I'm having a pretty strong opinion lately that Vendilion Clique is legitimately the best blue creature in modern by a long shot, and definitely something we want at least 3 of post board because it solves so many problems. Typically the matchups where we want some sort of thoughtseize-type effect are also the ones where we need help applying pressure.
I'm having a pretty strong opinion lately that Vendilion Clique is legitimately the best blue creature in modern by a long shot, and definitely something we want at least 3 of post board because it solves so many problems. Typically the matchups where we want some sort of thoughtseize-type effect are also the ones where we need help applying pressure.
Even against something like infect it's good too
Yeah, I've been on 2x Clique in the board for a long time now. It probably is the best U creature, except maybe Snapcaster.
I'm having a pretty strong opinion lately that Vendilion Clique is legitimately the best blue creature in modern by a long shot, and definitely something we want at least 3 of post board because it solves so many problems. Typically the matchups where we want some sort of thoughtseize-type effect are also the ones where we need help applying pressure.
Even against something like infect it's good too
Vendilion clique is, and has been, the best blue card thats currently modern legal by a long shot. I've thought this way for a while, and mentioned it before, but that card is seriously everything we need it to be.
Of course wafo played me in the board, I actually like having two.
Not only does it hit stuff like nahiri, but this is one of the best outs to ensnaring bridge decks, allowing us to alpha strike, as well as random pithing needles naming colonnade or other foolishness. People seem to shy away from d sphere but I feel like it's pretty important.
Also, to that end, it's reasonable against blood moon if you fetch 2 basics early, which brings me to my next point, letting other threats in your sideboard still maintain their relevance while staring down blood moon.
Namely something like wurmcoil engine, which is great against Jund and a bunch of the creature decks, but also serviceable against any deck trying to lock us out with moon.
Of course wafo played me in the board, I actually like having two.
Not only does it hit stuff like nahiri, but this is one of the best outs to ensnaring bridge decks, allowing us to alpha strike, as well as random pithing needles naming colonnade or other foolishness. People seem to shy away from d sphere but I feel like it's pretty important.
Also, to that end, it's reasonable against blood moon if you fetch 2 basics early, which brings me to my next point, letting other threats in your sideboard still maintain their relevance while staring down blood moon.
Namely something like wurmcoil engine, which is great against Jund and a bunch of the creature decks, but also serviceable against any deck trying to lock us out with moon.
The amount we shy away from Dsphere is directly proportional to the amount of play abrupt decay is seeing. The more decays running around the closer to completely unplayable it is, that's how it's always been. I ran two main in esper for a long time until 4x decay became standard again then I cut them from the 75 all together.
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it's a 3 CMC removal at sorc speed? If you really need a catch-all answer I believe the new "Vindicate" is simply superior. Except vs BW Tokens where i find Dsphere + Cryptic one of the strongest tools. With that said, people tend to board in 1-2 Artifact/enchantment hate against me as I am Esper Control which in theory means i could play all sorts of strong enchantment cards in the board, such as Stony Silence, Leyline, Curse, Batterskull, Relic etc. My point is, Dsphere is great when you can mainboard it, but terrible as a sideboard card right now.
Fair enough.
Thoughts on something like into the roil in the shadow of doubt slot? Both are "tempo" cards that allow us to live long enough to get our overwhelming engine online, and looking through a few pages of notes last night I realized exactly how many times I cast cryptic for "bounce, draw a card". And it's usually something heinous that snuck by, like a Liliana, or a nahiri. Of course they just replay it, but maybe when we untap we'll be in a better position to counter it / bash it with colonnade. Also works against other stuff like blood moon if they land it while we were tapped out, it would give us another opportunity to esper charm it when they cast it again. Could also be used in a pinch without the kicker cost against decks like infect, a cranial plating, rebuy our own snapcaster or vendilion clique, plus other uses as wel of course, like giving us extra opportunities to bounce + esper charm you that leads us to so many blowouts already
Sorry for the double post, but hey!!!!! 300 pages!!!!! Keep up the great work guys! Really excited to see so many people with so much enthusiasm for true control!
So I haven't been super active on here recently, and that's because nothing has really changed. I figured I'd post my current list for the sake of discussion.
I've decided to play a 4th Wrath in the board rather than the main, since I like Cryptic too much. I'm also considering cutting a GQ since the t2-3 Halo makes it awkward too often.
Edit: Other things I want to discuss -- what the heck do we do with that odd 2-of 2-mana counterspell spot? It's really disappointing to jump from 2x Remand, to 3 Knots+1 random, to 2x negate, to 2x Shoal, and end up back at 2x Remand. =\ At least Remand tags anything while cantripping. Maybe I should test Delay? It's arguably better than Remand in some situations, like against an opposing counterspell.
Also, I must admit that Halo does very weird things to the mana. I never minded 2-3 GQ in the deck until I started maining Halos, and now I love Halo but the mana is so weak. At the same time, I don't want to drop back to 1 Halo and 1 Condemn, since Condemn is dead against combo (the main reason I prefer Halos in the first place -- it's so open).
It's so dumb, I want room for so many things in the deck but I can't seem to fit everything in. =\ Maybe it's time to play a 73 card mainboard or something. Add 1x verdict, 1x Spell Snare, 1x land.
Repeal, I'm guessing, would be considered "tempo-negative"
as in, Whatever it is you're bouncing, you always have to funnel one more mana than the opponent did into it
Into the roil bounces dumb stuff like Tasigur or wurmcoils or something, and it's extra nice because you don't HAVE to pay 2UU to do it, the 1U mode is fine in a pinch or when facing an extra aggressive start.
I also want to play many cards MB and SD. You opened a discussion we should have. Considering we are can tripping alot and drawing alot. What would be the impact of adding 8-9 cards to our MB. Something like 3-4 lands, 5-6 cards (into the roil, sod, vendillon clique, remands etc.)
I agree with everything Cody-X recently said except for Vendilion Clique being a mandatory sideboard card. I very well may go back to it, but I have not missed it as much as I thought I would since cutting it.
NOOOOO JJKMAN
Unrelated - I'm moving up to Madison WI soon. Anyone in the MTG scene there? I've heard good things.
Further unrelated - I got my first foil Esper Charm after searching trade binders for over a year! go me.
Is Grixis worth worrying about? I feel like Leyline + our regular game plan shuts them down harder than any other deck. They don't have a way to remove it bar Cryptic Command bounce - which, if they initiate the war with a 4 mana spell, we will undoubtedly win.
Hey! On you moving to Madison, that's where I play. I've only played at Mox Mania and somewhere in Baraboo once. Mox is pretty competitive (at least to me) and a nice store, highly recommend it. I don't get out there too often, cost and distance. Their Modern is $5. Since I'm still really bad, I hope you can stop in and represent Esper from a better player! Always feel bad with how bad I do, not because I lose but because I make the deck look bad. But, I am doing better!
EDIT:
I don't like speaking badly about people or stores, but avoid Pegasus Games for singles. I've never had a good experience shopping there. Their prices are terrible and they act like it's the biggest inconvenience to get some cards for you.
So what are your guys thoughts on Chalice of the Void for hard countering one drop spells that we can't hit? (I'm having hard times with thoughtsieze, bolt, ect) Thinking about adding it to my list of u/b
Its too slow, countering 1 drop spells starting on turn 2 is just not where we want to be.
I'd love mental misstep to be legal in this format (or a fixed version) to go hand and hand with spell snare, but alas.
Invasive surgery is playable in the board if cards like ancestral visions, thoughtseize, etc, are giving you problems, but its not a perfect card here
Its too slow, countering 1 drop spells starting on turn 2 is just not where we want to be.
I'd love mental misstep to be legal in this format (or a fixed version) to go hand and hand with spell snare, but alas.
Invasive surgery is playable in the board if cards like ancestral visions, thoughtseize, etc, are giving you problems, but its not a perfect card here
It may be to slow. However we are stalling early turn 2 then stabilize turn 3 with a counter or spot removal while they have dead cards in hand.
I'm actually a pretty big fan of Chalice in modern control decks. Thoughtseize, Lightning Bolt, Inquisition of Kozilek, Path to Exile, Serum Visions, Glistener Elf, Gitaxian Probe, Nacatl, Might of Old Krosa, Mutagenic Growth, Spell Snare, Spell pierce, Vines of Vastwood, Goblin Guide, Lava Spike, Delver of Secrets, Aether Vial, Noble Hierarch, Cursecatcher, Relic of Progenitus, Gutshot, Steppe Lynx, Death's Shadow, Galvanic Blast, Signal Pest, Springleaf Drum, Dispel, Birds of Paradise, and Monastery Swiftspear are, among the others, exceedingly relevant cards to kill on turn two. Of course, tapping out on turn two isn't necessarily what a control deck wants, and doing it on turn four to make it a permanent spell snare is even more dangerous, and an arguably awful play. I would personally prefer to use the slots for something else, but it is an interesting card with undeniably useful applications.
Even against something like infect it's good too
Yeah, I've been on 2x Clique in the board for a long time now. It probably is the best U creature, except maybe Snapcaster.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Vendilion clique is, and has been, the best blue card thats currently modern legal by a long shot. I've thought this way for a while, and mentioned it before, but that card is seriously everything we need it to be.
Of course wafo played me in the board, I actually like having two.
Not only does it hit stuff like nahiri, but this is one of the best outs to ensnaring bridge decks, allowing us to alpha strike, as well as random pithing needles naming colonnade or other foolishness. People seem to shy away from d sphere but I feel like it's pretty important.
Also, to that end, it's reasonable against blood moon if you fetch 2 basics early, which brings me to my next point, letting other threats in your sideboard still maintain their relevance while staring down blood moon.
Namely something like wurmcoil engine, which is great against Jund and a bunch of the creature decks, but also serviceable against any deck trying to lock us out with moon.
The amount we shy away from Dsphere is directly proportional to the amount of play abrupt decay is seeing. The more decays running around the closer to completely unplayable it is, that's how it's always been. I ran two main in esper for a long time until 4x decay became standard again then I cut them from the 75 all together.
Fair enough.
Thoughts on something like into the roil in the shadow of doubt slot? Both are "tempo" cards that allow us to live long enough to get our overwhelming engine online, and looking through a few pages of notes last night I realized exactly how many times I cast cryptic for "bounce, draw a card". And it's usually something heinous that snuck by, like a Liliana, or a nahiri. Of course they just replay it, but maybe when we untap we'll be in a better position to counter it / bash it with colonnade. Also works against other stuff like blood moon if they land it while we were tapped out, it would give us another opportunity to esper charm it when they cast it again. Could also be used in a pinch without the kicker cost against decks like infect, a cranial plating, rebuy our own snapcaster or vendilion clique, plus other uses as wel of course, like giving us extra opportunities to bounce + esper charm you that leads us to so many blowouts already
Fixed that for you.
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Glacial Fortress
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp
Wincons (2)
1x White Sun's Zenith
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3x Spell Snare
2x Logic Knot
2x Remand [maybe Negate]
4x Cryptic Command
Removal (9)
4x Path to Exile
2x Runed Halo
3x Supreme Verdict
Card Advantage (12)
4x Think Twice
4x Esper Charm
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Dispel
3x Thoughtseize
2x Stony Silence
2x Vendilion Clique
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Wrath of God
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Gideon Jura
I've decided to play a 4th Wrath in the board rather than the main, since I like Cryptic too much. I'm also considering cutting a GQ since the t2-3 Halo makes it awkward too often.
Edit: Other things I want to discuss -- what the heck do we do with that odd 2-of 2-mana counterspell spot? It's really disappointing to jump from 2x Remand, to 3 Knots+1 random, to 2x negate, to 2x Shoal, and end up back at 2x Remand. =\ At least Remand tags anything while cantripping. Maybe I should test Delay? It's arguably better than Remand in some situations, like against an opposing counterspell.
Also, I must admit that Halo does very weird things to the mana. I never minded 2-3 GQ in the deck until I started maining Halos, and now I love Halo but the mana is so weak.
It's so dumb, I want room for so many things in the deck but I can't seem to fit everything in. =\ Maybe it's time to play a 73 card mainboard or something. Add 1x verdict, 1x Spell Snare, 1x land.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
as in, Whatever it is you're bouncing, you always have to funnel one more mana than the opponent did into it
Into the roil bounces dumb stuff like Tasigur or wurmcoils or something, and it's extra nice because you don't HAVE to pay 2UU to do it, the 1U mode is fine in a pinch or when facing an extra aggressive start.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I think we should explore that route.
Hey! On you moving to Madison, that's where I play. I've only played at Mox Mania and somewhere in Baraboo once. Mox is pretty competitive (at least to me) and a nice store, highly recommend it. I don't get out there too often, cost and distance. Their Modern is $5. Since I'm still really bad, I hope you can stop in and represent Esper from a better player! Always feel bad with how bad I do, not because I lose but because I make the deck look bad. But, I am doing better!
EDIT:
I don't like speaking badly about people or stores, but avoid Pegasus Games for singles. I've never had a good experience shopping there. Their prices are terrible and they act like it's the biggest inconvenience to get some cards for you.
I'd love mental misstep to be legal in this format (or a fixed version) to go hand and hand with spell snare, but alas.
Invasive surgery is playable in the board if cards like ancestral visions, thoughtseize, etc, are giving you problems, but its not a perfect card here
It may be to slow. However we are stalling early turn 2 then stabilize turn 3 with a counter or spot removal while they have dead cards in hand.
Me: turn one colonnade
Opponent: turn one goblin guide or Wild nacatl
Me: turn two chalice for 1. Wait , *****, now I can't even path or snare, the two most important early cards in my deck
Scooooooop
Or also: lose the die roll
Turn 1 nacatal
Me turn 1 colonnade
Turn 2 nacatal, kird ape / noble hierarch
Me chalice for 1.... Because .... That matters at this point?