Kiki company can not pull the serach that fast, but the sheer amount of creatures and card advantage in the coco might allow us to runn 1 or 2 thalias maindeck. It is very good when most of the rest of the deck is creatures. We will reach 5 mana for CoCo sooner or later.
Turn 1 Dork, Turn 2 Fauna Shaman is any 3 Drop in the deck on 3. Far faster and consistent than Turn 1 Bird, Turn 2 Wall, Turn 3 Chord.
i think mainboard if you are running Eidolon then evo into it turn 2 is usually enough. Games 2 and 3 are more difficult as they will bounce it then combo off or they will play out their dude then hold up swan song. It mulls very hard. If you have multiple forms of interaction then usually it just folds to it.
There is tons of hype bu I am not seeing it much in the published 5-0 lists?
That is actually quite a nice line Luda. Manadork into Evolution is just to vunerable.
Well, Ludafish's line is even more vunerable. His manadork have to survive 2 turns, and also Fauna Shaman. I bet, dork into T2 evolution is much less work and it requires far less cards then Ludafish's route does. Dont get me wrong, I also think that this route is possible and good for sure.
About Puresteel Paladin deck, I have been playing against it 4 or 5 times for now eather in real life or online and I lost only 1 game, and did not lost any match against this deck. I just think this deck is still too clunky to work and to be one of better decks. I mean, you have to pray to draw one of ur 8 cards, then you have to pray that your opponent doesnt have removal for your guy. + I dont want to speak about hate cards after SB or hate cards which our Kiki builds do have in main deck. My opinion is that this deck is busted now, but when dust setlles, we wont see much of this deck in the future. However, I also had chance to play against classic Storm includin both Goblin Electromanser and Baral. The deck is also nothing special, but I do think that this build of "Storm" have more potential then Puresteel Paladin version.
It is good to hear that Cheerio o's is unstable at least. Any deck that can winn on turn 2 is potensially very strong. (Paladin, O's, Chrome Mox and retract.) Even if they miss on the first try playing a second paladin would make it very unlikly that they whiff. The only card we have that interact with them is 3 or 4 paths, perhaps some lightning bolts depending on the build.
I am not to conserned about traditional storm. While it was inevitable that they would go off, the unstable hands ment it was not consistently turn 3 or 4. The banning of Probe makes it much harder as they can not just draw a bunch of free cards from the gravyeard.
One thing though, I do not think dork into evolution is less vunerable then bird shaman. If they remove the bird or the shaman you stand to loose less then if they remova the creature you evolutioned for.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
I feel we are on the verge on a very unfair meta so pack up that oozes and rhetorics! cheerios experdise storm are all showing up online!
In my area, 6 cheerios showed up to Regionls, the best one went 5-4. others were x-3 drops.
The deck is way to easy to hate out, especially in a 4 cryptic grixis meta, the deck just folds to interaction
Leyline, Chalice, path, counter spells, bolts, surgical, mindbreak trap list goes on the deck is easy to hose.
Expertise combo: unstable/inconsistent and weak to meta
Onto Eldritch Evolution: it's beyond bad
1: 1 kill spell=you got 3 for 1'd.
2: its very limited
3: requires a sacrifice as casting cost
4: double green req.
Chord: good
1:instant
2:has convoke
3:almost no limitions once cast
CoCo:good
1:instant
2:2 creatures
3: only 1 green
Pod; good
Permament, phyrexian mana. If it did not have phyrexian mana, wouldve been weaker. And it lets you play a deck on curve.
Also The most updated Version of Labyrinth Chord
It is good to hear that Cheerio o's is unstable at least. Any deck that can winn on turn 2 is potensially very strong. (Paladin, O's, Chrome Mox and retract.) Even if they miss on the first try playing a second paladin would make it very unlikly that they whiff. The only card we have that interact with them is 3 or 4 paths, perhaps some lightning bolts depending on the build.
I am not to conserned about traditional storm. While it was inevitable that they would go off, the unstable hands ment it was not consistently turn 3 or 4. The banning of Probe makes it much harder as they can not just draw a bunch of free cards from the gravyeard.
One thing though, I do not think dork into evolution is less vunerable then bird shaman. If they remove the bird or the shaman you stand to loose less then if they remova the creature you evolutioned for.
Well, Im speaking from my expirience and games I played against this deck. I run 4 Paths and 4 Bolts so its verry likely to have answer for their creatures.
Banning probe did hurt storm in some ways, but becuase of Baral, dont know did you see, they just shifted into something else. They dont run anymore Assension so probe is not crucial here.They just shifted into some package with Gifts + some numbers of Remand. I like the way the deck looks, but it needs more push and cards to be better overal. I do agree that its slower, but still think we, and any other deck can hateout Puresteel combo more then this deck(however, Eidolon wrecks both decks).
And about which route is better, If you closely look Puresteel Combo, because we was talking about that, they actualy have only 0-2 cards in first game to interact with route, becuase they only run 0-2 Swan Song's. However, I wont tell anyone which route is better because everyone likes another way, and we are all here to discuss about that. Thats the best thing in magic, you can do same things on different ways.
I absolutely love this list, what is your reasoning behind it?
Of course there are means to fight these decks its just a matter of having them. meta changes weekly and we need to stay on top!
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Modern: RBW Mardu Pyro X Eldrazi
Pauper: X Affinity G Stompy
Could you discuss some of your card choices for the Kiki list vs. the bant list you'd actually posted on Reddit and most of all how this configuration improves upon any Kiki Chord/Company/Evolution/Nahiri build?
My specific questions outside of that would be:
1. Mana Dork split - 2 Birds/3 Hierarchs?
2. 1 Ewit/3 Rallier split?
3. 2/2 Split of Evo between MD & Board?
4. 3/1 Felidar/Resto split?
5. 0 MD or SB Selfless Spirit/Spellskite to protect the combo?
6. Gideon in the board?
7. Why play Saheeli Combo at all? The combo itself can by interacted with by every piece of removal/disruption played in the format.
Could you discuss some of your card choices for the Kiki list vs. the bant list you'd actually posted on Reddit and most of all how this configuration improves upon any Kiki Chord/Company/Evolution/Nahiri build?
My specific questions outside of that would be:
1. Mana Dork split - 2 Birds/3 Hierarchs?
2. 1 Ewit/3 Rallier split?
3. 2/2 Split of Evo between MD & Board?
4. 3/1 Felidar/Resto split?
5. 0 MD or SB Selfless Spirit/Spellskite to protect the combo?
6. Gideon in the board?
7. Why play Saheeli Combo at all? The combo itself can by interacted with by every piece of removal/disruption played in the format.
1. Noble is the better dork in the more aggressively slanted deck. It doesn't run Kiki either.
2. Rallier is nuts in the deck. Read the topic on why.
3. We have lots of card filtering with Oaths and the like already, not as much silver bullet as Chord. It's more of that postboard. Preboard we're a deck that gains incremental advantage through all the 2-for-1s and the combo.
4. Felidar is a combo piece and does similar things to Resto, also flickers Oaths.
5. We dont combo unless we have to, often having a voice is just enough to get the value of a 2-for-1.
6. Against decks that run Anger/Wraths.
7. Saheeli is not only for the combo but synergises with the whole deck. We only combo if we have to or if we're sure the opponent has no removal. Until then we develop the board and attack unlike a traditional kiki-chrod deck which needs to put creatures back to chord. We clog the opponent on mana to respect the combo.
Most of those questions are answered in the thread above.
I'm sorry if you were confused. I'm directly referencing the list containing Kiki, not the bant list containing just Saheeli.
Sheli only costs 3 mana, so that gives the deck an easier way to play 'more' kiki-jiki. Only she only comboes with some of the creatures, and can be very veak vs zoo and other aggresive matches. Voice of resurgency is a no go.
There is no way that manabase casts kiki if you draw her, even by hoogland standar that is streetching it.
Only 2 evolutions seems like a bad way to dig, Oath if Nissa does not find silver bullits, the streangh of the deck.
At best Felidar Guardian has the combi in play, but nest best just an oath in play. I do not think a 1/4 dig 3 down is good enough in it's own.
Playing at sorcery speed is bad.
What I do like is going voice or wall into rallier with Evo. The card draw off wall might be rerelvant with so much combo potensial. Voice into evo into pia and kiran is also good. With no chord of coco gadon teeg becomes a good card vs tron. Rallier ramps, and he also has a minor combo with oath of nissa (does wonders with felidar as well.)
If you want to continue down that line of deck play 4 evolutions. I also do not know why you need the 1 restoration angel. Take out 2 pridemage, 1 resto angel, put in 2 more evolutions for consistency and sidebioard silver bullits, and change in 1 Reclamation Sage. Sage is better with evolution the pridemage.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Take Kiki chord, a deck that shines against midrange decks because all your creatures are two for ones, then can find hate for certain archetypes. Now take out your silver bullets and add a combo that any removal spell in the world can stop and you get that shaheeli deck. It's a semi cool idea, but I can't think of any matchups I'd rather be on a shaheeli list.
Also vida Thor is right. Sorcery speed is bad. Cryptic command will bend you over if you play only on your turn.
Sheli only costs 3 mana, so that gives the deck an easier way to play 'more' kiki-jiki. Only she only comboes with some of the creatures, and can be very veak vs zoo and other aggresive matches. Voice of resurgency is a no go.
There is no way that manabase casts kiki if you draw her, even by hoogland standar that is streetching it.
Only 2 evolutions seems like a bad way to dig, Oath if Nissa does not find silver bullits, the streangh of the deck.
At best Felidar Guardian has the combi in play, but nest best just an oath in play. I do not think a 1/4 dig 3 down is good enough in it's own.
Playing at sorcery speed is bad.
What I do like is going voice or wall into rallier with Evo. The card draw off wall might be rerelvant with so much combo potensial. Voice into evo into pia and kiran is also good. With no chord of coco gadon teeg becomes a good card vs tron. Rallier ramps, and he also has a minor combo with oath of nissa (does wonders with felidar as well.)
If you want to continue down that line of deck play 4 evolutions. I also do not know why you need the 1 restoration angel. Take out 2 pridemage, 1 resto angel, put in 2 more evolutions for consistency and sidebioard silver bullits, and change in 1 Reclamation Sage. Sage is better with evolution the pridemage.
Yeah I'm not playing Kiki-Jiki anymore. I was testing it but it's just not worth it. It doesn't bring anything new to the deck and is just a liability.
I went up to 3 Evolutions mainboard since we have both a strong combo and beatdown plan. We don't need alot of silver bulleting pre-board since we have a very fast win in the matchups where it matters. Lots of filtering of the deck lets us find the bullets naturally also. But I think that a fourth one is a liability, in the main. Against lots of matchups, like BGx and Control.
Felidar is good enough to have at least 2 of in main. He almost always gets value when cast in the worst case. I'm trying 3 to have larger chance of drawing the combo preboard.
how is everyone's current testing going? I am flipping between Abzan evo or kiki chord for GP brisbane. Kiki chord has beena bit of a struggle recently in leagues. However, i have made some changes and will test them out tonight. The good thing with modern atm is that there is more interaction going on. The sad thing is the birds keep dying. Thrun has been solid in the side lately. Also will try sin collector again. Seeing a lot more control than before. Shaving one evo for a rallier as well. No need to be as explosive as before
Both chord and coco (3 colours) works great for me. Magus of the moon works wonders vs tron, if you are lucky. Only deck I have had problems with is Grizzelbradn reanimate. It is hard to beat that through the breach emrakul. Would give chord 4,5 starts out of 5. I also wanne se Sram O's banned. I am planning on dodging Sram O's as I do not want to ad thalias or more (any) bolts to the deck. Either the meta stabelises and the deck is not good. Or it will get banned for breaking the turn 4 rule. Either way, Sram O spring will be very short lived compared to eldrazi winter.
Nice synergi with Vessel of Nascency and renegade rallier I would imagine? But is it to expensive for modern? Would not Mulch, Oath of Nissa or Grisly Salvage be better?
naclmolecule if you are already going for delerium, have you playtested with Goyf? - 1 Renegade rallier, - 1 eternal witnes, -1 restoration angel, - 1 voice of resurgency + 4 Tarmogoyf. You would go up to 7 very agressive 2 drops. There are also more targets for your rallier, or resto into rallier.
Plan A is just to attack with greatures, with an undercosted giant being the spearhead. And then if they tap out or side out to deal with that you can still get them with the Combo. I would try it at least and se how they are.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
After an unsuccessful gpt (1-3 drop / won against bant spirits , loss against burn, bant eldrazi and griselhoalbrand) I switched to esper control (if Jeff Hoogland reads this: man, if there was not this list making a 9-0-1 at the last classic, I would be paranoid and would seek for the hidden micros in my room ), had fun and decided to reconcentrate my kiki list on the basics (no shiny tricks, no fourth splash, pure chord with a sideboard which has a focus on combo):
Still undecided whether this deck is still well positioned in the current meta. Let us carry on and see.
PS: against griselhoalbrand, I won game 1 and lost the two last, each time with a path on the stack (turn 2 and then turn 3). Funny times. No, path won't save you in this one !
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Turn 1 Dork, Turn 2 Fauna Shaman is any 3 Drop in the deck on 3. Far faster and consistent than Turn 1 Bird, Turn 2 Wall, Turn 3 Chord.
There is tons of hype bu I am not seeing it much in the published 5-0 lists?
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14668&d=288109&f=MO only other list i could find, top 8 of a IRL tourny
It's mostly hype I think, and not especially difficult to hate out.
Well, Ludafish's line is even more vunerable. His manadork have to survive 2 turns, and also Fauna Shaman. I bet, dork into T2 evolution is much less work and it requires far less cards then Ludafish's route does. Dont get me wrong, I also think that this route is possible and good for sure.
About Puresteel Paladin deck, I have been playing against it 4 or 5 times for now eather in real life or online and I lost only 1 game, and did not lost any match against this deck. I just think this deck is still too clunky to work and to be one of better decks. I mean, you have to pray to draw one of ur 8 cards, then you have to pray that your opponent doesnt have removal for your guy. + I dont want to speak about hate cards after SB or hate cards which our Kiki builds do have in main deck. My opinion is that this deck is busted now, but when dust setlles, we wont see much of this deck in the future. However, I also had chance to play against classic Storm includin both Goblin Electromanser and Baral. The deck is also nothing special, but I do think that this build of "Storm" have more potential then Puresteel Paladin version.
I am not to conserned about traditional storm. While it was inevitable that they would go off, the unstable hands ment it was not consistently turn 3 or 4. The banning of Probe makes it much harder as they can not just draw a bunch of free cards from the gravyeard.
One thing though, I do not think dork into evolution is less vunerable then bird shaman. If they remove the bird or the shaman you stand to loose less then if they remova the creature you evolutioned for.
In my area, 6 cheerios showed up to Regionls, the best one went 5-4. others were x-3 drops.
The deck is way to easy to hate out, especially in a 4 cryptic grixis meta, the deck just folds to interaction
Leyline, Chalice, path, counter spells, bolts, surgical, mindbreak trap list goes on the deck is easy to hose.
Expertise combo: unstable/inconsistent and weak to meta
Onto Eldritch Evolution: it's beyond bad
1: 1 kill spell=you got 3 for 1'd.
2: its very limited
3: requires a sacrifice as casting cost
4: double green req.
Chord: good
1:instant
2:has convoke
3:almost no limitions once cast
CoCo:good
1:instant
2:2 creatures
3: only 1 green
Pod; good
Permament, phyrexian mana. If it did not have phyrexian mana, wouldve been weaker. And it lets you play a deck on curve.
Also The most updated Version of Labyrinth Chord
Lands-22
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Breeding Pool
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Flooded Strand
Creatures-29
3 Axebane Guardian
2 Carven Caryatid
3 Overgrown Battlement
3 Wall of Omens
2 Wall of Roots
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Restoration Angel
2 Eternal Witness
1 Flickerwisp
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Spellskite
1 Perimeter Captain
1 Furystoke Giant
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Chord of Calling
3 Collected Company
3 Path to Exile
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Trinisphere
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
Standard
BUG SuperFriends
Modern
RWGKiki's CastleRWG
UB Turns UB
GRBU HulkBreach GRBU
Legacy
GRWBNic-ShiftGRWB
Well, Im speaking from my expirience and games I played against this deck. I run 4 Paths and 4 Bolts so its verry likely to have answer for their creatures.
Banning probe did hurt storm in some ways, but becuase of Baral, dont know did you see, they just shifted into something else. They dont run anymore Assension so probe is not crucial here.They just shifted into some package with Gifts + some numbers of Remand. I like the way the deck looks, but it needs more push and cards to be better overal. I do agree that its slower, but still think we, and any other deck can hateout Puresteel combo more then this deck(however, Eidolon wrecks both decks).
And about which route is better, If you closely look Puresteel Combo, because we was talking about that, they actualy have only 0-2 cards in first game to interact with route, becuase they only run 0-2 Swan Song's. However, I wont tell anyone which route is better because everyone likes another way, and we are all here to discuss about that. Thats the best thing in magic, you can do same things on different ways.
Of course there are means to fight these decks its just a matter of having them. meta changes weekly and we need to stay on top!
RBW Mardu Pyro
X Eldrazi
Pauper:
X Affinity
G Stompy
Could you discuss some of your card choices for the Kiki list vs. the bant list you'd actually posted on Reddit and most of all how this configuration improves upon any Kiki Chord/Company/Evolution/Nahiri build?
My specific questions outside of that would be:
1. Mana Dork split - 2 Birds/3 Hierarchs?
2. 1 Ewit/3 Rallier split?
3. 2/2 Split of Evo between MD & Board?
4. 3/1 Felidar/Resto split?
5. 0 MD or SB Selfless Spirit/Spellskite to protect the combo?
6. Gideon in the board?
7. Why play Saheeli Combo at all? The combo itself can by interacted with by every piece of removal/disruption played in the format.
I'm sorry if you were confused. I'm directly referencing the list containing Kiki, not the bant list containing just Saheeli.
There is no way that manabase casts kiki if you draw her, even by hoogland standar that is streetching it.
Only 2 evolutions seems like a bad way to dig, Oath if Nissa does not find silver bullits, the streangh of the deck.
At best Felidar Guardian has the combi in play, but nest best just an oath in play. I do not think a 1/4 dig 3 down is good enough in it's own.
Playing at sorcery speed is bad.
What I do like is going voice or wall into rallier with Evo. The card draw off wall might be rerelvant with so much combo potensial. Voice into evo into pia and kiran is also good. With no chord of coco gadon teeg becomes a good card vs tron. Rallier ramps, and he also has a minor combo with oath of nissa (does wonders with felidar as well.)
If you want to continue down that line of deck play 4 evolutions. I also do not know why you need the 1 restoration angel. Take out 2 pridemage, 1 resto angel, put in 2 more evolutions for consistency and sidebioard silver bullits, and change in 1 Reclamation Sage. Sage is better with evolution the pridemage.
Also vida Thor is right. Sorcery speed is bad. Cryptic command will bend you over if you play only on your turn.
May i ask how your tron/big mana matchups have been?
I really, really like how this deck looks. There is some thing what I would change, but overall I like how and what this deck is doing!
naclmolecule if you are already going for delerium, have you playtested with Goyf? - 1 Renegade rallier, - 1 eternal witnes, -1 restoration angel, - 1 voice of resurgency + 4 Tarmogoyf. You would go up to 7 very agressive 2 drops. There are also more targets for your rallier, or resto into rallier.
Plan A is just to attack with greatures, with an undercosted giant being the spearhead. And then if they tap out or side out to deal with that you can still get them with the Combo. I would try it at least and se how they are.
https://deckstats.net/decks/20993/671299-kiki-chord
Still undecided whether this deck is still well positioned in the current meta. Let us carry on and see.
PS: against griselhoalbrand, I won game 1 and lost the two last, each time with a path on the stack (turn 2 and then turn 3). Funny times. No, path won't save you in this one !