that being said, I do like builds with ancestral vision + mystical teachings + esper charms as the draw engine, it is quite smooth.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Like I've been saying for the past couple months, Teachings has been nothing short of amazing for me. 2 feels just right, and what we give up in Card Advantage by dropping Revelation is more than made up by Ancestral Vision and flexibility by being able to find the perfect answer.
Its worth nothing that while we can't tutor for Verdict, Consume the Meek is almost always just Wrath of God anyways, and whatever does survive can be pathed. Even better, with Tasigur or Avacyn on the field, Consume the meek is an instant speed plague wind. You can also tutor for Snapcaster to snap back a Verdict if you need to as well. after several months of playing the deck, only 2-3 times have I ever wished Teachings was Revelation, and when I did it was quite literally only due to the incidental lifegain. I'd encourage anyone who's been unhappy with Rev to give teachings as shot. It does require a little bit of build around, but not much.
Dauntless escort exists, selfless spirit isn't much different. Its annoying, but its not that big of a deal. Dispel is more important now, however. Throwing out your removal earlier, and aiming for a turn 5-6 wrath to sweep up the remains is likely more appealing now.
Against a deck like tron with potentially multiple threats, never cast clique draw-step. Cast it EoT if they didn't play something worth countering.
If your only answer in hand is a path, then casting it to take a planeswalker or something is fine, but if you have good coverage, play safe.
NoSB is also basically game over against infect and elves as well.
If I can convince cockatrice to run on Mac I'll be back on there as Boner_Titan soon
Should I switch my foil innistrad snaps for the promo ones? I own both sets but which is considered sweetest to be playing in a deck?
Asking the questions that really matter.
Anyways, here's what I really want to talk about. I'm having a problem with alliance and negate main, and that problem is I don't want to cut a single cantrip for them. Whenever I cut remands and shadows I feel like i start getting mana screwed all the time, I can't explain it.....
I said this about Ancestral before, but there's nothing like quoting a platinum pro. The big benefactors from Ancestral are decks that dump their hand quickly and can use the burst of cards on turn 5 to get so far ahead that the Ancestrals you draw dead are made up for. Basically, if you suspend Ancestral on turn 1, you probably are going to want to Mind Rot with Esper Charm. The play pattern is similar to Mystical Teachings, another card that shines in low-resource games and encourages decks with piles of cheap universal interaction. Consider Wafo's Teaching deck, which somebody compared with this newer draw-go list:
At first glance it looks like a "pure control deck", in the sense that people take Control and divvy it up into tap-out and creatureless "pure control". This deck isn't designed to just draw cards till turn 12 though, it revolves around soft-locking with Teachings.
- Full playset of Mana Leak
- ONE Colonnade...
- A second copy of Teferi when the first enables the chain to reach Crovax for Thopter/Sword or Elves matchups
- Not a single copy of Think Twice
Teachings here functions in a similar matter to Gifts, where you can play it for value, but there's an ideal sequence where you can cast it on turn 4 and lock your opponent soon after. If the ceiling for Teachings is being an 8 mana Cryptic, it's not going to work out. Teferi could actually block the aggro deck creatures (Zoo) back then, before Affinity, Infect, Boggles, etc. Maindeck Extirpate was great against Living End, Thopters, Hypergenesis, etc. You can even cast it and Cryptic on turn 5.
An ideal sequence could be:
Turn 1: Disruption or Visions
Turn 2: Disruption
Turn 3: Esper Charm (Mind Rot)
Turn 4: Teachings
Turn 5 (Aggro): Flash in Teferi and start blocking on turn 6 when you have mana to protect
Turn 5 (Combo): Extirpate with counter mana up
Teferi goes on Moat duty, or Extirpate shuts down the combo. Mystical Teachings goes from an overpriced draw spell to a prison card. If you've played a lot of Teachings you know that the card shines in low-resource games, where your opponent has few threats remaining and you're free to blow your mana nullifying their remaining outs. My point here is that Mind Rot with Esper Charm is actually going to be Boss with Teachings in hand. Against Zoo they discard the bolt that stops Teferi from stonewalling, and against Combo...well Mind Rot against Combo is always sexy. Here's another example, the only other Teachings lists to put up any results in the years since that I know of:
4-8 extra copies of Thoughtseize/Inquisition. These pros weren't winning because they outdrew their opponents over 12 turns; Iyanaga even turned into a dedicated Geist deck post-board against Combo, and maximized his likelihood of quickly locking up the board on turn 4 with 3x Elspeth in the sideboard.
TLDR: Mind Rot -> Ancestral is good.
Post was about how Esper Charm is more Mind Rot than Divination in a deck with Visions, but I also wrote about why this old Wafo list is a "prison control deck" similar to all Mystical Teachings lists. I won't say it's not "draw-go", since that term is used too loosely, but it's not a deck focused on drawing piles of cards. In other words it has no relation to the Think Twice -> Revelation build that we're playing. Notice he doesn't even play Think Twice; I doubt you would even want Revelation in this list.
As you pointed out, he doesn't even run a wrath. This deck is going to play out like a Gifts list, with Teachings turning into Teferi/Crovax as opposed to Iona/Eslpeth (or a complete shutdown off Extirpate in a few matchups). If you try to port the deck without understanding the gameplan, you'll end up pulling your hair out trying to make it work.
I knew it! Ancestral Vision and Mana leak are great cards for this deck. I don't see AV as a turn 1 play, I see it as a mana efficient way to get bulk draw in the mid-late game and leak is important to bridge you to cryptics. I love his counterspell split, I think it's the best. I've found anecdotally that 12 counterspells is the premium number for draw go. 4 late game hard counters (command), 4 early game hard counters (leak) and 4 conditional counters (snare) are the perfect split imo and make the deck very consistent.
Lack of a true wrath effect appears concerning but I suppose draw go is a very unforgiving style and the non land permanents on EE is kind of a big deal against walkers like lily or ashiok that might slip through if you didn't get a leak by turn 3. But the instant speed aspect is attractive. EE kills aggro creatures, and the counters and spot removal mopping up any big guys that hit the table.
I might use Wafos counter and draw suite as my core for esper control, and I may consider teachings too, I've never really thought about using that card. The synergy with Tef is awesome too, and Tef appears to be looking better every day.
Inspirational stuff Wafo, that's what makes you beautiful.
I just want to point out that that article is about 6 years old.
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Magic player since July 2011.
Modern - Esper Draw-Go (Best finish - 12-3, 45th at GP Charlotte 2015), Jeskai Control, UR Breach Moon
Yet another card that pushes away from this current Wafo list, but still good to see they got the message about that Steam Augury nonsense.
Not sure if playable or not. It looks cool, and intuition says that you take the face up pile if it has what you need and the face down pile if it doesn't.
Edit: And then the opponent sees 2 Verdicts and splits one face up Verdict vs. everything else face down. You have to take the Verdict face up, right?
Edit again: After a little thought, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this card is good.
Random goofball game to everyone here. Since the blue "escalate command" has yet to be spoiled, who wants to place bets that it will be wildly unplayable? I'm betting the blue escalate card in EDM be a dumpster fire, likely involving mill because "reasons." I'll quote that in my signature for it's entire lifetime in standard if it's cryptic 2.0.
I would be fine with a card like:
UU
Escalate 2
Counter target creature spell (maybe noncreature but that seems a bit too strong)
Draw a card
Mill 5
Bounce or something
It might not be great for this deck but could fuel delve and provide some flexible answers.
Yet another card that pushes away from this current Wafo list, but still good to see they got the message about that Steam Augury nonsense.
I don't know if that's good but god damn do I want it to be. I love skill testing cards like that. It might push us towards more snapcasters since we can just snap back whatever we tossed in the graveyard.
As far as mystical teachings goes, you guys do know that it can't hit bribery because bribery is a sorcery right? You can't get wraths with mystical teachings that aren't called fracturing gust or consume the meek.
that being said, I do like builds with ancestral vision + mystical teachings + esper charms as the draw engine, it is quite smooth.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Turns out ancestral vision actually does feel fine with teachings.
And night of souls betrayal is a real card against affinity, thopter, and coco. Even Kiki chord
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
2 Remand
3 Esper Charm
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Cryptic Command
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Consume the Meek
Threats
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 White Sun's Zenith
4 Flooded Strand
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Rain of Tears
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Thoughtseize
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Dispel
2 Rest for the Weary
1 Celestial Purge
Like I've been saying for the past couple months, Teachings has been nothing short of amazing for me. 2 feels just right, and what we give up in Card Advantage by dropping Revelation is more than made up by Ancestral Vision and flexibility by being able to find the perfect answer.
Its worth nothing that while we can't tutor for Verdict, Consume the Meek is almost always just Wrath of God anyways, and whatever does survive can be pathed. Even better, with Tasigur or Avacyn on the field, Consume the meek is an instant speed plague wind. You can also tutor for Snapcaster to snap back a Verdict if you need to as well. after several months of playing the deck, only 2-3 times have I ever wished Teachings was Revelation, and when I did it was quite literally only due to the incidental lifegain. I'd encourage anyone who's been unhappy with Rev to give teachings as shot. It does require a little bit of build around, but not much.
Against a deck like tron with potentially multiple threats, never cast clique draw-step. Cast it EoT if they didn't play something worth countering.
If your only answer in hand is a path, then casting it to take a planeswalker or something is fine, but if you have good coverage, play safe.
NoSB is also basically game over against infect and elves as well.
Sorry, still had it in my head of peer through depths. I do like peerr in the SB though, possibly in main as well
Should I switch my foil innistrad snaps for the promo ones? I own both sets but which is considered sweetest to be playing in a deck?
Asking the questions that really matter.
Anyways, here's what I really want to talk about. I'm having a problem with alliance and negate main, and that problem is I don't want to cut a single cantrip for them. Whenever I cut remands and shadows I feel like i start getting mana screwed all the time, I can't explain it.....
Generally I agree.
I've been playing them for over a year though.
Also they are signed by Chapin. So there's that.
I am prob gonna go the 2 remand 2 alliance route to keep cantrip level and still include the new hotness.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
Post was about how Esper Charm is more Mind Rot than Divination in a deck with Visions, but I also wrote about why this old Wafo list is a "prison control deck" similar to all Mystical Teachings lists. I won't say it's not "draw-go", since that term is used too loosely, but it's not a deck focused on drawing piles of cards. In other words it has no relation to the Think Twice -> Revelation build that we're playing. Notice he doesn't even play Think Twice; I doubt you would even want Revelation in this list.
As you pointed out, he doesn't even run a wrath. This deck is going to play out like a Gifts list, with Teachings turning into Teferi/Crovax as opposed to Iona/Eslpeth (or a complete shutdown off Extirpate in a few matchups). If you try to port the deck without understanding the gameplan, you'll end up pulling your hair out trying to make it work.
Yet another card that pushes away from this current Wafo list, but still good to see they got the message about that Steam Augury nonsense.
I want to do that. Right now
I don't believe it's as good as I'd want it to be, but damn is it sweet. It's awesome in standard for sure, but in modern I'm not so sure.
I just want to point out that that article is about 6 years old.
Modern - Esper Draw-Go (Best finish - 12-3, 45th at GP Charlotte 2015), Jeskai Control, UR Breach Moon
Not sure if playable or not. It looks cool, and intuition says that you take the face up pile if it has what you need and the face down pile if it doesn't.
Edit: And then the opponent sees 2 Verdicts and splits one face up Verdict vs. everything else face down. You have to take the Verdict face up, right?
Edit again: After a little thought, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this card is good.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I would be fine with a card like:
UU
Escalate 2
Counter target creature spell (maybe noncreature but that seems a bit too strong)
Draw a card
Mill 5
Bounce or something
It might not be great for this deck but could fuel delve and provide some flexible answers.
I don't know if that's good but god damn do I want it to be. I love skill testing cards like that. It might push us towards more snapcasters since we can just snap back whatever we tossed in the graveyard.
And honestly ALL I WANT IS AN ABRUPT DECAY COUNTERSPELL
UU: COUNTER TARGET SPELL WITH CMC 3 or less
PLEASE AND THANK YOU