I really like some of the things that this deck offers. Currently, I'm running a Delver variant because I feel like he complements the deck in the same fashion that nacatl is used in naya midrange. I think that having a one drop that can apply pressure while still holding up for counters and removal is important. I'm also running sleight of hand as well over gix probe for the card selection benefits. I want to run mentors, but based on this forums cumulative results, it seems like it may not be necessary.
Also, regarding the new jace, i found him lackluster. While the deck benefits the most from his looter side, i don't think that the deck really needs more than four Snapcaster effects, especially because it can only be used at sorcery speed. Not being able to snap counters back is huge, and is fundamental to any variation of the deck. Plus I've only ever got one trigger of him before flipping. This might be because of the scours. I'm interested in hearing other people's findings.
Went 3-0-2 at my LGS's Thursday Night Modern event. The biggest change to the deck was the addition of 3 Serum Visions and the removal of 1 Inquisition, Thoughtseize, and Pack Rat. Took 4th out of like 20~ or so.
Game 1: I'm on the play and I inquisition him, taking Heritage Druid. He drops a Dork, then a Leap, and then a Cloudstone Curio. He gets an Essence Warden into play and spend the next 35 minutes gaining 4-5 life a turn while I deal 4 damage a turn. Takes almost 40 minutes to find a combo through all of my disruption.
Game 2: He finds a leap and curio but no essence warden. I beat the poop out of him with lingering souls. Game ends with 1 minute left so we call it a draw.
Round 2 VS Goblins, 0-0-1
Awesome opponent, shame I forgot his name already, been a long day which is also why this report is so poo.
Game 1: He's on the play and drops a vial. Back to my turn, my hand is poor so I shock in a Watery Grave and pass. He vials in a guide, plays a guide, and plays a legion loyalist. I get two lands off the trigger and take 5, already down to 13. I manage to play a Tasigur I think which buys me a few turns as I eat his goblins every attack. Eventually he finds 3 attacks to my two blockers while I'm at 4 life.
IN: Celestial Purge x2,Timely Reinforcements x3, Flashfreeze x1, Languish x1 (I think).
Out: Remand x2, Mentor x2, Thoughtseize x1, Shadow of Doubt x1, Something else (I think).
Game 2: Can't remember much but I dropped a t2 Tasigur and got a few free lands of guide triggers. Eventually traded tasigur for a guide and a bolt and took over from there after slinging some removal spells and landing a timely reinforcements. Played a lot of basics to play around bloodmoon.
Game 3: Managed to play a timely reinforcements then snapped it back a few turns later. Also had a lot of removal. I had a really good draw that game, so it wasn't a surprise that he didn't manage to get me. The sideboard reinforcements are great.
Round 3 VS Esper Control, 1-0-1
Such long drawn out, boring games. I mean, they were fun, but... I'd rather just play against grixis since I know exactly what they'll be playing. This was more of a brew from my opponent who is usually on esper control.
Game 1: Lose to gideon? I think. Can't remember. I walked into a turn 2 shadow of doubt though, that hurt.
Game 2: Win somehow, IDK. Lingering souls and Tasigur.
Game 3: By this time, we've got 5 minutes left. I'm just looking for a draw but we play fast. Lots of sloppy mistakes. We eventually draw, me at 2 life because he forgets to use Gideon turn 2 of extra turns. Don't blame him, we were both playing extremely fast because everyone else in the store was done at 30~ minutes and we were only on game 2. Had quite a crowd. Was fun but very tiring and long.
Round 4 VS Dredgevine, 1-0-2
Pretty fun games, I'm already tired so I'm just gonna wrap this up as fast as possible.
Game 1: Keep 1 land+serum visions, see 1 other land over 6 turns. That was a bad idea. I lose quickly.
In: Celestial Purges, Jace, some other poop, can't remember
Out: Mentors as usual.
Game 2: I ult Jace and steal a vengevine while pulling out a blood baron. I had all the removal in the world this game so I took very few points of damage.
Game 3: His deck didn't do what it wants to do and I played many Anglers.
Round 5 VS Jund, 2-0-2
I'm not even gonna go into detail on this game, I can't remember most of it but it was insane. I had the perfect draws, the perfect topdecks. I had an answer to every single card he played as well as early lingering souls each game. Examples:
He thoughtseizes me t1, sees no counters, takes an inquisition. I draw a spell snare and pass back. Snare his 2 drop.
We're both at 0 cards, draw a Tasigur and kill him in 2 turns.
I have him at 11 life with 4 lingering souls and a tarpit in hand. I inquisition him, see Thundermaw Hellkite and abrupt decay and pass back and knocking him to 7. The card I drew for the turn was remand and his dragon doesn't even enter play. Activate pit next turn and kill him.
2 celestial purge for his t2 Bob.
We both kept 1 landers game 2. We stumble a few turns but I find lands before he does and begin the soul beat downs.
Like... IDK what to say. My deck was giving me every card I needed right at that time. The universe literally wanted me to win that game. Felt good.
IN: 2 Celestial Purge, Blood Baron, maybe some others.
OUT: Mentors, a path, idk.
Overall 3-0-2
Sloppy report, but I'm very pleased with the deck, especially with how the night started. As usual, I'm a bit disappointed in Mentor. Not sure what I'd replace it with so I'll continue jamming games with him till I'm either happy to have 2 or sick of it completely. Serum Visions was fun to play with, I think I like having it in the deck but I'm not 100% sure. Sideboard feels ok, might throw in 1 dispel somewhere though. Celestial Purge is an all-star, I'm boarding it in almost every matchup I play. Love the card.
Is there any reason why people are running Mentors still? Literally every report I've seen sides them out G2. Anyways, here's the list I've been trying out.
2-0, clean sweep. He drew very little relevant cards and my mountain of removal and discard just tore into him. I had an early Tasigur both games which quickly closed both games. I actually kept mentors in because g1 it helped to win within a turn of coming down. He ended up doing very well the rest of the night and went 3-1, taking 3rd, so it was kind of weird.
Round 2 VS Affinity
1-2. Lost the first game, mulliganned to a bunch of lands and Snapcasters. Drew nothing but lands. Game 3, I fetched poorly and kept myself off of white while holding a Disenchant and Stony Silence for many turns. Also Inquisitioned poorly and took a 2 drop instead of the Galv blast and ended up dying with a Spell Snare in hand.
Round 3 VS Abstract CoCo Junk
2-1. I call it abstract junk because he plays some... odd choices for cards. Judges familiar, Kytheon, etc. The game I lost, I misplayed by throwing two spirits into an attacking Kytheon with open mana. I knew he had two paths in hand and was expecting him to double path. Nope, he just made Kytheon indestructible. Woops! I lost to Goyf beats soon after.
Round 4 VS U/R Pyromancer
1-1-1. The deck that Shaun Mclaren is playing. I felt ok going into this since I knew what the deck was about. G1 he drops 3 (or 4?) pyromancers within a few turns and builds up and army of 15+ quickly. I manage to get a mentor, angler, snapcaster, and monk token out with the ability to activate vault of the archangel but I lose quickly after. G2 I land an early Angler and beat face. Easy game. He got stuck on 2 lands. G3 was the odded game of my life. I managed to beat face with an Angler for a bit but he managed to roast it, not after I gained 5 life with Vault. Now came the weird part. He had a lavamancer out and a izzet staticcaster. My hand is celestial purge, lingering souls, x2 snapcasters, and a path. I'm rapidly losing life each turn all the way down to 11 to like 7 and we go to turns. He keeps bricking on cards, either drawing counterspells or lands. His graveyard is empty by this point, expect for the few fetch lands he's finding. He wittles me down to 1 without finding a playable card, all while I'm draw-going. I know that if I play anything, it'll get countered as he's sitting on 3+ counterspells and more mana than me. And if he plays a counterspell, he can just drop all three of them and have fuel for the lavamancer. Ended up blocking the lethal lavamancer swing with my tar pit, earning myself a draw and 4th place while he took 1st.
Overall, 2-1-1 taking 4th. 7$ store credit and a Serum Visions random promo. Cha-ching.
Only changes I would like to make is maybe dropping negates for dispels but it's hard to say. Maybe 1 negate - 1 dispel split.
Is there any reason why people are running Mentors still? Literally every report I've seen sides them out G2. Anyways, here's the list I've been trying out.
I'm just not sure what I would take Mentors out for yet. When they're good, they're amazing. Unfortunately, they're not good very often. I'm considering dropping both for two bitterblossoms, but that just makes me weaker to token hate. Timely reinforcement as a 1-of could be ok, maybe, or possibly back to pack rat. It's just a tough call, but I'm not super happy with them... usually.
Is there any reason why people are running Mentors still? Literally every report I've seen sides them out G2. Anyways, here's the list I've been trying out.
I went down to 3 because drawing multiples is often bad, but I still believe Mentor has a place in a deck like this. He allows you to really turn on the gas and be offensive, or threaten a very quick lethal attack, when the situation permits. He is almost like Splinter Twin in that you can play a solid, grindy game without him, but you can also present this threat that will just take over and win in a turn or two.
(Now obviously, he's not as fast or as infinite as twin, but from an abstract perspective, he is presenting another must-answer threat.)
One of the better qualities of this deck (Esper Mentor / Midrange) is it's ability to attack in several ways. You can go off with Mentor, or you can protect a Tasigur while removing, or you can grind with Souls / Tar-Pit. Even while you are on plan B or C, the threat of Mentor is there. Personally, I almost never side him out, and the deck has done very well for me at a small-tournament level against other very real decks.
Anyway, I have tested the delve fatties version, and Geist of Saint Traft, as well. I am still back on 3x Monastery Mentor. I think that running the full set of 8 cantrips with Serum Visions and Thought Scour is where the deck wants to be, and I am also playing 2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in lieu of Gurmag Angler.
I am down to 21 land, because for Mentor to be worth it, we want an effective, like, at least 30~ noncreature spells. I say effective because I am counting Snapcaster as another trigger, and Jace as potential triggers- although Jace often gets removed, that still makes me want to play him, because he eats a removal spell so that Mentor can possibly live. If he doesn't get removed, he just sits there and gets insane value in this deck. Cards in the yard is almost like drawing cards for us, and all we want to do is cast a ton of spells and get value from all of them.
I find this deck has a good amount of inevitability, too, with Tar-Pit and Souls. I am still a believer in 4x Tar-Pit.
Anyway, still very interesting to see that people are thinking about and playing this archetype as much as I am. I do think it will be around, hovering near tier 2. Maybe something in a new set can bump it up, or the meta can elevate it. Personally, I feel that it actually has a lot of very solid matchups right now, especially in the varieties of Grixis running around. Also as a deck with many decisions and lines of play, I feel that you can gain significant advantage in most "fair" matchups by simply knowing it well.
Fair enough. He certainly can take over a game. I'm not arguing if he's good or not but that people side him out all the time. It certainly depends on the meta but most of the time you can't slam Mentor turn three and past then I'd rather be playing a delve threat or cast Souls and leave up mana for removal/snap. If people side him out a lot why not use those slots for something different?
I'm confused as to why so many people dropped Mentor (I am still playing him). He's house when you can protect him with counters. Plus you can put Geist on sideboard against the control decks.
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I'm confused as to why so many people dropped Mentor (I am still playing him). He's house when you can protect him with counters. Plus you can put Geist on sideboard against the control decks.
I came to the same conclusion as well. Geist and Mentor seems to compliment each other very well. Mentor is great in spot removal light match ups that are creature heavy while Geist is great when the opponent is spot removal heavy but creature light.
You have a list you are currently using? I like what Soorani was playing 2 weeks ago, though I think that visions should be scours and add some Geists to the sideboard
The plan is that Geist will replace Mentor in sideboarded games against decks that a) need a quick clock or b) play a lot of spot removal and few creatures. The Cavern works well, as all the creatures are Human and helps in the Blue mirror match ups.
I think Mentor and Geist are extremely underplayed/under evaluated at the moment and I think their contrasting playstyles will work well together.
@TheNoob : In the video Shaheen insist on the fact that Gideon should be in the MB. What do you think? When i played the deck, I often wished to have y way to dodge damages from the opponent's creatures.
@Equinox2793 : Why the new Gideon? we do not need the 5/5, neither the 2/2, and the Embleme... i prefere the Sorin's Embleme or the +1 / +lifelink
And for the choice between Sorin and Sorin I think that it depend of the situation your are the most currently facing to. Board empty on both side, grindy game I prefere the Lord. But to finish a game or to escape a difficult situation, the Visitor is better (but ONLY works if you already have a presence on board!!)
-the new gideon looks like it was made for our deck
Wow the decklists are quite similar.
I think new Jace is good, but if you are running him, why not run Thought Scour instead of Visions? It means you are sure to flip him as soon as he can activate. We arent running Delver, so I feel like scry on Visions isnt really worth being force to play at sorcery speed. I dont own them right now and I do not think he is worth his price tag right now so I will not be buying any to test.
I am running 4 probe because a) we really need to know our opponents hand, more so than most decks due to how threat light we r. b) it guarentees that we get something from Mentor on turn 3, as you can keep priority and cast probe for 2 life and trigger a monk token.
I am honestly torn on Sorin 2.0.....I feel like t3 Mentor/probe into t4 Sorin 2.0 is lights out for most decks. But I feel like he is weaker on an empty board than Sorin 1.0 or even Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I have debated replacing 1 with Zealous Persecution, especially with the rise of combo Elves and CC decks.
New Gideon is interesting; I think ppl are underestimating him in Modern. He is flexible; you can use him as a +2/+2 prowess anthem for a surprise alpha strike to win, adds 2/2 tokens on a crowded board or can be a hard to remove Tasigur-ish threat on an empty board. I dont know if he is better than other PWs we have access too, but I think he is at least testable.
I think my list is 1 or 2 removal spells too light; I am trying to use Grixis Control and previous mentor decks as a template to build off of. I think Mentor is vastly underestimated and the Geist sideboard really makes up for its weaknesses.
@Scoup - I think Shaheen has a soft spot for Gideon; I am unconvinced he is worth a spot in the deck. CMC 5 is stressing an already tight manabase with 22 lands (only 12 of which make mana). If you are worried about getting run over by your opponent, up your removal, add a wrath to the side and consider some Zealous Persecution
3 Probes because 4 Inquisition + 3 Probes is enough to look at your opponent's hand. And I never use probe to trigger Monk, but before Monk to be sure that I will be able to trigger it 2-3times next turn (to be sure that playing Monk is safe).
Vision on top of Scour, because it filter your draws, that's strong^^. Scour is good with a Delve heavy list (2 Tasigur + 3 Angler + 2 Cuts). putting answers in your grave just to flip Jace is not good. Plus: Vision and Probe to draw the card you need is REALLY good and allow you to play normally with a tight manabase.
I will definitely try the Gideon v.1 main deck... having one 5mana card in your deck is not bad at all, especially with Vision (do not draw him when you do not need him, and draw land when he is in your hand^^) Never have mana problems with 20 lands, 4 Visions and 3 Probes
Thanks for your response. I'm torn on which sorin to use and I think elspeth sucks personally so I'll just stick to either sorin. New Gideon looks insane in this deck because he provides a 2/2 each turn, he's a 5/5 indestructible that attacks through Delve creatures, Goyf, etc. You actually don't need thought scour to activate Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy because we play so many cheap spells he is usually online after turn 4 at the latest. I agree with you that Shaheen likes Gideon v1 too much b/c 5 mana is a lot. I could kinda see the merit but I'm not super convinced yet.
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I tried thought scour for awhile and I didn't like milling my own threats so I tried Visions + probe and it seems to be good so far. I don't need to run scour b/c Jace, Vryn's Prodigy flips off of just 5 cards in your graveyard (which is usually turn 4) and Tas as a 1 of has been great so far in testing. I am at 22 lands so I can play ghost quarter as a 2 of in the deck to combat tron/manlands that annoy me.
It performs really well vs BGx, Twin, Grixis Control and miscellaneous creature decks. Not that great vs Griselcannon, Bloom, Ad Nauseum and so forth. I'm not sure whether it's even possible to tweak the deck to be acceptable against both. Possibly add more counterspells to the board.
Sorry for the triple post but thoughts on Esper Charm or Quicken in here as a 1 of?
As a one of, I would play Azorius Charm, bounce a creature ( make your opponent recast a Tas or an Angler with an empty grave! ^^), gain some life or just cycle itself. All good
I do not like Esper charm here... and Quicken for what? Inquisition? Vision? Mwarf
Also, regarding the new jace, i found him lackluster. While the deck benefits the most from his looter side, i don't think that the deck really needs more than four Snapcaster effects, especially because it can only be used at sorcery speed. Not being able to snap counters back is huge, and is fundamental to any variation of the deck. Plus I've only ever got one trigger of him before flipping. This might be because of the scours. I'm interested in hearing other people's findings.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Gurmag Angler
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instants and Sorceries - 27
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Serum Visions
1 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thought scour
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Murderous Cut
1 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Negate
2 Celestial Purge
1 Flashfreeze
1 Languish
1 Disenchant
1 Blood Baron of Viskopa
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Stony Silence
Round 1 VS Evolutionary Elves, 0-0-0
Game 1: I'm on the play and I inquisition him, taking Heritage Druid. He drops a Dork, then a Leap, and then a Cloudstone Curio. He gets an Essence Warden into play and spend the next 35 minutes gaining 4-5 life a turn while I deal 4 damage a turn. Takes almost 40 minutes to find a combo through all of my disruption.
In: Thoughtseize, Flashfreeze, Languish, Disenchant
Out: Monastery Mentor x2, x2 Remand (I think)
Game 2: He finds a leap and curio but no essence warden. I beat the poop out of him with lingering souls. Game ends with 1 minute left so we call it a draw.
Round 2 VS Goblins, 0-0-1
Awesome opponent, shame I forgot his name already, been a long day which is also why this report is so poo.
Game 1: He's on the play and drops a vial. Back to my turn, my hand is poor so I shock in a Watery Grave and pass. He vials in a guide, plays a guide, and plays a legion loyalist. I get two lands off the trigger and take 5, already down to 13. I manage to play a Tasigur I think which buys me a few turns as I eat his goblins every attack. Eventually he finds 3 attacks to my two blockers while I'm at 4 life.
IN: Celestial Purge x2,Timely Reinforcements x3, Flashfreeze x1, Languish x1 (I think).
Out: Remand x2, Mentor x2, Thoughtseize x1, Shadow of Doubt x1, Something else (I think).
Game 2: Can't remember much but I dropped a t2 Tasigur and got a few free lands of guide triggers. Eventually traded tasigur for a guide and a bolt and took over from there after slinging some removal spells and landing a timely reinforcements. Played a lot of basics to play around bloodmoon.
Game 3: Managed to play a timely reinforcements then snapped it back a few turns later. Also had a lot of removal. I had a really good draw that game, so it wasn't a surprise that he didn't manage to get me. The sideboard reinforcements are great.
Round 3 VS Esper Control, 1-0-1
Such long drawn out, boring games. I mean, they were fun, but... I'd rather just play against grixis since I know exactly what they'll be playing. This was more of a brew from my opponent who is usually on esper control.
Game 1: Lose to gideon? I think. Can't remember. I walked into a turn 2 shadow of doubt though, that hurt.
In: Counterspells, Jace, Thoughtseize, BBoV
Out: Kill spells, can't remember
Game 2: Win somehow, IDK. Lingering souls and Tasigur.
Game 3: By this time, we've got 5 minutes left. I'm just looking for a draw but we play fast. Lots of sloppy mistakes. We eventually draw, me at 2 life because he forgets to use Gideon turn 2 of extra turns. Don't blame him, we were both playing extremely fast because everyone else in the store was done at 30~ minutes and we were only on game 2. Had quite a crowd. Was fun but very tiring and long.
Round 4 VS Dredgevine, 1-0-2
Pretty fun games, I'm already tired so I'm just gonna wrap this up as fast as possible.
Game 1: Keep 1 land+serum visions, see 1 other land over 6 turns. That was a bad idea. I lose quickly.
In: Celestial Purges, Jace, some other poop, can't remember
Out: Mentors as usual.
Game 2: I ult Jace and steal a vengevine while pulling out a blood baron. I had all the removal in the world this game so I took very few points of damage.
Game 3: His deck didn't do what it wants to do and I played many Anglers.
Round 5 VS Jund, 2-0-2
I'm not even gonna go into detail on this game, I can't remember most of it but it was insane. I had the perfect draws, the perfect topdecks. I had an answer to every single card he played as well as early lingering souls each game. Examples:
He thoughtseizes me t1, sees no counters, takes an inquisition. I draw a spell snare and pass back. Snare his 2 drop.
We're both at 0 cards, draw a Tasigur and kill him in 2 turns.
I have him at 11 life with 4 lingering souls and a tarpit in hand. I inquisition him, see Thundermaw Hellkite and abrupt decay and pass back and knocking him to 7. The card I drew for the turn was remand and his dragon doesn't even enter play. Activate pit next turn and kill him.
2 celestial purge for his t2 Bob.
We both kept 1 landers game 2. We stumble a few turns but I find lands before he does and begin the soul beat downs.
Like... IDK what to say. My deck was giving me every card I needed right at that time. The universe literally wanted me to win that game. Felt good.
IN: 2 Celestial Purge, Blood Baron, maybe some others.
OUT: Mentors, a path, idk.
Overall 3-0-2
Sloppy report, but I'm very pleased with the deck, especially with how the night started. As usual, I'm a bit disappointed in Mentor. Not sure what I'd replace it with so I'll continue jamming games with him till I'm either happy to have 2 or sick of it completely. Serum Visions was fun to play with, I think I like having it in the deck but I'm not 100% sure. Sideboard feels ok, might throw in 1 dispel somewhere though. Celestial Purge is an all-star, I'm boarding it in almost every matchup I play. Love the card.
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Dismember
2 Esper Charm
4 Lingering Souls
2 Cryptic Command
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
2 Watery Grave
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Pithing Needle
2 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Stony Silence
3 Celestial Purge
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Supreme Verdict
Round 1 VS Elves
2-0, clean sweep. He drew very little relevant cards and my mountain of removal and discard just tore into him. I had an early Tasigur both games which quickly closed both games. I actually kept mentors in because g1 it helped to win within a turn of coming down. He ended up doing very well the rest of the night and went 3-1, taking 3rd, so it was kind of weird.
Round 2 VS Affinity
1-2. Lost the first game, mulliganned to a bunch of lands and Snapcasters. Drew nothing but lands. Game 3, I fetched poorly and kept myself off of white while holding a Disenchant and Stony Silence for many turns. Also Inquisitioned poorly and took a 2 drop instead of the Galv blast and ended up dying with a Spell Snare in hand.
Round 3 VS Abstract CoCo Junk
2-1. I call it abstract junk because he plays some... odd choices for cards. Judges familiar, Kytheon, etc. The game I lost, I misplayed by throwing two spirits into an attacking Kytheon with open mana. I knew he had two paths in hand and was expecting him to double path. Nope, he just made Kytheon indestructible. Woops! I lost to Goyf beats soon after.
Round 4 VS U/R Pyromancer
1-1-1. The deck that Shaun Mclaren is playing. I felt ok going into this since I knew what the deck was about. G1 he drops 3 (or 4?) pyromancers within a few turns and builds up and army of 15+ quickly. I manage to get a mentor, angler, snapcaster, and monk token out with the ability to activate vault of the archangel but I lose quickly after. G2 I land an early Angler and beat face. Easy game. He got stuck on 2 lands. G3 was the odded game of my life. I managed to beat face with an Angler for a bit but he managed to roast it, not after I gained 5 life with Vault. Now came the weird part. He had a lavamancer out and a izzet staticcaster. My hand is celestial purge, lingering souls, x2 snapcasters, and a path. I'm rapidly losing life each turn all the way down to 11 to like 7 and we go to turns. He keeps bricking on cards, either drawing counterspells or lands. His graveyard is empty by this point, expect for the few fetch lands he's finding. He wittles me down to 1 without finding a playable card, all while I'm draw-going. I know that if I play anything, it'll get countered as he's sitting on 3+ counterspells and more mana than me. And if he plays a counterspell, he can just drop all three of them and have fuel for the lavamancer. Ended up blocking the lethal lavamancer swing with my tar pit, earning myself a draw and 4th place while he took 1st.
Overall, 2-1-1 taking 4th. 7$ store credit and a Serum Visions random promo. Cha-ching.
Only changes I would like to make is maybe dropping negates for dispels but it's hard to say. Maybe 1 negate - 1 dispel split.
I'm just not sure what I would take Mentors out for yet. When they're good, they're amazing. Unfortunately, they're not good very often. I'm considering dropping both for two bitterblossoms, but that just makes me weaker to token hate. Timely reinforcement as a 1-of could be ok, maybe, or possibly back to pack rat. It's just a tough call, but I'm not super happy with them... usually.
I went down to 3 because drawing multiples is often bad, but I still believe Mentor has a place in a deck like this. He allows you to really turn on the gas and be offensive, or threaten a very quick lethal attack, when the situation permits. He is almost like Splinter Twin in that you can play a solid, grindy game without him, but you can also present this threat that will just take over and win in a turn or two.
(Now obviously, he's not as fast or as infinite as twin, but from an abstract perspective, he is presenting another must-answer threat.)
One of the better qualities of this deck (Esper Mentor / Midrange) is it's ability to attack in several ways. You can go off with Mentor, or you can protect a Tasigur while removing, or you can grind with Souls / Tar-Pit. Even while you are on plan B or C, the threat of Mentor is there. Personally, I almost never side him out, and the deck has done very well for me at a small-tournament level against other very real decks.
Anyway, I have tested the delve fatties version, and Geist of Saint Traft, as well. I am still back on 3x Monastery Mentor. I think that running the full set of 8 cantrips with Serum Visions and Thought Scour is where the deck wants to be, and I am also playing 2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in lieu of Gurmag Angler.
I am down to 21 land, because for Mentor to be worth it, we want an effective, like, at least 30~ noncreature spells. I say effective because I am counting Snapcaster as another trigger, and Jace as potential triggers- although Jace often gets removed, that still makes me want to play him, because he eats a removal spell so that Mentor can possibly live. If he doesn't get removed, he just sits there and gets insane value in this deck. Cards in the yard is almost like drawing cards for us, and all we want to do is cast a ton of spells and get value from all of them.
I find this deck has a good amount of inevitability, too, with Tar-Pit and Souls. I am still a believer in 4x Tar-Pit.
Anyway, still very interesting to see that people are thinking about and playing this archetype as much as I am. I do think it will be around, hovering near tier 2. Maybe something in a new set can bump it up, or the meta can elevate it. Personally, I feel that it actually has a lot of very solid matchups right now, especially in the varieties of Grixis running around. Also as a deck with many decisions and lines of play, I feel that you can gain significant advantage in most "fair" matchups by simply knowing it well.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I came to the same conclusion as well. Geist and Mentor seems to compliment each other very well. Mentor is great in spot removal light match ups that are creature heavy while Geist is great when the opponent is spot removal heavy but creature light.
You have a list you are currently using? I like what Soorani was playing 2 weeks ago, though I think that visions should be scours and add some Geists to the sideboard
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=89988
Deck Tech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBPfO_1sJUI
4x Flooded Strand
1x Marsh Flats
2x Island
1x Plain
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Drowned Catacombs
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Celestial Colonnade
3x Monastery Mentor
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Thought Scour
4x Path to Exile
1x Azourius Charm
4x Mana Leak
3x Cryptic Command
3x Lingering Souls
1x Timely Reinforcements
4x Inquistion of Kozilek
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Celestial Purge
2x Stony Silence
1x Wrath of God
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Dispel
1x Negate
The plan is that Geist will replace Mentor in sideboarded games against decks that a) need a quick clock or b) play a lot of spot removal and few creatures. The Cavern works well, as all the creatures are Human and helps in the Blue mirror match ups.
I think Mentor and Geist are extremely underplayed/under evaluated at the moment and I think their contrasting playstyles will work well together.
I have some differences:
-I am playing Jace b/c I think he's house in this deck since we have alot of cheap spells,
-I took one Sorin out for 2 Jace.
-I haven't tried this list yet so this is theory (I have 90 percent of this deck)
-I went down to 3 probes b/c I saw them a little too often.
-Is Sorin, Solemn Visitor really better than Sorin, Lord of Innistrad in this list?
-the new gideon looks like it was made for our deck
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
@Equinox2793 : Why the new Gideon? we do not need the 5/5, neither the 2/2, and the Embleme... i prefere the Sorin's Embleme or the +1 / +lifelink
And for the choice between Sorin and Sorin I think that it depend of the situation your are the most currently facing to. Board empty on both side, grindy game I prefere the Lord. But to finish a game or to escape a difficult situation, the Visitor is better (but ONLY works if you already have a presence on board!!)
Wow the decklists are quite similar.
I think new Jace is good, but if you are running him, why not run Thought Scour instead of Visions? It means you are sure to flip him as soon as he can activate. We arent running Delver, so I feel like scry on Visions isnt really worth being force to play at sorcery speed. I dont own them right now and I do not think he is worth his price tag right now so I will not be buying any to test.
I am running 4 probe because a) we really need to know our opponents hand, more so than most decks due to how threat light we r. b) it guarentees that we get something from Mentor on turn 3, as you can keep priority and cast probe for 2 life and trigger a monk token.
I am honestly torn on Sorin 2.0.....I feel like t3 Mentor/probe into t4 Sorin 2.0 is lights out for most decks. But I feel like he is weaker on an empty board than Sorin 1.0 or even Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I have debated replacing 1 with Zealous Persecution, especially with the rise of combo Elves and CC decks.
New Gideon is interesting; I think ppl are underestimating him in Modern. He is flexible; you can use him as a +2/+2 prowess anthem for a surprise alpha strike to win, adds 2/2 tokens on a crowded board or can be a hard to remove Tasigur-ish threat on an empty board. I dont know if he is better than other PWs we have access too, but I think he is at least testable.
I think my list is 1 or 2 removal spells too light; I am trying to use Grixis Control and previous mentor decks as a template to build off of. I think Mentor is vastly underestimated and the Geist sideboard really makes up for its weaknesses.
@Scoup - I think Shaheen has a soft spot for Gideon; I am unconvinced he is worth a spot in the deck. CMC 5 is stressing an already tight manabase with 22 lands (only 12 of which make mana). If you are worried about getting run over by your opponent, up your removal, add a wrath to the side and consider some Zealous Persecution
Vision on top of Scour, because it filter your draws, that's strong^^. Scour is good with a Delve heavy list (2 Tasigur + 3 Angler + 2 Cuts). putting answers in your grave just to flip Jace is not good. Plus: Vision and Probe to draw the card you need is REALLY good and allow you to play normally with a tight manabase.
I will definitely try the Gideon v.1 main deck... having one 5mana card in your deck is not bad at all, especially with Vision (do not draw him when you do not need him, and draw land when he is in your hand^^) Never have mana problems with 20 lands, 4 Visions and 3 Probes
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Watery Grave
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Marsh Flats
1 Vault of the Archangel
11 CREATURES
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Gurmag Angler
4 Thought Scour
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
1 Dispel
2 Thoughtseize
2 Remand
1 Murderous Cut
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Serum Visions
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Stony Silence
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Zealous Persecution
It performs really well vs BGx, Twin, Grixis Control and miscellaneous creature decks. Not that great vs Griselcannon, Bloom, Ad Nauseum and so forth. I'm not sure whether it's even possible to tweak the deck to be acceptable against both. Possibly add more counterspells to the board.
As a one of, I would play Azorius Charm, bounce a creature ( make your opponent recast a Tas or an Angler with an empty grave! ^^), gain some life or just cycle itself. All good
I do not like Esper charm here... and Quicken for what? Inquisition? Vision? Mwarf