Hi everyone, I am very interested in playing a deck based on these shells as I have had a lot of fun and success playing similar decks in the past. I am curious to know why so many players in this thread seem to highly value Runed Halo, especially in the main deck. I can understand that it would be a powerful sideboard option against Valakut and a few other combo decks with a specific win condition (such as ad nauseam), but I fail to see why it should be included in the main deck when I imagine it being miserable against numerous popular decks in the format. The aggressive decks have varied threats, you can't anticipate which burn spells your burn opponent may draw, and affinity can just move plating to a different creature. In addition, Runed Halo turns on our opponents Abrupt Decays (played in both Jund and junk) and other removal that are otherwise nearly completely useless - they can only destroy our snapcaster mages that have already done their job. Obviously several players have seen success with Runed Halo. Can you please explain what situations it has been useful in? Why is it better to include in the main deck than a more versatile answer? Thanks for the help!
aggro has garied threats true but they are all threats and halo is an answer. all that matters is that its just another kill spell woth options. vs burn you dont need to guess what spells they have usually, just name eidolon and be happy. even then if you see their yard you know what they have left. halo ALWAYS stops something vs burn if youre playing well, literally always.
then since nahiri is popular again AD isnt very popular at all, just check out the recent GPs. its in tje main because vs some decks its a lock poece and others its a removal spell. unlike shadow of doubt halo impacts the game but do nothing cantrips do nothing.
also "versatile" does not mean what you think it does. pick a card, any card is the definition of versatility. you cannot get more 'versatile' than literally anything ever. perhaps youre looking for a doffer t word. cast it any time against any deck and you will have solved a problem. you can cast it preemptively or reactively depending on whats up. and against some you just win the game. also it is not miserable against many popular decks, not even a little. the only deck its bad against that ive ever seen (and is actually good) is elves. even vs affinity where its at its worst it is still a removal spell and has the potential to be sooooo much more than that. if they draw many nexi or etched champ halo is your best friend. get low? galv blast is no longer an out for them.
even against uwr nahii it is amazing, so good i broufht in a 3rd each of the 4 times i played them at charlotte. resolving a halo means they cannot ever win without resolving a nahiri which never, EVER happens unless we let them. gut their burn spells and they have no bqck up plans. or name clique and they have no protection.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Someone posted earlier (yesterday) "I can never tell what people believe the problem matchups, the matchups you guys are going on about seem to be the easy ones to me"
So i think it's relevant we talk about this:
Conventionally I think burn is a problem matchup, but I run 3 spell snare 3 negate , a dispel, and 3 leyline. I don't see much burn. Anymore but the few times I have has been pretty breezy games 2 and 3
Affinity should be REALLY easy based our wraths, Stony silence, runed halos, and engineered explosives, but in testing I do find myself getting the occasional sneak loss out of nowhere, Keeping a good hand on the draw is very important there.
Coco and Kiki chord can just sort of win out of nowhere. Haven't had any problems with nahiri because that deck seems like a pile against us.
I think I've played against ad nauseum maybe once. I won with halos and leyline. Mono blue turns and lantern are annoying, but those are basically tier...5 or something so we really can't worry about that.
Vs lantern just hit stony silence , go big on cats or elspeth, then untapped and engineered explosives on their bridge, that works for me. Vs, turns , random mill those are probably more of a "who cares" type thing.
Interested to hear your experiences and reasoning as I spend all day testing the list I just posted against the top 10 represented decks from the top 64 of gp Charlotte and LA.
Let me know
I don't run Leylines, so I have problems with Burn, but I readily admit that if burn were to become a bigger share of what I'm seeing, I would run Leylines. After the multiple testimonies, I am re-trying out Runed Halo in the main, so maybe that helps the burn matchup incidentally.
I feel pretty even against Infect; mainboard Negates help that matchup a ton, Runed Halos is a good answer, and they can get into trouble if you follow up Supreme Verdicts with Mind Rots.
I feel pretty even against Jund; if you can Snare Bob/Goyf and Negate Lili you're in great shape. Alternatively, you can let them Lili themselves low on cards, Mind Rot them, then let Colonnade clean up. Or, sometimes, they just stick Bob and drown you in CA.
For Robots, you need the right 7 (or 6) Game 1, or they run you over. Then, Games 2-3 are about having/drawing your SB plan, whether that's Stony Silence or Hurkyl's Recall or Baneslayer Angel or your fourth wrath effect.
Jeskai runs fewer counterspells than we do, no Ghost Quarters, and is too reliant on a card that loses to our one-mana counterspell. So, you can absorb some burn to the face as long as you avoid the Burn-Burn-Snap-Burn sequences. More counters means we can win Nahiri tap-out wars (and then play Rev when their shields are down to make them cry). Them having no GQ's means we can win Colonnade-on-Colonnade pressure fights.
I don't see a lot of Junk/Azban online OR at my LGS, so I am unsure how that's supposed to go. It seems obvious not to let them assemble the Combo. Runed Halo naming Redcap seems good? And we can beat infinite life because we can't deck ourselves with WSZ. Idk if this is a hard matchup or not.
All forms of Tron (GR, U, UW, Colorless) used to suck before someone (idk who) started the +1 Steam Vents main, +2 Crumble to Dust side package. Now, at least, it's a fight, but one I don't think is still in our favor.
Finally, Eldrazi & Taxes is definitely winnable, but annoying as hell to play against and tilts me, personally. Aether Vial is such a dumb card that you have no answer to if it comes down T1.
Those are my matchup opinions/gameplans, at least.
i believe SES mentioned ir rirst and i just tried it at charlotte, so o think ots either me or him. but youre incorrect about tron. it wasntntue crumble plan that made it fine, it was eye getting banned. after that i was never afraid of it, but once i went the crumble route it is literally unlosqnle without tjem preforming a miracle. yes i am serious, the match is a bye if you prepare for it.
also vs coco you halo on finks preemptively morenthan not so you dont need to worry about your wraths not being good.
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I was the steam vents + 3 Crumble guy. Glad my brewing worked out.
Also if you go back probably 50 pages to maybe sometimes around july LAST year or slightly earlier, I was the " Has anyone tried Runed Halo? This is why we should be playing it" guy as well.
I really think Runed Halo is the most underrated card in modern, and clearly most of you agree to some extent.
Whoever was asking about runed halo maindeck, it's not just good versus valakut and stuff, try it vs infect for example, or something like boggles or even zoo.
Side Bar: I'm considering cutting 1 cryptic because the meta is just so fast, and replacing it with a 3rd maindeck negate.
I might have to splash Red for Crumble again if the Tron players at my LGS get more confident in playing it after the Indy finishing, or maybe go back to the GQ+Surgical plan -- it's stupid. That said, I refuse to not play blue because of Tron. =(
I can confirm that Tron just doesn't beat Crumble. I've never splashed red for it in this deck, but I played it in UWR and it's essentially game over. If you're going to spare at least 3 dedicated slots, Steam Vents + 2x Crumble is a good bet. The card is close to useless elsewhere, though. They seriously lose to that card like Affinity loses to Stony Silence, though.
I care more about getting the right number of crumble. I've been doing 3, 2 sdoesnt' seem to be reliable enough, 4 seems to waste to much space. 3x so far has been safe to mull to.
I was the steam vents + 3 Crumble guy. Glad my brewing worked out.
Also if you go back probably 50 pages to maybe sometimes around july LAST year or slightly earlier, I was the " Has anyone tried Runed Halo? This is why we should be playing it" guy as well.
I really think Runed Halo is the most underrated card in modern, and clearly most of you agree to some extent.
Whoever was asking about runed halo maindeck, it's not just good versus valakut and stuff, try it vs infect for example, or something like boggles or even zoo.
Side Bar: I'm considering cutting 1 cryptic because the meta is just so fast, and replacing it with a 3rd maindeck negate.
I actually mentioned the sb Crumble plan way before the Eye banning, but it's been buried in pages upon pages of other stuff. Not that it matters.
I wasn't trying to say explanations to card choices are bad, I only wanted to make the point that silver bullet cards are not exactly what a control deck wants.
As Stokpile said, updating a primer right when bans happened and while we haven't seen how the pro scene is going to develop is quite pointless.
I don't see why a control deck shouldn't run silver bullets. When a deck can't be "controlled", such as Tron, having an "I win" card to stall into is one of the best options. After all, trying to control a deck that simply circumvents your strategy is like trying to argue with a brick wall -- you won't get anywhere. In fact, Scapeshift is the definition of stalling into an "I win" card, and it's still toted as control to some extent.
Honestly, I feel like these "silver bullets" should be regarded alternate win conditions -- my main wincon against Tron right now is Crumble to Dust. I've tested a few games, and stalling into a Crumble is very doable -- though you do have to save a fetch to get Steam Vents (and I even run the 4th Delta in the main due to this, considering running an Arid Mesa too -- they even help to fuel Logic Knot). I can actually win a match against Tron now because of that "silver bullet", which allows me to put the deck back into its box and be controlled until I win.
Well clearly there is a lot of praise for Runed Halo so I will have to try it for myself to see how I like it. I just worry that I'm going to draw it against company and wish it was a real removal spell as I watch them gain infinite life. I definitely see how it would be good against infect and bogles though, and eidolon is a good point for using it against burn as well.
Well clearly there is a lot of praise for Runed Halo so I will have to try it for myself to see how I like it. I just worry that I'm going to draw it against company and wish it was a real removal spell as I watch them gain infinite life. I definitely see how it would be good against infect and bogles though, and eidolon is a good point for using it against burn as well.
You don't even need to care if AbCo gains infinite. Just play until you deck them by playing WSZ every turn. This is especially easy to do with an Elspeth in your deck.
Edit: The hardest part to get through of this line is the few turns directly after the combo, when they scry to Chord at every end step. Just Halo naming Redcap, and dont fall to the Melira-Anafenza-persister-Seer combo for infinite +1/+1 counters.
Well clearly there is a lot of praise for Runed Halo so I will have to try it for myself to see how I like it. I just worry that I'm going to draw it against company and wish it was a real removal spell as I watch them gain infinite life. I definitely see how it would be good against infect and bogles though, and eidolon is a good point for using it against burn as well.
You don't even need to care if AbCo gains infinite. Just play until you deck them by playing WSZ every turn. This is especially easy to do with an Elspeth in your deck.
Edit: The hardest part to get through of this line is the few turns directly after the combo, when they scry to Chord at every end step. Just Halo naming Redcap, and dont fall to the Melira-Anafenza-persister-Seer combo for infinite +1/+1 counters.
personally i just drop halo on finks and stop caring about their beat down plan for 8 more turns. voice still isnt common so thats the only real threat they got. also if they do go infinite i think you should scoop if youre not able to wrath that turn or soon after. you cant beat double demonic tutor every turn and likely need the time to finish the match
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personally i just drop halo on finks and stop caring about their beat down plan for 8 more turns. voice still isnt common so thats the only real threat they got. also if they do go infinite i think you should scoop if youre not able to wrath that turn or soon after. you cant beat double demonic tutor every turn and likely need the time to finish the match
^^ This is a solid plan too -- it's much, much harder to get there when you don't have a wrath or some way to break up all of the scrying (pithing needle naming Viscera Seer or something). Plus, Halo naming Finks sounds sooo sweet. I would argue that you should see if you draw a Wrath or a Path plus a counter (for the Chord that would get the combo piece you Path away) to put a stop to the scrying. If you can do either of those things, it's likely that they've run out of resources by then, and you're in pretty good position to deck them.
Has anybody really played any matches against ad nauseum?
It seems like halo / leyline save you and then all you need is a path for the laboratory maniac. Am I wrong somehow?
I played against an opponent on AdNaus for a couple mainboard games, and I found G1 to be pretty horrendous -- if you counter things like Lotus Bloom, you don't have much to fight over the AdNaus; but if you counter nothing but AdNaus then you get walked on by multiple Pact of Negations. This might not be an issue if you play main Negates and Logic Knots in addition to Cryptic, but my experience is that it's hard to pay for hard counters against AdNaus and 2 Pacts with just Cryptics/Knots -- Cryptic is very expensive to cast in multiples, and Knot is pretty blanked by mana-rocks. That said, I discovered by accident that draw-going until they don't have enough lands in their deck to pitch to Lightning Storm anymore is a real strategy (depending on their experience level, they may count their lands as they go and time things just right). Holding onto some lands to remove counters from LStorm is likely also viable.
G2-3 can be auto-wins depending on the opponent's skill level and their list (some don't play/board-in outs to Leyline due to inexperience), but sometimes Halo/Leyline aren't auto-wins. After playing against him, my opponent has told me recently he's sideboarding Patrician's Scorn to beat those, rather than something like LabMan. In other news, Stony Silence is actually quite good against them since it shuts off Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom.
Edit: Oh, and from a brief perusing of the AdNaus primer, I found a card that might have some use in our boards -- Favor of the Mighty. It stops Infect and Bogles from targeting their dudes with enchants/buffs (and also makes the current enchants on a bogle fall off), which could be nice.
Well, there's Qasali Pridemage. Half the lists have moved them to the sideboard, so your flipping a coin on whether or not that works.
It's also a bunch of bravado to say things like "I don't care about their combo" since if the combo happened they have 3 creatures on board (at least 2 of which can attack) and get a vampiric tutor as part of the deal. If you resolved Elspeth or WSZ and they don't have a Birds of Paradise you can fog them, but it's a tenuous situation that requires you to "have it" to not die. The majority of the time you're going to just die.
That being said I think it's a pretty easy matchup in general, and I've only been combo'd once or twice over the last year by the deck.
you also have to take into account if hey as a player even care about the halo. they can easily think wtf ever ill win eventually and not side in anything. and for people saying hey dont care about the combo like myself, i believ its more accurate of us to say "i dont care about infinite life" because we can beat it easily. assuming we have anwrath. in otherwords we respect the potential just like we respect a potential t4 ulamog. both are dangerous but both can be reliably beaten. ive been combod 5 times and only actualy lost 2 of those games. both were because i had no wrath and they could drop a red cap the same turn.
so same story as many other decks. respect what theyre capable of but know your game plan if you get caught with your pants down.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
So, a comment for those on the fence about mainboard Negate -- I've been testing it a little now, and it never bothers me. I'm never really disappointed when I have it in hand -- it always finds a target. But, the reason I mention it is that when you do want Negate in your deck, you have it. It still does something -- it hits burn spells, counterspells, planeswalkers, Kommand, Cranial Plating, Scapeshift, Sphinx's Revs, etc., and many decks play some variation of these things. I was afraid it'd be too narrow, but really it feels like a wider answer than some other options (e.g., I still won't play Shadow of Doubt, but Negates are acceptable imo). It's fine card to go in that 2-of Remand/Hallowed Moonlight/SoD spot, and also frees up sideboard space. I recommend it.
Tl;dr: Negate is pretty good. I never felt bad having it, but many times was very happy that I have it mainboard.
I would also like to point out that Halo naming redcap will only stall them. The can still ping your blockers and breakthrough on the ground, so in reality you need to path or wrath it within a few turns.
Nahiri, seems nobody cares about too much, CoCo the verdict seems to be "respect it, but overall, meh" infect we have the halo plan plus negates and paths, vs rdw we have leylines and negates / snares, vs tron we have crumble + steamvents
Seems like we're actually in a relatively good spot against the two top tiers of meta. We arent a dog to any popular reasonable decks, I don't think most decks in the format can say that. *shrug*
I would also like to point out that Halo naming redcap will only stall them. The can still ping your blockers and breakthrough on the ground, so in reality you need to path or wrath it within a few turns.
I had never considered this. Seems like it should be almost impossible to lose the game, except that the player can just misplay and not see the lines. This is assuming we're talking about comboing with Redcap or Anafenza.
The only time I've lost to the combo without Redcap, the guy was using Anafenza, so they had 2 creatures with infinite size and no summoning sickness. I only had an answer for one and scooped. Kitchen Finks + Seer + Melira should be much easier, since you can untap and wrath. What I was saying previously was based off the one game that I lost to the Anafenza + Finks + Seer, and I can see how people can shrug off literally just infinite life + Vampiric Tutor. Hell, any removal spell breaks that up, even if you tapped out and got hit by it.
Game one: he gets a slow start but has lots of gas, between PtE and Verdict I am able to stabilize eventually through a Company and get to Verdict the Board and cast a Tasigur and ship the turn back. Next turn I tutor up a WSZ on his end step and cast it the following end step to take the win.
+1 To the Slaughter, +1 Celestial Purge, +2 Baneslayer Angel
-2 Vendilion Clique, -1 Negate, -1 WSZ
I have a more reactive hand with a wrath, moonlight, visions, teachings and 3 lands but I keep it. After suspending the visions turn 1 I get hit with turn 2 magus of the moon. All looks bleak... but wait, whats that? A topdecked Slaughter Pact on turn 3 saves me from the magus and a wrath puts me back in the game. It goes back and forth for a few turns, but a 10 power Smiter from double exalted and Wolf Run takes me low, after teachings for path and tasigur, things are looking good, but he lands another big threat, and then gets me with Mindsensor when I flashback teachings for path. 1-1
Game Three: Game three I get a faster hand, and am able to keep up with his steady stream of threats. I manage to snag his EoT company with a Moonlight, and take control of the game pretty handily afterwards using teachings for Consume the Meek to wipe away two Goyfs and a Heirarch. I eventually get there with though with a Baneslayer. 2-1
Round 2 (1-2) - vs RW Nahiri Control:
Game one: Im up against my friend who just threw this deck together before the tournament, which he ended up winning 4-0! We know each others deck so he starts with turn 1 chalice for 1 using a SSG. Fortunately path is dead in this matchup, and spell snare only hits Chalice and Helix, so I'm not crippled too badly. He lands a Nahiri, and I stall for a few turns by cryptic bouncing it. Once he finally cranks it up to 8 and goes for the ultimate, I tap down his Emrakul using Snapcaster Cryptic. After that, teachings for WSZ for 6 ends the game through Gideon Jura.
+1 Anguished Unmaking, +1 Celestial Purge, +1 To the Slaughter, +1 Extirpate, +3 Thoughtseize, +2 Baneslayer
-3 Path, -3 Spell Snare, -2 Supreme Verdict, -1 Consume the Meek
Game two: He laughs while shuffling and says. "if I get turn 1 Blood Moon, I'm snap keeping" I mull down to 6, and keep decent hand. Turn 1 he exiles double SSG and drops a Blood Moon and laughs. He kept a slower hand for the Moon, but draws into a Gideon around turn 7, meanwhile I discard teachings to hand size in an attempt to tutor up a purge with my basic Swamp and Plains I end up finding, but Rest in Peace stops me and i die to the Gideon a few turns later. 1-1
Game Three: He mulls to 6 and I keep my 7 with Thoughtseize, Extirpate, Snapcaster, Visions, Moonlight, Watery Grave and Ghost Quarter. I take his Nahiri on turn 1 and see a SSG and 3 lands. I end up missing my third and fourth land drop after not drawing any lands the first 3 turns, and even after resolving Visions plus the draw for that turn, fail to find another land. After floundering around on two lands for another turn or two he finds an Ajani and keeps my Watery Grave tapped down leaving me on a single Ghost Quarter. Such luck continues until the turn before he ultimates Ajani, so I hold the land. After he ultimates the Ajani he drops another and I know the game is over :(. 1-2
Round 3 (2-1) - vs Slivers Brew
Game One: I snare the turn two play and she ends up stuck on two lands for turn 3 and 4 with nothing in play, afterwards I cryptic the next play and cast a sizable WSZ to take the win.
Game two: I wrath away a few slivers after dropping low and land a Tasigur but a Flying Sliver and Haste Sliver after the wrath take me down after two turns.
Game Three: She curves out again, but I'm able to snare a sliver as well as tap the team as she over extends into a verdict dealing the deal. I ride a Baneslayer to victory after stabilizing the board.
Round 4 (-) - ID vs Nacatl Burn:
Final Record and Reflection 2-1-1
Overall I'm very happy with the deck! I was pretty confident in my matchup against the RW Prison deck, and even though I ended up losing to it, feel that part of that was just variance in draws. The match against Naya Company was pretty action packed, and I was quite happy with how I played it! Hallowed moonlight was really nice to have, but I only ended up seeing it once in the three games. Being in three colors we are week to blood moon, but 6 retroactive answers for it in the 75 lets us deal with it easily if we fetch a few basics. Unfortunately two of my three losses were to a turn 1-2 Blood Moon, making it hard for us to react to it. Hopefully in future events I can either dodge all in Moon decks since they aren't very common, as early blood moons really cause us problems.
However nice Hallowed Moonlight is against company, I'm still asking myself if its not just better to run Shadow of Doubt. Listing some of the pros and cons...
+ Hits Fetches
+ Prevents searching from Path or Ghost Quarter
+ Shuts of Chord
+ Shuts down Map/Scrying
+ Shuts down Nahiri
+ Shuts off Scapeshift
+ Shuts off Gifts
- Misses CoCo
- Misses Dredge
- Misses token producers
- More restrictive mana cost
- Misses Resto Angel?
I feel like the nearly universal abilty to snipe fetches as well as giving us a little traction against tron is just better than potentially nailing a CoCo. If dredge becomes a bigger threat then maybe I'd play Moonlight over SoD, but we can use all the help we can get against tron. Ill need to test with both more to make a decision but I'm leaning towards Shadow. Anyone else have an opinion? In all fairness, I'm not running Crumble in the side for tron which could be why I'm leaning towards shadow over moonlight.
I'm gonna go deeper on the Geists for next week as a proactive plan against tron. Also I'm adding a 3rd Leyline because burn is a pretty okay deck. Clique wasn't as strong as I would have hoped so I'm dropping it in favor of bringing unmaking back into the mainboard from the side.
MB:
+1 Unmaking
-1 Vendilion Clique
SB:
-1 Unmaking
-1 Dispel
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Leyline of Sanctity
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
I will continue to advocate for teachings. Being able to tutor up the perfect answer has won many a game for me no other card could have. When you finally have stabilized, it finds you WSZ to end the game ASAP. What more could you ask for, a win condition, silver bullet, and card advantage rolled into one card. Thanks for reading and I apologize for any grammatical mistakes, I tried to comb back through but I was rushed so I may have missed a few things.
aggro has garied threats true but they are all threats and halo is an answer. all that matters is that its just another kill spell woth options. vs burn you dont need to guess what spells they have usually, just name eidolon and be happy. even then if you see their yard you know what they have left. halo ALWAYS stops something vs burn if youre playing well, literally always.
then since nahiri is popular again AD isnt very popular at all, just check out the recent GPs. its in tje main because vs some decks its a lock poece and others its a removal spell. unlike shadow of doubt halo impacts the game but do nothing cantrips do nothing.
also "versatile" does not mean what you think it does. pick a card, any card is the definition of versatility. you cannot get more 'versatile' than literally anything ever. perhaps youre looking for a doffer t word. cast it any time against any deck and you will have solved a problem. you can cast it preemptively or reactively depending on whats up. and against some you just win the game. also it is not miserable against many popular decks, not even a little. the only deck its bad against that ive ever seen (and is actually good) is elves. even vs affinity where its at its worst it is still a removal spell and has the potential to be sooooo much more than that. if they draw many nexi or etched champ halo is your best friend. get low? galv blast is no longer an out for them.
even against uwr nahii it is amazing, so good i broufht in a 3rd each of the 4 times i played them at charlotte. resolving a halo means they cannot ever win without resolving a nahiri which never, EVER happens unless we let them. gut their burn spells and they have no bqck up plans. or name clique and they have no protection.
i believe SES mentioned ir rirst and i just tried it at charlotte, so o think ots either me or him. but youre incorrect about tron. it wasntntue crumble plan that made it fine, it was eye getting banned. after that i was never afraid of it, but once i went the crumble route it is literally unlosqnle without tjem preforming a miracle. yes i am serious, the match is a bye if you prepare for it.
also vs coco you halo on finks preemptively morenthan not so you dont need to worry about your wraths not being good.
Also if you go back probably 50 pages to maybe sometimes around july LAST year or slightly earlier, I was the " Has anyone tried Runed Halo? This is why we should be playing it" guy as well.
I really think Runed Halo is the most underrated card in modern, and clearly most of you agree to some extent.
Whoever was asking about runed halo maindeck, it's not just good versus valakut and stuff, try it vs infect for example, or something like boggles or even zoo.
Side Bar: I'm considering cutting 1 cryptic because the meta is just so fast, and replacing it with a 3rd maindeck negate.
But I digress, at least I've still got runed halo
I care more about getting the right number of crumble. I've been doing 3, 2 sdoesnt' seem to be reliable enough, 4 seems to waste to much space. 3x so far has been safe to mull to.
I actually mentioned the sb Crumble plan way before the Eye banning, but it's been buried in pages upon pages of other stuff. Not that it matters.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
You don't even need to care if AbCo gains infinite. Just play until you deck them by playing WSZ every turn. This is especially easy to do with an Elspeth in your deck.
Edit: The hardest part to get through of this line is the few turns directly after the combo, when they scry to Chord at every end step. Just Halo naming Redcap, and dont fall to the Melira-Anafenza-persister-Seer combo for infinite +1/+1 counters.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
personally i just drop halo on finks and stop caring about their beat down plan for 8 more turns. voice still isnt common so thats the only real threat they got. also if they do go infinite i think you should scoop if youre not able to wrath that turn or soon after. you cant beat double demonic tutor every turn and likely need the time to finish the match
^^ This is a solid plan too -- it's much, much harder to get there when you don't have a wrath or some way to break up all of the scrying (pithing needle naming Viscera Seer or something). Plus, Halo naming Finks sounds sooo sweet. I would argue that you should see if you draw a Wrath or a Path plus a counter (for the Chord that would get the combo piece you Path away) to put a stop to the scrying. If you can do either of those things, it's likely that they've run out of resources by then, and you're in pretty good position to deck them.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
It seems like halo / leyline save you and then all you need is a path for the laboratory maniac. Am I wrong somehow?
I played against an opponent on AdNaus for a couple mainboard games, and I found G1 to be pretty horrendous -- if you counter things like Lotus Bloom, you don't have much to fight over the AdNaus; but if you counter nothing but AdNaus then you get walked on by multiple Pact of Negations. This might not be an issue if you play main Negates and Logic Knots in addition to Cryptic, but my experience is that it's hard to pay for hard counters against AdNaus and 2 Pacts with just Cryptics/Knots -- Cryptic is very expensive to cast in multiples, and Knot is pretty blanked by mana-rocks. That said, I discovered by accident that draw-going until they don't have enough lands in their deck to pitch to Lightning Storm anymore is a real strategy (depending on their experience level, they may count their lands as they go and time things just right). Holding onto some lands to remove counters from LStorm is likely also viable.
G2-3 can be auto-wins depending on the opponent's skill level and their list (some don't play/board-in outs to Leyline due to inexperience), but sometimes Halo/Leyline aren't auto-wins. After playing against him, my opponent has told me recently he's sideboarding Patrician's Scorn to beat those, rather than something like LabMan. In other news, Stony Silence is actually quite good against them since it shuts off Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom.
Edit: Oh, and from a brief perusing of the AdNaus primer, I found a card that might have some use in our boards -- Favor of the Mighty. It stops Infect and Bogles from targeting their dudes with enchants/buffs (and also makes the current enchants on a bogle fall off), which could be nice.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
It's also a bunch of bravado to say things like "I don't care about their combo" since if the combo happened they have 3 creatures on board (at least 2 of which can attack) and get a vampiric tutor as part of the deal. If you resolved Elspeth or WSZ and they don't have a Birds of Paradise you can fog them, but it's a tenuous situation that requires you to "have it" to not die. The majority of the time you're going to just die.
That being said I think it's a pretty easy matchup in general, and I've only been combo'd once or twice over the last year by the deck.
so same story as many other decks. respect what theyre capable of but know your game plan if you get caught with your pants down.
Tl;dr: Negate is pretty good. I never felt bad having it, but many times was very happy that I have it mainboard.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Nahiri, seems nobody cares about too much, CoCo the verdict seems to be "respect it, but overall, meh" infect we have the halo plan plus negates and paths, vs rdw we have leylines and negates / snares, vs tron we have crumble + steamvents
Seems like we're actually in a relatively good spot against the two top tiers of meta. We arent a dog to any popular reasonable decks, I don't think most decks in the format can say that. *shrug*
I had never considered this. Seems like it should be almost impossible to lose the game, except that the player can just misplay and not see the lines. This is assuming we're talking about comboing with Redcap or Anafenza.
The only time I've lost to the combo without Redcap, the guy was using Anafenza, so they had 2 creatures with infinite size and no summoning sickness. I only had an answer for one and scooped. Kitchen Finks + Seer + Melira should be much easier, since you can untap and wrath. What I was saying previously was based off the one game that I lost to the Anafenza + Finks + Seer, and I can see how people can shrug off literally just infinite life + Vampiric Tutor. Hell, any removal spell breaks that up, even if you tapped out and got hit by it.
UWB Esper Control
2-1-1
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Supreme Verdict
Instants
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
2 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Negate
4 Esper Charm
3 Cryptic Command
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Consume the Meek
1 White Sun's Zenith
2 Thoughtseize
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 To the Slaughter
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Celestial Purge
1 Dispel
1 Extirpate
1 Fracturing Gust
Round 1 (2-1) - vs Naya Company:
Game one: he gets a slow start but has lots of gas, between PtE and Verdict I am able to stabilize eventually through a Company and get to Verdict the Board and cast a Tasigur and ship the turn back. Next turn I tutor up a WSZ on his end step and cast it the following end step to take the win.
+1 To the Slaughter, +1 Celestial Purge, +2 Baneslayer Angel
-2 Vendilion Clique, -1 Negate, -1 WSZ
I have a more reactive hand with a wrath, moonlight, visions, teachings and 3 lands but I keep it. After suspending the visions turn 1 I get hit with turn 2 magus of the moon. All looks bleak... but wait, whats that? A topdecked Slaughter Pact on turn 3 saves me from the magus and a wrath puts me back in the game. It goes back and forth for a few turns, but a 10 power Smiter from double exalted and Wolf Run takes me low, after teachings for path and tasigur, things are looking good, but he lands another big threat, and then gets me with Mindsensor when I flashback teachings for path. 1-1
Game Three: Game three I get a faster hand, and am able to keep up with his steady stream of threats. I manage to snag his EoT company with a Moonlight, and take control of the game pretty handily afterwards using teachings for Consume the Meek to wipe away two Goyfs and a Heirarch. I eventually get there with though with a Baneslayer. 2-1
Round 2 (1-2) - vs RW Nahiri Control:
Game one: Im up against my friend who just threw this deck together before the tournament, which he ended up winning 4-0! We know each others deck so he starts with turn 1 chalice for 1 using a SSG. Fortunately path is dead in this matchup, and spell snare only hits Chalice and Helix, so I'm not crippled too badly. He lands a Nahiri, and I stall for a few turns by cryptic bouncing it. Once he finally cranks it up to 8 and goes for the ultimate, I tap down his Emrakul using Snapcaster Cryptic. After that, teachings for WSZ for 6 ends the game through Gideon Jura.
+1 Anguished Unmaking, +1 Celestial Purge, +1 To the Slaughter, +1 Extirpate, +3 Thoughtseize, +2 Baneslayer
-3 Path, -3 Spell Snare, -2 Supreme Verdict, -1 Consume the Meek
Game two: He laughs while shuffling and says. "if I get turn 1 Blood Moon, I'm snap keeping" I mull down to 6, and keep decent hand. Turn 1 he exiles double SSG and drops a Blood Moon and laughs. He kept a slower hand for the Moon, but draws into a Gideon around turn 7, meanwhile I discard teachings to hand size in an attempt to tutor up a purge with my basic Swamp and Plains I end up finding, but Rest in Peace stops me and i die to the Gideon a few turns later. 1-1
Game Three: He mulls to 6 and I keep my 7 with Thoughtseize, Extirpate, Snapcaster, Visions, Moonlight, Watery Grave and Ghost Quarter. I take his Nahiri on turn 1 and see a SSG and 3 lands. I end up missing my third and fourth land drop after not drawing any lands the first 3 turns, and even after resolving Visions plus the draw for that turn, fail to find another land. After floundering around on two lands for another turn or two he finds an Ajani and keeps my Watery Grave tapped down leaving me on a single Ghost Quarter. Such luck continues until the turn before he ultimates Ajani, so I hold the land. After he ultimates the Ajani he drops another and I know the game is over :(. 1-2
Round 3 (2-1) - vs Slivers Brew
Game One: I snare the turn two play and she ends up stuck on two lands for turn 3 and 4 with nothing in play, afterwards I cryptic the next play and cast a sizable WSZ to take the win.
+1 Celestial Purge, +2 Baneslayer
-1 Negate, -2 Hallowed Moonlight
Game two: I wrath away a few slivers after dropping low and land a Tasigur but a Flying Sliver and Haste Sliver after the wrath take me down after two turns.
Game Three: She curves out again, but I'm able to snare a sliver as well as tap the team as she over extends into a verdict dealing the deal. I ride a Baneslayer to victory after stabilizing the board.
Round 4 (-) - ID vs Nacatl Burn:
Final Record and Reflection 2-1-1
Overall I'm very happy with the deck! I was pretty confident in my matchup against the RW Prison deck, and even though I ended up losing to it, feel that part of that was just variance in draws. The match against Naya Company was pretty action packed, and I was quite happy with how I played it! Hallowed moonlight was really nice to have, but I only ended up seeing it once in the three games. Being in three colors we are week to blood moon, but 6 retroactive answers for it in the 75 lets us deal with it easily if we fetch a few basics. Unfortunately two of my three losses were to a turn 1-2 Blood Moon, making it hard for us to react to it. Hopefully in future events I can either dodge all in Moon decks since they aren't very common, as early blood moons really cause us problems.
However nice Hallowed Moonlight is against company, I'm still asking myself if its not just better to run Shadow of Doubt. Listing some of the pros and cons...
+ Prevents searching from Path or Ghost Quarter
+ Shuts of Chord
+ Shuts down Map/Scrying
+ Shuts down Nahiri
+ Shuts off Scapeshift
+ Shuts off Gifts
- Misses CoCo
- Misses Dredge
- Misses token producers
- More restrictive mana cost
- Misses Resto Angel?
I feel like the nearly universal abilty to snipe fetches as well as giving us a little traction against tron is just better than potentially nailing a CoCo. If dredge becomes a bigger threat then maybe I'd play Moonlight over SoD, but we can use all the help we can get against tron. Ill need to test with both more to make a decision but I'm leaning towards Shadow. Anyone else have an opinion? In all fairness, I'm not running Crumble in the side for tron which could be why I'm leaning towards shadow over moonlight.
MB:
+1 Unmaking
-1 Vendilion Clique
SB:
-1 Unmaking
-1 Dispel
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Leyline of Sanctity
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
I will continue to advocate for teachings. Being able to tutor up the perfect answer has won many a game for me no other card could have. When you finally have stabilized, it finds you WSZ to end the game ASAP. What more could you ask for, a win condition, silver bullet, and card advantage rolled into one card. Thanks for reading and I apologize for any grammatical mistakes, I tried to comb back through but I was rushed so I may have missed a few things.