Windborn Muse is a bit slow in my experience, if you want a taxing effect like that I'd just run a number of Ghostly Prisons in the board as Chording/Fauna Shaman'ing into Muse while it's still relevant against either is low.
Infect has never really been an issue for me, but Dredge requires a ton of patience if you want to beat the deck consistently without loading your board up with hate. Conflagrate is their best card against you, obviously pay more attention to those than recursive creatures early on with Scooze.
Wheel of Sun and Moon is something I've been testing in and out of the board a lot more lately. The black splash also has a lot more to offer in the MU if you're expecting a ton of Dredge.
If you're truly worried about Dredge and want a toolbox answer, there's Yixlid Jailer in black and Loaming Shaman in green. All about timing like Ludafish said.
So what's the verdict of eldritch evolution? How many copies do we run, if any?
There's no verdict, please just browse the thread because this has been discussed to death. The only consensus we have is CoCo + Evo don't go together well.
Also want is the view on fauna shaman these days? Too slow?
This has also been discussed in the last couple of pages, once again. I really wish people would read the thread before posting so we can focus on actual testing results.
Fauna Shaman is insane in a creature-heavy CoCo build, and you definitely want 3 of her there. In a Chord build, not as great.
Ludafish has been running 3 copies in his build to some seriously good results at GPs the past year. It's all there.
Also want is the view on fauna shaman these days? Too slow?
This has also been discussed in the last couple of pages, once again. I really wish people would read the thread before posting so we can focus on actual testing results.
Fauna Shaman is insane in a creature-heavy CoCo build, and you definitely want 3 of her there. In a Chord build, not as great.
Ludafish has been running 3 copies in his build to some seriously good results at GPs the past year. It's all there.
I have completely moved away from evolution and prefer the flexibility and reward for good play chord provides. As for fauna shaman, I like the idea of it but creatures who can just be bolted before providing value is hard to justify. I can see the value in a coco build, but that is simply not what i play so I won't say I am the expert.
Most recently I put a pair of k commands back in the main and have had better results this time around. Mana as always is very stretched but murmuring bosk has done work for me!
the dredge matchup is hard but ghostly prison does work, buying enough time to combo. I highly suggest 3 in the side as it is splash damage against merfolk and other go wide strategies.
Lastly, does anyone have suggestions for the ur thing matchup, I am continually out tempoed by that deck and it is more resilient to eidolon of rhetoric postboard when they bring in vapor snags. Thanks!
Also want is the view on fauna shaman these days? Too slow?
This has also been discussed in the last couple of pages, once again. I really wish people would read the thread before posting so we can focus on actual testing results.
Fauna Shaman is insane in a creature-heavy CoCo build, and you definitely want 3 of her there. In a Chord build, not as great.
Ludafish has been running 3 copies in his build to some seriously good results at GPs the past year. It's all there.
I have completely moved away from evolution and prefer the flexibility and reward for good play chord provides. As for fauna shaman, I like the idea of it but creatures who can just be bolted before providing value is hard to justify.
Yeah, Jund should just get rid of Dark Confidant as well cause what's the point if it gets bolted.
from="whocansay »"
Yeah, Jund should just get rid of Dark Confidant as well cause what's the point if it gets bolted.
First of all I even wrote I was not the expert, just sharing my opinion... for what it's worth, I believe confidant can take over games if unanswered, a reason it passes the bolt test. It creates card advantage, which shaman does not do, it simply creates card selection. It is a powerful card, I simply wanted to express why I choose to not play it.
Additionally any jund player will take your bolt with inquisition if their follow up is bob
Well, if you'd bothered to read the thread, you'd find people like Ludafish (who's as close to an expert on the CoCo build as you'll find in here) confirming that Fauna Shaman absolutely takes over games if unanswered.
Don't wanna run her, don't run her, but saying she doesn't warrant a slot because she might die to bolt is complete nonsense.
The 'bolt test' is a bit outdated, in my opinion. It was much more relevant a year ago when splinter twin was a deck. Playing against splinter twin was a huge tempo disadvantage in general, they played all instant speed, they could race you and you could not tap out. They also dominated the field with 10% of the meta, and always packing a virtual 8 bolts because of snapcaster mage.
Some of the bogey men of the format today, Bant Eldrazi, Dredge, Infect and Tron rarly run bolts. Zoo, jund and burn stil do play bolt, and grixis stil pull the snap bolt combination.
Over the last year we have seen a huge increase in played creatures that do not 'pass the bolt test' simply because they are so good they justefy being played. Eldrazi Displacer being a prime example. Grim flayers that do not always have delerium, near all creatures in death and taxes eldrazi.
Also Patrickgoogley take what whocansay with a grain of salt. He tends to be argumentative and a bit hyperbolic.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
I also tend to put up results with the deck rather than speculate about whether some obscure 9-drop might be a good idea if we just add 4 Traverses.
Can we please get back to actual testing?
I have been following the thread and read ludafish's peice on shaman. While I highly respect his finishes and skills as a player, but this forum is not for coco builds only, and the chord only build runs vastly differently, wanting access to different types of creatures.
I will ask again since the majority of my post was overlooked if anyone has suggestions on how to improve the ur thing matchup? Vapor snag out of their sideboard is back breaking when you are leaning on eidolon for an answer.
Most of the UR thing decks I have seen does not run counterspells. Just have spot removal for them, 4 paths maindeck. The sideboard slot is very tight, so maybe a blessed aliance?
Remember spellskythe is a horror and doed not get bounced by thing.
If the thing decks runs Pyromancers Ascention they are very good once they go online. A local player runs storm, and I keep the eidolon to keep him off.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
I also tend to put up results with the deck rather than speculate about whether some obscure 9-drop might be a good idea if we just add 4 Traverses.
Can we please get back to actual testing?
I have been following the thread and read ludafish's peice on shaman. While I highly respect his finishes and skills as a player, but this forum is not for coco builds only, and the chord only build runs vastly differently, wanting access to different types of creatures.
I literally just said Fauna Shaman is not great in Chord-only builds.
This is the 75 I've been testing. I have been calling it Kiki zoo since it runs just like a zoo deck and can go for the combo once you draw a chord through the witness loop. Bird over hierarch sadly because I often need it for the pontiff or Kiki if they get stuck in hand, maybe it's just bad luck but Everytime I test with noble I get color screwed. Knight has been awesome and I've even considered dropping mesas for Misty's grabbing breeding over overgrown and finding room for a coralhelm and replacing pontiff with staticastet.
The best part of the deck is the ability to aggro out a bit better than the fauna shaman builds.
Is it agro enough to just play threats and winn? I also think one angel is a bit little? I like the knights a lot thoug. She helps with the four colours.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Nacatl into voice into knight is a great curve. Ooze spirit and pridemage also put out a good bit of damage. Angel is literally only there for combo so no need for more as this build lacks etb targets.
Nacatl into voice into knight is a great curve. Ooze spirit and pridemage also put out a good bit of damage. Angel is literally only there for combo so no need for more as this build lacks etb targets.
You could consider a one of sejiri steppe to protect a creature or go through a board state. Knight is really nice with the villager
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Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Infect has never really been an issue for me, but Dredge requires a ton of patience if you want to beat the deck consistently without loading your board up with hate. Conflagrate is their best card against you, obviously pay more attention to those than recursive creatures early on with Scooze.
Wheel of Sun and Moon is something I've been testing in and out of the board a lot more lately. The black splash also has a lot more to offer in the MU if you're expecting a ton of Dredge.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
There's no verdict, please just browse the thread because this has been discussed to death. The only consensus we have is CoCo + Evo don't go together well.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I'm keen to view the match ups and tips in the primer.
Any ideas when this will be finished?
Also want is the view on fauna shaman these days? Too slow?
This has also been discussed in the last couple of pages, once again. I really wish people would read the thread before posting so we can focus on actual testing results.
Fauna Shaman is insane in a creature-heavy CoCo build, and you definitely want 3 of her there. In a Chord build, not as great.
Ludafish has been running 3 copies in his build to some seriously good results at GPs the past year. It's all there.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I have completely moved away from evolution and prefer the flexibility and reward for good play chord provides. As for fauna shaman, I like the idea of it but creatures who can just be bolted before providing value is hard to justify. I can see the value in a coco build, but that is simply not what i play so I won't say I am the expert.
Most recently I put a pair of k commands back in the main and have had better results this time around. Mana as always is very stretched but murmuring bosk has done work for me!
the dredge matchup is hard but ghostly prison does work, buying enough time to combo. I highly suggest 3 in the side as it is splash damage against merfolk and other go wide strategies.
Lastly, does anyone have suggestions for the ur thing matchup, I am continually out tempoed by that deck and it is more resilient to eidolon of rhetoric postboard when they bring in vapor snags. Thanks!
Yeah, Jund should just get rid of Dark Confidant as well cause what's the point if it gets bolted.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
First of all I even wrote I was not the expert, just sharing my opinion... for what it's worth, I believe confidant can take over games if unanswered, a reason it passes the bolt test. It creates card advantage, which shaman does not do, it simply creates card selection. It is a powerful card, I simply wanted to express why I choose to not play it.
Additionally any jund player will take your bolt with inquisition if their follow up is bob
Don't wanna run her, don't run her, but saying she doesn't warrant a slot because she might die to bolt is complete nonsense.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Some of the bogey men of the format today, Bant Eldrazi, Dredge, Infect and Tron rarly run bolts. Zoo, jund and burn stil do play bolt, and grixis stil pull the snap bolt combination.
Over the last year we have seen a huge increase in played creatures that do not 'pass the bolt test' simply because they are so good they justefy being played. Eldrazi Displacer being a prime example. Grim flayers that do not always have delerium, near all creatures in death and taxes eldrazi.
Also Patrickgoogley take what whocansay with a grain of salt. He tends to be argumentative and a bit hyperbolic.
Can we please get back to actual testing?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I have been following the thread and read ludafish's peice on shaman. While I highly respect his finishes and skills as a player, but this forum is not for coco builds only, and the chord only build runs vastly differently, wanting access to different types of creatures.
I will ask again since the majority of my post was overlooked if anyone has suggestions on how to improve the ur thing matchup? Vapor snag out of their sideboard is back breaking when you are leaning on eidolon for an answer.
Remember spellskythe is a horror and doed not get bounced by thing.
If the thing decks runs Pyromancers Ascention they are very good once they go online. A local player runs storm, and I keep the eidolon to keep him off.
I literally just said Fauna Shaman is not great in Chord-only builds.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Village Bell-Ringer
1 Restoration Angel
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Arid Mesa
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
4 Path to Exile
2 Eternal Witness
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Blood Moon
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Lightning Helix
This is the 75 I've been testing. I have been calling it Kiki zoo since it runs just like a zoo deck and can go for the combo once you draw a chord through the witness loop. Bird over hierarch sadly because I often need it for the pontiff or Kiki if they get stuck in hand, maybe it's just bad luck but Everytime I test with noble I get color screwed. Knight has been awesome and I've even considered dropping mesas for Misty's grabbing breeding over overgrown and finding room for a coralhelm and replacing pontiff with staticastet.
The best part of the deck is the ability to aggro out a bit better than the fauna shaman builds.
You could consider a one of sejiri steppe to protect a creature or go through a board state. Knight is really nice with the villager