Yeah how are you gonna get Dromoka out in time anyway?
You can easily hard cast Dromoka on T3. But yeah, I forgot about Grand Abolisher.
6 mana with consistency on T3 is very ambitious (and I have tested very non conventional ramp myself).
For a while I was running 9 dorks plus Courser so it wasn't uncommon to have access to six mana on T6. It's more unlikely to draw Dromoka, but I'm off that plan anyway in favor of Abolisher.
Yeah how are you gonna get Dromoka out in time anyway?
You can easily hard cast Dromoka on T3. But yeah, I forgot about Grand Abolisher.
Easily how?
T1 Land & Bird, T2 Land, Dork and Wall of Roots, T3 Land is 6 mana. It's not going to happen regularly, but it can happen. I'm off that plan, but that's how the math worked for me.
so i'm a long time skred player and i'm thinking of getting out of skred and going to kiki chord. is there a really good list to start with (i've read the ultimate guide on SCG and i fell in love with the deck)? i have most of the deck (minus a few voices, a couple of chords and a couple of fetches) and think it could be a perfect fit for me.
There's a lot of disagreement on what the best build is. It's a very customizable deck. I enjoy the lists similar to the hoogland builds. My best advice would be to pick a build and test it in your meta, then tweak it.
so i'm a long time skred player and i'm thinking of getting out of skred and going to kiki chord. is there a really good list to start with (i've read the ultimate guide on SCG and i fell in love with the deck)? i have most of the deck (minus a few voices, a couple of chords and a couple of fetches) and think it could be a perfect fit for me.
It really depends on your meta and how you play. I started following Hoogland's list then started tweaking it for my own meta.
1.) It's not a creature
2.) It is a pure value card - it doesn't help us shut down other decks, nor does it advance our own combo. All it does is help us out-value. And it is conditional on us already having a strong board state - more than 1 creature on board that has a useful ETB trigger. It's great when you're way ahead (multiple creatures on board), and sort of crap when you're behind (no creatures on board). If you only had 1 creature on board, you'd much rather have another restoration angel.
Basically, it's a good win-more card in a deck that usually, when it's winning, stays that way.
Coco Elves are a hell of a tough matchup. I board in EE and all the removal I can find but it's not always enough. Tips?
I've found it to be tricky as well. White enchantments are generally helpful - Worship and Ghostly Prison - and so is Eidolon of Rhetoric if you can get it out early. I try to keep Archdruid off the board ASAP, then Chord for Pontiff, but it's never usually that simple. I went 0-2 against the deck at regional (they did have some pretty filthy draws to be fair), but haven't played it since. I know Burgle mentioned that killing the Heritage Druid on site was the way to go, and while I haven't tried it myself, it does make sense.
Yeah Heritage, Archdruid, Ezuri... all dangerous as hell. Unfortunately Worship is not a hard lock as they can still drain you with Shaman of the Pack.
Coco Elves are a hell of a tough matchup. I board in EE and all the removal I can find but it's not always enough. Tips?
It ultimately feels like a bad matchup across the board. Board in any and all removal you can and then attempt to rebuy it via EWit and EWit/Resto chains. You have to control their board until you can combo out.
Coco Elves are a hell of a tough matchup. I board in EE and all the removal I can find but it's not always enough. Tips?
It ultimately feels like a bad matchup across the board. Board in any and all removal you can and then attempt to rebuy it via EWit and EWit/Resto chains. You have to control their board until you can combo out.
Round 2, lost in 2 to affinity. Games went long, but Not hitting enough removal either game sealed the deal in his favor.
Round 3, Drew with blue moon. First game, fetched a forest, then played overgrown tomb, then stomping ground and he had bolted my bird turn 1. I took too long to start getting white sources and he cast moon and beat me with a batterskull. I beat him down through permission game 2, Game 3 I forced him to have the counters twice and we ran out of turns.
Round 4, My friends maze's end deck. Both games I had voice out and forced him to fog as well as established the combo. It wasn't really a match.
Aside: Artvi, any chance we could hide the matchup overviews under spoiler tags (Spoiler: Scapeshift, Spoiler: Jund, etc) in the original post? It's going to get a bit overwhelming as we get up to like 10 of them. =)
ELVES
Overview: COCO elves is a board-flood aggro/combo deck that generally runs with either Lead the Stampede or Chord of Calling to overwhelm the board and then win with an anthem effect. The deck accelerates extremely quickly using dorks like Llanowar Elves, Elvish Mystics and Heritage Druids. They will generally use cards like Shaman of the Pack or Ezuri, Renegade Leader to finish you.
How to play the matchup: It's easy to confuse this deck with something like Merfolk. They're tribal, they run a lord or two, they swing for a billion at some point? Actually, most elves decks run 1 lord card as a 4-of: Elvish Archdruid. As such, this is an engine deck: They want to get a lot of mana to be able to chain their card-draw spells like Lead the Stampede and Collected Company. They have a number of mana accelerants that scale with the number of cards on the board (heritage druid,elvish arch-druid). Your goal in this matchup is to delay and disrupt their mana acceleration until you can combo off, which you can usually do uninterrupted because they run no disruption or interaction.
The primary engine cards in an elves deck are heritage druids/elvish arch-druids and Coco/Lead the Stampede (card advantage). We can't really interact with coco/lead, so we have to interact with the druids. If you can keep them off the board, you can limit elves to being a pretty crappy zoo/coco deck. As soon as one of those engines gets online, they will get to an overwhelming board state by basically dumping their entire hand out. Like all combo/accelerant decks, they also have some nut draws that it's very tough to beat - you will probably lose those games. But otherwise, this is a very winnable matchup: disrupt their acceleration and combo out as fast as possible.
Good chord targets:
Eternal Witness. You will win the game two turns after you chord for witness, with the chord->witness, chord->resto, chord-> kiki. If you think you can survive two turns, get this chain started.
Orzhov Pontiff. Without a lord, kills all the mana dorks. Great play early in the game, particularly if opponent has over-committed to the board.
Eidolon of Rhetoric. Last-ditch chord target. If you have been unable to disrupt the engine, and need to stop a terrifying heritage druid/stampede/coco chain, get Eidolon on board. It will usually stick around until they chord for rec sage. Eidolon can buy you time in this matchup.
Good post-board options:
Phyrexian Revoker, naming Heritage Druid (if nothing has been played), or a mana dork if they have 2+ of the same dork on the table, can do a lot of work.
Lightning Helix: Because the elves deck has a bunch of cards that are independently weak, but strong together, it's almost always worth it to trade 1-for-1 with one of their good cards. Helixing Ezuri, Archdruid, Heritage Druid is always a good plan.
Engineered Explosives: The only real board wipe we play. Don't get greedy with this - you want to use it to prevent their acceleration, not to fix a board they've already accelerated into. At that point, it's probably too late. You will almost always use this on 1.
I generally board out Reveillark, Qasali Pridemage, Lone Missionary, Spellskite, and Fulminator Mage. When looking at an opening hand, ask: What turn do I get to combo out on with this hand? And how much disruption do I have? If the answer is "Not sure" and "None", pitch the hand.
Tough opponent. G1 he combos me out turn 3. G2 I land an Ooze T2, a timely Fulminator takes out his Overgrown Tomb just before he draws Abrupt Decay. G3, I mull to a 6 card hand with Ooze, and just have to hope I can stick it T2. Unfortunately, Thoughtseize. He combos me T4. 0-1, 1-2.
R2: vs 4 Color Gifts.
G1 he strips my hand clean, but doesn't do much, and I draw a Chord and combo him after a Sin Collector clears the way. G2 he taps out EOT for a Gifts, I'm able to Chord for Scooze and eat his fatty + Rites. Never played this matchup before, it doesn't seem too bad, although my opponents draws were a bit subpar. 1-1, 3-2.
R3: vs RUG Midrange
G1 he had T2 and T3 Goyfs on the play, but they were only 3/4s and my Walls were able to hold them off until I stabilized. Reveillark was great, he couldn't break it and it just kept clocking him for 4 in the air, plowing through P+K Thopters. G2 Sin Collector + Resto just ripped his hand to shreds, Restos closed the game out. 2-1, 5-2.
R4: vs UW Titan
G1 I take my time developing my board and force him to Wrath away a Bird, a Wall of Omens, and a Pridemage that had gotten some solid beats on. I play out a few more creatures post Wrath, including Wall of Roots and Scooze. He makes the mistake of seeing I'm tapped out, and Snapping back the Wrath, only for me to eat it in response with mana from the Wall, and scoops on the spot. G2 was super super grindy, he had 2 Jaces to my 1 Path. Jace does quite a bit of work, but eventually I stick an Eidolon of Rhetoric, and he's forced to lose the Jace to flashback the Path in his yard, killing my Eidolon and turning on 2 Snapcasters in his hand that I knew about. He then tries to Snap Ojutai's Command to get back Jace, but I Chord for Ooze in response and eat it. Ooze grows large enough to basically become The Abyss, he finds a Path to deal with it though, and we're back at a boardstall, his Walls and 2/1s holding off my 2/1s and 2/2s. With Kiki my only card in hand, my next two drawsteps were Spellskite, Chord. I Chord for Resto, clear the way with a Sin Collector blink, then play Kiki and combo off. 3-1. 7-2.
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6 mana with consistency on T3 is very ambitious (and I have tested very non conventional ramp myself).
For a while I was running 9 dorks plus Courser so it wasn't uncommon to have access to six mana on T6. It's more unlikely to draw Dromoka, but I'm off that plan anyway in favor of Abolisher.
Easily how?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
T1 Land & Bird, T2 Land, Dork and Wall of Roots, T3 Land is 6 mana. It's not going to happen regularly, but it can happen. I'm off that plan, but that's how the math worked for me.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
It really depends on your meta and how you play. I started following Hoogland's list then started tweaking it for my own meta.
1.) It's not a creature
2.) It is a pure value card - it doesn't help us shut down other decks, nor does it advance our own combo. All it does is help us out-value. And it is conditional on us already having a strong board state - more than 1 creature on board that has a useful ETB trigger. It's great when you're way ahead (multiple creatures on board), and sort of crap when you're behind (no creatures on board). If you only had 1 creature on board, you'd much rather have another restoration angel.
Basically, it's a good win-more card in a deck that usually, when it's winning, stays that way.
WGR Naya Rock
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I've found it to be tricky as well. White enchantments are generally helpful - Worship and Ghostly Prison - and so is Eidolon of Rhetoric if you can get it out early. I try to keep Archdruid off the board ASAP, then Chord for Pontiff, but it's never usually that simple. I went 0-2 against the deck at regional (they did have some pretty filthy draws to be fair), but haven't played it since. I know Burgle mentioned that killing the Heritage Druid on site was the way to go, and while I haven't tried it myself, it does make sense.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
It ultimately feels like a bad matchup across the board. Board in any and all removal you can and then attempt to rebuy it via EWit and EWit/Resto chains. You have to control their board until you can combo out.
Linvala is very effective here.
Round 1, beat 8 rack in 2.
Round 2, lost in 2 to affinity. Games went long, but Not hitting enough removal either game sealed the deal in his favor.
Round 3, Drew with blue moon. First game, fetched a forest, then played overgrown tomb, then stomping ground and he had bolted my bird turn 1. I took too long to start getting white sources and he cast moon and beat me with a batterskull. I beat him down through permission game 2, Game 3 I forced him to have the counters twice and we ran out of turns.
Round 4, My friends maze's end deck. Both games I had voice out and forced him to fog as well as established the combo. It wasn't really a match.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
ELVES
Overview: COCO elves is a board-flood aggro/combo deck that generally runs with either Lead the Stampede or Chord of Calling to overwhelm the board and then win with an anthem effect. The deck accelerates extremely quickly using dorks like Llanowar Elves, Elvish Mystics and Heritage Druids. They will generally use cards like Shaman of the Pack or Ezuri, Renegade Leader to finish you.
How to play the matchup: It's easy to confuse this deck with something like Merfolk. They're tribal, they run a lord or two, they swing for a billion at some point? Actually, most elves decks run 1 lord card as a 4-of: Elvish Archdruid. As such, this is an engine deck: They want to get a lot of mana to be able to chain their card-draw spells like Lead the Stampede and Collected Company. They have a number of mana accelerants that scale with the number of cards on the board (heritage druid,elvish arch-druid). Your goal in this matchup is to delay and disrupt their mana acceleration until you can combo off, which you can usually do uninterrupted because they run no disruption or interaction.
The primary engine cards in an elves deck are heritage druids/elvish arch-druids and Coco/Lead the Stampede (card advantage). We can't really interact with coco/lead, so we have to interact with the druids. If you can keep them off the board, you can limit elves to being a pretty crappy zoo/coco deck. As soon as one of those engines gets online, they will get to an overwhelming board state by basically dumping their entire hand out. Like all combo/accelerant decks, they also have some nut draws that it's very tough to beat - you will probably lose those games. But otherwise, this is a very winnable matchup: disrupt their acceleration and combo out as fast as possible.
Good chord targets:
Eternal Witness. You will win the game two turns after you chord for witness, with the chord->witness, chord->resto, chord-> kiki. If you think you can survive two turns, get this chain started.
Orzhov Pontiff. Without a lord, kills all the mana dorks. Great play early in the game, particularly if opponent has over-committed to the board.
Eidolon of Rhetoric. Last-ditch chord target. If you have been unable to disrupt the engine, and need to stop a terrifying heritage druid/stampede/coco chain, get Eidolon on board. It will usually stick around until they chord for rec sage. Eidolon can buy you time in this matchup.
Good post-board options:
Phyrexian Revoker, naming Heritage Druid (if nothing has been played), or a mana dork if they have 2+ of the same dork on the table, can do a lot of work.
Lightning Helix: Because the elves deck has a bunch of cards that are independently weak, but strong together, it's almost always worth it to trade 1-for-1 with one of their good cards. Helixing Ezuri, Archdruid, Heritage Druid is always a good plan.
Engineered Explosives: The only real board wipe we play. Don't get greedy with this - you want to use it to prevent their acceleration, not to fix a board they've already accelerated into. At that point, it's probably too late. You will almost always use this on 1.
I generally board out Reveillark, Qasali Pridemage, Lone Missionary, Spellskite, and Fulminator Mage. When looking at an opening hand, ask: What turn do I get to combo out on with this hand? And how much disruption do I have? If the answer is "Not sure" and "None", pitch the hand.
WGR Naya Rock
R1: vs Grishoalbrand.
Tough opponent. G1 he combos me out turn 3. G2 I land an Ooze T2, a timely Fulminator takes out his Overgrown Tomb just before he draws Abrupt Decay. G3, I mull to a 6 card hand with Ooze, and just have to hope I can stick it T2. Unfortunately, Thoughtseize. He combos me T4. 0-1, 1-2.
R2: vs 4 Color Gifts.
G1 he strips my hand clean, but doesn't do much, and I draw a Chord and combo him after a Sin Collector clears the way. G2 he taps out EOT for a Gifts, I'm able to Chord for Scooze and eat his fatty + Rites. Never played this matchup before, it doesn't seem too bad, although my opponents draws were a bit subpar. 1-1, 3-2.
R3: vs RUG Midrange
G1 he had T2 and T3 Goyfs on the play, but they were only 3/4s and my Walls were able to hold them off until I stabilized. Reveillark was great, he couldn't break it and it just kept clocking him for 4 in the air, plowing through P+K Thopters. G2 Sin Collector + Resto just ripped his hand to shreds, Restos closed the game out. 2-1, 5-2.
R4: vs UW Titan
G1 I take my time developing my board and force him to Wrath away a Bird, a Wall of Omens, and a Pridemage that had gotten some solid beats on. I play out a few more creatures post Wrath, including Wall of Roots and Scooze. He makes the mistake of seeing I'm tapped out, and Snapping back the Wrath, only for me to eat it in response with mana from the Wall, and scoops on the spot. G2 was super super grindy, he had 2 Jaces to my 1 Path. Jace does quite a bit of work, but eventually I stick an Eidolon of Rhetoric, and he's forced to lose the Jace to flashback the Path in his yard, killing my Eidolon and turning on 2 Snapcasters in his hand that I knew about. He then tries to Snap Ojutai's Command to get back Jace, but I Chord for Ooze in response and eat it. Ooze grows large enough to basically become The Abyss, he finds a Path to deal with it though, and we're back at a boardstall, his Walls and 2/1s holding off my 2/1s and 2/2s. With Kiki my only card in hand, my next two drawsteps were Spellskite, Chord. I Chord for Resto, clear the way with a Sin Collector blink, then play Kiki and combo off. 3-1. 7-2.