In a 26 land deck, they SHOULDN'T, but they are. I noticed that it's still difficult to curve out naturally into 4 lands without casting some draw spells. Plus, it gets much harder to make land drops after mulligans too. I think Anticipate is prolly the choice, as it finds lands and enchants (Halo and Stony Silence anyone?) and doesn't reveal -- you can set up blowouts later with the card, like finding Verdict on t2 without them knowing. lol
This is why Telling Time looks good to me. Set up your land drop and filter a relevant draw.
And this is why I've enjoyed playing telling time many times and recommended it =D
Where do you think I got the idea? Hint: Reading ~300 pages of this thread
I think a less tedious option would be for a team of us to help rewrite certain primer sections, and each of us write about 3-4 common topics
"Why no AV" ,
"why no serum visions".
"Why no Maindeck discard".
"Why play think twice"
Why not play tasigur
Why not secure the wastes instead of wsz
"You should play planeswalkers main"
Why spell snare needs to be 3+
"How does the sideboard work and overlap against deck x"
How do we beat deck X
Opinions on shadow of doubt
There's probably ten more prompts.
I wouldn't be opposed to this.
I guess see what amalek thinks. I'll throw my hat into the writers gauntlet for a few of those topics.
My issue with Peer is that most of my sideboard is made up of Enchantments and Creatures. I'm not hitting those with Peer. It's more consistent in pre-board than post-board games, but I think I'd want its effect more in post-board ones.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Magic player since July 2011.
Modern - Esper Draw-Go (Best finish - 12-3, 45th at GP Charlotte 2015), Jeskai Control, UR Breach Moon
Jeeze. I go away for a weekend and everything turns to salt and bickering.
Primer re-write is already underway. Probably finished later this month when I go on vacation. Section on "common questions" being addressed.
Matchup section is largely being removed--instead, I'm talking about classes of decks and how we want to configure (in general) against them.
I don't think people should re-read all 300 pages of the thread, but I think it is judicious to be current on the last 3-4 months worth of discussions, particularly when a significant B&R announcement happened so recently.
For those looking at finding "the best four cards for the remaining slots"--I recommend you consider that the 4th cryptic and the 4th spell snare are also basically flex slots. In this metagame, I think you'd be insane not to play 4 snares what with the rise of jeskai nahiri, but that's just me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
In this metagame, I think you'd be insane not to play 4 snares what with the rise of jeskai nahiri, but that's just me.
In my above list, do you think it makes sense to cut Cryptic #4 for Snare #4? It's something I've been heavily considering but too timid to actually do. It would really help with the opening hands.
Also curious on your thoughts on including 2 Anticipates.
FWIW, I think playing remands make the cryptics a lot more appealing, and without them, spell snare is probably worth the slot more than the cryptic.
In the previous times its been mentioned, telling time has always proven better for me than anticipate, assuming 8 fetchlands.
Even when I ran only 5 fetches in UW, telling time was always better because we almost always want land + business. It isn't particularly often that we need one card specifically while at the same time having nothing else to hold us over until we find it. Unless you're like me and never draw supreme verdicts like a scrub.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
As for your list, there are many things I don't like and I won't be alone there. The thoughtseize are not good main deck (see the primer for explanations) the elixir is irrelevant, you have wsz. 3 TT should be 4 and mana leak is not where you want to be when you deck is going late. Also, you should maybe reconsider the absence of spell snare + the overpresence of devour flesh. Im at work cant elaborate more, but others will. I will recommend again trying to read more of this thread so you will realise by yourself the flaws in the deck list. Nonetheless, its draw-go and has a place here. Good luck with it and maybe you ll be able to change our overall opinion on mana leak. Who knows?
Look I've had a think about all this nonsense that I've been a part of before and apologise to GoodPastor we got off on the wrong foot. Well anyway here's my go at a draw go list. Sorry Annihilator0798, I've used your mana base and sideboard, as I haven't bothered to do the maths for the time being, and I trust you have the knowledge for a great mana base and sideboard, but I'll tune the mana for my deck in the near future and then conduct my sideboard.
2 Flex slots I'm thinking will be the new card Blessed Alliance.
That card is MrFantasticGenitalThrust420 stone-cold nuts amalek0.
I want a part of that with amalek0. ;3
Since you're running Devour Flesh, what would you think of Tribute to Hunger instead? Costs one more, but gains you life instead of your opponent. It was my old out to Emrakul, if I could keep the board clear.
EDIT: I mean as a one or two of.
EDIT2: I've been running the stock list lately that amalek0 suggested. It flows better the more experience I get with it, though I often still don't get that turn 4 Verdict I really want to see.
Look I've had a think about all this nonsense that I've been a part of before and apologise to GoodPastor we got off on the wrong foot. Well anyway here's my go at a draw go list. Sorry Annihilator0798, I've used your mana base and sideboard, as I haven't bothered to do the maths for the time being, and I trust you have the knowledge for a great mana base and sideboard, but I'll tune the mana for my deck in the near future and then conduct my sideboard.
2 Flex slots I'm thinking will be the new card Blessed Alliance. That card is MrFantasticGenitalThrust420 stone-cold nuts amalek0.
Ok, to make this shorter I'll be fairly blunt:
The 2x AV aren't better than the 2nd Rev and 4th Think Twice because AV is super slow and doesn't gain life to help you stabize.
Devour Flesh really isn't that good. Most decks will have random dudes to sacrifice, and that will leave you stone-cold dead to their bigger creatures. Smaller guys don't usually matter because a Wrath cleans them up nicely and they typically only do incidental damage. Big guys get dedicated removal. Either way, Devour Flesh won't help you. I suggest a mix of Runed Halo, Go for the Throat, and Blessed Alliance instead.
Mana Leak -- Leak is good, but it's really not a card for Esper. Leak makes our late game really soft, where we need to be at our strongest. A leak on t10 or after isn't countering anything, which means that you can't maintain late game control even if you get that far along. The best option for a 2cmc counter is Logic Knot, followed by Remand/Negate/Deprive.
Maindeck Thoughtseize -- this card is fine early, but again, it creates a really bad lategame when they're topdecking every turn and TS rots in your hand. It's best suited for the sb against decks that will always have a hand (other control decks, combo decks) or decks that you MUST Thoughtseize them to answer their threats (Tron, Enchantment Prison, etc.).
No Spell Snare in the list is definitely wrong. It hits so many important cards in our opponents' decks: Apostle's Blessing, Blighted Agent, Dark Confidant, Goyf, Voice of Resurgence, Scavenging Ooze, Mana Leak, Snapcaster Mage, Remand, Young Pyromancer, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Atarka's Command, Boros Charm, Lightning Helix, Pyromancer Ascension, Desperate Ritual, Pyretic Ritual, Manamorphose, Lord of Atlantis, Arcbound Ravager, Cranial Plating, Steel Overseer, etc. The list goes on and on. I'm trying to find room for a 4th in my list, not trying to cut them all.
Finally, I highly suggest that you go up to 3-4 Supreme Verdicts, since you need to see them ASAP against the decks you want them against.
The more I play with blessed alliance, the more I am in love with the card. I knew it was good, but after a whole lot more games I'm on the "stupid nutso good" side of things. It's basically a timely reinforcements we can afford to MD that does far more than just chump block a few turns. The life gain part has several times allowed me to snap back an anguished unmaking and not be worried in the least. That 4 bonus life is such a big deal I cannot understate it enough.
This does bring up an interesting question that I'd really like your input on. With a full set of wraths, paths, some snaps, BA, and a potential Elle 6 we have such an amazingly diverse anti creature suite. Far more than we've ever had and, at least in my opinion, better than any other deck in the format all with some subtle life gain as a cherry on top. My question is should we consider redeveloping our counter suites to compliment this versatility? I ask because I don't think there's a single creature based deck that really scares us at all and our counter package has been the same for the longest time.
Perhaps we could consider more MD negates or other forms of permission? More and more I'm finding myself worried about spells such as ad nauseum or through the breech or walkers than I am of any creatures. This is up to and including snap caster from UWR, because BA makes their burn plan a joke, and even inkmoth nexus isn't the threat it once was, again due to BA.
Thoughts or ways to alter our permission? Should we bother?
It seems solid and has worked very well for me since I settled on this configuration, but that's no reason not to try and improve. Once you make an alteration to your list certain card values change after all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
The reason elixir is a non option is because the card is dead on its own for the most part and because you will end up shuffling all your fetches back in.
I don't think it's really for this deck. The sorcery speed really kills it. We need to maintain open mana for counters as necessary. Might be worth testing.
Edit: Late game it can draw you five cards. That's nice, but with the amount of mana invested at sorcery speed, I think we could invest it better elsewhere.
I don't think it's really for this deck. The sorcery speed really kills it. We need to maintain open mana for counters as necessary. Might be worth testing.
Edit: Late game it can draw you five cards. That's nice, but with the amount of mana invested at sorcery speed, I think we could invest it better elsewhere.
By that point you've invested 8 sorcery speed mana tho
Sphinx's rev can draw 5 for 8 at instant speed and save your life total
I don't think it's really for this deck. The sorcery speed really kills it. We need to maintain open mana for counters as necessary. Might be worth testing.
Edit: Late game it can draw you five cards. That's nice, but with the amount of mana invested at sorcery speed, I think we could invest it better elsewhere.
By that point you've invested 8 sorcery speed mana tho
Sphinx's rev can draw 5 for 8 at instant speed and save your life total
Maybe I'm misreading the card, but it looks to me like the best it ever gets is draw 1 then draw 3.
I don't think it's really for this deck. The sorcery speed really kills it. We need to maintain open mana for counters as necessary. Might be worth testing.
Edit: Late game it can draw you five cards. That's nice, but with the amount of mana invested at sorcery speed, I think we could invest it better elsewhere.
By that point you've invested 8 sorcery speed mana tho
Sphinx's rev can draw 5 for 8 at instant speed and save your life total
Maybe I'm misreading the card, but it looks to me like the best it ever gets is draw 1 then draw 3.
No, you're actually right. I didn't think the card would fit in the deck before, and it looks even worse now. Thanks for the catch!
I don't think it's really for this deck. The sorcery speed really kills it. We need to maintain open mana for counters as necessary. Might be worth testing.
Edit: Late game it can draw you five cards. That's nice, but with the amount of mana invested at sorcery speed, I think we could invest it better elsewhere.
By that point you've invested 8 sorcery speed mana tho
Sphinx's rev can draw 5 for 8 at instant speed and save your life total
Maybe I'm misreading the card, but it looks to me like the best it ever gets is draw 1 then draw 3.
No, you're actually right. I didn't think the card would fit in the deck before, and it looks even worse now. Thanks for the catch!
If it were a true reprint of accumulated knowledge i would say awesome, but unfortunately it is not, as knowledge can potentially draw 1, then draw 7 [all gys] at instant speed
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
WUBRAd Nauseam
UMerfolk
WUBEsper Draw-Go
WUGTraining Mantle
UGInfect
Pauper
GInfect
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Where do you think I got the idea? Hint: Reading ~300 pages of this thread
I guess see what amalek thinks. I'll throw my hat into the writers gauntlet for a few of those topics.
4x Celestial Collonnade
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Mystic Gate
1x Glacial Fortress
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp
1x White Sun's Zenith
Go Away (9)
4x Path to Exile
2x Runed Halo
3x Supreme Verdict
Stop That (10)
3x Spell Snare
3x Logic Knot
4x Cryptic Command
The Delicious Cards (14)
4x Think Twice
2x Anticipate
4x Esper Charm
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Dispel
3x Thoughtseize
2x Stony Silence
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Wrath of God
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Gideon Jura
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
My issue with Peer is that most of my sideboard is made up of Enchantments and Creatures. I'm not hitting those with Peer. It's more consistent in pre-board than post-board games, but I think I'd want its effect more in post-board ones.
Modern - Esper Draw-Go (Best finish - 12-3, 45th at GP Charlotte 2015), Jeskai Control, UR Breach Moon
Primer re-write is already underway. Probably finished later this month when I go on vacation. Section on "common questions" being addressed.
Matchup section is largely being removed--instead, I'm talking about classes of decks and how we want to configure (in general) against them.
I don't think people should re-read all 300 pages of the thread, but I think it is judicious to be current on the last 3-4 months worth of discussions, particularly when a significant B&R announcement happened so recently.
blessed alliance is the stone-cold nuts. That card is super.
For those looking at finding "the best four cards for the remaining slots"--I recommend you consider that the 4th cryptic and the 4th spell snare are also basically flex slots. In this metagame, I think you'd be insane not to play 4 snares what with the rise of jeskai nahiri, but that's just me.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
In my above list, do you think it makes sense to cut Cryptic #4 for Snare #4? It's something I've been heavily considering but too timid to actually do. It would really help with the opening hands.
Also curious on your thoughts on including 2 Anticipates.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
In the previous times its been mentioned, telling time has always proven better for me than anticipate, assuming 8 fetchlands.
Even when I ran only 5 fetches in UW, telling time was always better because we almost always want land + business. It isn't particularly often that we need one card specifically while at the same time having nothing else to hold us over until we find it. Unless you're like me and never draw supreme verdicts like a scrub.
As for your list, there are many things I don't like and I won't be alone there. The thoughtseize are not good main deck (see the primer for explanations) the elixir is irrelevant, you have wsz. 3 TT should be 4 and mana leak is not where you want to be when you deck is going late. Also, you should maybe reconsider the absence of spell snare + the overpresence of devour flesh. Im at work cant elaborate more, but others will. I will recommend again trying to read more of this thread so you will realise by yourself the flaws in the deck list. Nonetheless, its draw-go and has a place here. Good luck with it and maybe you ll be able to change our overall opinion on mana leak. Who knows?
I want a part of that with amalek0. ;3
Since you're running Devour Flesh, what would you think of Tribute to Hunger instead? Costs one more, but gains you life instead of your opponent. It was my old out to Emrakul, if I could keep the board clear.
EDIT: I mean as a one or two of.
EDIT2: I've been running the stock list lately that amalek0 suggested. It flows better the more experience I get with it, though I often still don't get that turn 4 Verdict I really want to see.
Ok, to make this shorter I'll be fairly blunt:
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
This does bring up an interesting question that I'd really like your input on. With a full set of wraths, paths, some snaps, BA, and a potential Elle 6 we have such an amazingly diverse anti creature suite. Far more than we've ever had and, at least in my opinion, better than any other deck in the format all with some subtle life gain as a cherry on top. My question is should we consider redeveloping our counter suites to compliment this versatility? I ask because I don't think there's a single creature based deck that really scares us at all and our counter package has been the same for the longest time.
Perhaps we could consider more MD negates or other forms of permission? More and more I'm finding myself worried about spells such as ad nauseum or through the breech or walkers than I am of any creatures. This is up to and including snap caster from UWR, because BA makes their burn plan a joke, and even inkmoth nexus isn't the threat it once was, again due to BA.
Thoughts or ways to alter our permission? Should we bother?
It seems solid and has worked very well for me since I settled on this configuration, but that's no reason not to try and improve. Once you make an alteration to your list certain card values change after all.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
3x negate
3x cryptic command
3x spell snare
2 logic knot
I don't think it's really for this deck. The sorcery speed really kills it. We need to maintain open mana for counters as necessary. Might be worth testing.
Edit: Late game it can draw you five cards. That's nice, but with the amount of mana invested at sorcery speed, I think we could invest it better elsewhere.
By that point you've invested 8 sorcery speed mana tho
Sphinx's rev can draw 5 for 8 at instant speed and save your life total
Maybe I'm misreading the card, but it looks to me like the best it ever gets is draw 1 then draw 3.
No, you're actually right. I didn't think the card would fit in the deck before, and it looks even worse now. Thanks for the catch!
If it were a true reprint of accumulated knowledge i would say awesome, but unfortunately it is not, as knowledge can potentially draw 1, then draw 7 [all gys] at instant speed