idk. I feel like if I were playing tap-out similar to your list, Sphinx of jwar isle would be OK, but I'd probably be playing grave titan--lacks the evasion and hexproof, makes up for it with an even better clock and insane value that synergizes with all the planeswalker abilities.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Here is the deal, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is being very hot in Standard right now and I happen to have a playset of that card so my question is, will Jace ever be a piece of Esper Control in Modern? I personally don't think so since Snapcaster Mage does the job a lot faster than Jace because the late has to flip to actually be relevant. I need to hear your thoughts about this because I'm about 2 feet away from selling Jaces and start getting the missing pieces of Modern Esper in order to complete it so let me know what you think.
idk. I feel like if I were playing tap-out similar to your list, Sphinx of jwar isle would be OK, but I'd probably be playing grave titan--lacks the evasion and hexproof, makes up for it with an even better clock and insane value that synergizes with all the planeswalker abilities.
Good point. I'll probably put him in there, unless I finally finish brewing 4cc Tapout.
Does Ajani Vengeant seem good in this meta right now? For some reason I keep getting drawn to him. Ordering my foil vivid lands as we speak.
Here is the deal, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is being very hot in Standard right now and I happen to have a playset of that card so my question is, will Jace ever be a piece of Esper Control in Modern? I personally don't think so since Snapcaster Mage does the job a lot faster than Jace because the late has to flip to actually be relevant. I need to hear your thoughts about this because I'm about 2 feet away from selling Jaces and start getting the missing pieces of Modern Esper in order to complete it so let me know what you think.
Jace is useless for us IMO. Most lists only run 2, maybe 3 Snapcaster Mages. Aside from the board wipes and some sideboard cards (or Halos/Gideons that some people are running) the entirety of our deck is instant speed and we want to be casting spells on the opponents turn, Jace doesn't allow for this. He's also vulnerable to removal, and since we generally blank removal from the opponent we don't want to be turning it on. Sure, Snapcaster Mages turn it on but we're not playing them for the creature (although it can be incidentally valuable as a blocker or a clock).
I don't think Ashiok does a whole lot for us, but it's worth a test...I think it'd only really be viable as a sideboard card vs control maybe, and there I'd probably rather have Nephalia Drownyard.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
Jace is stronger in the deck than Snapcaster, but Snapcaster isn't soft to dead removal and actually can clock a combo deck.
As far as mana efficiency goes, Jace is a monster, though. Not only do you get 2 activations over 3 turns, you don't have to pay the 1U kicker like with Snapcaster. That's an extra 2 cards when you want to flash back Revelation.
Jace is stronger in the deck than Snapcaster, but Snapcaster isn't soft to dead removal and actually can clock a combo deck.
As far as mana efficiency goes, Jace is a monster, though. Not only do you get 2 activations over 3 turns, you don't have to pay the 1U kicker like with Snapcaster. That's an extra 2 cards when you want to flash back Revelation.
I'm not casting Rev on my own turn though, unless I'm in dire straits.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I'm not casting Rev on my own turn though, unless I'm in dire straits.
Sometimes I wonder about how people sequence and make decisions with this deck.
Against the majority of decks in the format, by the time you can cast Revelation for 3 or more, your opponent either has no recourse, or you're just looking for removal spells to deal with their board. With the exception of blue and combo decks you normally are better off playing Revelation than holding up Cryptic so you can 2-for-1 a random card off the top. If you're going to miss the land drop for that turn, playing it sorcery speed is even the right play in many circumstances. In these circumstances, being able to draw the two extra cards would make casting it sorcery speed with Jace much better than playing it instant-speed with Snapcaster. This isn't a 1999 Cuneo Blue deck with 22 counterspells; we only have 6 actual counters and can deal with most things after they resolve.
Not to say that Jace is better. I thought I would playtest with it, but I doubt it's worth trying.
I'm not casting Rev on my own turn though, unless I'm in dire straits.
Sometimes I wonder about how people sequence and make decisions with this deck.
Against the majority of decks in the format, by the time you can cast Revelation for 3 or more, your opponent either has no recourse, or you're just looking for removal spells to deal with their board. With the exception of blue and combo decks you normally are better off playing Revelation than holding up Cryptic so you can 2-for-1 a random card off the top. If you're going to miss the land drop for that turn, playing it sorcery speed is even the right play in many circumstances. In these circumstances, being able to draw the two extra cards would make casting it sorcery speed with Jace much better than playing it instant-speed with Snapcaster. This isn't a 1999 Cuneo Blue deck with 22 counterspells; we only have 6 actual counters and can deal with most things after they resolve.
Not to say that Jace is better. I thought I would playtest with it, but I doubt it's worth trying.
casting during the opponent's turn gives you another untap before discarding to hand size which might be better than 2 cards.
If you're going to miss the land drop for that turn, playing it sorcery speed is even the right play in many circumstances.
I consider missing a land drop to be dire straits. But at that point I'm still better off casting it at the end of the opponents turn, unless they're tapped out and I'm expecting a counterspell or a skullcrack etc, then I window it on my turn if tapping out isn't going to be worse. Obviously sequencing is dependent completely on the game state but as often as possible I want to cast it at their end of turn.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I consider missing a land drop to be dire straits. But at that point I'm still better off casting it at the end of the opponents turn, unless they're tapped out and I'm expecting a counterspell or a skullcrack etc, then I window it on my turn if tapping out isn't going to be worse. Obviously sequencing is dependent completely on the game state but as often as possible I want to cast it at their end of turn.
It's not even about specific scenarios; I'm saying the fundamental logic is flawed. If anything, draw spells are more effective on your turn, due to lands and (sometimes) sorceries. End-of-turn-itis is a real disease that takes the lives of many Control players every tournament.
Watch LSV stream and you'll see the guy literally break down every possible sequence of plays that can happen if he taps out. Cuneo's another that will goldfish his opponent with draw spells, almost disrespectfully. My point is that against creature decks it doesn't take much to make tapping-out worth it. If untap with Revelation and Path in hand and your opponent has no board, are you going to wait for their end step to Path their play? What could they play that wouldn't result in you just casting the Revelation for the full amount and then untapping and casting Path? Maybe you draw a spell that lets you ignore their play and hold it off with Colonnade, or something. If there's basically any advantage to be gleaned from casting it sorcery speed, you should just go for it. You know they don't play Thundermaw. Same applies to Esper Charm, except you're even more likely to want to cast it sorcery speed. Maybe you have a basic in hand, but if you Charm into a Colonnade, you can play that that turn and be able to activate it a turn sooner. If your opponent doesn't have draws you can't answer, or counterspells, sorcery-speed is often just better.
I'm a newbie to the deck (playing a pure draw-go list with 2 gideon jura in the flex spots), but I happen to cast esper charm in very different moments, depending on various factors like: cards in my hand, cards in opponent's hand, board status, am I lookin for an out?, do I know what my opponent holds in his hands? if yes, do they represent a threat for which I do not have any other answers avaiable now/next turn?, do I have other draw spells avaiable or do I have a good chance to see one in the short term? Am I going through combat step and I fear my opponent to have removal avaiable? Do I want to reduce my opponent's game possibilities? In addition, when I play against burn or affinity I mind rot them whenever I can. This leads me to play esper charm (with empty stack) during opponent's upkeep, draw step, eot, or at sorcery speed. With other spells on the stack, I cast it every time I see I could get a huge advantage from it (on combat steps/main phases/upkeeps/eot/...).
I actually find cryptic command to be really hard to be played correctly. I mean, most of the times we have stabilized the board it is "just" counter+draw, but other than that it always challenges me to find the correct way to maximize it. But I'm sure it will gat easier and easier the more I get experienced with the deck.
Is there anything wrong in what I just wrote? If yes please tell me, I really want to improve my skills with this archetype!
PS: MB gideons have actually lead me to win lots of games against very different archetypes. It helps stabilizing, controlling the board, buying time, closing up games. Really loving him MB!
I don't have enough time to write an Esper Charm miniguide, but you seem to be considering the full range of options. I would note that you don't normally care about Affinity's hand, unless you're about to cast turn 4 wrath on the play and they have 2 cards left in hand that could be Champions or Platings, etc. Casting Esper Charm before Wrath is just great in general, when you don't need to keep drawing.
MB Gideon over WSZ is pretty rational, for the reasons I stated in the previous post. Instant v. Sorcery is really a mana consideration, and when you have cards that you effectively can't cast till way late into the game, it doesn't really matter if they're instants if the tradeoff is costing so much more mana. I've never tried swapping the two, but if I did I would worry about how much worse Gideon is against Tron and other such decks where you can't tap out. Against Aggro, I'm pretty sure Gideon is just a far stronger win condition. Practically Moat.
If you're going to miss the land drop for that turn, playing it sorcery speed is even the right play in many circumstances.
I consider missing a land drop to be dire straits. But at that point I'm still better off casting it at the end of the opponents turn, unless they're tapped out and I'm expecting a counterspell or a skullcrack etc, then I window it on my turn if tapping out isn't going to be worse. Obviously sequencing is dependent completely on the game state but as often as possible I want to cast it at their end of turn.
That is not always true though. I cast rev the majority of times afainst blue decks at sorcery speed after picking s fight eot. It is also accrptsble to tap out against nonburn creature decks and control early game to make land drops.
I consider missing a land drop to be dire straits. But at that point I'm still better off casting it at the end of the opponents turn, unless they're tapped out and I'm expecting a counterspell or a skullcrack etc, then I window it on my turn if tapping out isn't going to be worse. Obviously sequencing is dependent completely on the game state but as often as possible I want to cast it at their end of turn.
It's not even about specific scenarios; I'm saying the fundamental logic is flawed. If anything, draw spells are more effective on your turn, due to lands and (sometimes) sorceries. End-of-turn-itis is a real disease that takes the lives of many Control players every tournament.
Watch LSV stream and you'll see the guy literally break down every possible sequence of plays that can happen if he taps out. Cuneo's another that will goldfish his opponent with draw spells, almost disrespectfully. My point is that against creature decks it doesn't take much to make tapping-out worth it. If untap with Revelation and Path in hand and your opponent has no board, are you going to wait for their end step to Path their play? What could they play that wouldn't result in you just casting the Revelation for the full amount and then untapping and casting Path? Maybe you draw a spell that lets you ignore their play and hold it off with Colonnade, or something. If there's basically any advantage to be gleaned from casting it sorcery speed, you should just go for it. You know they don't play Thundermaw. Same applies to Esper Charm, except you're even more likely to want to cast it sorcery speed. Maybe you have a basic in hand, but if you Charm into a Colonnade, you can play that that turn and be able to activate it a turn sooner. If your opponent doesn't have draws you can't answer, or counterspells, sorcery-speed is often just better.
That is more true when the draw spelss are cheaper and you run less counters. Like how newbies make the mistake of casting brainstorm eot when having that extra drop step of information is more important but esper charm actually restricts your mana enough to make counter plays that it makes it better to play it eot when you are sure you are not using your mana in another way.
This is what I mean when I say you cast it sorcery speed a lot of the time:
[see attachment]
No need to hold up Logic Knot. I'm glad the guy made the right call.
EDIT: Yeah...kindly ignore the fact that he's dead on board and needs to draw Path. The situation is he just untapped and plays Esper Charm before even playing his land for the turn.
So many thoughtseize effects make sure he resolves, and so many tokens running around ensure he doesn't just get liliana'd
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Also, can Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver be wothwhile in Modern Esper?
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
GUSimic MerfolkUG
WUUW ControlUW
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
BUUB MillUB
Colorless Eldrazi Tron
WRBurnRW
GUSimic MerfolkUG
UMono U TurnsU
WGGenesis Wave EnchantressGW
Good point. I'll probably put him in there, unless I finally finish brewing 4cc Tapout.
Does Ajani Vengeant seem good in this meta right now? For some reason I keep getting drawn to him. Ordering my foil vivid lands as we speak.
Jace is useless for us IMO. Most lists only run 2, maybe 3 Snapcaster Mages. Aside from the board wipes and some sideboard cards (or Halos/Gideons that some people are running) the entirety of our deck is instant speed and we want to be casting spells on the opponents turn, Jace doesn't allow for this. He's also vulnerable to removal, and since we generally blank removal from the opponent we don't want to be turning it on. Sure, Snapcaster Mages turn it on but we're not playing them for the creature (although it can be incidentally valuable as a blocker or a clock).
I don't think Ashiok does a whole lot for us, but it's worth a test...I think it'd only really be viable as a sideboard card vs control maybe, and there I'd probably rather have Nephalia Drownyard.
As far as mana efficiency goes, Jace is a monster, though. Not only do you get 2 activations over 3 turns, you don't have to pay the 1U kicker like with Snapcaster. That's an extra 2 cards when you want to flash back Revelation.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
I'm not casting Rev on my own turn though, unless I'm in dire straits.
Sometimes I wonder about how people sequence and make decisions with this deck.
Against the majority of decks in the format, by the time you can cast Revelation for 3 or more, your opponent either has no recourse, or you're just looking for removal spells to deal with their board. With the exception of blue and combo decks you normally are better off playing Revelation than holding up Cryptic so you can 2-for-1 a random card off the top. If you're going to miss the land drop for that turn, playing it sorcery speed is even the right play in many circumstances. In these circumstances, being able to draw the two extra cards would make casting it sorcery speed with Jace much better than playing it instant-speed with Snapcaster. This isn't a 1999 Cuneo Blue deck with 22 counterspells; we only have 6 actual counters and can deal with most things after they resolve.
Not to say that Jace is better. I thought I would playtest with it, but I doubt it's worth trying.
casting during the opponent's turn gives you another untap before discarding to hand size which might be better than 2 cards.
I consider missing a land drop to be dire straits. But at that point I'm still better off casting it at the end of the opponents turn, unless they're tapped out and I'm expecting a counterspell or a skullcrack etc, then I window it on my turn if tapping out isn't going to be worse. Obviously sequencing is dependent completely on the game state but as often as possible I want to cast it at their end of turn.
Yeah, when it's late game and you're drawing so many cards that you'll end up discarding...you can crush your opponent even harder by casting it EoT.
It's not even about specific scenarios; I'm saying the fundamental logic is flawed. If anything, draw spells are more effective on your turn, due to lands and (sometimes) sorceries. End-of-turn-itis is a real disease that takes the lives of many Control players every tournament.
Watch LSV stream and you'll see the guy literally break down every possible sequence of plays that can happen if he taps out. Cuneo's another that will goldfish his opponent with draw spells, almost disrespectfully. My point is that against creature decks it doesn't take much to make tapping-out worth it. If untap with Revelation and Path in hand and your opponent has no board, are you going to wait for their end step to Path their play? What could they play that wouldn't result in you just casting the Revelation for the full amount and then untapping and casting Path? Maybe you draw a spell that lets you ignore their play and hold it off with Colonnade, or something. If there's basically any advantage to be gleaned from casting it sorcery speed, you should just go for it. You know they don't play Thundermaw. Same applies to Esper Charm, except you're even more likely to want to cast it sorcery speed. Maybe you have a basic in hand, but if you Charm into a Colonnade, you can play that that turn and be able to activate it a turn sooner. If your opponent doesn't have draws you can't answer, or counterspells, sorcery-speed is often just better.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Lol, this is true. This is true.
I don't have enough time to write an Esper Charm miniguide, but you seem to be considering the full range of options. I would note that you don't normally care about Affinity's hand, unless you're about to cast turn 4 wrath on the play and they have 2 cards left in hand that could be Champions or Platings, etc. Casting Esper Charm before Wrath is just great in general, when you don't need to keep drawing.
MB Gideon over WSZ is pretty rational, for the reasons I stated in the previous post. Instant v. Sorcery is really a mana consideration, and when you have cards that you effectively can't cast till way late into the game, it doesn't really matter if they're instants if the tradeoff is costing so much more mana. I've never tried swapping the two, but if I did I would worry about how much worse Gideon is against Tron and other such decks where you can't tap out. Against Aggro, I'm pretty sure Gideon is just a far stronger win condition. Practically Moat.
That is not always true though. I cast rev the majority of times afainst blue decks at sorcery speed after picking s fight eot. It is also accrptsble to tap out against nonburn creature decks and control early game to make land drops.
That is more true when the draw spelss are cheaper and you run less counters. Like how newbies make the mistake of casting brainstorm eot when having that extra drop step of information is more important but esper charm actually restricts your mana enough to make counter plays that it makes it better to play it eot when you are sure you are not using your mana in another way.
[see attachment]
No need to hold up Logic Knot. I'm glad the guy made the right call.
EDIT: Yeah...kindly ignore the fact that he's dead on board and needs to draw Path. The situation is he just untapped and plays Esper Charm before even playing his land for the turn.