Anguished Unmaking (Instant, 1BW exile target nonland permanant, you loose 3 life). I guess this is the vindicate for modern, it is much better than utter end. I am excited to try it out.
I think that it is great for our deck to get rid of random cards and will probably run 2 of them. The hardest decision is which art do I like better?
Yeah that card is huge for us. I had been playing around with o ring, dismember, and hero's downfall but this is obviously just better.
The only problem with the card is that we really need to play something with lifegain now. Between fetches, bob, and a couple of these we need to consider running 2 vault of the archangel or some more sorin's.
I have already been running 2 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim , 2 shambling vents, 1 vault of the archangel, and 1 sorin, solemn visitor in the main so I think the life loss can be minimized. I will probably try 1 or 2 maindeck with 1 in the board as a good catch-all, really depends on how aggressive the meta is post eldrazi.
I have been a huge fan of abyssal persecutor which can help close games out quickly, helps with all the life loss stuff, and also the new removal can actually get rid of him.
We have gotten some good tools recently, but I still feel we lack a solid utility spell and a money finisher other than persecutor. He is awesome, but obviously is a build around me kinda guy. If we can get something to take his place and to provide a little bit more versatility, I think we will be in a good spot. I hate that pack rat is a necessary evil at the moment but I believe this will continue to be the case. I think 2 is a decent number. It is just necessary with so many discard effects.
Kalitas is pretty solid life gain, no? Couple that with upwards of 6-10 life from Vents.. Seems manageable
The only problem is the nonbo with Kalitas. I'm running lots of life gain in the main (4x Shambling Vents, 2x Ayli, 2x Kalitas, 1x Vault, 1x Sorin) with even more in the board (Blood Baron, Finks, Firewalkers). I already want more kill than exile effects with my current setup and I think playing 2x Anguished Unmaking means moving away from Kalitas, unfortunately.
Kalitas and white do not actually seem to be a good pairing to me. Exile effects like Path, Sculler, O Ring, and now Anguished Unmaking are all doing something different than what he wants. However except for Sculler those spells all work very well with Abyssal Persecutor.
I am having more luck testing Kalitas in a mono-B shell with Gatekeper of Malakir, Lili, and effects like Victim of Night, Darkblast, Dismamber, Drown in Sorrow, etc. I have also seen him used to good effect in a Grixis shell running Snapcaster, Bolt, and Kolaghan's Command.
[EDIT]: Just found out that Leyline is a nonbo with Kalitas because the opponent gets to choose which exile effect occurs. Rest in Peace would work the same way. So I will play the above list with 3 Relic of Progenitus instead of the Leylines, as my SB graveyard hate. I might also replace 1-2 Path to Exile with Dismembers, especially if I try Kalitas as a 3-of, as I am thinking I may do.
Rest in Peace , [c=Leyline of the Void]Leyline, and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet all set up replacement effects.
"614.15. Some replacement effects are not continuous effects. Rather, they are an effect of a resolving spell or ability that replace part or all of that spell or ability’s own effect(s). Such effects are called self-replacement effects. The text creating a self-replacement effect is usually part of the ability whose effect is being replaced, but the text can be a separate ability, particularly when preceded by an ability word. When applying replacement effects to an event, self-replacement effects are applied before other replacement effects."
"616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order."
Does this simplify how they are actually working together for you in your own deck? If not Please go to a mtg rules adviser or FNM Judge to explain this to you.
*Edit* what do you think of the new Sorin? i use Phyrexian Arena instead of Bob. So the 6 CMC is not quite as painful as drawing it off of a bob. And it does allow us to finish out games quicker with unique CA engine. His +2 to "draw" a card and bob-damage your opponent, or be up to a 6 damage Tendrils of Corruption. the reason i ask is that the other Sorins feel lacking and i dont like elspeth in my build since i am more black heavy going the Pack Rat route for damage and board state.
Thanks for the help, orion0051. I thought I showed I understood the interaction when I noted that the opponent gets to choose which effect occurs.
Personally, I think Sorin IV is too slow for Modern, at least in my setup. He doesn't have a +2, only a +1, so his ultimate will be very late game indeed, and his -X doesn't seem worth 6 mana to me. Even his +1 is underwhelming in a deck with a 40% land count and a low overall curve. He could be good for late-game reach, but for now I'm not sold.
Brimaz is hard to play if you are playing Liliana. Having double white and double black on turn 3 is difficult to hit. You need around 19 w and 19 b mana sources within your land distribution if you want to have a 90% chance of playing either of those cards on turn 3.
Pack rat is amazing. I loved playing him when I used to play this deck. I found that it was really an all or nothing kind of card and I think that asylum visitor would work well with him. Dark confidant and pack rat is an amazing combination.
MB:
4 marsh flats
1 bloodstained mire
1 arid mesa
4 godless shrine
2 swamp
2 plains
3 mutavault
2 isolated chapel
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 vault of the archangel
1 miren, the moaning well
4 dark confidant
4 pack rat
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 path to exile
3 liliana of the veil
3 abysaal persecutor
3 tidehollow sculler
3 thoughtseize
4 lingering souls
1 go for the throat
2 victim of night
2 grafted wargear
SB:
2 stony silence
2 kor firewalker
1 disenchant
2 timely reinforcements
1 oblivion ring
2 damnation
2 rest in peace
3 fulminator mage
This is a very similar list to what I used to run. Sidenote: you can use the [deck] commands to have much better formatting.
I would suggest running some life gain cards such as: 4x shambling vent and a couple ayli, eternal pilgrim. Between all of your fetches, thoughtseize, and bob you are taking a lot of damage. I would cut the pack rats down to 2 or 3 since it is usually best to invest 90% of your resources into pack rat once it hits the field or to play him out as a decoy then slam a abyssal persecutor.
For your sideboard, I found that the hardest decks to play against were either aggro, burn, or tron. I am a huge fan of rest for the weary since it is much easier to play around the opponents skullcrack effects.
I think that anguished unmaking is the one card that this type of deck really needs and I would try to find room for a couple. One of the strengths of a jund deck is the ability to main deck some catch all removal (abrupt decay). Wizards finally decided to print one for BW. Anguished unmaking will help out against the most un-fun card in the format: ensnaring bridge, but it will also eat karn liberated, spreading seas, keranos, god of storms, and every other enchantment, artifact, planeswalker, or creature that gives us problems.
Anguished Unmaking will really pump up our decks! so much games losed agains bridges.. karns or Keranos... Finally a good answer. So hyped about getting a couple of those
The first posible problem i see is too many 3 drops and... I would like to include 1 pack rat and 1 zealous persecution, but maybe there is no more room for them
Anguished Unmaking will really pump up our decks! so much games losed agains bridges.. karns or Keranos... Finally a good answer. So hyped about getting a couple of those
Yes!! I am very excited for this card. It will definitely help our game 1 matchups and we will finally have more than 2 sideboard disenchants for the bridges.
The first posible problem i see is too many 3 drops and... I would like to include 1 pack rat and 1 zealous persecution, but maybe there is no more room for them
List looks pretty similar to what I have been running. I like sorin, but I think more than 1 is too many. I would cut a strangler and a sorin for a pack rat and a grafted wargear personally. Pack rat is just so good in certain situations I can't see myself going completely away form him yet.
Also I think darkblast is another good option over a persecution.
I moved away from Death and Taxes and shifting over to more Deadguy Ale. I think the control shell is going to work better than normal. I'm putting in the combination of Weathered Wayfarer and Raven's Crime.
I would work more towards the tidehollow sculler and wasteland strangler plan. Wasteland strangler can hit ancestral vision and if there are no other creatures on the battlefield it is effectively a 3 mana counterspell.
We might want to up the number of stony silence in the sideboard and definitely include some graveyard hate.
I'm already built that way, herfs, so I'll be continuing down that path. I was planning on removing my Stranglers for [[Anguished Unmaking]], but I'm not sure I want to do that with Ancestral Vision coming back.
I've been thinking about the best gy hate to combat Sword combo. [[Relic of Progenitus]] seems to easy for them to get around. Is [[Moratorium Stone]] too expensive at 2 per activation? You get that sweet second ability which could be good. I also just realized that [[Withered Wretch]] was time-shifted. Nothing wrong with playing another zombie-bear, especially if you run Kalitas.
Yeah that card is huge for us. I had been playing around with o ring, dismember, and hero's downfall but this is obviously just better.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
I have been a huge fan of abyssal persecutor which can help close games out quickly, helps with all the life loss stuff, and also the new removal can actually get rid of him.
We have gotten some good tools recently, but I still feel we lack a solid utility spell and a money finisher other than persecutor. He is awesome, but obviously is a build around me kinda guy. If we can get something to take his place and to provide a little bit more versatility, I think we will be in a good spot. I hate that pack rat is a necessary evil at the moment but I believe this will continue to be the case. I think 2 is a decent number. It is just necessary with so many discard effects.
Draft My Cube!
The only problem is the nonbo with Kalitas. I'm running lots of life gain in the main (4x Shambling Vents, 2x Ayli, 2x Kalitas, 1x Vault, 1x Sorin) with even more in the board (Blood Baron, Finks, Firewalkers). I already want more kill than exile effects with my current setup and I think playing 2x Anguished Unmaking means moving away from Kalitas, unfortunately.
I am having more luck testing Kalitas in a mono-B shell with Gatekeper of Malakir, Lili, and effects like Victim of Night, Darkblast, Dismamber, Drown in Sorrow, etc. I have also seen him used to good effect in a Grixis shell running Snapcaster, Bolt, and Kolaghan's Command.
Rest in Peace , [c=Leyline of the Void]Leyline, and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet all set up replacement effects.
"614.15. Some replacement effects are not continuous effects. Rather, they are an effect of a resolving spell or ability that replace part or all of that spell or ability’s own effect(s). Such effects are called self-replacement effects. The text creating a self-replacement effect is usually part of the ability whose effect is being replaced, but the text can be a separate ability, particularly when preceded by an ability word. When applying replacement effects to an event, self-replacement effects are applied before other replacement effects."
Now, we have two conflicting continuous replacement effects (Kalitas's Exile and get a Zombie, and the Leyline or Rest in Peace ).
"616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order."
Does this simplify how they are actually working together for you in your own deck? If not Please go to a mtg rules adviser or FNM Judge to explain this to you.
*Edit* what do you think of the new Sorin? i use Phyrexian Arena instead of Bob. So the 6 CMC is not quite as painful as drawing it off of a bob. And it does allow us to finish out games quicker with unique CA engine. His +2 to "draw" a card and bob-damage your opponent, or be up to a 6 damage Tendrils of Corruption. the reason i ask is that the other Sorins feel lacking and i dont like elspeth in my build since i am more black heavy going the Pack Rat route for damage and board state.
Personally, I think Sorin IV is too slow for Modern, at least in my setup. He doesn't have a +2, only a +1, so his ultimate will be very late game indeed, and his -X doesn't seem worth 6 mana to me. Even his +1 is underwhelming in a deck with a 40% land count and a low overall curve. He could be good for late-game reach, but for now I'm not sold.
Brimaz is hard to play if you are playing Liliana. Having double white and double black on turn 3 is difficult to hit. You need around 19 w and 19 b mana sources within your land distribution if you want to have a 90% chance of playing either of those cards on turn 3.
Pack rat is amazing. I loved playing him when I used to play this deck. I found that it was really an all or nothing kind of card and I think that asylum visitor would work well with him. Dark confidant and pack rat is an amazing combination.
This is a very similar list to what I used to run. Sidenote: you can use the [deck] commands to have much better formatting.
I would suggest running some life gain cards such as: 4x shambling vent and a couple ayli, eternal pilgrim. Between all of your fetches, thoughtseize, and bob you are taking a lot of damage. I would cut the pack rats down to 2 or 3 since it is usually best to invest 90% of your resources into pack rat once it hits the field or to play him out as a decoy then slam a abyssal persecutor.
For your sideboard, I found that the hardest decks to play against were either aggro, burn, or tron. I am a huge fan of rest for the weary since it is much easier to play around the opponents skullcrack effects.
I think that anguished unmaking is the one card that this type of deck really needs and I would try to find room for a couple. One of the strengths of a jund deck is the ability to main deck some catch all removal (abrupt decay). Wizards finally decided to print one for BW. Anguished unmaking will help out against the most un-fun card in the format: ensnaring bridge, but it will also eat karn liberated, spreading seas, keranos, god of storms, and every other enchantment, artifact, planeswalker, or creature that gives us problems.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
BWModern Black/White Control
WGBOGGLES
Draft My Innistrad Cube!
Deck: Persecutor midrange
//Criaturas
4 Dark Confidant
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2 Wasteland Strangler
//Otros
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Anguished Unmaking
1 Victim of Night
//Tierras
4 Shambling Vent
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Ghost Quarter
Display deck statistics
The first posible problem i see is too many 3 drops and... I would like to include 1 pack rat and 1 zealous persecution, but maybe there is no more room for them
I would start here for mono black:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/221766-mono-black-control
Here for BW (this thread is more active):
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/221762-b-w-smallpox-control?page=39
Yes!! I am very excited for this card. It will definitely help our game 1 matchups and we will finally have more than 2 sideboard disenchants for the bridges.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
List looks pretty similar to what I have been running. I like sorin, but I think more than 1 is too many. I would cut a strangler and a sorin for a pack rat and a grafted wargear personally. Pack rat is just so good in certain situations I can't see myself going completely away form him yet.
Also I think darkblast is another good option over a persecution.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
We might want to up the number of stony silence in the sideboard and definitely include some graveyard hate.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
I've been thinking about the best gy hate to combat Sword combo. [[Relic of Progenitus]] seems to easy for them to get around. Is [[Moratorium Stone]] too expensive at 2 per activation? You get that sweet second ability which could be good. I also just realized that [[Withered Wretch]] was time-shifted. Nothing wrong with playing another zombie-bear, especially if you run Kalitas.
The graveyard hate that I would recommend (in no particular order):
Relic of Progenitus
Surgical Extraction
Rest in Peace
Faerie Macabre
Extirpate
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange