Everybody knows rg tron and Jund aren't control, I think he was just trying to prove some weird theoretical point bc he doesn't like the list. Which is fine, I readily admitted this wasn't the right place to put it, I just thought it was interesting bc I arrived there by tweaking the wafo list here and there over time over hundreds of matches and documenting what worked and what would have been better. I'm not trying to derail, I'm just saying think critically about the meta. Are are you really happy to see those remands against.... Well... ANY of the meta besides maybe grixis control or some weird non existent mirror? Maybe against AV decks , but even then you would have to acknowledge the overwhelming portion of the metagame is linear aggro of some sort, be it affinity, burn, or infect, or zoo, and gbx midrange
Which brings us to the problem. Most of us have been building control decks BACKWARDS. Starting with one "golden list" that historically, nobody has really done that well with in a CONSISTENT FASHION, and then trying to rationalize the data to fit what we already believe: wafo list is untouchable and is the god-list of all control decks. Whereas even wafo himself would say in order to build a successful control deck, you have to look at the metagame you're supposedly controlling. That's control 101, and everybody here knows that. I'm speaking to myself as much as I'm speaking to any of you.
We can't build control decks like combo decks i.e.: start with a list that we assume is "correct" and then just hope the meta is favorable for us at any given point in the season. We are the police. Historically we are the people who have always said "oh, you willfully played a deck that folds to a single day of judgment? Neat. ". "You're entire strategy is to resolve inferno Titan? Sweet. Have a mana leak"
But anyways, at least we've got our shadow of doubts, right? Lol
TLDR; Not liking the list or not being a fan of the style is one thing, but to say it isn't control would be some pretty heavy mental gymnastics
I really wish I could upvote this multiple times. The relative narrow viewpoint of the Esper thread is part of the reason why I jumped ship a while back to play with straight UW. I've been on tapout control lists for a while and they've proven effective, even during Eldrazi Winter.
I think the question is, where do you want your black splash to come from, if it's necessary at all? Lingering Souls, Dismember, and walkers like Sorin are the ones that come to mind.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
Everybody knows rg tron and Jund aren't control, I think he was just trying to prove some weird theoretical point bc he doesn't like the list. Which is fine, I readily admitted this wasn't the right place to put it, I just thought it was interesting bc I arrived there by tweaking the wafo list here and there over time over hundreds of matches and documenting what worked and what would have been better. I'm not trying to derail, I'm just saying think critically about the meta. Are are you really happy to see those remands against.... Well... ANY of the meta besides maybe grixis control or some weird non existent mirror? Maybe against AV decks , but even then you would have to acknowledge the overwhelming portion of the metagame is linear aggro of some sort, be it affinity, burn, or infect, or zoo, and gbx midrange
Which brings us to the problem. Most of us have been building control decks BACKWARDS. Starting with one "golden list" that historically, nobody has really done that well with in a CONSISTENT FASHION, and then trying to rationalize the data to fit what we already believe: wafo list is untouchable and is the god-list of all control decks. Whereas even wafo himself would say in order to build a successful control deck, you have to look at the metagame you're supposedly controlling. That's control 101, and everybody here knows that. I'm speaking to myself as much as I'm speaking to any of you.
We can't build control decks like combo decks i.e.: start with a list that we assume is "correct" and then just hope the meta is favorable for us at any given point in the season. We are the police. Historically we are the people who have always said "oh, you willfully played a deck that folds to a single day of judgment? Neat. ". "You're entire strategy is to resolve inferno Titan? Sweet. Have a mana leak"
But anyways, at least we've got our shadow of doubts, right? Lol
TLDR; Not liking the list or not being a fan of the style is one thing, but to say it isn't control would be some pretty heavy mental gymnastics
What do you mean I don't like the list? It looks like a port of very successful extended lists which you referenced. It's probably a better deck for Modern as it exists now than the one this forum was modeled after. I'm currently on a 7-game winning streak with UWR Flash. I love the deck,and I think it's better positioned than Esper Draw Go because it can utilize Ancestral. I just don't call every blue deck I play a Control deck, even if the general consensus it that all decks with a late-game focus and at least 12 interactive spells is a Control deck.
You're assuming I have no point and I'm just being childish, but I actually do have one. At this point, I've conceded that people really don't give a damn what it is (on this forum or elsewhere) and if you hadn't been so vehement about it I probably wouldn't have said anything. But, how about one last time for the recordbooks:
I look at Magic from an overall strategic perspective. When I say Strategy, I'm referring to the theory of warfare that outlines a pyramid with Strategy on top, and Tactics and then Logistics beneath. Read it in a book a long time ago...might have been Von Clausevitz. Anyway, the "grand strategy" of the deck in my mind is what defines the grand archetypes.
Aggro decks enforce the mana development chokepoints in Magic and 20-0 the opponent before their strategy is realized. Examples are Sligh and White Weene, but also Burn and UB Mill. Maybe Blitz is a better name than Aggro.
Midrange decks use a suite of interactive spells to neutralize positional advantage, then play powerful permanents and swing the positional advantage in their favor.
Combo decks break the rules of Magic in some way that effectively yields either infinite card advantage or infinite positional advantage and just win the game on the spot.
Control decks also use a suite of interactive spells to neutralize positional advantage, but then scale their interaction to the point where the opponent loses de facto. There's two ways to do this. For starters you can play lock pieces like Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Leyline, or Thopter Sword. All these cards create or neutralize positional advantage to such an extent that entire swaths of your opponent's deck are invalid. Gift's Ungiven can tutor up Iona or Elspeth to turn off an opponent's deck on turn 5. Mystical Teachings favors cards like Extirpate or Teferi -> Crovax, Ascendant Hero to accomplish a similar gamestate. All of these, I call Prison Control decks.
The other way to scale interaction is to draw so many damn cards that you can Doom Blade or Counterspell everything your opponent hopes to do. Examples of that are this would be Wafo's Esper list of course, but also the UR Goggles list in current Standard, or even the awful Season's Past loop deck that Finkel managed to Top 8 the Pro Tour with. Draw-Go is the label assigned to the archetype because blue used to be the only color that could pull it off, but the current Standard is a perfect example of how R&D's hate for the color blue is pushing it into other color combinations. The unifying trait is that they all utilize a crazy card advantage suite to not let the opponent so anything and win de facto. Prison = ridiculous positional advantage, Draw Go = ridiculous card advantage.
That's the way I see it. I'm sure every Platinum Pro subscribes to the more conventional logic, so whatever. The conventional logic as I see it is basically looking at archetypes from a tempo perspective. Aggro is early game, Midrange is midgame, and Control is endgame. That's fine and well, but you can see where mistaken identities turn into deckbuilding errors, when people do things like slot Sphinx's Revelation into a UWR SnapBolt deck that needs to be converting it's ability to neutralize early positional advantage into a turn 5 planeswalker or Kiki + Resto combo. Or when people build draw-go decks and insert a bunch of Mystical Teachings because "they're good in Control", not realizing the card is at it's best when you're tutoring singleton massive positional advantage blowouts.
As I see it, planeswalkers don't qualify as Prison pieces. You see the difference when you play Gideon or Elspeth, and are sometimes still facing lethal the next turn. Someone mentioned Gofy, but planeswalkers in my mind are high-risk, high-reward Goyfs in the same sense that Wraths are high-risk, high-reward Doom Blades. I just 20-0'd two opponents in a row playing UWR with Gideon. The mismatches created by planeswalkers are exaggerated versions of the mismatches created by Goyf v. Wild Nacatl.
See my point? You're under no obligation to agree. By the way, I appreciate you calling attention to those Extended lists; I plan on combing through the lists from that GP. I think R&D has designed Modern to play out similarly to a turbo-powered Standard, and we have to get used to slamming planeswalkers and Dragonlord Ojutais. Hell, there hasn't been a decent blue Control deck in Standard since Revelation (a mistake, from their perspective) rotated. I'm currently grinding with UWR, and I agree that midrange variants are more powerful in Modern. With the current Affinity/Burn/Infect trio taking up a half the top tables, I think UWR is a better option than Esper or UW, if you're going to not run draw-go. If Jund and Junk Company decks push back to the top, I'd be more inclined to try these planeswalker lists that go a bit over the top of them.
It's cool man, I think ultimately we agree. It's really challenging to control "tone of voice" in a format like this.
I do spend a lot of time combing through old extended event lists, but the one I modeled this after was actually standard lol. It was tthat time period where even I decided to sling bloodbraid elves for at least a month bbefore coming to my senses.
The only real difference is the original list used mind sculptors of course. I'm certainly not one to compare architect to JTMS, but he's basically a "fixed" Jace at 4 mana still. His -1/-0 thing is great in this format, lovely with Gideon, and I use his negative 2 all the time and it's usually just spectacular.
Original list ran 4 baneslayer which just feels irresponsible, -4 baneslayer +2 runed halo and a big elspeth and a 4th verdict. Really wanted to double down against those sort of decks
Anyways. Interesting line of thought here, sorry for derailing, I'd like to get back to my initial point for the rest of the readers :"stop doing your control deck building process backwards"
What prompted the Everflowing Chalice? With no countermagic main, you don't need to do stuff like Coup AND hold up countermagic, so you don't NEED crazy amounts of mana. I guess it makes Rev's better? Are you using it more as a way to cast Gideons/Elspeth's earlier?
This list makes me more curious than anything else, tbh
What prompted the Everflowing Chalice? With no countermagic main, you don't need to do stuff like Coup AND hold up countermagic, so you don't NEED crazy amounts of mana. I guess it makes Rev's better? Are you using it more as a way to cast Gideons/Elspeth's earlier?
This list makes me more curious than anything else, tbh
I've been playtesting for a little while, so I can answer that one for you. Chalice lets you play magic! Surprising, I know, but really, the curve in the list is super high. You want to cast those Verdicts, Jaces, Gideons, and multiple D-Spheres in one turn. Chaalice does that, but also powers Rev. I actually want a 3rd in the list.
More feedback on the list -- it's sortof soft to Living End, so I think the Grafdigger's Cages should just be Rest in Peace (since RiP at least makes everything stay exiled when it gets Beast Within'd). RiP also has plenty of merit against AbCo, so that's not really an issue. Also, as I mentioned above, a 3rd Everflowing Chalice feels appropriate. Not a fan of the Martial Coup (it's a 7 mana Wrath or a bad Secure the Wastes, I never actually casted it since it's token mode is just the worst.)
Edit: Maybe a 3rd Chalice makes Coup more playable, idk. Do you think maybe the Chalices should be Azorius Signets? Chalice can tap for more than one mana. =D
Post-Edit: I wonder what a few Cliques in the board might do to the control/combo mathups? I like the 4th Sphere, but I'm not so sure it'll feel that different w/ just the 3 mainboard Spheres.
I'm very curious about this Chalice list and will give it a shot this weekend on XMage. One thing that comes to mind, however, is that putting so much stock in an artifact-based mana-source leaves us vulnerable to all the Affinity hate out there post-sideboard.
Has anyone testing this found this to be an issue?
I'm very curious about this Chalice list and will give it a shot this weekend on XMage. One thing that comes to mind, however, is that putting so much stock in an artifact-based mana-source leaves us vulnerable to all the Affinity hate out there post-sideboard.
Has anyone testing this found this to be an issue?
With only two sources of artifact mana, I think it's fine. People wont bring in Stony against us just for Chalice. It does make Abrupt Decay better, since it can effectively Stone Rain us in addition to sniping Walls/Spheres, but oh well.
I'm wondering if Chalice's scalability is a higher upside than cantripping with Mind Stone.
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
Sorry guys I was asleep and I'm hanging out with my mom for the first part of the day, I'll respond later. Don't go too crazy with speculation until I get back lol
Chalice is legit tho. T3 verdict t4 Gideon, powers up Marshall coup. Chalice for 3 or so makes colonnade a two mana activation. Lots of stuff. Big revs , etc. you don't "rely " on it, it's just there and does its job. I definitely love it. 3 could be fine, I like two personally because idk what I would cut. Possibly a land , go to 25 and 3 chalice. That's on you idk. Thanks guys!
Signet is probably better than Chalice since it allows you to play more Ghost Quarters/Tectonic Edges. You can also easily slot in Crucible as a way to quickly lock out Combo, since planeswalkers take too long. The Ghost Quarters should probably be 4 Tec Edges + 1 Ghost Quarter, so you can double Tec Edge your opponent out of the game the turn after you resolve a planeswalker. Some streamer, I think Paul Cheon, streamed the UW Gifts deck a while back, and about the only good thing the deck did was Crucible lock spell-based decks out the game. That was without a playset of Spreading Seas.
I got a bit carried away when I mentioned dropping Ghost Quarters and picking up Spreading seas + some other utility land.
I know it's not esper, but there's probably nowhere else to post this, and the majority of the deck is the same as the current standard esper shell anyhow, black has just been replaced with green.
Am I just being silly? Is this even worth testing? I don't have the UG lands available, and I don't use XMage or Cockatrice. So I'm just going to have to go on opinions here, unless some brave soul wants to join me in the rabbit hole.
In the manabase GQ is replaced with Alchemist's Refuge to allow us to play fun stuff at instant speed. This was the main motivator for the colour swap.
To cover the lost land hate 4 spreading seas are in the cantrip spots.
No esper charm. to make up for the missing card-draw I've put in 2 Jace, AOT, this is probably not enough.
2 bant charm provides some hybrid permission / removal.
Thragtusk in the side for win condition / aggro matchups
bonus lumbering falls in the manabase, he cant get spot removal'd while he is a creature, seems good.
I don't think THATS the list , but I think you're in the right spot. I'll explore it later when I get back to the testing chamber
Iv'e decided to hop on the test Train and make a Makeshift version of SES's List.
I Tried to keep the Mainboard as close as the original list but with replacement cards for the ones I Don't own.
The sideboard is just thrown together trying to keep the same form as the Original.
No Counter spells was a big if to me but the win rate is showing, sure it has rough Game ones but the next two games always feel good and well.
As a guy that just Loves operating at instant speed, This list TAPS out but for good reason, the Planeswalkers show a huge threat when slammed and especially Baneslayer Angel,which causes most opponents to concede in the matter of turns, is Big Game.
Never get to consistently draw the Everflowing Chalice Comfortably enough, 3 May be better but that's up for debate.
It definitely has potential and probably even more when you play the original SES's list.
Personally, I advocate playing the list I posted, don't play signets over chalices, beacause having a chalice for 3 or 4 is amazing late game.
Later on I'm gonna brew with Green but I personally don't expect it to be any better than UW besides maybe having Thrag-Daddy.
I guess explores are technically better than Everflowing chalice, idk and idc.
Loved reading over all this, special thanks to everyone who's tested for themselves and see's what I'm talking about. I'll check back soon.
In my testing, I've done a lot of "not having anything, but making it appear as if I have mana leak" and them playing around it, which is a huge net benefit to us.
Then game 2, they get "Smart" and assume we have no counters or very few counters, and they slam tezzeret t4 right into a negate.
PS: Isn't it funny how good 4 Jace AOT feels? You can just -2 suicide them all day and keep replaying new ones and get a load of cards, or blank an entire field of inkmoths / thopters / spirits
It may as well be the UW "stuff in testing" thread, a place where people who want a reprint of Counterspell can unite.
Yeah sorry. I guess if we collectively had more success with the deck there would be less derailment, and as someone who's played hundreds of matches with the deck, maybe it's a problem with the list in relation to the metagame.
Brewing Bant control right now. ONLY for glittering wish and 3 thagdaddies or so.
Is anybody going to GP Charlotte? I'll be there rocking either esper or a slightly modified UW list and I'll be running Runed Halo if I can find them for a decent price between now and then which I'm sure I can. Would be sweet to meet up with fellow control players from here and hang out between rounds.
TBF, I think splashing green into tapout control for explore/refuge/swagtusk/nissa voice of zendikar and just play planeswalkers at instant speed is good.
You also dont need to rely on spreading seas to cantrip (and you could play some countermagic if you wanted).
Really though, any reason to play voidslime is a good reason in my book.
Bant is my pet deck I'd love to get some discussion on it with some others. Not sure we should drift too far from Esper in here though. Headed out to FNM soon, but I'd be down to look at the tap out style list that was linked earlier, and potentially look at reasons to move from UW to UWb.
Bant is my pet deck I'd love to get some discussion on it with some others. Not sure we should drift too far from Esper in here though. Headed out to FNM soon, but I'd be down to look at the tap out style list that was linked earlier, and potentially look at reasons to move from UW to UWb.
We actually had a discussion about the merits of Bant vs. Esper few pages back -- I went deep with a Farseeks/Explore list that could slam early Verdicts and Thragtusks. I always just felt like Esper played the draw go game a bit better. That being said, Bant could show some real promise in the SES-Style tap-out department, I think. Explore/Farseek/Search for Tomorrow could be better than Chalice/Spreading Seas/Wall of Omens in SES's UW list, idk. Swagtusk seems to be right up that list's alley.
I view G as a more tapout (read: midrangey) color for control, whereas black lends itself to the draw-go style better.
Bant is my pet deck I'd love to get some discussion on it with some others. Not sure we should drift too far from Esper in here though. Headed out to FNM soon, but I'd be down to look at the tap out style list that was linked earlier, and potentially look at reasons to move from UW to UWb.
We actually had a discussion about the merits of Bant vs. Esper few pages back -- I went deep with a Farseeks/Explore list that could slam early Verdicts and Thragtusks. I always just felt like Esper played the draw go game a bit better. That being said, Bant could show some real promise in the SES-Style tap-out department, I think. Explore/Farseek/Search for Tomorrow could be better than Chalice/Spreading Seas/Wall of Omens in SES's UW list, idk. Swagtusk seems to be right up that list's alley.
I view G as a more tapout (read: midrangey) color for control, whereas black lends itself to the draw-go style better.
Right, but Tapout control isn't midrange, at control. The presence of countermagic doesn't make something control, and the lack of it doesn't revoke someone's control license.
Anyways, here's the board I'm on, I'll try to update throughout.
I really wish I could upvote this multiple times. The relative narrow viewpoint of the Esper thread is part of the reason why I jumped ship a while back to play with straight UW. I've been on tapout control lists for a while and they've proven effective, even during Eldrazi Winter.
I think the question is, where do you want your black splash to come from, if it's necessary at all? Lingering Souls, Dismember, and walkers like Sorin are the ones that come to mind.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
It's cool man, I think ultimately we agree. It's really challenging to control "tone of voice" in a format like this.
I do spend a lot of time combing through old extended event lists, but the one I modeled this after was actually standard lol. It was tthat time period where even I decided to sling bloodbraid elves for at least a month bbefore coming to my senses.
The only real difference is the original list used mind sculptors of course. I'm certainly not one to compare architect to JTMS, but he's basically a "fixed" Jace at 4 mana still. His -1/-0 thing is great in this format, lovely with Gideon, and I use his negative 2 all the time and it's usually just spectacular.
Original list ran 4 baneslayer which just feels irresponsible, -4 baneslayer +2 runed halo and a big elspeth and a 4th verdict. Really wanted to double down against those sort of decks
Anyways. Interesting line of thought here, sorry for derailing, I'd like to get back to my initial point for the rest of the readers :"stop doing your control deck building process backwards"
What prompted the Everflowing Chalice? With no countermagic main, you don't need to do stuff like Coup AND hold up countermagic, so you don't NEED crazy amounts of mana. I guess it makes Rev's better? Are you using it more as a way to cast Gideons/Elspeth's earlier?
This list makes me more curious than anything else, tbh
Currently trying to discover the quickest way to get the opponent from 20 to 0.
I've been playtesting for a little while, so I can answer that one for you. Chalice lets you play magic! Surprising, I know, but really, the curve in the list is super high. You want to cast those Verdicts, Jaces, Gideons, and multiple D-Spheres in one turn. Chaalice does that, but also powers Rev. I actually want a 3rd in the list.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
More feedback on the list -- it's sortof soft to Living End, so I think the Grafdigger's Cages should just be Rest in Peace (since RiP at least makes everything stay exiled when it gets Beast Within'd). RiP also has plenty of merit against AbCo, so that's not really an issue. Also, as I mentioned above, a 3rd Everflowing Chalice feels appropriate. Not a fan of the Martial Coup (it's a 7 mana Wrath or a bad Secure the Wastes, I never actually casted it since it's token mode is just the worst.)
Edit: Maybe a 3rd Chalice makes Coup more playable, idk.
Do you think maybe the Chalices should be Azorius Signets?Chalice can tap for more than one mana. =DPost-Edit: I wonder what a few Cliques in the board might do to the control/combo mathups? I like the 4th Sphere, but I'm not so sure it'll feel that different w/ just the 3 mainboard Spheres.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Has anyone testing this found this to be an issue?
With only two sources of artifact mana, I think it's fine. People wont bring in Stony against us just for Chalice. It does make Abrupt Decay better, since it can effectively Stone Rain us in addition to sniping Walls/Spheres, but oh well.
I'm wondering if Chalice's scalability is a higher upside than cantripping with Mind Stone.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Chalice is legit tho. T3 verdict t4 Gideon, powers up Marshall coup. Chalice for 3 or so makes colonnade a two mana activation. Lots of stuff. Big revs , etc. you don't "rely " on it, it's just there and does its job. I definitely love it. 3 could be fine, I like two personally because idk what I would cut. Possibly a land , go to 25 and 3 chalice. That's on you idk. Thanks guys!
I don't think THATS the list , but I think you're in the right spot. I'll explore it later when I get back to the testing chamber
I Tried to keep the Mainboard as close as the original list but with replacement cards for the ones I Don't own.
The sideboard is just thrown together trying to keep the same form as the Original.
No Counter spells was a big if to me but the win rate is showing, sure it has rough Game ones but the next two games always feel good and well.
As a guy that just Loves operating at instant speed, This list TAPS out but for good reason, the Planeswalkers show a huge threat when slammed and especially Baneslayer Angel,which causes most opponents to concede in the matter of turns, is Big Game.
Never get to consistently draw the Everflowing Chalice Comfortably enough, 3 May be better but that's up for debate.
It definitely has potential and probably even more when you play the original SES's list.
Testing shall Continue.
Twitch Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/qtwelve
Personally, I advocate playing the list I posted, don't play signets over chalices, beacause having a chalice for 3 or 4 is amazing late game.
Later on I'm gonna brew with Green but I personally don't expect it to be any better than UW besides maybe having Thrag-Daddy.
I guess explores are technically better than Everflowing chalice, idk and idc.
Loved reading over all this, special thanks to everyone who's tested for themselves and see's what I'm talking about. I'll check back soon.
In my testing, I've done a lot of "not having anything, but making it appear as if I have mana leak" and them playing around it, which is a huge net benefit to us.
Then game 2, they get "Smart" and assume we have no counters or very few counters, and they slam tezzeret t4 right into a negate.
PS: Isn't it funny how good 4 Jace AOT feels? You can just -2 suicide them all day and keep replaying new ones and get a load of cards, or blank an entire field of inkmoths / thopters / spirits
It may as well be the UW "stuff in testing" thread, a place where people who want a reprint of Counterspell can unite.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Yeah sorry. I guess if we collectively had more success with the deck there would be less derailment, and as someone who's played hundreds of matches with the deck, maybe it's a problem with the list in relation to the metagame.
Brewing Bant control right now. ONLY for glittering wish and 3 thagdaddies or so.
I'll be there. Actually just registered today.
You also dont need to rely on spreading seas to cantrip (and you could play some countermagic if you wanted).
Really though, any reason to play voidslime is a good reason in my book.
About to start Fnm with the chalice list I posted
We actually had a discussion about the merits of Bant vs. Esper few pages back -- I went deep with a Farseeks/Explore list that could slam early Verdicts and Thragtusks. I always just felt like Esper played the draw go game a bit better. That being said, Bant could show some real promise in the SES-Style tap-out department, I think. Explore/Farseek/Search for Tomorrow could be better than Chalice/Spreading Seas/Wall of Omens in SES's UW list, idk. Swagtusk seems to be right up that list's alley.
I view G as a more tapout (read: midrangey) color for control, whereas black lends itself to the draw-go style better.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Right, but Tapout control isn't midrange, at control. The presence of countermagic doesn't make something control, and the lack of it doesn't revoke someone's control license.
Anyways, here's the board I'm on, I'll try to update throughout.
2x Dispel
4x Negate
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Rest in Peace
1x Runed Halo
1x Pithing Needle
1x Detention Sphere