8Rack is perfectly playable in modern without new cards. Maybe now is the best time to play it (over t1 decks) while 8Rack isnt popular, some people dont know how to play vs it and nobody is reserving a slot for it in a sideboard. Winrate is great.
Sadly it's not. People play hate in the sb slots because they are essentially the same slots for either affinity or jund or tokens/boggles.
One can play reclamation sage, obstinate baloths, engineered explosives, ancient grudge, vandalblast, chalice of the void, leyline of sanctity and they are all perfect sideboard cards for tier 1 matchups. Rack can hardly recover vs some of them, or it cannot vs some other.
I know it is playable because I play it
All these cards are beatable. Early Chalice most likely isnt, but almost no one plays it and we have t1 discard to discard it.
Also good thing about 8Rack its an easier than average deck. So assuming there is a harder than average deck X with the same winrate as 8Rack when played optimally, average player will have a higher winrate with 8Rack than with deck X
Targeted discard and the decisionmaking that comes with it are the highiest difficulty Magic can offer. If you have ever played Vintage you would know that. It's the reason 8Rack appeals to me. Knowing what and when to take is a great skill that even most professional players don't have fully mastered. It requires a complete understanding of the game, the two decks, sometimes even of the players. Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa has a great piece on the subject but I'm on mobile now so I will link it later.
I am inclined to kindly disagree on the subject regarding 8rack. While it can be difficult to know what to strip from the opponent's hand in Jund, in 8rack this is not the same on many occasions. After you have taken what's important hard part is over. just strip everything from him nezt. 8rack takes the skill to the opponent, he s got to think his sequencing of discards. It is like an exercise for him in which when he does good, hw has the upper hand. Then the topdeck roulette takes it from there. Its the reason why Jund will always feel like an unbeatable matchup. It's the reason why 8rack will never be competitively unless some new card breaks it. Its the reason why 8rack has never top 8 Ed a serious event. I always felt you should play the deck only if u re having in with it.
There's often way more to it than simply selecting a card. You learn things by looking at a players hand and figuring out their likely lines of play. You know what type of game their deck is going to give them. You can see many moves ahead now and you can select the card that disrupts them the most. You can now play your own hand optimally.
8Rack is perfectly playable in modern without new cards. Maybe now is the best time to play it (over t1 decks) while 8Rack isnt popular, some people dont know how to play vs it and nobody is reserving a slot for it in a sideboard. Winrate is great.
Sadly it's not. People play hate in the sb slots because they are essentially the same slots for either affinity or jund or tokens/boggles.
One can play reclamation sage, obstinate baloths, engineered explosives, ancient grudge, vandalblast, chalice of the void, leyline of sanctity and they are all perfect sideboard cards for tier 1 matchups. Rack can hardly recover vs some of them, or it cannot vs some other.
I know it is playable because I play it
All these cards are beatable. Early Chalice most likely isnt, but almost no one plays it and we have t1 discard to discard it.
Also good thing about 8Rack its an easier than average deck. So assuming there is a harder than average deck X with the same winrate as 8Rack when played optimally, average player will have a higher winrate with 8Rack than with deck X
Targeted discard and the decisionmaking that comes with it are the highiest difficulty Magic can offer. If you have ever played Vintage you would know that. It's the reason 8Rack appeals to me. Knowing what and when to take is a great skill that even most professional players don't have fully mastered. It requires a complete understanding of the game, the two decks, sometimes even of the players. Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa has a great piece on the subject but I'm on mobile now so I will link it later.
I am inclined to kindly disagree on the subject regarding 8rack. While it can be difficult to know what to strip from the opponent's hand in Jund, in 8rack this is not the same on many occasions. After you have taken what's important hard part is over. just strip everything from him nezt. 8rack takes the skill to the opponent, he s got to think his sequencing of discards. It is like an exercise for him in which when he does good, hw has the upper hand. Then the topdeck roulette takes it from there. Its the reason why Jund will always feel like an unbeatable matchup. It's the reason why 8rack will never be competitively unless some new card breaks it. Its the reason why 8rack has never top 8 Ed a serious event. I always felt you should play the deck only if u re having in with it.
I dont get it. Are you saying that the reason 8Rack doesn't have top8s is it is easy to play? How about Burn, Bogles, is it hard to play them? Can they win a protour?
8Rack doesn't have top8s because roughly speaking no one plays it.
Summer bloom was functional since Avacyn Restored release in May 2012, people didnt play it or didn't play the right build, so the deck didnt top8 till December 2014. When people realised how powerful it is it got banned.
A question that came upon my mind when trying to build this deck: is it worth spending $600+ ($400 for liliana alone) for a deck that is not even tier 3?
A question that came upon my mind when trying to build this deck: is it worth spending $600+ ($400 for liliana alone) for a deck that is not even tier 3?
Please don't take this as an offense, but I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Personally I don't think it's worth it, but then again, ta doesn't matter whatsoever. The only really expensive cards are Liliana, obviously, Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek. Though it depends on your exact build. Everytihng else is, in my oppinion, super affordable**. The hihgh-end cards, however, are all important peices in many other decks, most notably Jund. Buying into 8Rack means that, mostly, you are investing in a strong Modern collection which will enable you to play other powerul, tier 1 decks, at half the price later on. The expensive cards in the deck are never not worth it to own and, I think, will always be not just relevant in Modern, but staples of the format.
Will all that said, I think it's not worth it to invest particularly in 8Rack unless you really want to play it. Buy into Jund (if you can and if you like the deck) and then you will always be able to afford to get into racks later at a fairly low price.
**: Sideboards and splashes not included. Damnation is also a pricey one and if you branch out into other colours the costs only go up.
The expensive cards are all used in other decks. That's generally why they've gotten expensive. $100 lili's are obnoxious. A lot of us have ours from back when she wasn't even half that much. That's what happens when wotc neglects to reprint format staples.
The expensive cards are all used in other decks. That's generally why they've gotten expensive. $100 lili's are obnoxious. A lot of us have ours from back when she wasn't even half that much. That's what happens when wotc neglects to reprint format staples.
Ya I bought 1 when she was $30 for EDH and 3 at $50 right after she rotated out of standard. No way I'd buy her for $100+. Same with my bridges, I bought em at $7 each.
Its probably not worth it unless your getting them for a T1 deck anyway.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Budget 8rack doesn't have any lilis to ever get any zombies off of the oath, and geth's verdict will get you an edict and some life loss at instant speed for less mana.
Nephalia Academy isn't exactly discard hate. You deny them resources when a card goes on top of library.
Legacy pox player here. I've been testing the academy against my deck since it was spoiled. There's a hidden drawback to it; if the academy player uses it too often against mass discard like 8 racks, they will be limiting themselves to the same few cards every turn. So they will literally be drawing the same cards over and over again if they don't choose to discard it. At some point, that will suffocate them out of other cards and it will be worse than if they discarded the card instead of returning the same cards to the top of their deck over and over again. The best use of the academy is to protect key combo pieces or bombs against duress effects. I think this will hurt Jund more than 8 racks.
Edit: Anyone remember chittering rats? Ask any pauper player how annoying the rats are. The academy turns all discard into potential chittering rat effects. Weaker than actual discard in some situations, but stronger in others. If the academy player doesn't think about whether to discard or put back on top, the academy can backfire on them.
I'd feel much better if this forced them to "discard" onto their deck whether they wanted to or not. With the choice, they get a potential out to avoid being suffocated by redrawing the same dead cards.
edit:
On the chance that it becomes popular, Ghost Quarter gains some more points for consideration. We kill the damned land and force them to shuffle their "discarded" card from the top of their deck into the depths of their deck.
edit2:
Although, looking closely at ghost quarter again, I suppose they can forfeit the option to tutor a basic land into play if they desperately want to keep their deck unshuffled? I've never seen someone respond to a Ghost Quarter like that before, but I suppose it might be an applicable choice in this scenario where they desperately want to retrieve the card that was placed on top of their library.
Cryptbreaker is interesting. Pack Rat is probably better tho. Having to tap the zombie means your not attacking which seems to defeat the purpose of making tokens.
If you're trying to run waste not, I would consider using mikokoro, Center of the sea instead. It doesn't have the built in discard, but more often than not you should be able to get some use out of your drawn card and force them to discard their drawn card before their turn rolls around (unless they draw an instant of course).
I don't think it's for 8-rack. The reason why is because it becomes a whole different deck if you go in that direction. I've got something like that which I play sometimes, if you want to go down that road. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lilianas-burning-wheels/
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There's often way more to it than simply selecting a card. You learn things by looking at a players hand and figuring out their likely lines of play. You know what type of game their deck is going to give them. You can see many moves ahead now and you can select the card that disrupts them the most. You can now play your own hand optimally.
8Rack doesn't have top8s because roughly speaking no one plays it.
Summer bloom was functional since Avacyn Restored release in May 2012, people didnt play it or didn't play the right build, so the deck didnt top8 till December 2014. When people realised how powerful it is it got banned.
And I treat Jund as favorable matchup
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I believe it's relevant for everybody looking to play therapy-like cards such as Thoughtseize, Inquisition, etc.
Please don't take this as an offense, but I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Personally I don't think it's worth it, but then again, ta doesn't matter whatsoever. The only really expensive cards are Liliana, obviously, Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek. Though it depends on your exact build. Everytihng else is, in my oppinion, super affordable**. The hihgh-end cards, however, are all important peices in many other decks, most notably Jund. Buying into 8Rack means that, mostly, you are investing in a strong Modern collection which will enable you to play other powerul, tier 1 decks, at half the price later on. The expensive cards in the deck are never not worth it to own and, I think, will always be not just relevant in Modern, but staples of the format.
Will all that said, I think it's not worth it to invest particularly in 8Rack unless you really want to play it. Buy into Jund (if you can and if you like the deck) and then you will always be able to afford to get into racks later at a fairly low price.
**: Sideboards and splashes not included. Damnation is also a pricey one and if you branch out into other colours the costs only go up.
Its probably not worth it unless your getting them for a T1 deck anyway.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Nephalia Academy
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/724241-magicjudge-tumblr-spoiler-nephalia-academy
Also my first impression on the new Lily is that she has ZERO chance of making it into 8rack.
Liliana, the Last Hope
And Oath of Liliana seems borderline in a budget 8rack build on first inspection. Maybe I'm missing something.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Legacy pox player here. I've been testing the academy against my deck since it was spoiled. There's a hidden drawback to it; if the academy player uses it too often against mass discard like 8 racks, they will be limiting themselves to the same few cards every turn. So they will literally be drawing the same cards over and over again if they don't choose to discard it. At some point, that will suffocate them out of other cards and it will be worse than if they discarded the card instead of returning the same cards to the top of their deck over and over again. The best use of the academy is to protect key combo pieces or bombs against duress effects. I think this will hurt Jund more than 8 racks.
Edit: Anyone remember chittering rats? Ask any pauper player how annoying the rats are. The academy turns all discard into potential chittering rat effects. Weaker than actual discard in some situations, but stronger in others. If the academy player doesn't think about whether to discard or put back on top, the academy can backfire on them.
edit:
On the chance that it becomes popular, Ghost Quarter gains some more points for consideration. We kill the damned land and force them to shuffle their "discarded" card from the top of their deck into the depths of their deck.
edit2:
Although, looking closely at ghost quarter again, I suppose they can forfeit the option to tutor a basic land into play if they desperately want to keep their deck unshuffled? I've never seen someone respond to a Ghost Quarter like that before, but I suppose it might be an applicable choice in this scenario where they desperately want to retrieve the card that was placed on top of their library.
It also helps that it's unplayable in anything but Standard. Since 8Rack is a Modern deck, I see nothing to worry about.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I don't think it's for 8-rack. The reason why is because it becomes a whole different deck if you go in that direction. I've got something like that which I play sometimes, if you want to go down that road.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lilianas-burning-wheels/