btw, in the last 2 months or so I've been experiencing frequent errors when Splicing onto Arcane (when I try to splice a spell, sometimes the game crashes and rewinds itself until it restarts the game. Has anyone else seen this? Been very frustrating as it's forced me to play suboptimally knowing that splicing may crash the game.
I've run into this several times as well. From what I can tell, it's triggered by splicing a targeted spell (like Goryo's Vengeance) onto a non-targeted spell (like Nourishing Shoal). I never had any trouble while comboing off splicing rituals onto other rituals or through the breaches, but when playing around countermagic and trying to do the Shoal + Vengeance is when I saw it most often.
btw, in the last 2 months or so I've been experiencing frequent errors when Splicing onto Arcane (when I try to splice a spell, sometimes the game crashes and rewinds itself until it restarts the game. Has anyone else seen this? Been very frustrating as it's forced me to play suboptimally knowing that splicing may crash the game.
I've run into this several times as well. From what I can tell, it's triggered by splicing a targeted spell (like Goryo's Vengeance) onto a non-targeted spell (like Nourishing Shoal). I never had any trouble while comboing off splicing rituals onto other rituals or through the breaches, but when playing around countermagic and trying to do the Shoal + Vengeance is when I saw it most often.
glad it's not just me. And yea I haven't really kept track but it's usually when i try to cast shoal splicing Breach/Vengeance onto it. It's quite frustrating even if i try to "play around it" by trying to combo without splice but there are plenty of times when you have to splice to maximize your resources. Very frustrating because I've been playing this deck exclusively for the last month or so and it happens so often. The support team knows the problem but doesn't look like it's going to do anything about it, which is doubly frustrating and makes me want to get off the deck because it may cost you games in high leverage spots. Speaking of, I was in game 1 in the Modern PTQ against Grixis Shadows and I was actually about to combo off and steal game 1 before.. the game crashed.
For Storm you could play a graveyard hate card like Leyline of the Void or Nihil Spellbomb. It's narrow but can slow them down enough and also wrecks Dredge if you somehow play against it.
been brainstorming this some more since this deck is running rampant on MTGO and it's likely going to be very popular in paper as a relatively cheap tier 1 deck. I'm trying to find a knockout punch against them but don't really see any. Even Mindbreak Trap should just be shrugged off by the current rendition of storm
*Nihil Spellbomb - replaces itself, gives another turn 1 play. Somewhat narrow in the metagame as there aren't that many graveyard decks, dodges counterspells if played on turn 1
*Rakdos Charm - more versatile, doesn't hit chalice on 2, holding up 2 mana to be used at instant speed isn't great in a proactive deck, weak to dispel
*Mindbreak Trap - don't think this does much against the current rendition of storm. If they have the gifts/pif engine going they should just be able to find another Grapeshot
*Lost Legacy - Could this be something here? Exiling PiF sounds like it should buy enough time to win. Problem is there's not a lot of combos in this meta and I'm afraid this will have too narrow of application
*Slaughter Games - too expensive, chalice on 2 likely kills them dead
*Eidolon of the Great Revel - Fun card and likely to win the game on the spot but way too narrow
I have been pondering about this the last couple of days and I have to say, those on hit wonders against Strom do not really exist in our colours (which we can afford to run).
Hence, the best shot will probably be Collective Brutality (out vs Electromancer + taking a spell) and Spellbomb/Surgical. Everything else is either to slow, to clunky or needs to many slots.
Btw. went 2-2 at a small tournament last week. Was pretty rusty, but basically I only won two times with the Griselbrand combo over the whole tournament, everything else was Wurm or Borbor action...
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
While I do think the deck is a very proactive deck I also think that post sideboard we can afford to transition into a more prison style deck until we assemble our combo.
Which is nigh impossible to actually do, since we have so many combo pieces we need to relay on, that it gets wonky really fast.
The only thing I have seen success with was, to trim the whole Shoal package (including Borbo) and than board in 10 "control" cards (Chalice, Moon, discard, removal and co). However, at that point I dedicated so many SB cards for this, that I do not have the necessary flexibility for the current meta to cover the remaining bad or rather iffy match-ups.
What makes it worse is, that this slows us down a lot, essentially a full turn or two, depending on what we exactly cut. When then we lose the only "lock" piece we have against an opponent like DS or Storm, we will die before we can actually win with the trimmed down combo.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
yup. agree with everything Kathal's saying. the deck is not in a great place vs. storm. Actually I think Storm is in a pretty awesome spot right now and I've been wondering, as much as I love playing Griselbrand, whether Storm is just a better combo deck than Grishoalbrand as of now.
any thoughts on Search for Azcanta in a grixis shell? I may be overevaluating this and I know Blood Moon is great but I think this does exactly what we need to do (granted, we are sacrificing a bit of speed for consistency). With the way our deck is set up it wouldn't be absurd to think we can flip this on turn 4 if we need a business spell, or keep it as an enchantment if we need to entomb.
any thoughts on Search for Azcanta in a grixis shell? I may be overevaluating this and I know Blood Moon is great but I think this does exactly what we need to do (granted, we are sacrificing a bit of speed for consistency). With the way our deck is set up it wouldn't be absurd to think we can flip this on turn 4 if we need a business spell, or keep it as an enchantment if we need to entomb.
Have been pondering about this card too. However, it basically boiled down to the question, if JVP isn't the better card in this slot?
Looking at the PT version of the deck (with JVP, Izzet Charm, Lightning Axe + Bolt, 10 cantrips and co), JVP reaps more profit, cause even if he dies to a Bolt/Push you can return him with a Goryo's for the value train. Furthermore, he is a looter, which is more important than "milling" yourself for 1 each turn. On the other hand, when Search flips it is better at finding what we need, as long as it isn't a creature (main problem).
The only version I would consider Search better than JVP is the UR Breach Moon list, where it both acts as a value enabler (4 Snappies) and reliable cantrip.
Yo I had never thought about that in that way thanks for the new insight!
Please keep in mind, that there ARE versions out there with a controlly MD (Lilli, Blood Moon, Bolt/Push/Terminate, and co). You can check the primer for more infos.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: And I really need to update the primer sometime >,>
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
any thoughts on Search for Azcanta in a grixis shell? I may be overevaluating this and I know Blood Moon is great but I think this does exactly what we need to do (granted, we are sacrificing a bit of speed for consistency). With the way our deck is set up it wouldn't be absurd to think we can flip this on turn 4 if we need a business spell, or keep it as an enchantment if we need to entomb.
Have been pondering about this card too. However, it basically boiled down to the question, if JVP isn't the better card in this slot?
Looking at the PT version of the deck (with JVP, Izzet Charm, Lightning Axe + Bolt, 10 cantrips and co), JVP reaps more profit, cause even if he dies to a Bolt/Push you can return him with a Goryo's for the value train. Furthermore, he is a looter, which is more important than "milling" yourself for 1 each turn. On the other hand, when Search flips it is better at finding what we need, as long as it isn't a creature (main problem).
The only version I would consider Search better than JVP is the UR Breach Moon list, where it both acts as a value enabler (4 Snappies) and reliable cantrip.
Yo I had never thought about that in that way thanks for the new insight!
Please keep in mind, that there ARE versions out there with a controlly MD (Lilli, Blood Moon, Bolt/Push/Terminate, and co). You can check the primer for more infos.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: And I really need to update the primer sometime >,>
I get what you are saying, but in a metagame flush with removals, I'm all for attacking from a different axis and blanking removal. Does suck that it's more narrow when it flips in that you can't dig for creatures, but then in that case you can keep it an enchantment. I do understand that looting is superior to what the enchantment does though. I'm also not sure if this card is a sideboard card or a mainboard card (JVP arguably has to be a sideboard card I think).
on a tangeant, i think the Blue Moon Breach decks are vastly overrated
Doubt this archetype would ever be tier 1 - if it gets too popular it won't be that hard to be hated out. Conceptually, I think a black serum vision fascimile would be a good start.
A 1 or 2cc artifact/enchantment that grants our graveyard hexproof or a black pull from eternity or a black instant like goryo's vengeance only it targets any creature that have been exiled would be nice..
Just musing, but how close do you think the metagame is to Leyline of Sanctity being good for us? I dislike Leyline and it would take a lot for me to play this card, but I recognize that Leyline has been played in the past in Grishoalbrand and would concede that Leylines could be right in the right metagame (storm and grixis shadows being extremely highly played, for example)
I'd say it is meta dependent. I ran it for a while, but only when I expected to face a lot of discard, storm, or sometimes burn. The main problem with Leyline is that it can often be a trap, encouraging you to keep a subpar hand simply because it has a leyline. I've lost more games to Jund style decks on bad Leyline keeps than I have without it, but it still has its uses. I would never say it is an auto include, but it is never from being slotted right back into the SB either.
Whats the status of Intant Reanimator in current meta? I have ran BR grishoalbrand in couple weekly tournaments at LGS with 2-2 records and I feel like it has quite a bit of consistency issues. Now I am wondering if the BR shoal version is still the most consistent version, or is for example blue splash for Serum Visions and Izzet Charm worth it? Then I would have to cut Blood Moon from sideboard. I am also thinking about the version which runns Griselbrand and Emrakul, with blue for cantrips and Remand.
Why I am thinking this stuff is that there is a larger tournament incoming and I might want run with Instant Reanimator, since that is the deck I am most comfortable with in Modern.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes) Legacy: BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
I think the archetype's still got the power level as well as a decent metagame to spike a tournament. As for blue, I'm skeptical still because of the painful mana base and the inability to play Blood Moons, which are 1-hit KOs vs. a lot of decks. I doubt it's going to be worth it, although I'm going to be testing Search for Azcanta and Chart a Course.
I think the archetype's still got the power level as well as a decent metagame to spike a tournament. As for blue, I'm skeptical still because of the painful mana base and the inability to play Blood Moons, which are 1-hit KOs vs. a lot of decks. I doubt it's going to be worth it, although I'm going to be testing Search for Azcanta and Chart a Course.
I agree with this. Although I have played all versions at some time, I have always come back to the BR version. I think it would literally take an unbanning of Preordain to push me to Blue, even if it is a color that I like so much.
I have also been wanting to go back and try Grishoalbrand, but have been 3-1, 3-0-1, and 4-0ing my FNMs recently with Humans and Knightfall. It's hard to come off decks when you're doing so well.
I wanted to say, congratulations FinalNub! Your list made it to Channelfireball as the list Pascal used for reference on "odd decks in Modern." Gotta love those League 5-0s.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've run into this several times as well. From what I can tell, it's triggered by splicing a targeted spell (like Goryo's Vengeance) onto a non-targeted spell (like Nourishing Shoal). I never had any trouble while comboing off splicing rituals onto other rituals or through the breaches, but when playing around countermagic and trying to do the Shoal + Vengeance is when I saw it most often.
glad it's not just me. And yea I haven't really kept track but it's usually when i try to cast shoal splicing Breach/Vengeance onto it. It's quite frustrating even if i try to "play around it" by trying to combo without splice but there are plenty of times when you have to splice to maximize your resources. Very frustrating because I've been playing this deck exclusively for the last month or so and it happens so often. The support team knows the problem but doesn't look like it's going to do anything about it, which is doubly frustrating and makes me want to get off the deck because it may cost you games in high leverage spots. Speaking of, I was in game 1 in the Modern PTQ against Grixis Shadows and I was actually about to combo off and steal game 1 before.. the game crashed.
feels bad man
been brainstorming this some more since this deck is running rampant on MTGO and it's likely going to be very popular in paper as a relatively cheap tier 1 deck. I'm trying to find a knockout punch against them but don't really see any. Even Mindbreak Trap should just be shrugged off by the current rendition of storm
*Nihil Spellbomb - replaces itself, gives another turn 1 play. Somewhat narrow in the metagame as there aren't that many graveyard decks, dodges counterspells if played on turn 1
*Rakdos Charm - more versatile, doesn't hit chalice on 2, holding up 2 mana to be used at instant speed isn't great in a proactive deck, weak to dispel
*Mindbreak Trap - don't think this does much against the current rendition of storm. If they have the gifts/pif engine going they should just be able to find another Grapeshot
*Lost Legacy - Could this be something here? Exiling PiF sounds like it should buy enough time to win. Problem is there's not a lot of combos in this meta and I'm afraid this will have too narrow of application
*Slaughter Games - too expensive, chalice on 2 likely kills them dead
*Eidolon of the Great Revel - Fun card and likely to win the game on the spot but way too narrow
Hence, the best shot will probably be Collective Brutality (out vs Electromancer + taking a spell) and Spellbomb/Surgical. Everything else is either to slow, to clunky or needs to many slots.
Btw. went 2-2 at a small tournament last week. Was pretty rusty, but basically I only won two times with the Griselbrand combo over the whole tournament, everything else was Wurm or Borbor action...
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The only thing I have seen success with was, to trim the whole Shoal package (including Borbo) and than board in 10 "control" cards (Chalice, Moon, discard, removal and co). However, at that point I dedicated so many SB cards for this, that I do not have the necessary flexibility for the current meta to cover the remaining bad or rather iffy match-ups.
What makes it worse is, that this slows us down a lot, essentially a full turn or two, depending on what we exactly cut. When then we lose the only "lock" piece we have against an opponent like DS or Storm, we will die before we can actually win with the trimmed down combo.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Have been pondering about this card too. However, it basically boiled down to the question, if JVP isn't the better card in this slot?
Looking at the PT version of the deck (with JVP, Izzet Charm, Lightning Axe + Bolt, 10 cantrips and co), JVP reaps more profit, cause even if he dies to a Bolt/Push you can return him with a Goryo's for the value train. Furthermore, he is a looter, which is more important than "milling" yourself for 1 each turn. On the other hand, when Search flips it is better at finding what we need, as long as it isn't a creature (main problem).
The only version I would consider Search better than JVP is the UR Breach Moon list, where it both acts as a value enabler (4 Snappies) and reliable cantrip.
Please keep in mind, that there ARE versions out there with a controlly MD (Lilli, Blood Moon, Bolt/Push/Terminate, and co). You can check the primer for more infos.
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: And I really need to update the primer sometime >,>
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
on a tangeant, i think the Blue Moon Breach decks are vastly overrated
Why I am thinking this stuff is that there is a larger tournament incoming and I might want run with Instant Reanimator, since that is the deck I am most comfortable with in Modern.
BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes)
Legacy:
BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
I agree with this. Although I have played all versions at some time, I have always come back to the BR version. I think it would literally take an unbanning of Preordain to push me to Blue, even if it is a color that I like so much.
I have also been wanting to go back and try Grishoalbrand, but have been 3-1, 3-0-1, and 4-0ing my FNMs recently with Humans and Knightfall. It's hard to come off decks when you're doing so well.
I wanted to say, congratulations FinalNub! Your list made it to Channelfireball as the list Pascal used for reference on "odd decks in Modern." Gotta love those League 5-0s.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)