The issue with alchemist refuge is that you get used to flashing stuff in, but if you don't have the land then your deck doesn't really work the way it's supposed to.
And a 6 mana instant speed verdict doesn't seem like... THAT great, but then again, explores and such, maybe it IS reasonable. I'll brew agai later.
Anyways, just 2-0'd affinity in about 20 minutes. Gideon man, Gideon. Gideon and d sphere
2-0 Vs Affinity, 2-0 vs Scapeshift, 2-1 vs. Jeskai Control
game ended with a leyline in play, runed halo on restoration angel, and me beating him to death with Martial Coup (tokens after an x for 8 and paying for the 2 mana leaks on it (had chalice on 2 and a chalice on 4)
The deck (both UW and Bant) is suprisingly good. It wins a lot, but drops a few G1's. As far as RiP v. Grafdigger's Cage, I still say RiP because it exiles upon entering, which is relevant against any deck with access to enchantment removal (Dredge = Abrupt Decay; Living End = Beast Within/Krosan Grip). RiP still shores up Dredge matchups, nerfs Goyf/ScOoze/Kommand/Lingering Souls (as if our BGx matchup could even get that much better), and still hoses Melira combos/persist value/Voice tokens/EWit as well as flashback/snapcaster, etc. I 100% favor it over Cage. Speaking of sideboard cards, D-Sphere is in a great spot right now. If your BGx opponent decays it, they lose massive tempo when you untap->Wrath or Gideon.
As for the green, being able to consistently T3 a Jace/Verict or just Wall->Halo in the same turn is great, and 100% worth shocking yourself in the early game. The plan against Control is surprisingly solid -- ramp hard, counter w/ Negate and Dispel, and slam so many Jaces that they can't catch up. Really. you just ride infinite Collonades and Gideons to victory, or win the easy way with the miser's Speth.
List of decks I've faced -- Elves, Dredge, Jund, Infect (thought it would be a hard matchup, but T3 wrath really hurt them -- especially w/ backup Halos/Paths), AdNaus, Jeskai Conrtol, BW Eldrazi (not Hatebears), Esper ThopterGifts, and prolly some other stuff I can't remember. Deck won most of them, only losing to AdNaus I think.
Dropped game one there, but then brought in 4 negate, 2 dispel, a runed halo, and 3 leylines.
Wound up game 3 with 2 leylines in play, a gideon at 5 loyalty, a negate and a dispel in hand with enough mana to activate colonnade.
The Scapeshift player I beat earlier played slow slowly because he kept playing around mana leak and cryptic command, basically because I'm "the control guy" so why not.
I also make off-putting comments to people I don't know, which sometimes gives me an edge, especially in larger tournaments. For example, against the burn player in round 4 tonight who I had never met, after losing game one I casually mentioned "I knew I should have put those baneslayers main" and laughed it off, which led him to dilute his deck with at least 2 copies of path to exile that were in his hand when he wound up losing to 8 martial coup tokens.
Technically I wasn't lying, just because I didn't put baneslayers main doesn't necessarily indicate that I put them in the side either. lol Misdirection
2-0 today at the win a box with UW. If there are enough interested people, I'm willing to start some sort of UW/X Tapout thread if someone wants to help me organize that. Pretty sure we must be annoying some people on this thread, and honestly a few months ago I would be annoyed myself if I hadn't arrived at these conclusions myself already.
I've also brewed a FANTASTIC UW/R tap out, and a Grixis tap out control. UW/R is insane.
2-0 today at the win a box with UW. If there are enough interested people, I'm willing to start some sort of UW/X Tapout thread if someone wants to help me organize that. Pretty sure we must be annoying some people on this thread, and honestly a few months ago I would be annoyed myself if I hadn't arrived at these conclusions myself already.
I've also brewed a FANTASTIC UW/R tap out, and a Grixis tap out control. UW/R is insane.
I would def. be interested in those lists. I may play UW Tapout tonight at Modern, since it would be a nice change of pace -- not to mention how many people would assume I'm on traditional draw-go and play poorly against me (since my shop is pretty tight-nit. Not sure whether I should or not tho.
2-0 today at the win a box with UW. If there are enough interested people, I'm willing to start some sort of UW/X Tapout thread if someone wants to help me organize that. Pretty sure we must be annoying some people on this thread, and honestly a few months ago I would be annoyed myself if I hadn't arrived at these conclusions myself already.
I've also brewed a FANTASTIC UW/R tap out, and a Grixis tap out control. UW/R is insane.
Would love to see those lists, as well as the creation of a UWx Tapout Control thread. Would be nice to have a thread where I feel as though my deck belongs in.
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
The deck (both UW and Bant) is suprisingly good. It wins a lot, but drops a few G1's. As far as RiP v. Grafdigger's Cage, I still say RiP because it exiles upon entering, which is relevant against any deck with access to enchantment removal (Dredge = Abrupt Decay; Living End = Beast Within/Krosan Grip). RiP still shores up Dredge matchups, nerfs Goyf/ScOoze/Kommand/Lingering Souls (as if our BGx matchup could even get that much better), and still hoses Melira combos/persist value/Voice tokens/EWit as well as flashback/snapcaster, etc. I 100% favor it over Cage. Speaking of sideboard cards, D-Sphere is in a great spot right now. If your BGx opponent decays it, they lose massive tempo when you untap->Wrath or Gideon.
As for the green, being able to consistently T3 a Jace/Verict or just Wall->Halo in the same turn is great, and 100% worth shocking yourself in the early game. The plan against Control is surprisingly solid -- ramp hard, counter w/ Negate and Dispel, and slam so many Jaces that they can't catch up. Really. you just ride infinite Collonades and Gideons to victory, or win the easy way with the miser's Speth.
List of decks I've faced -- Elves, Dredge, Jund, Infect (thought it would be a hard matchup, but T3 wrath really hurt them -- especially w/ backup Halos/Paths), AdNaus, Jeskai Conrtol, BW Eldrazi (not Hatebears), Esper ThopterGifts, and prolly some other stuff I can't remember. Deck won most of them, only losing to AdNaus I think.
the decklist actualy has only 57 cards in the board. Which 3 are the ones you forgot?
Fixed in the OP. The missing cards were 3x Detention Sphere.
R1: Someone who thought it was Standard and not Modern that night, I bashed through their UW Humans list pretty easily. To quote them, "I didn't really expect to face so many Wraths in Standard." 2-0
R2: Naya Humans, trying to see if Thalia's Lieutenant is good enough. Got a turn two Thalia on me the first game, which prevented me from Wrathing, but I managed to clean it back up on the next two games, winning them both with Verdict into Elspeth. She is such a beating, I can see why so many people want to run one main. 2-1
R3: Affinity, my friend who I went there with. We had three really close games; they got me double dead on poison/life game one, and then managed to double Gav Blast my Baneslayer in game two, leaving us racing between Snapcaster and a Blinkmoth that I managed to pull ahead in thanks to a Rev, and then I won game three on the back of lots of Paths and Night of Soul's Betrayal. 2-1
R4: Blue Moon. They slammed three Blood Moons, which were a bit tough to fight through, and then I countered their main deck Keranos and Batterskull, leaving them with a hand full of Flame Slashes and Roasts. Collonade carried it home, and then we found out we could draw in to Top 4, then drew and split the prizes. 1-0? Draw?
Overall, their was only one game against Affinity where I drew Leyline and I would have rather had it be another card to try and help me fight through things, and I managed to T0 it twice, but it never felt very relevant to the match. There was a Naya Burn, a Lantern Control, and a BW value deck with lots of hand disruption that it would have been good against, but I never got matched up against them. I'll be keeping them in for now, but I am kinda tempted to switch one for the Clique, because that card just over-performs every time I side it in.
I'm decent at deck building , great at playing, and tragically awful as far as figuring out how to start a new thread go. I know there is already a u/w control thread but it's full of main deck kitchen finks / resto angel stuff. It's basically just midrange
This must be how Martin Luther felt before nailing his stuff to the church door .
I'm decent at deck building , great at playing, and tragically awful as far as figuring out how to start a new thread go. I know there is already a u/w control thread but it's full of main deck kitchen finks / resto angel stuff. It's basically just midrange
This must be how Martin Luther felt before nailing his stuff to the church door .
Probably the easiest way would be start putting your thoughts into notepad or some other word program (maybe google docs if you want to open source it some to get it started).
On a completely off topic and random note I won game day with UR control in standard. Now I don't have to purchase anguished unmakings to test.
Took the Bant list to FNM -- got some interesting feedback. I don't have the time for extensive notes this time, so I'll keep it brief: I lost 0-2 to Tezerrator (In game 2 I drew 2 Leylines and 3 RiP for 5 turns straight, so I got really unlucky. He also Pithing Needled Jace AoT when I had 1 in hand and one I drew for turn. Bad luck here), 2-1'd Burn (even mulled to 5 in G2, but Clique beats into an eventual Leyline + Gideon got him G2, and T0 Leyline caused him to scoop G3), went 0-2 to Goblins (he admitted he got insane hands both games), and then 2-0 vs. Affinity. So, 2-2 overall.
I got a suggestion that may work out well -- someone suggested running a split of Mind Stone/Everflowing Chalice instead of the G spells and stay UW. I think this is my next approach to the list, and I suspect it'll be better than the Bant version. The only reason for playing G is to t3 a four drop, but Stone/Chalice both do that with extra bonuses.
I have been following this thread for a while now, more than a year and a half and I started reading it from page 1 a long time ago. I ve been stalking and changing my esper draw go deck following the suggestions and testing ideas that were made by you. So first, thank you. I love esper and you guys helped me alot. On another note, I don't know what the hell is happening in the last 20 pages or so. People keep posting non-esper lists or non-draw go. I feel like its very important for our deck to maximise our cognitive attention on our deck to find what can push it forward. If some people want to get out of the bus because they feel the deck underperforms, I would clearly understand, but giving options that is NOT the deck we play is not a contribution in my opinion. We went from being tired of argumenting over serum visions, lingering souls, jaot, mana leak to lets just build another deck? What's wrong folks? It's not like I don't respect that people want to play different decks, it's just that I feel that this is not the place. And btw, I don't really care if your UW list or jeskai list did good last week. I am here for esper draw-go, and I will devour every single info you can bring on the deck we all (used to) love!
I play the usual list with -2 sod +1 remand +1 condemn
Rd1 green stompy
Easy game 1 and 2. Wraths get there, I see no Thrun, no nothing.
Rd2 ad nauseam
Game 1, I got him with esper charm, mind rot is a beast there.
Game 2, he leads with a leyline and goes spoils from the vault naming lotus bloom. 20 cards later he is dead. I won and I haven't played a single land. Must be the fastest Esper draw go win in the history
Rd3 burn
Game 1 and 2 I get trampled on. Double goblin guide openers 2x, bolts and crap. Not much I could do.
Rd4 big zoo
Easy win again. Both game. My opponent was locked down. Between pte, wrath, snare and cryptic, the guy was pretty much screwed.
3-1 for the night.
All in all, I want to thank this community for the great intellectual work it has done over the past years. You are all amazing! Let's continue that work and think outside the box but INSIDE our deck design. Thank's y'all
I'm decent at deck building , great at playing, and tragically awful as far as figuring out how to start a new thread go. I know there is already a u/w control thread but it's full of main deck kitchen finks / resto angel stuff. It's basically just midrange
This must be how Martin Luther felt before nailing his stuff to the church door .
Welcome to the club, I've been *****ing about this for a while now since I moved over to UW draw go rather than esper. The decks are similar enough that talking about them in the same thread I imagine is "fine" but i would be nice to have another thread. But tap out decks play completely different as the name suggests so they would really need their own thread.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
I have been following this thread for a while now, more than a year and a half and I started reading it from page 1 a long time ago. I ve been stalking and changing my esper draw go deck following the suggestions and testing ideas that were made by you. So first, thank you. I love esper and you guys helped me alot. On another note, I don't know what the hell is happening in the last 20 pages or so. People keep posting non-esper lists or non-draw go. I feel like its very important for our deck to maximise our cognitive attention on our deck to find what can push it forward. If some people want to get out of the bus because they feel the deck underperforms, I would clearly understand, but giving options that is NOT the deck we play is not a contribution in my opinion. We went from being tired of argumenting over serum visions, lingering souls, jaot, mana leak to lets just build another deck? What's wrong folks? It's not like I don't respect that people want to play different decks, it's just that I feel that this is not the place. And btw, I don't really care if your UW list or jeskai list did good last week. I am here for esper draw-go, and I will devour every single info you can bring on the deck we all (used to) love!
I play the usual list with -2 sod +1 remand +1 condemn
Rd1 green stompy
Easy game 1 and 2. Wraths get there, I see no Thrun, no nothing.
Rd2 ad nauseam
Game 1, I got him with esper charm, mind rot is a beast there.
Game 2, he leads with a leyline and goes spoils from the vault naming lotus bloom. 20 cards later he is dead. I won and I haven't played a single land. Must be the fastest Esper draw go win in the history
Rd3 burn
Game 1 and 2 I get trampled on. Double goblin guide openers 2x, bolts and crap. Not much I could do.
Rd4 big zoo
Easy win again. Both game. My opponent was locked down. Between pte, wrath, snare and cryptic, the guy was pretty much screwed.
3-1 for the night.
All in all, I want to thank this community for the great intellectual work it has done over the past years. You are all amazing! Let's continue that work and think outside the box but INSIDE our deck design. Thank's y'all
You have to consider what is relevant to the meta. Not sure if it's worth looking at, but a slight shift towards a more UWr approach (not talking about the playing UWr, but taking some of the ideas behind it) might be worth it if the meta looks as fast as it did at states. Arguably a slightly higher spot removal count depending on how fast the meta ends up looking after Milwaukee. Not talking about going to the extreme of 15+ removal spells not counting sweepers, but going up 2-3 might be worth it.
I'd argue that Leylines mainboard are looking pretty good right now with scapeshift making a huge resurgence. It also has major interactions with some of the big decks right now (blanking Karn +, Thought-Knot Seer, Burn, Ugin +, ad nauseam, grapeshot).
Edit: I also don't really have an issue with people discussing other decks as long as it doesn't derail too long. 1-2 pages top, which is why Sentimental_Engine_Slayer is working on creating a UW tapout thread that isn't midrange.
Yes. It's also important to understand I didn't arrive at uw Tapout bc I wanted to just jump ship. I've played esper draw go for almost two years, hundreds and hundreds of matches, mostly with some form of detailed notes. I sat down and actually put those notes to use and tweaked the actual weak spots in relation to the metagame, bc I care about winning, not building a control deck backwards by starting with a list and then hoping the metagame is nice to me.
That's a fine way to build combo decks, that is the patently wrong way to build a control deck.
Working on somehow branching off of here though and doing a uw Tapout control thread seeing as now I'm winning about 80% more than I have been in the past month or two. If the meta shifts back to where esper draw go doesn't just get slammed 24/7, I'll be back here.
Yeah, it's not that anyone here is dropping Esper (I still even have my list sleeved up), but I get bored super easily. I always try out a variety of blue decks to see what I do and don't like about them.
It's important to do things in moderation -- I focus 80-90% of my time on Esper. That said, a good 10-20% on other decks lets me stay in the groove a little -- it's better than jamming Esper 24/7 and getting caught up in hyper tuning it until you never win because you're not playing a list that you're comfortable with. You all may have noticed that I typically run back the same Esper list at my LGS w/ minor changes, and do 99% of my testing on XMage. I firmly believe that one of the most important aspects of playing is Esper is being comfortable playing it.
So continuing that logic, if at any point I don't feel inspired to play Esper at a tournament, I play something else (or just don't play). That way, I feel invested in what I'm doing, and not robotic.
I also made an esper Tapout list with Ashioks and that's performing well so far this morning in testing. Really well. I like the option of having sideboard thoughtseize stuff to help land a walker through countermagic.
Edit:
The uw list is still just better. Perfect mana base and smoother draws.
It's me again. Still. Awake. Haven't lost a match since midnight. Thank god for dedicated test groups. Not only did we brew up some sweet lantern deck with the thopter combo, I've been slinging this montrosity. Undefeated against infect, Merfolk, affinity, running at 70 percent vs burn in matches, 70 vs Jund, only dropped one game out of 7 vs zoo. One game out of 5 vs living end, undefeated in matches vs griselbrand, undefeated in 8 out of 8 games cs Abzan coco.
Probably gonna drift off to sleep soon, but here's the list for you all to scoff at. Love you guys.
Really digging this list and I'm going to be running it going forward. One question though, is it ideal to make Everflowing Chalice your turn 2 play? Or do you typically try and hold it to kick it more than once?
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And a 6 mana instant speed verdict doesn't seem like... THAT great, but then again, explores and such, maybe it IS reasonable. I'll brew agai later.
Anyways, just 2-0'd affinity in about 20 minutes. Gideon man, Gideon. Gideon and d sphere
Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket
Edit:
3-0
2-0 Vs Affinity, 2-0 vs Scapeshift, 2-1 vs. Jeskai Control
game ended with a leyline in play, runed halo on restoration angel, and me beating him to death with Martial Coup (tokens after an x for 8 and paying for the 2 mana leaks on it (had chalice on 2 and a chalice on 4)
This is why you don't play the signets.
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Glacial Fortress
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Island
3x Plains
1x Forest
4x Flooded Strand
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Breeding Pool
1x Temple Garden
4x Explore
3x Farseek
Removal (13)
4x Path to Exile
2x Runed Halo
3x Detention Sphere
4x Supreme Verdict
Threats (4)
3x Gideon Jura
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Card Advantage (10)
4x Wall of Omens
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Dispel
1x Pithing Needle
3x Rest in Peace
4x Negate
1x Runed Halo
1x Vendilion Clique
3x Leyline of Sanctity
The deck (both UW and Bant) is suprisingly good. It wins a lot, but drops a few G1's. As far as RiP v. Grafdigger's Cage, I still say RiP because it exiles upon entering, which is relevant against any deck with access to enchantment removal (Dredge = Abrupt Decay; Living End = Beast Within/Krosan Grip). RiP still shores up Dredge matchups, nerfs Goyf/ScOoze/Kommand/Lingering Souls (as if our BGx matchup could even get that much better), and still hoses Melira combos/persist value/Voice tokens/EWit as well as flashback/snapcaster, etc. I 100% favor it over Cage. Speaking of sideboard cards, D-Sphere is in a great spot right now. If your BGx opponent decays it, they lose massive tempo when you untap->Wrath or Gideon.
As for the green, being able to consistently T3 a Jace/Verict or just Wall->Halo in the same turn is great, and 100% worth shocking yourself in the early game. The plan against Control is surprisingly solid -- ramp hard, counter w/ Negate and Dispel, and slam so many Jaces that they can't catch up. Really. you just ride infinite Collonades and Gideons to victory, or win the easy way with the miser's Speth.
List of decks I've faced -- Elves, Dredge, Jund, Infect (thought it would be a hard matchup, but T3 wrath really hurt them -- especially w/ backup Halos/Paths), AdNaus, Jeskai Conrtol, BW Eldrazi (not Hatebears), Esper ThopterGifts, and prolly some other stuff I can't remember. Deck won most of them, only losing to AdNaus I think.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
went 2-1 against Burn in round 4.
Dropped game one there, but then brought in 4 negate, 2 dispel, a runed halo, and 3 leylines.
Wound up game 3 with 2 leylines in play, a gideon at 5 loyalty, a negate and a dispel in hand with enough mana to activate colonnade.
The Scapeshift player I beat earlier played slow slowly because he kept playing around mana leak and cryptic command, basically because I'm "the control guy" so why not.
I also make off-putting comments to people I don't know, which sometimes gives me an edge, especially in larger tournaments. For example, against the burn player in round 4 tonight who I had never met, after losing game one I casually mentioned "I knew I should have put those baneslayers main" and laughed it off, which led him to dilute his deck with at least 2 copies of path to exile that were in his hand when he wound up losing to 8 martial coup tokens.
Technically I wasn't lying, just because I didn't put baneslayers main doesn't necessarily indicate that I put them in the side either. lol Misdirection
I've also brewed a FANTASTIC UW/R tap out, and a Grixis tap out control. UW/R is insane.
I would def. be interested in those lists. I may play UW Tapout tonight at Modern, since it would be a nice change of pace -- not to mention how many people would assume I'm on traditional draw-go and play poorly against me (since my shop is pretty tight-nit. Not sure whether I should or not tho.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Would love to see those lists, as well as the creation of a UWx Tapout Control thread. Would be nice to have a thread where I feel as though my deck belongs in.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Fixed in the OP. The missing cards were 3x Detention Sphere.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
4x Path to Exile
1x Celestial Flare
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
Counters (10)
4x Spell Snare
2x Logic Knot
1x Remand
3x Cryptic Command
Draw (11)
1x Shadow of Doubt
4x Think Twice
4x Esper Charm
2x Sphinx's Revelation
Utility/Finishers (5)
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x White Sun's Zenith
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Drowned Catacomb
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Celestial Purge
1x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Night of Soul's Betrayal
2x Thoughtseize
R1: Someone who thought it was Standard and not Modern that night, I bashed through their UW Humans list pretty easily. To quote them, "I didn't really expect to face so many Wraths in Standard." 2-0
R2: Naya Humans, trying to see if Thalia's Lieutenant is good enough. Got a turn two Thalia on me the first game, which prevented me from Wrathing, but I managed to clean it back up on the next two games, winning them both with Verdict into Elspeth. She is such a beating, I can see why so many people want to run one main. 2-1
R3: Affinity, my friend who I went there with. We had three really close games; they got me double dead on poison/life game one, and then managed to double Gav Blast my Baneslayer in game two, leaving us racing between Snapcaster and a Blinkmoth that I managed to pull ahead in thanks to a Rev, and then I won game three on the back of lots of Paths and Night of Soul's Betrayal. 2-1
R4: Blue Moon. They slammed three Blood Moons, which were a bit tough to fight through, and then I countered their main deck Keranos and Batterskull, leaving them with a hand full of Flame Slashes and Roasts. Collonade carried it home, and then we found out we could draw in to Top 4, then drew and split the prizes. 1-0? Draw?
Overall, their was only one game against Affinity where I drew Leyline and I would have rather had it be another card to try and help me fight through things, and I managed to T0 it twice, but it never felt very relevant to the match. There was a Naya Burn, a Lantern Control, and a BW value deck with lots of hand disruption that it would have been good against, but I never got matched up against them. I'll be keeping them in for now, but I am kinda tempted to switch one for the Clique, because that card just over-performs every time I side it in.
This must be how Martin Luther felt before nailing his stuff to the church door .
Probably the easiest way would be start putting your thoughts into notepad or some other word program (maybe google docs if you want to open source it some to get it started).
On a completely off topic and random note I won game day with UR control in standard. Now I don't have to purchase anguished unmakings to test.
I got a suggestion that may work out well -- someone suggested running a split of Mind Stone/Everflowing Chalice instead of the G spells and stay UW. I think this is my next approach to the list, and I suspect it'll be better than the Bant version. The only reason for playing G is to t3 a four drop, but Stone/Chalice both do that with extra bonuses.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I have been following this thread for a while now, more than a year and a half and I started reading it from page 1 a long time ago. I ve been stalking and changing my esper draw go deck following the suggestions and testing ideas that were made by you. So first, thank you. I love esper and you guys helped me alot. On another note, I don't know what the hell is happening in the last 20 pages or so. People keep posting non-esper lists or non-draw go. I feel like its very important for our deck to maximise our cognitive attention on our deck to find what can push it forward. If some people want to get out of the bus because they feel the deck underperforms, I would clearly understand, but giving options that is NOT the deck we play is not a contribution in my opinion. We went from being tired of argumenting over serum visions, lingering souls, jaot, mana leak to lets just build another deck? What's wrong folks? It's not like I don't respect that people want to play different decks, it's just that I feel that this is not the place. And btw, I don't really care if your UW list or jeskai list did good last week. I am here for esper draw-go, and I will devour every single info you can bring on the deck we all (used to) love!
I play the usual list with -2 sod +1 remand +1 condemn
Rd1 green stompy
Easy game 1 and 2. Wraths get there, I see no Thrun, no nothing.
Rd2 ad nauseam
Game 1, I got him with esper charm, mind rot is a beast there.
Game 2, he leads with a leyline and goes spoils from the vault naming lotus bloom. 20 cards later he is dead. I won and I haven't played a single land. Must be the fastest Esper draw go win in the history
Rd3 burn
Game 1 and 2 I get trampled on. Double goblin guide openers 2x, bolts and crap. Not much I could do.
Rd4 big zoo
Easy win again. Both game. My opponent was locked down. Between pte, wrath, snare and cryptic, the guy was pretty much screwed.
3-1 for the night.
All in all, I want to thank this community for the great intellectual work it has done over the past years. You are all amazing! Let's continue that work and think outside the box but INSIDE our deck design. Thank's y'all
Welcome to the club, I've been *****ing about this for a while now since I moved over to UW draw go rather than esper. The decks are similar enough that talking about them in the same thread I imagine is "fine" but i would be nice to have another thread. But tap out decks play completely different as the name suggests so they would really need their own thread.
You have to consider what is relevant to the meta. Not sure if it's worth looking at, but a slight shift towards a more UWr approach (not talking about the playing UWr, but taking some of the ideas behind it) might be worth it if the meta looks as fast as it did at states. Arguably a slightly higher spot removal count depending on how fast the meta ends up looking after Milwaukee. Not talking about going to the extreme of 15+ removal spells not counting sweepers, but going up 2-3 might be worth it.
I'd argue that Leylines mainboard are looking pretty good right now with scapeshift making a huge resurgence. It also has major interactions with some of the big decks right now (blanking Karn +, Thought-Knot Seer, Burn, Ugin +, ad nauseam, grapeshot).
Edit: I also don't really have an issue with people discussing other decks as long as it doesn't derail too long. 1-2 pages top, which is why Sentimental_Engine_Slayer is working on creating a UW tapout thread that isn't midrange.
That's a fine way to build combo decks, that is the patently wrong way to build a control deck.
Working on somehow branching off of here though and doing a uw Tapout control thread seeing as now I'm winning about 80% more than I have been in the past month or two. If the meta shifts back to where esper draw go doesn't just get slammed 24/7, I'll be back here.
It's important to do things in moderation -- I focus 80-90% of my time on Esper. That said, a good 10-20% on other decks lets me stay in the groove a little -- it's better than jamming Esper 24/7 and getting caught up in hyper tuning it until you never win because you're not playing a list that you're comfortable with. You all may have noticed that I typically run back the same Esper list at my LGS w/ minor changes, and do 99% of my testing on XMage. I firmly believe that one of the most important aspects of playing is Esper is being comfortable playing it.
So continuing that logic, if at any point I don't feel inspired to play Esper at a tournament, I play something else (or just don't play). That way, I feel invested in what I'm doing, and not robotic.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Edit:
The uw list is still just better. Perfect mana base and smoother draws.
Really digging this list and I'm going to be running it going forward. One question though, is it ideal to make Everflowing Chalice your turn 2 play? Or do you typically try and hold it to kick it more than once?