Kitchen Finks is not a sacred cow. Damn, do you think for yourself at all? We're not Melira. It's good sometimes, and you can choose to play it if you want obviously. It isn't even the best way to beat burn, which is why most people played it originally. Seriously, I've lost plenty of games against burn with a resolved Finks. It isn't a trump in the match up, it's somewhere between fine and good. Feed the Clan is trump here. It counters 3 of their cards when it resolves. I'm not playing them right now, because I don't care about burn currently, but if I did, those would easily go in before Sorin or Finks. In fact, go watch this game one.
And now you're talking about Sorin in control matches? Okay, but why? He'd be sub par there too, and our deck does a great job against pure control. I'm not looking to have broad sideboard cards. This isn't standard. We have major holes in our gameplan that can be exploited by unfair or linear decks. We don't need more fair stuff in our sb - that's the entire composition of our mb.
Congrats. You found one deck out of how many (and he didn't even get to top 16)? Go ahead. Tell me how many green decks there were. Don't worry. I looked it up for you. Out of all the decks in the top 8 at GP Charlotte this year (where you pulled your one example from), NOT A SINGLE ONE HAD FEED THE CLAN IN THEIR 75. That number includes 2 Jund decks, 1 Domri Zoo deck, 1 Collected Bant deck and 1 Scapeshift deck all of which have been candidates in the past to run cards like Feed the Clan in the sideboard at least. Do I need to go any further? I will anyway.
No, Kitchen Finks is not a sacred cow, but it's pretty damn good. In fact, having persist on a solid body makes it pretty good against the field. I even love when it catches a Path to Exile because that's supposedly the "cleanest" way to answer it. The only times it doesn't get value is when your opponent has Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Grafdigger's Cage or Leyline of the Void in play. Only one of those things isn't considered narrow. By the way, you can even find at least 2 decks playing Kitchen Finks in their sideboard at the top 8 of GP Charlotte!
Uh yea, I remember PT FTR. What about it? Kitchen Finks was the only thing that allowed Jacob to continue playing magic, or what? You're telling me Feed the Clans in place of one of those Kitchen Finks was going to win him that game? Is that seriously where your heading with this? I can tell you this: There aren't many 3-CMC drops that would even be playable in that position unless you can name one. A solid body, life gain and persist. That sure does seem so much better than 5 life... oops, I mean 3 life in Jacob's position.
I have serious doubts about how much you've played this deck. I've played both sides when it comes to this deck and control, and I know for a fact that Grixis and Jeskai control (especially Jeskai) run us down hard. They are playing all the removal in the world combined with permission and a lot of recursion in the case of Grixis control. THEN they truly beat us down with Snapcaster Mage and sweepers after sideboarding. Their game plan is literally to weather the storm, and then find any threat to finish us off. If you think this deck is going to blitz them into oblivion, you're just wrong. If you didn't get lucky with Lingering Souls and/or Voice of Resurgence, they would either have to be bad or really unlucky for you to blitz them into oblivion. I mean even versions of Jeskai control prior to Nahiri, the Harbinger owned us so, yea, you need something for control matchups. I don't care if it's man-lands, planewalkers, whatever, but you will need something. This deck is a midrange hunter. Period. It just happens to have decent game against aggro, but it does not do "a great job against control." At best, you can say that this deck has a plan to beat control. The ability to execute that plan isn't great.
You are, however, correct in that we need help with combo matchups the most, but what's your plan to deal with them? All we can do is turn creatures sideways or play the discard package that a traditional midrange Abzan would play. Either way, all combo decks are terrible matchups for us. We have to hope they stumble. They must stumble for us to even have a chance. If you know of a solid game plan to deal with them, by all means, please enlighten us.
Wtf is Feed the Clans doing for you? Seriously? You mention Burn, but then want to come back with "but I'm not worried about the Burn matchup." Oh really? Why mention it then? In any case, you do know Burn doesn't play a tap-out style any more? They actually hold up Skullcrack and Atarka's Command unless it's going to kill you immediately. You might catch Zoo trying to pull the trigger on an Atarka's Command too early, but that's it really. I know they can also use it against the Kitchen Finks trigger, but that's still a win, man! I still have something to show for it in that case. How will it feel when they blow out your Feed the Clans? No one wants to play Feed the Clans, man. Well, except you apparently. Other folks play it when they have to, but you apparently love it so much that you refuse to give it up in the face of raw facts. Do you think pros like not playing the best cards? I'm not personally saying you're wrong. You can do whatever you like, but don't spread misinformation like it's the gospel.
My point was that Finks didn't save Jacob, not that Feed the Clans would. Mostly I want to emphasize that leaning on Finks against Burn isn't going to work as well as you might expect. Take it or throw it back.
I was pointing out a deck that used Feed the Clan because you asked. Feed the Clans gains you 10 life, that's what I expect it do. Against burn, that card is better than Sorin, which is all that I was saying. If a two mana instant is easy for them to play around, then a four mana planeswalker is even easier, right? You kinda turned it into something much more. I'm literally ignoring the burn match up in my current build, that's why I said I'm not worried about it. Sorry for mentioning it at this point.
Actually, you've kinda ran wild with everything. I never mentioned I had some magical answer to combo.
I don't share your experience when you say control runs us down hard. They have all the removal, true. We can still get there thanks to our resilient threats and lands and we can line up really well against their one for ones. If we flood out or draw all Paths, I know I'm losing too. I dunno the match up % but I know I don't feel like a huge underdog when I've played Jeskai lately.
My point was that Finks didn't save Jacob, not that Feed the Clans would. Mostly I want to emphasize that leaning on Finks against Burn isn't going to work as well as you might expect. Take it or throw it back.
Don't be an idiot. Very few cards could've saved him there. Kitchen Finks actually kept the door of possibility open for him a lot longer than it should've been open. Otherwise, he's just sitting there praying for a Siege Rhino he can cast. In fact, your point just emphasizes how much better Kitchen Finks is than Feed the Clan. Feed the Clan would just prolong his death in that scenario.
I was pointing out a deck that used Feed the Clan because you asked. Feed the Clans gains you 10 life, that's what I expect it do. Against burn, that card is better than Sorin, which is all that I was saying. If a two mana instant is easy for them to play around, then a four mana planeswalker is even easier, right? You kinda turned it into something much more. I'm literally ignoring the burn match up in my current build, that's why I said I'm not worried about it. Sorry for mentioning it at this point.
Don't be daft. I said to point out a deck AND compare it to all the decks that could play it. You have to read all the words. The bottom line is that your crap arguments just don't justify you're belief in Feed the Clan. It's just garbage. And to your point about a 4-CMC planeswalker, yea, it's a lot harder to keep wasting Skullcrack and Atarka's Command on something that keeps ticking up on the board as opposed to a one-time deal. You are aware that the +1 on Sorin lasts until your next turn and hits all your creatures?
Also, Feed the Clan only gains 10 life when you have ferocious. That's not easily achieved even in Jund. It's a poor assumption that many keep making. For instance, would you please count for us exactly how many turns Jacob had ferocious in the video you linked?
Actually, you've kinda ran wild with everything. I never mentioned I had some magical answer to combo.
Nah, I was actually trying to cut you off from talking about other match ups that you most likely have no idea about.
I don't share your experience when you say control runs us down hard. They have all the removal, true. We can still get there thanks to our resilient threats and lands and we can line up really well against their one for ones. If we flood out or draw all Paths, I know I'm losing too. I dunno the match up % but I know I don't feel like a huge underdog when I've played Jeskai lately.
There's nothing to share. I've been there on both sides of that match up. The only "resilient threats" are the ones I already mentioned: Spirits from Lingering Souls and Voice of Resurgence. The spirits take too much to answer without sweepers and Voice forces you to play at sorcery speed if it doesn't get countered. Not to mention Kitchen Finks is good in game 1, but oh wait! You don't even play them! In any case, they all can become weak to post-sideboard shenanigans and sweepers. The last part is really important: Sweepers. They're the reason we can't go full-tilt against control, especially after sideboarding. The first time you run enough of your guys into a mid-game Damnation or and an early-game Anger of the Gods, you're done. It's over. They're 1-for-1 removal takes over from there. Or I guess you could try slow-rolling your guys out. I'm sure that will work out just fine, because control decks don't play better when given more time, right?
I don't know man. You seem like a troll so I'm done.
This post has been infracted for flaming by Lantern
-ktkenshinx-
Well, hopefully the flame war and personal attacks are done.
I play 4 Finks and I'd never cut any of them. Too important against burn and zoo, also great against BGx. I believe in my testing I had a 60% winrate against burn game 1, and that was heavily because of 4 main deck finks, with help from Scooze and Rhino. If I expected lots of burn, I'd sideboard Firewalker as well. My experience with Zoo playing Paths makes me really like Finks, because it gains life and buys time for our better cards to win us the game, or it takes a path and gives us a better chance of sticking a game-winning Rhino or Liege. I really value the incremental life-gain of Finks and Rhino. As I play Restoration Angel in the sideboard, I also think having more good targets for it in the main deck is fantastic
I'm also adamant that we're 45/55 at least against Grixis Delve and Nahiri America. I've played against the decks plenty of times, I've played America Control extensively in the past, and ran it against Little Kid 7-8 times or so. It's a very winable match-up if we draw decently and so do they. Depending on your sideboard, I find the match typically turns in our favor. Cards like Celestial Purge, Painful Truths, Thragtusk, and Sigarda, Host of Herons are amazing. I've found most of those decks run somewhere between 2 and 4 relevant board wipes post board. We can absolutely play around those with a decent draw, assuming they don't draw the nuts. Shockingly, most players don't draw the nuts.
I don't know if we're favored against URx control, but to say that we get slaughtered is simply not true based on the dozens of matches I've tested against them. I personally have a winning record, but that could be variance or opponent quality. But I feel like our threats match-up very well against their answers often enough for us to just win. If I was horribly concerned about the match-up, I'd add a handful of cards to the sideboard to try and tip it in our favor.
That dude is so damn angry, it must be stressful. All you do is insult me and then give your exact opposite opinion, so yes, this discussion is going nowhere as you've entrenched yourself because you took everything so personally. I mean, you really took all this personally from how your attacking me for my opinion on cards.
And yes, SSJRanulf, I share similar experiences against Jeskai. We can simply line up well against Bolt, Helix, Remand and Leak, which can just win us some games. They can also kill all our stuff and we lose. It's not as terrible it's been described, in my experiences.
If you're playing against Zoo and 8whack, then I see how Finks is better there; doubly so with Resto. I had mentioned it is specifically against burn where I've been unimpressed with Finks.
Well, hopefully the flame war and personal attacks are done.
I play 4 Finks and I'd never cut any of them. Too important against burn and zoo, also great against BGx. I believe in my testing I had a 60% winrate against burn game 1, and that was heavily because of 4 main deck finks, with help from Scooze and Rhino. If I expected lots of burn, I'd sideboard Firewalker as well. My experience with Zoo playing Paths makes me really like Finks, because it gains life and buys time for our better cards to win us the game, or it takes a path and gives us a better chance of sticking a game-winning Rhino or Liege. I really value the incremental life-gain of Finks and Rhino. As I play Restoration Angel in the sideboard, I also think having more good targets for it in the main deck is fantastic
I'm also adamant that we're 45/55 at least against Grixis Delve and Nahiri America. I've played against the decks plenty of times, I've played America Control extensively in the past, and ran it against Little Kid 7-8 times or so. It's a very winable match-up if we draw decently and so do they. Depending on your sideboard, I find the match typically turns in our favor. Cards like Celestial Purge, Painful Truths, Thragtusk, and Sigarda, Host of Herons are amazing. I've found most of those decks run somewhere between 2 and 4 relevant board wipes post board. We can absolutely play around those with a decent draw, assuming they don't draw the nuts. Shockingly, most players don't draw the nuts.
I don't know if we're favored against URx control, but to say that we get slaughtered is simply not true based on the dozens of matches I've tested against them. I personally have a winning record, but that could be variance or opponent quality. But I feel like our threats match-up very well against their answers often enough for us to just win. If I was horribly concerned about the match-up, I'd add a handful of cards to the sideboard to try and tip it in our favor.
Would you consider 45/55 against Jeskai control "doing a great job"? I only ask because you're playing 4 Kitchen Finks, which gives you a good chance to take game 1 outright, assuming a standard build otherwise, and you're also playing cards most folks would consider "proper" out of the sideboard. I feel the latest versions of Jeskai that are packing Ancestral Vision make that 45/55 percentage actually worse. If your testing shows differently, I'd love to hear about it because the addition of AV has become overwhelming lately.
I also play 2 Anafenza, but it was in response to Melira CoCo and Kiki-Chord. It still has pretty good game against Dredge, but I don't think this deck fears Dredge like a lot of other decks do. I've personally been packing a lot of natural and sideboard hate for them as it was. Nowadays, I might get to up my Rest in Peace count to 2 in the board instead of 1.
That dude is so damn angry, it must be stressful. All you do is insult me and then give your exact opposite opinion, so yes, this discussion is going nowhere as you've entrenched yourself because you took everything so personally. I mean, you really took all this personally from how your attacking me for my opinion on cards.
And yes, SSJRanulf, I share similar experiences against Jeskai. We can simply line up well against Bolt, Helix, Remand and Leak, which can just win us some games. They can also kill all our stuff and we lose. It's not as terrible it's been described, in my experiences.
If you're playing against Zoo and 8whack, then I see how Finks is better there; doubly so with Resto. I had mentioned it is specifically against burn where I've been unimpressed with Finks.
Actually I was laughing through most of those posts. I actually posted some of your comments to my play test group. Some of them found it equally hilarious.
To your points about the Jeskai matchup, what you describe is odd for an entire match because most of them board out Lightning Helix and maybe some number of Lightning Bolts. They're just bad as removal against decks that have a lot of 4-toughness creatures (Loxodon Smiter, Anafenza, the Foremost, Wilt-Leaf Liege and Siege Rhino), and this deck plays enough 4-toughness creatures that most Jeskai pilots would treat it like Bant Eldrazi or other decks of the like. Most of the time that means going heavy on sweepers and Elspeth, Sun's Champion, which is gaining in popularity. If you're still seeing Lightning Helix after sideboarding, I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to just burn you out of the game in a tempo control game. I don't consider the tempo-control a good plan, but I've seen worse.
Also, I didn't notice anyone comment on the Abzan Charm situation... Any opinions out there?
There are plenty of opinions on Abzan Charm already. You would have to scroll back a few pages or just use the search feature. Basically, you either love the flexibility or would rather just play other things that deal with specific problems. I'm in the camp of playing things that deal with my problems. In fact, I'd rather play Painful Truths main than play Abzan Charm, and it doesn't deal with problems so much as gas you back up.
Good to know. Thanks for the opinion. I will be trying out Painful Truths as an alternative to Abzan Charm. Especially seeing as I rarely use its other features (exile or add counters).
@LesBluets: I'll post my current list tonight or tomorrow.
@chaos21: I've been winning about 55%. AV is good, but I've won a large amount of games that go Turn 1 Mana Dork, they go turn 1 AV, I go turn 2 Smiter, I go turn 3 Rhino and win from there. If AV is a seriously problem, I'd play 2-3 copies of Painful Truths; our cards on average are so much more powerful than their cards. Voice, Finks, Souls, Rhino, Scooze, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel; these are all worth 1.5 to 2 cards. Anger of the God's is the only card I'm really worried about, at all. By playing less mana dorks, I find my draws are consistently better than were they were in the past. An AV that draws Bolt/Electrolize, Land, and Spell Snare/AV/Mana Leak is not particularly a 3 cards I'm worried about.
If I just wanted to destroy the deck I'd maindeck two copies of Brimaz instead of Finks. He's better against Nahiri and typically better against their removal in general. Turn 1 dork, turn 2 Smiter, turn 3 Brimaz makes Anger of the God's an awful card.
It's a loseable match-up, for sure, but I don't mind playing it. Blue deck in general really struggle against Little Kid in my experience playing the deck. Nahiri isn't a deck that I'd be scared of seeing multipul times in an event; I'm much more concerned about Tron, Affinity, Ad Nauseam, Boggles, and other decks that attack from angles we aren't directly beat to crush.
As for what a "great job" is, I frankly refuse to weigh in on petty flaming. I hold this community to a high standard of respect, and I'm thankful that we have moderators who enforce it.
I guess I don't get the consistency of openers that you do then. I know card-for-card that I should be stronger, but it never seems to work out that way. Usually my mana dork catches a Lightning Bolt or my Voice gets a Spell Snare. I'll be interested to see how many mana dorks you play.
As far as the flaming comment, it was a legitimate question. I usually consider a matchup good if my testing shows a floor of 60%+. You say you it's 45/55 and call it "decent." I find that interesting because that's still essentially a coin flip to me. I mean I'm asking you. You don't have to say anything towards anyone else
I guess I don't get the consistency of openers that you do then. I know card-for-card that I should be stronger, but it never seems to work out that way. Usually my mana dork catches a Lightning Bolt or my Voice gets a Spell Snare. I'll be interested to see how many mana dorks you play.
As far as the flaming comment, it was a legitimate question. I usually consider a matchup good if my testing shows a floor of 60%+. You say you it's 45/55 and call it "decent." I find that interesting because that's still essentially a coin flip to me. I mean I'm asking you. You don't have to say anything towards anyone else
I guess my guide is: 45% - 55% winrate is "decent". 37.5% to 44% is "unfavorable", worse than 33% is horrific, with 10% being unwinable. 56%-62.5% is favorable, 75% is amazing, and 90% is unlosable. I know of virtually no match-ups where Little Kid wins more than 70% of the time (burn) or loses more than 30% of the time (Tron). I suppose Tron with 4 maindecked Ugins would potentially be a 25% winrate or lower, while burn without Attarka's Command, say Mardu burn (without Crackling Doom) would be 75% winrate or higher.
I do lose some games where they go turn 1 bolt mana dork, turn 2 counter spell, turn 3 take the turn off, turn 4 Nahiri your 3 drop. But overall find I do OK. I also think I play more 2 drops than most people do, so if my guy eats a bolt I'm OK with that.
Here is the latest version of my deck. I'm pretty happy with it, but I'll discuss some potential changes bellow:
A word on the main deck. I play 21 lands, and I haven't had significant issues across my hundreds of recorded and tested games. I'm pretty good at taking a mulligan or two when needed. I like it better at 21 lands than when I was playing 22. Gavony has screwed me over so many times by producing colorless mana that if I ever play more than 1, I'm cutting a spell for it, not a land. And I'm not in the market for more main-decked gindcore spells.
A 2nd word on the main deck; only 5 mana dorks. I love starting with one, of course. But I lost too many games because I'd draw 3 mana dorks in the 11-14 cards I'd see over the course of the game. Their great turn 1, fine turn 2-3, and don't do as much afterwards. If I had card draw in the main deck, I could see about playing 6. But rather than do that, I made the deck more lean. More aggressive.
And a 3rd, final word on my main deck choices that are unique: Fleecemane Lion. Wonderful card. Nothing else lets you go turn 1 mana dork, turn 2 tap land into 2 drop, turn 3 Liege and swing past a 4/5 Tarmogoyf. Against combo decks, it's a significantly faster clock than Voice is; if they each attack 3 times, Lion bolted them for free. The Lion is a 2 drop that trades with Nacatal, which is key when they kill your mana dork or you don't have one or you want to fetch a tapland. It's ability to become a 4/4 indestructible hexproof creature is phenomenal against BGx, Blue Control, and the mirror match. I'm aware it has many weaknesses; specifically the amount of removal it dies to. This is why I play 2 copies; some matches it's good, other's less so. Voice is better in general, so it gets the nod of 3 copies. Lion will be an unpopular choice, but I'm OK with that. Testing has told me it's fine as cards number 59 and 60 in the deck.
I'd never play Qasali Pridemage in the maindeck. A bear against Jund didn't do it for me, and having exalted doesn't let it be as fast as Lion against combo decks where you're attacking with 2 or 3 creatures.
If I expected a metagame with very little Jund and Junk, and less Zoo, I would cut the 4 Wilt-Leaf Liege and play 4 copies of Restoration Angel instead. Angel is absurd against Nahiri, good against Dredge, good against burn, and fine against Affinity and infect.
I've been thinking about cutting 1 Unmaking from the sideboard, and putting in 1 Celestial Purge. I used to run up to 3 copies of Purge, and it's secretly one of the strongest sideboard cards against modern; it makes your Grixis Delve match-up easy, is great against Nahiri, is very helpful against Jund, great against Delve, and is serviceable against burn.
The moment I get a smell of Delver, I'm putting the 4th Decay back in the main instead of the single Unmaking. No matter the version of Delver, 4 path, 4 decay, efficient life-gain creatures, and Smiter makes it favorable.
As for Tron, go face. Attack as aggressively as possible. Unmaking can snipe a Karn, Decay and Unmaking can destroy some artifacts at key times. If they bother with Wurmcoil or Worldbreaker, you're much further ahead than if their attack with planeswalkers. Ugin is unbeatable. I hardly have sideboard for this match-up because nothing short of 4 Aven Mindcensor, 2 Gaddock Teeg, and 3 Fulminator Mage will help; even then, it's usually not enough.
I also don't really have much for Ad Nauseam. Stony Silence helps, you can bring in Unamaking in place of Path to try and pop an Unlife. It's a bad match-up, and 3 copies of Thoughtseize won't fix it.
I fear Boggles and Infect. Spellskite helps, but I've only got the single copy in the side. Zealous Persecution is strong against Infect and Affinity, as well as Elves, and I do have Unmaking to have more interaction with Boggles. But these decks are built to fight on a axis we're not, so their inherently challenging.
Affinity is bad game one, fine game 2 and 3. Souls is great, and so is some lifegain. Our removal is good, but heavily taxed. Zealous Persecution is really great there, and Stony Silence is downright mandatory. I'd also always bring in Resto; turn 3-4 Rhino, turn 4-5 Resto can get you out of lethal range and put some pressure on them.
Burn's fantastic. We've got a fast clock, great blockers, cheap removal, and plenty of life gain. I usually never kill Edillion; just put Finks, Voice, or Smiter and wait to draw Siege Rhino or additional Finks. Post board we've got lots of additional life gain in Thragtusk and Resto.
Cage is OP. Great against Coco decks of both varieties, great against Dredge. Keep in mind it stops your Finks and your Souls. I also play the best graveyard hate in the game, Rest in Peace. Good against us because it hits Voice, Scooze, Finks, and Souls. But you bring it in when it hurts them more than it hurts you. These days I'm thinking about playing either a 3rd RIP or 1 copy of Faerie Macabre. I don't think I need the 5th piece of graveyard hate yet, but the day might come. I'd like the 3rd RIP over the 3rd Cage.
You will not beat grindy GBx decks or decks like Zoo frequently enough if you don't have good sideboard for them. It's as simple as that; you'll be 65% game one, and 40% game two when Jund sideboards 10 cards and you've got nothing. Thragtusk is amazing: great against GBx, Zoo, Burn, and grindy blue deck. Restoraiton Angel is fantastic, and having 10 great targets after bringing in Thragtusk makes sure it's always producing additional value and keeping you ahead on board. Against grindy decks that don't have enough life total pressure, like Jund, Anguished Unmaking helps take pressure off of Path to answer all of their absurd 4+ drops, like Olivia, Huntmaster, Tasigur, Dark Dwellers, ect.
Not sure what to think on Merfolk. Mana dorks are great against their plan to attack your lands, and you've got great removal. Decay can free up lands or kill guys, Path is good. We've also got plenty of life gain and a swift clock to make the race winable. But they can curve out like a mother, and be surprisingly aggressive in how quickly they turn the corner. It's probably pretty close.
Living End dunks on me. Game 1 often is Scooze it or lose it, unless I can drop 3 Rhino's or something. Game 2-3 is only slightly better; Cage being useless means I've only got half my normal graveyard hate. Thragtusk helps buy time, Resto helps restore the Finks that survives a living end; but it's still a match-up I don't enjoy.
I think that about wraps it up. Any questions, feel free to ask. I love this deck, I've got thousands of games of it under my belt, and I've got it heavily foiled out. It's probably my favorite deck in the history of the game.
Nice post, SSJ. I disagree on the mana dorks based on a few issues. One, we know our best play is a turn one dork into a turn two 3-drop and so on. I simply want to push that. Two, it makes Township much worse, which is a major win condition in my experiences. And finally, the best reason to cut dorks would be to add more 2-drops right? Your deck, while good, has only added one additional two-drop from the norm. And I would argue that doesn't make your list much more aggressive.
Pridemage is obviously at its worse against a deck like Jund, but I'm not sure that's reason enough to not play it. A majority of the games it would be in your sb against them, right? One strong argument for Pridemage is that your deck is very weak to Inkmoth Nexus. There's other ways to kill it, but QP's ability is a pretty low opportunity cost.
This leads me to also say I don't think a majority of your removal post board can miss man lands when Affinity and Infect are popular choices. Has that been a problem for you?
I'll talk about my deck this weekend when I have a chance, but I just want to complain about people playing Anger of the Gods more lately. It's so obnoxious. It makes me want to run 2 Anafenza, The Foremost not because she's amazing against Dredge, Abzan Coco, and the mirror, but because she's got 4 toughness so Smiter isn't the anger resilient early game play.
I'm totally fine against the card post-board, but it's pretty annoying to see people playing 2 copies in the main deck.
I won my last FNM going 3-1-0 using a list pretty similar to SSJRanulf's so I thought I'd give a quick overview. I'm pretty happy with the overall design of the deck but I might change a few things. Here is the list:
The mana base is pretty smooth if your mana dork doesn't eat a bolt t1 but that's why there are 8 2drops in the deck.
Round 1: Jeskai midrange homebrew? He was new so I didn't know what to expect.
Game 1: Smooth game, dork, smiter, rhino, abrupt decay his Soulfire Grand Master he blocks with Geist then I run him over with siege rhino and smiter the turn after.
Game 2: (in 2x choke, out: wilt-leaf and Anafenza) went similar to game 1 but he supreme verdict my smiter and rhino. I kept refilling my board and eventually he couldn't keep up so I won.
1-0
Round 2: GW enchantment lockdown.
Game 1: I had a good opener and I was fast enough to beat him down with smiter before he could play his ghostly prisons and Sphere of Safety.
Game 2: (in: Maelstrom Pulse and Abzan charm, out: Anafenza and lingering souls) This time I want's so lucky, I got him down to 7 but he kept gaining life from Courser of Kruphix and Herald of the Pantheon. I only needed to draw a Maelstrom Pulse on his 3 Sphere of safety to win but after 40 minutes, his Elspeth won the game.
Game 3: out of time.
1-1-0
Round 3: Jund. We are favorable against them so I wasn't worried.
Game 1: He got down pretty low from Thoughtseize and fetch+shock to remove my removals and kill my mana dorks so after his liliana discarded my wilt-leaf he conceded.
Game 2: (in: Anafenza and 2x Celestial Purge. out: 2x Kitchen Finks and voice) This game went a little long with him removing my threats and discarding a couple removals. The board was noble, noble, and rhino on my side and tarmo, grim flayer, and dark confidant on his side. I had gavony and attacked with rhino only for 2x exalted which he blocked with tarmo, grim flayer, and dark confidant so I activate gavony which he missed for my rhino to survive and kill both grim flayer and confidant. I won soon after.
2-1-0
Round 4: Naya burn. Tough matchup IMO and I never won against this guy.
Game 1: He declares he has a perfect opener. and proceeds to play nacatle, swiftspear + nacatle, nacatle + atarka's command. I lose
Game 2: (in 2x Kor Firewalker. out: wilt-leaf and anafenza) I mull to 5 and keep a 1 lander but it has 2 firewalkers so I play nothing on turn 2 he says "thanks for the free win". 2 turns later I have both firewalkers out followed by a rhino so he ends up struggling to push me down with his goblin guides. So I beat him down once I stabilized.
Game 3: After several turns of trading, the board comes down to 2 firewalkers on my side and 2 eidolons, a nacatle, and swiftspear on his side. I am at 3 he is at 5 and he's tapped out. I draw my forth land (shockland), I shock to 1 and play rhino to 4 and he's at 2. His turn he attacks with everything and I block the nacatle, swiftspear, and 1 eidolon. so I am at 2 he can't cast his bolt. I win the next turn.
3-1-0
the last round was pretty intense. I had to keep his eidolons alive to win.
Private Mod Note
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
Good evening everyone !!!
I've been playing wilted abzan at my lgs for a couple of months now with really good results and I have to confess that a big part of that success has come from reading this forum so thank you all for your input.
I decide to finally join the thread to try and give/get input like everyone else.
I wanted to know what your opinion is regarding manlands in this deck. How many would you play ?? and most importantly which ones ?? I'm currently playing 2 shambling vents but I've found myself missing that extra power point that stirring wildwoods have but I like how shambling vents can tap for black mana which is my splash color.
I would definitely go with decay. First of all, thoughtseize is usually good during the first turns of the game, especially turn one, so if you want to maximize its use you have to play 3-4 maindeck. The problem with this is that it takes 4 slots that don't advance your gameplan. You would much rather start with a turn one mana dork. You're an agrro deck and want all of your cards (at least during game one)to go with that plan, that's why we play so many creatures. All of your spells are combat oriented and Thoughtseize has noting to do with this. Oh ! and it's also an awful late game draw so that's why I would put it on the sideboard to use against combo decks. On the other hand abrupt decay works most of the time to remove blockers from your way while also being useful to remove certain things that path can't answer. So I would go with decay main and thoughtseize on the side.
I found man lands were at their best against decks we already have a good plan against, mostly the fair decks. And the cost of having two tapped lands put me behind on my curve a non trivial amount that I ended up removing them. I was seeing awkward hands that demanded a dork just to play a Voice on time, or similar situations up the curve and that felt like it was messing up my win % enough. That said, the lifelink from Vent was the best performing aspect between Vent, Wildwood and Treetop Village, which were the three I tried at different times.
Congrats. You found one deck out of how many (and he didn't even get to top 16)? Go ahead. Tell me how many green decks there were. Don't worry. I looked it up for you. Out of all the decks in the top 8 at GP Charlotte this year (where you pulled your one example from), NOT A SINGLE ONE HAD FEED THE CLAN IN THEIR 75. That number includes 2 Jund decks, 1 Domri Zoo deck, 1 Collected Bant deck and 1 Scapeshift deck all of which have been candidates in the past to run cards like Feed the Clan in the sideboard at least. Do I need to go any further? I will anyway.
No, Kitchen Finks is not a sacred cow, but it's pretty damn good. In fact, having persist on a solid body makes it pretty good against the field. I even love when it catches a Path to Exile because that's supposedly the "cleanest" way to answer it. The only times it doesn't get value is when your opponent has Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Grafdigger's Cage or Leyline of the Void in play. Only one of those things isn't considered narrow. By the way, you can even find at least 2 decks playing Kitchen Finks in their sideboard at the top 8 of GP Charlotte!
Uh yea, I remember PT FTR. What about it? Kitchen Finks was the only thing that allowed Jacob to continue playing magic, or what? You're telling me Feed the Clans in place of one of those Kitchen Finks was going to win him that game? Is that seriously where your heading with this? I can tell you this: There aren't many 3-CMC drops that would even be playable in that position unless you can name one. A solid body, life gain and persist. That sure does seem so much better than 5 life... oops, I mean 3 life in Jacob's position.
I have serious doubts about how much you've played this deck. I've played both sides when it comes to this deck and control, and I know for a fact that Grixis and Jeskai control (especially Jeskai) run us down hard. They are playing all the removal in the world combined with permission and a lot of recursion in the case of Grixis control. THEN they truly beat us down with Snapcaster Mage and sweepers after sideboarding. Their game plan is literally to weather the storm, and then find any threat to finish us off. If you think this deck is going to blitz them into oblivion, you're just wrong. If you didn't get lucky with Lingering Souls and/or Voice of Resurgence, they would either have to be bad or really unlucky for you to blitz them into oblivion. I mean even versions of Jeskai control prior to Nahiri, the Harbinger owned us so, yea, you need something for control matchups. I don't care if it's man-lands, planewalkers, whatever, but you will need something. This deck is a midrange hunter. Period. It just happens to have decent game against aggro, but it does not do "a great job against control." At best, you can say that this deck has a plan to beat control. The ability to execute that plan isn't great.
You are, however, correct in that we need help with combo matchups the most, but what's your plan to deal with them? All we can do is turn creatures sideways or play the discard package that a traditional midrange Abzan would play. Either way, all combo decks are terrible matchups for us. We have to hope they stumble. They must stumble for us to even have a chance. If you know of a solid game plan to deal with them, by all means, please enlighten us.
Wtf is Feed the Clans doing for you? Seriously? You mention Burn, but then want to come back with "but I'm not worried about the Burn matchup." Oh really? Why mention it then? In any case, you do know Burn doesn't play a tap-out style any more? They actually hold up Skullcrack and Atarka's Command unless it's going to kill you immediately. You might catch Zoo trying to pull the trigger on an Atarka's Command too early, but that's it really. I know they can also use it against the Kitchen Finks trigger, but that's still a win, man! I still have something to show for it in that case. How will it feel when they blow out your Feed the Clans? No one wants to play Feed the Clans, man. Well, except you apparently. Other folks play it when they have to, but you apparently love it so much that you refuse to give it up in the face of raw facts. Do you think pros like not playing the best cards? I'm not personally saying you're wrong. You can do whatever you like, but don't spread misinformation like it's the gospel.
I was pointing out a deck that used Feed the Clan because you asked. Feed the Clans gains you 10 life, that's what I expect it do. Against burn, that card is better than Sorin, which is all that I was saying. If a two mana instant is easy for them to play around, then a four mana planeswalker is even easier, right? You kinda turned it into something much more. I'm literally ignoring the burn match up in my current build, that's why I said I'm not worried about it. Sorry for mentioning it at this point.
Actually, you've kinda ran wild with everything. I never mentioned I had some magical answer to combo.
I don't share your experience when you say control runs us down hard. They have all the removal, true. We can still get there thanks to our resilient threats and lands and we can line up really well against their one for ones. If we flood out or draw all Paths, I know I'm losing too. I dunno the match up % but I know I don't feel like a huge underdog when I've played Jeskai lately.
Don't be an idiot. Very few cards could've saved him there. Kitchen Finks actually kept the door of possibility open for him a lot longer than it should've been open. Otherwise, he's just sitting there praying for a Siege Rhino he can cast. In fact, your point just emphasizes how much better Kitchen Finks is than Feed the Clan. Feed the Clan would just prolong his death in that scenario.
Don't be daft. I said to point out a deck AND compare it to all the decks that could play it. You have to read all the words. The bottom line is that your crap arguments just don't justify you're belief in Feed the Clan. It's just garbage. And to your point about a 4-CMC planeswalker, yea, it's a lot harder to keep wasting Skullcrack and Atarka's Command on something that keeps ticking up on the board as opposed to a one-time deal. You are aware that the +1 on Sorin lasts until your next turn and hits all your creatures?
Also, Feed the Clan only gains 10 life when you have ferocious. That's not easily achieved even in Jund. It's a poor assumption that many keep making. For instance, would you please count for us exactly how many turns Jacob had ferocious in the video you linked?
Nah, I was actually trying to cut you off from talking about other match ups that you most likely have no idea about.
There's nothing to share. I've been there on both sides of that match up. The only "resilient threats" are the ones I already mentioned: Spirits from Lingering Souls and Voice of Resurgence. The spirits take too much to answer without sweepers and Voice forces you to play at sorcery speed if it doesn't get countered. Not to mention Kitchen Finks is good in game 1, but oh wait! You don't even play them! In any case, they all can become weak to post-sideboard shenanigans and sweepers. The last part is really important: Sweepers. They're the reason we can't go full-tilt against control, especially after sideboarding. The first time you run enough of your guys into a mid-game Damnation or and an early-game Anger of the Gods, you're done. It's over. They're 1-for-1 removal takes over from there. Or I guess you could try slow-rolling your guys out. I'm sure that will work out just fine, because control decks don't play better when given more time, right?
I don't know man. You seem like a troll so I'm done.
This post has been infracted for flaming by Lantern
-ktkenshinx-
I play 4 Finks and I'd never cut any of them. Too important against burn and zoo, also great against BGx. I believe in my testing I had a 60% winrate against burn game 1, and that was heavily because of 4 main deck finks, with help from Scooze and Rhino. If I expected lots of burn, I'd sideboard Firewalker as well. My experience with Zoo playing Paths makes me really like Finks, because it gains life and buys time for our better cards to win us the game, or it takes a path and gives us a better chance of sticking a game-winning Rhino or Liege. I really value the incremental life-gain of Finks and Rhino. As I play Restoration Angel in the sideboard, I also think having more good targets for it in the main deck is fantastic
I'm also adamant that we're 45/55 at least against Grixis Delve and Nahiri America. I've played against the decks plenty of times, I've played America Control extensively in the past, and ran it against Little Kid 7-8 times or so. It's a very winable match-up if we draw decently and so do they. Depending on your sideboard, I find the match typically turns in our favor. Cards like Celestial Purge, Painful Truths, Thragtusk, and Sigarda, Host of Herons are amazing. I've found most of those decks run somewhere between 2 and 4 relevant board wipes post board. We can absolutely play around those with a decent draw, assuming they don't draw the nuts. Shockingly, most players don't draw the nuts.
I don't know if we're favored against URx control, but to say that we get slaughtered is simply not true based on the dozens of matches I've tested against them. I personally have a winning record, but that could be variance or opponent quality. But I feel like our threats match-up very well against their answers often enough for us to just win. If I was horribly concerned about the match-up, I'd add a handful of cards to the sideboard to try and tip it in our favor.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
And yes, SSJRanulf, I share similar experiences against Jeskai. We can simply line up well against Bolt, Helix, Remand and Leak, which can just win us some games. They can also kill all our stuff and we lose. It's not as terrible it's been described, in my experiences.
If you're playing against Zoo and 8whack, then I see how Finks is better there; doubly so with Resto. I had mentioned it is specifically against burn where I've been unimpressed with Finks.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Would you consider 45/55 against Jeskai control "doing a great job"? I only ask because you're playing 4 Kitchen Finks, which gives you a good chance to take game 1 outright, assuming a standard build otherwise, and you're also playing cards most folks would consider "proper" out of the sideboard. I feel the latest versions of Jeskai that are packing Ancestral Vision make that 45/55 percentage actually worse. If your testing shows differently, I'd love to hear about it because the addition of AV has become overwhelming lately.
I also play 2 Anafenza, but it was in response to Melira CoCo and Kiki-Chord. It still has pretty good game against Dredge, but I don't think this deck fears Dredge like a lot of other decks do. I've personally been packing a lot of natural and sideboard hate for them as it was. Nowadays, I might get to up my Rest in Peace count to 2 in the board instead of 1.
Actually I was laughing through most of those posts. I actually posted some of your comments to my play test group. Some of them found it equally hilarious.
To your points about the Jeskai matchup, what you describe is odd for an entire match because most of them board out Lightning Helix and maybe some number of Lightning Bolts. They're just bad as removal against decks that have a lot of 4-toughness creatures (Loxodon Smiter, Anafenza, the Foremost, Wilt-Leaf Liege and Siege Rhino), and this deck plays enough 4-toughness creatures that most Jeskai pilots would treat it like Bant Eldrazi or other decks of the like. Most of the time that means going heavy on sweepers and Elspeth, Sun's Champion, which is gaining in popularity. If you're still seeing Lightning Helix after sideboarding, I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to just burn you out of the game in a tempo control game. I don't consider the tempo-control a good plan, but I've seen worse.
There are plenty of opinions on Abzan Charm already. You would have to scroll back a few pages or just use the search feature. Basically, you either love the flexibility or would rather just play other things that deal with specific problems. I'm in the camp of playing things that deal with my problems. In fact, I'd rather play Painful Truths main than play Abzan Charm, and it doesn't deal with problems so much as gas you back up.
@chaos21: I've been winning about 55%. AV is good, but I've won a large amount of games that go Turn 1 Mana Dork, they go turn 1 AV, I go turn 2 Smiter, I go turn 3 Rhino and win from there. If AV is a seriously problem, I'd play 2-3 copies of Painful Truths; our cards on average are so much more powerful than their cards. Voice, Finks, Souls, Rhino, Scooze, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel; these are all worth 1.5 to 2 cards. Anger of the God's is the only card I'm really worried about, at all. By playing less mana dorks, I find my draws are consistently better than were they were in the past. An AV that draws Bolt/Electrolize, Land, and Spell Snare/AV/Mana Leak is not particularly a 3 cards I'm worried about.
If I just wanted to destroy the deck I'd maindeck two copies of Brimaz instead of Finks. He's better against Nahiri and typically better against their removal in general. Turn 1 dork, turn 2 Smiter, turn 3 Brimaz makes Anger of the God's an awful card.
It's a loseable match-up, for sure, but I don't mind playing it. Blue deck in general really struggle against Little Kid in my experience playing the deck. Nahiri isn't a deck that I'd be scared of seeing multipul times in an event; I'm much more concerned about Tron, Affinity, Ad Nauseam, Boggles, and other decks that attack from angles we aren't directly beat to crush.
As for what a "great job" is, I frankly refuse to weigh in on petty flaming. I hold this community to a high standard of respect, and I'm thankful that we have moderators who enforce it.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
As far as the flaming comment, it was a legitimate question. I usually consider a matchup good if my testing shows a floor of 60%+. You say you it's 45/55 and call it "decent." I find that interesting because that's still essentially a coin flip to me. I mean I'm asking you. You don't have to say anything towards anyone else
I guess my guide is: 45% - 55% winrate is "decent". 37.5% to 44% is "unfavorable", worse than 33% is horrific, with 10% being unwinable. 56%-62.5% is favorable, 75% is amazing, and 90% is unlosable. I know of virtually no match-ups where Little Kid wins more than 70% of the time (burn) or loses more than 30% of the time (Tron). I suppose Tron with 4 maindecked Ugins would potentially be a 25% winrate or lower, while burn without Attarka's Command, say Mardu burn (without Crackling Doom) would be 75% winrate or higher.
I do lose some games where they go turn 1 bolt mana dork, turn 2 counter spell, turn 3 take the turn off, turn 4 Nahiri your 3 drop. But overall find I do OK. I also think I play more 2 drops than most people do, so if my guy eats a bolt I'm OK with that.
Here is the latest version of my deck. I'm pretty happy with it, but I'll discuss some potential changes bellow:
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Fleecemane Lion
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Lingering Souls
4 Siege Rhino
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Spells
4 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Gavony Township
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Thragtusk
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Grafdigger's cage
1 Spellskite
A word on the main deck. I play 21 lands, and I haven't had significant issues across my hundreds of recorded and tested games. I'm pretty good at taking a mulligan or two when needed. I like it better at 21 lands than when I was playing 22. Gavony has screwed me over so many times by producing colorless mana that if I ever play more than 1, I'm cutting a spell for it, not a land. And I'm not in the market for more main-decked gindcore spells.
A 2nd word on the main deck; only 5 mana dorks. I love starting with one, of course. But I lost too many games because I'd draw 3 mana dorks in the 11-14 cards I'd see over the course of the game. Their great turn 1, fine turn 2-3, and don't do as much afterwards. If I had card draw in the main deck, I could see about playing 6. But rather than do that, I made the deck more lean. More aggressive.
And a 3rd, final word on my main deck choices that are unique: Fleecemane Lion. Wonderful card. Nothing else lets you go turn 1 mana dork, turn 2 tap land into 2 drop, turn 3 Liege and swing past a 4/5 Tarmogoyf. Against combo decks, it's a significantly faster clock than Voice is; if they each attack 3 times, Lion bolted them for free. The Lion is a 2 drop that trades with Nacatal, which is key when they kill your mana dork or you don't have one or you want to fetch a tapland. It's ability to become a 4/4 indestructible hexproof creature is phenomenal against BGx, Blue Control, and the mirror match. I'm aware it has many weaknesses; specifically the amount of removal it dies to. This is why I play 2 copies; some matches it's good, other's less so. Voice is better in general, so it gets the nod of 3 copies. Lion will be an unpopular choice, but I'm OK with that. Testing has told me it's fine as cards number 59 and 60 in the deck.
I'd never play Qasali Pridemage in the maindeck. A bear against Jund didn't do it for me, and having exalted doesn't let it be as fast as Lion against combo decks where you're attacking with 2 or 3 creatures.
If I expected a metagame with very little Jund and Junk, and less Zoo, I would cut the 4 Wilt-Leaf Liege and play 4 copies of Restoration Angel instead. Angel is absurd against Nahiri, good against Dredge, good against burn, and fine against Affinity and infect.
I've been thinking about cutting 1 Unmaking from the sideboard, and putting in 1 Celestial Purge. I used to run up to 3 copies of Purge, and it's secretly one of the strongest sideboard cards against modern; it makes your Grixis Delve match-up easy, is great against Nahiri, is very helpful against Jund, great against Delve, and is serviceable against burn.
The moment I get a smell of Delver, I'm putting the 4th Decay back in the main instead of the single Unmaking. No matter the version of Delver, 4 path, 4 decay, efficient life-gain creatures, and Smiter makes it favorable.
As for Tron, go face. Attack as aggressively as possible. Unmaking can snipe a Karn, Decay and Unmaking can destroy some artifacts at key times. If they bother with Wurmcoil or Worldbreaker, you're much further ahead than if their attack with planeswalkers. Ugin is unbeatable. I hardly have sideboard for this match-up because nothing short of 4 Aven Mindcensor, 2 Gaddock Teeg, and 3 Fulminator Mage will help; even then, it's usually not enough.
I also don't really have much for Ad Nauseam. Stony Silence helps, you can bring in Unamaking in place of Path to try and pop an Unlife. It's a bad match-up, and 3 copies of Thoughtseize won't fix it.
I fear Boggles and Infect. Spellskite helps, but I've only got the single copy in the side. Zealous Persecution is strong against Infect and Affinity, as well as Elves, and I do have Unmaking to have more interaction with Boggles. But these decks are built to fight on a axis we're not, so their inherently challenging.
Affinity is bad game one, fine game 2 and 3. Souls is great, and so is some lifegain. Our removal is good, but heavily taxed. Zealous Persecution is really great there, and Stony Silence is downright mandatory. I'd also always bring in Resto; turn 3-4 Rhino, turn 4-5 Resto can get you out of lethal range and put some pressure on them.
Burn's fantastic. We've got a fast clock, great blockers, cheap removal, and plenty of life gain. I usually never kill Edillion; just put Finks, Voice, or Smiter and wait to draw Siege Rhino or additional Finks. Post board we've got lots of additional life gain in Thragtusk and Resto.
Cage is OP. Great against Coco decks of both varieties, great against Dredge. Keep in mind it stops your Finks and your Souls. I also play the best graveyard hate in the game, Rest in Peace. Good against us because it hits Voice, Scooze, Finks, and Souls. But you bring it in when it hurts them more than it hurts you. These days I'm thinking about playing either a 3rd RIP or 1 copy of Faerie Macabre. I don't think I need the 5th piece of graveyard hate yet, but the day might come. I'd like the 3rd RIP over the 3rd Cage.
You will not beat grindy GBx decks or decks like Zoo frequently enough if you don't have good sideboard for them. It's as simple as that; you'll be 65% game one, and 40% game two when Jund sideboards 10 cards and you've got nothing. Thragtusk is amazing: great against GBx, Zoo, Burn, and grindy blue deck. Restoraiton Angel is fantastic, and having 10 great targets after bringing in Thragtusk makes sure it's always producing additional value and keeping you ahead on board. Against grindy decks that don't have enough life total pressure, like Jund, Anguished Unmaking helps take pressure off of Path to answer all of their absurd 4+ drops, like Olivia, Huntmaster, Tasigur, Dark Dwellers, ect.
Not sure what to think on Merfolk. Mana dorks are great against their plan to attack your lands, and you've got great removal. Decay can free up lands or kill guys, Path is good. We've also got plenty of life gain and a swift clock to make the race winable. But they can curve out like a mother, and be surprisingly aggressive in how quickly they turn the corner. It's probably pretty close.
Living End dunks on me. Game 1 often is Scooze it or lose it, unless I can drop 3 Rhino's or something. Game 2-3 is only slightly better; Cage being useless means I've only got half my normal graveyard hate. Thragtusk helps buy time, Resto helps restore the Finks that survives a living end; but it's still a match-up I don't enjoy.
I think that about wraps it up. Any questions, feel free to ask. I love this deck, I've got thousands of games of it under my belt, and I've got it heavily foiled out. It's probably my favorite deck in the history of the game.
Cheers!
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Pridemage is obviously at its worse against a deck like Jund, but I'm not sure that's reason enough to not play it. A majority of the games it would be in your sb against them, right? One strong argument for Pridemage is that your deck is very weak to Inkmoth Nexus. There's other ways to kill it, but QP's ability is a pretty low opportunity cost.
This leads me to also say I don't think a majority of your removal post board can miss man lands when Affinity and Infect are popular choices. Has that been a problem for you?
I'm totally fine against the card post-board, but it's pretty annoying to see people playing 2 copies in the main deck.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
2x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
2x Stirring Wildwood
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
3x Birds of Paradise
2x Kitchen Finks
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Noble Hierarch
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
Instant (7)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Path to Exile
Sorcery (4)
3x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Abzan Charm
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
2x Celestial Purge
2x Choke
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Qasali Pridemage
3x Stony Silence
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
The mana base is pretty smooth if your mana dork doesn't eat a bolt t1 but that's why there are 8 2drops in the deck.
Round 1: Jeskai midrange homebrew? He was new so I didn't know what to expect.
Game 1: Smooth game, dork, smiter, rhino, abrupt decay his Soulfire Grand Master he blocks with Geist then I run him over with siege rhino and smiter the turn after.
Game 2: (in 2x choke, out: wilt-leaf and Anafenza) went similar to game 1 but he supreme verdict my smiter and rhino. I kept refilling my board and eventually he couldn't keep up so I won.
1-0
Round 2: GW enchantment lockdown.
Game 1: I had a good opener and I was fast enough to beat him down with smiter before he could play his ghostly prisons and Sphere of Safety.
Game 2: (in: Maelstrom Pulse and Abzan charm, out: Anafenza and lingering souls) This time I want's so lucky, I got him down to 7 but he kept gaining life from Courser of Kruphix and Herald of the Pantheon. I only needed to draw a Maelstrom Pulse on his 3 Sphere of safety to win but after 40 minutes, his Elspeth won the game.
Game 3: out of time.
1-1-0
Round 3: Jund. We are favorable against them so I wasn't worried.
Game 1: He got down pretty low from Thoughtseize and fetch+shock to remove my removals and kill my mana dorks so after his liliana discarded my wilt-leaf he conceded.
Game 2: (in: Anafenza and 2x Celestial Purge. out: 2x Kitchen Finks and voice) This game went a little long with him removing my threats and discarding a couple removals. The board was noble, noble, and rhino on my side and tarmo, grim flayer, and dark confidant on his side. I had gavony and attacked with rhino only for 2x exalted which he blocked with tarmo, grim flayer, and dark confidant so I activate gavony which he missed for my rhino to survive and kill both grim flayer and confidant. I won soon after.
2-1-0
Round 4: Naya burn. Tough matchup IMO and I never won against this guy.
Game 1: He declares he has a perfect opener. and proceeds to play nacatle, swiftspear + nacatle, nacatle + atarka's command. I lose
Game 2: (in 2x Kor Firewalker. out: wilt-leaf and anafenza) I mull to 5 and keep a 1 lander but it has 2 firewalkers so I play nothing on turn 2 he says "thanks for the free win". 2 turns later I have both firewalkers out followed by a rhino so he ends up struggling to push me down with his goblin guides. So I beat him down once I stabilized.
Game 3: After several turns of trading, the board comes down to 2 firewalkers on my side and 2 eidolons, a nacatle, and swiftspear on his side. I am at 3 he is at 5 and he's tapped out. I draw my forth land (shockland), I shock to 1 and play rhino to 4 and he's at 2. His turn he attacks with everything and I block the nacatle, swiftspear, and 1 eidolon. so I am at 2 he can't cast his bolt. I win the next turn.
3-1-0
the last round was pretty intense. I had to keep his eidolons alive to win.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
I've been playing wilted abzan at my lgs for a couple of months now with really good results and I have to confess that a big part of that success has come from reading this forum so thank you all for your input.
I decide to finally join the thread to try and give/get input like everyone else.
I wanted to know what your opinion is regarding manlands in this deck. How many would you play ?? and most importantly which ones ?? I'm currently playing 2 shambling vents but I've found myself missing that extra power point that stirring wildwoods have but I like how shambling vents can tap for black mana which is my splash color.