo via land+SSG+Vengeance
*No Boseiju SB: Think this is an outdated tech. Matchups with counterspells that we'd want this in (UW/Jeskai control, merfolk) have a mixture of spreading seas, GQ and Tec Edges that, with its enter tapped clause, renders Boseiju more ineffective than not. I'd play a third Pact over Boseiju.
Gameday:
My gameplan was simple:
*Hope to see Valakuts, Colonnades and Urza's Mines
*Hope to dodge Steam Vents and Watery Graves
I greet my r1 opponent and he leads on watery grave untapped, Thoughtseize me
well ****
Round 1 vs. Grixis Shadows
This is an awful matchup, and may be worse than what Infect was. They have a fast clock, proactive disruption and reactive disruption. Their deck was built to prey on spell-based combo like this.
G1 sees him do usual Grixis Shadows thing and shred my hand/beat me down with 1 mana 7/7s
Sideboard: +3 Blood Moon +2 Chalice +1 Last Reckoning -3 Hug -1 Ritual -2 Breach
The matchup is dire and my sideboarding show it. I think the best way to win is to cheese them out with turn 1 SSG+chalice or t2 Moon. Breaches are cut a lot of the times we are dead/effectively dead before we reach 5 mana. Not really sure if this is right but dire situations call for radical solutions
G2 I keep a hand with cantrips and turn 2 Blood Moon so I keep and cross my fingers. He lays a turn Watery Grave untapped and I'm praying it's a t1 SV or Scour but of course it is the discard and he takes away my Moon. We play draw-go for a while, with him casting nary a spell on turn 2/3, which is quite alarming. I suspect his hand must be a bunch of Denials, Terminates, Snapcasters and/or Extractions. On around turn 5 he goes down to 11, casts a SV but declines to cast a shadow or a threat. He passes to me with 2 Graves and 1 Crypt untapped and no counterspells in his graveyard. My graveyard has a Borborygmos and my hand is Vengeance, Vengeance, Breach and SSG and I have 4 lands in play. I reason that things will only get worse for me and thought this to be the best opening for me to make something happen.
My plan is to bluff Breach EOT, and try to resolve a Vengeance on Borborygmos on my main step, which would play around 1 counterspell and 1 extraction.
I could have waited to draw a threat to breach, but my read on the texture of his hand was pretty strong. I cast a Breach on his End Step with no creatures in hand and pitching SSG, which was met by stubborn denial. I untap, Vengeance my Borborygmos, he Extractions, I Vengeance for the second time and reanimate Borborygmos, but it meets a Terminate. I die a horrible death but I still think it was right to "go for it"
0-1 (0-2)
Round 2 vs. Cat Tribal Home Brew
The round 2 opponent was a nice dude who just started modern a month ago. I was pretty sure he was on his homebrew with embalm and eternalize. Turns out he made the deck himself and was quite emphatic about making it better which I think is great. Unfortunately for him he watches me turn 3 him twice.
1-1 (2-0)
Round 3 vs. Vizier Coco
G1 I have a Looting, Griselbrand, Vengeance and lands and everything goes as you would expect
Sideboarding: +2 Brutality +1 Kozilek's Return +2 Last Reckoning -1 Ritual -2 Reunion -1 Through the Breach -1 Temple of Malice
Cutting a breach is becoming a theme for me, but I find it necessary vs decks I deem to be faster on average than us (Storm, Vizier coco, affinity come to mind). A lot of these games I cut a land on the draw, and Temple is the land of choice because coming into play tapped can be a hindrance in racing situations
G2 I keep a hand with 1 land, Griselbrand, SSG, Vengeance, Shoal, Wurm. A picture-perfect hand on the draw. His turn 2 consists of him playing out a Devoted Druid. Mine consists of me binning Griselbrand to handsize. Turn 3 he immediately plays a Vizier and I am forced to combo instant-speed via 1 land+SSG. Because I already used 1 SSG and 1 Ritual mana is a real constraint and I more or less fizzle through 35 cards, but I can SSG+SSG+Ritual to Kozilek's Return his Druid before Vizier resolves. I kill him next turn.
Through the comboing he was giving me the bored look and after the game, he told me word for word that "that was by far the worst game of magic I had to play. Your deck sucks dude"
*shrug*
2-1 (2-0)
Round 4 vs. Affinity
From scouting, I already knew he was on Affinity. I planned on mulliganing appropriately.
G1 he was on the play and mulligans to 6. His start is somewhat anemic with just drum, skirge and Pests. I have a fairly nutty hand with Looting, Griselbrand and Vengeance and win turn 3
Sideboarding:+2 Shattering Spree +1 Kozilek's Return +1 Engineered Explosives (not sure about this, may be too slow and honestly not good enough in the matchup) +1 Last Reckoning -2 Through the Breach -1 Temple -1 Ritual -1 Night's Whisper
Logic for cutting breach is the same: Affinity is faster than us and more consistent than us so on average, we are unlikely to be able to cast a breach. The main way where we can get to that scenario is by drawing one of our sideboard sweepers.
G2 he has a Pest+Ravager opening but otherwise has nothing else but Nexi through turn 3. I theorize that his hand is full of colored spells. I Last Reckoning away his board. He rebuilds into Pest+Nexus and I KReturn away his board. He has 3 cards in hand for the longest time so he may have Galvanic Blast, RIP and/or Spell Pierces, but no colored sources. I eventually get there at my pace and he shows me a Master, RIP and Galvanic Blast.
3-1 (2-0)
Round 5 vs. Naya Zoo
I've see him around at the store and he plays all sort of random decks which is great. Fortunately I sat beside him a few times and know he's on some sort of Naya Zoo variant this week.
G1 I see a Voice of Resurgence and Renegade Rallier before I combo off. Not much to say here
Sideboarding: +2 Bontu's Last Reckoning +1 Kozilek's Return +1 Engineered Explosives (RIP may be a thing and a lot of his threats should be cmc=2 with potential goyfs/thalias) -2 Night's Whisper -1 Ritual -1 Hug
G2 he slams a t2 Thalia and that interferes with my hand enough. I die on 3 landss and a Last Reckoning plus Kozilek's Return in hand. I also note a turn 1 Tormod's Crypt
G3 I keep lands, shoal, wurm, looting and Vengeance. he slams a t2 Thalia again but I find another looting and bin a Griselbrand in the first two turns. He taps out to play creatures on t3 and I'm clear to Vengeance back my Griselbrand t3. Without untapped lands and SSG, this is going to be hard. I end up going through all 4 SSGs to shoal and sculpt the perfect hand with him at 12: 4 lands, Bontu's Last Reckoning, Goryo's Vengeance (Borborygmos in the GY) and Borborygmos. I have 11 cards left in the deck and have only drawn 1 Breach. So I figured even if he topdecks a crypt I can Last Reckoning his board away, draw a breach and breach in my borborygmos.
He just attacks me next turn and I think I make a potentially fatal mistake here. He has a Nacatl and Rallier and I reanimate Borborygmos with him at 8 life. I attack before throwing lands for some reason (he was tapped out and had a thalia so not sure what I was playing around). He blocks with both and I verbally fumble around my intent to throw lands before combat damages. We have a 10 minute judge discussion where I think it was deemed I said something to the effect of "ok go to damages, then activate Borborygmos", which of course can't happen when he's dead. Judge asked me and I explained my intent to throw lands before damages and he allowed me to do so rather than let the combat damages kick in. I'd done this hundreds of times that I made a mental shortcut error here and was lucky I did not get punished..
4-1 (2-0)
Going into the sixth and last round, I am the 9th and final 4-1'er - my round 1 opponent seems to have dropped out, which is super unfortunate. We are forced to play out the last round. We are called to the feature match area and play on stream. I think to myself that this is an exciting opportunity to top 8 a PPTQ and as long as I can avoid another 10/90 matchup and get to play Magic I'll be happy.
My opponent goes t1 Overgrown Tomb, t2 Overgrown Tomb into Plague Stinger
well ****
Round 6 vs. GB Infect
They told me Infect was dead!!! This may be on par with Grixis Shadows as the worst matchup for the deck. They are significantly faster and significantly more consistent. game 1 I am going to need to get super lucky and in sideboarded games I need to cheese them out.
G1 he plays the Stinger t2. I immediately panic and my hand of Shoal/lands/Borborygmos/Vengeance/Manamorphose doesn't look so good. On my turn 2 I decide to discard Borborygmos to hand size. I don't have a great plan though because t3 he plays a Inkmoth. He attacks with Stinger, I declare no blocks and he plays a Groundswell with a Tomb and an Inkmoth up. I tank for a while and don't see a good solution. If I Vengeance, he can Blossoming Defense/Vines in response and completely waste my Borborygmos. I end up not playing Vengeance, with the plan to reanimate and throw two lands at the Stinger only if he goes for a second pump spell. He doesn't and I take 5 infect. End step I Vengeance a Borborygmos and throw a land, only to be met by a Blossoming Defense. I throw my second land at it and kill it. I still don't have a solution to the Inkmoth and die a horrible death a few turns later
Sideboard: +2 Chalice +2 Brutality +1 Kozilek's Return -2 Breach -1 Temple -1 Hug -1 Ritual
My lack of reps vs. Infect showed up here. I should've brought in my Blood Moon because it's effectively a kill spell vs. their Nexi as well as potentially hosing their colors/Pendlehaven.
G2 I land an early Chalice of the Void for 1 but he plays a Stinger and eventually I die to steady Exalted beats from the stinger and Nexi. Sucked to have started and ended the day on the worst matchups for the archetype but we can do better next time.
Conclusion:
I think as the format reacts more and more to Grixis Shadows Grishoalbrand and its spell-based combo brothers will find their time to shine. I saw a bunch of Grixis Shadows in the loser brackets throughout the day. The top 8 consisted of 2 Eldrazi Trons, 2 Valakut, 1 Burn, 1 Naya Zoo, 1 Jund Shadows and one BG Midrange. In other words, the decks that I had hoped to face by dodging Shadows. I am fine running this back for the next few PPTQs. I would add a Chalice in favor of 1 Brutality and maybe find room for a Lightning Axe. I am fine punting the Grixis Shadows matchup as that's as hopeless as it can get and the Chalices/Moons are reasonable punk out plans against them anyway.
But, anyway, I like Blood Moon and Chalice right now. I'll have to work on the sideboard to adjust to my local meta. There are some interesting options currently.
Leyline of Sanctity is the budget version, since it turns of at least all the discard. However, you are still cold to Denial, so you still need to SB in the Pacts.
You would board something like this:
+4 Leylines, +2 Pacts
-1 Temple (even on the play or in your list rather Bog), -2 Brutality, -1 Through the Breach, -1 Hug, -1 Morphose
The reason for only one Hug is, cause you have more dead cards in your deck, which you want to cycle through.
@finalnub, regarding the Storm deck. Yeah, they can win out of the blue but so can we. We have the advantage to go off at instant speed, so we can actually pick the moment when we want to do something while the Storm player is forced to do it in his turn in one of the Mainphases.
Hence, as long as he has not the turn 3 kill we should have more than enough time to pick a moment, where we are in an advantage.
Regarding your PPTQ, sucks to play against GB Infect in the last round AND than to have really bad draws
Btw. against GB Infect I would board like this:
+2 Chalice, +2 Blood Moon, +1 Brutality and board the same 5 cards out.
An early Moon is gg and an early Chalice SHOULD by you enough time to gobble something together. However, since you have no Lightning Axe in your SB, the (second) best card vs Infect is missing here. If you had one, I would board this in over the Brutality (even though that card is great on turn 2 vs Infect).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)