If you want cumulative percentage, here's that for all 4 categories, 52% chance that they're 10 or less by the end of T3 and about a 50% chance of 5 or more power on the board by the end of T2. Both are kind of "50% chance the opponent is about to get rekt or has been rekt already".
I still have all the game replays so I could look at T4, but it's too many games to go back and look at and I think the most interesting/crucial turns are T2 and T3. I'll keep stats like this for a while. I also have W/L separated by deck, but there were only a few decks that I played against more than once so there's not much interesting there. That stuff is more interesting for my Burn deck, since I have 2323 games worth.
Holy cat, this kind of data is amazing. Thanks a lot for sharing it, elconquistador.
I'll be playing your list next week (after I get a run with Landfall this week).
Holy cat, this kind of data is amazing. Thanks a lot for sharing it, elconquistador.
I'll be playing your list next week (after I get a run with Landfall this week).
No problem. Give Spooly credit for the list, though.
The manabase isn't something I've thought hard about before now, but adding another fetch or two is probably good. Though he did it in the weirdest way IMO. I would have cut a Stomping Ground for a fetch because Temple Garden / Sacred Foundry + Basic gives you both colors of mana for a minimal amount of damage against stuff like burn. He's trying the manamorphose thing which is more degenerate for sure. Not sure if it's better though.
I can see going up to 13 fetches with 5 lands (1 of each shock and Mountain + Forest), but 14 seems too greedy to me. If you go to 14 fetches, IMO you should still have 1 of each shock and the basic Forest.
Manamorphose is good with Bushwhacker and can help Surging him (with or without HH) and the card draw could be useful. But just testing out to get some real perspective on the changes.
Beginning 100 games with Manamorphose... Unfortunately, I don't actually own those, so I can't play it in paper, but I can test it online.
I also agree that 13 and 5 seems ok. I'll add a Bloodstained Mire.
Edit: So my first experience with the Manamorphose was when I had two of them, 1 HH, and 1 BTE. I tried to use them to draw into something but only drew into another BTE. Ended up losing that game, though.
That sums up my experience testing manamorphose. Adds a lot more inconsistency. But I was going way deeper than Overturf. Maybe just 2 is ok.
Played my first weekly, finishing 3-2. Beat Abzan midrange, GR Tron, and GR Ponza, lost to Breach Titan and Kiki Chord. I had 2 turn 3 kills in 13 games. I mulled all 3 games vs Ponza, but it didn't matter. I kept 1 landers with a couple one drops and a couple HH/BTE twice vs Abzan and found the land on turns 2 and 3 respectively. I did the same vs Breach Titan but never found the second land. G3 vs Kiki Chord I mulled to 5 and kept a 1 lander with a BTE and all one drops, but never saw the 3rd land.
Learning which hands to keep and which to mulligan is definitely going to be key with this deck, but I think a hand with, e.g., Fetch, Kird Ape, Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl, BTE, HH, Bolt is got to be a keep. We're at slightly better than 50% to hit the second land in one of the next two draw steps, and if we do it's disgusting. And in the mean time, we can still cast some creatures.
For what its worth (please dont take this offensively, I do not mean it that way) but cockatrice is really terrible to use for hard data. Ita great to use to get a feel of a deck, but most people use it to learn decks, not grind.
So because of this, youll find most players arent compident with the deck and will make bad plays. My win rate on cockatrice currently with dredge is around 80% and in paper or mtgo is 55%. When nothing is on the line, and players arent usuing "their" deck, games tend to be 1 sided. Its one of the reasons most players put more stock into mtgo results or pro gauntlets.
Channel fireball had about 2 years they were terrible at modern. Later they said it was because they tried to play the best deck and gauntleted each other blind. They said this was a mistake, they needed to play against infect with a real infect player to make good data.
Ill never look down data (and seriously thats a lot of work, so thank you) but I just wanted to point out that win % can be way way off on cockatrice. As a rule of thumb, I take off 10-20% depending on my expertice with the deck or style of deck.
For what its worth (please dont take this offensively, I do not mean it that way) but cockatrice is really terrible to use for hard data. Ita great to use to get a feel of a deck, but most people use it to learn decks, not grind.
So because of this, youll find most players arent compident with the deck and will make bad plays. My win rate on cockatrice currently with dredge is around 80% and in paper or mtgo is 55%. When nothing is on the line, and players arent usuing "their" deck, games tend to be 1 sided. Its one of the reasons most players put more stock into mtgo results or pro gauntlets.
Channel fireball had about 2 years they were terrible at modern. Later they said it was because they tried to play the best deck and gauntleted each other blind. They said this was a mistake, they needed to play against infect with a real infect player to make good data.
Ill never look down data (and seriously thats a lot of work, so thank you) but I just wanted to point out that win % can be way way off on cockatrice. As a rule of thumb, I take off 10-20% depending on my expertice with the deck or style of deck.
I'm aware that cockatrice is loaded with people who aren't very good at the deck they're playing, but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying. I've run into one ho said "you aren't allowed to play more than one creature per turn, that's how tournaments are" after I had 8 power on board in turn 2, but most aren't that bad. There's also the people who open a room saying "Tier 1/Competitive/Tiers" or something similar and then play jank themselves.
That means the win rate is certainly suspect, but it doesn't really impact the resulting histograms of power and life totals. A bad opponent is still going to Bolt Nacatl when they can. In a sense, those histograms are a measure of the probability that an opponent can and does deal with creatures in some way before they get punched in the face too many times by those creatures. Excluding bad opening hand choices, this is kind of invariant between good and bad players. There is also a Magic League on cockatrice, where I expect the players to be more competent on average.
Power cast is a function of thoughtseize/IoK and hands I kept. Power on board is a function of those two plus removal.
I'd test on MTGO, but MTGO doesn't run on Linux and I have no interest in buying pictures of cards on the internet anyway. Data is certainly better than no data, and it would certainly take more than 5 days to get 100 games of paper data.
That sums up my experience testing manamorphose. Adds a lot more inconsistency. But I was going way deeper than Overturf. Maybe just 2 is ok.
Played my first weekly, finishing 3-2. Beat Abzan midrange, GR Tron, and GR Ponza, lost to Breach Titan and Kiki Chord. I had 2 turn 3 kills in 13 games. I mulled all 3 games vs Ponza, but it didn't matter. I kept 1 landers with a couple one drops and a couple HH/BTE twice vs Abzan and found the land on turns 2 and 3 respectively. I did the same vs Breach Titan but never found the second land. G3 vs Kiki Chord I mulled to 5 and kept a 1 lander with a BTE and all one drops, but never saw the 3rd land.
Learning which hands to keep and which to mulligan is definitely going to be key with this deck, but I think a hand with, e.g., Fetch, Kird Ape, Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl, BTE, HH, Bolt is got to be a keep. We're at slightly better than 50% to hit the second land in one of the next two draw steps, and if we do it's disgusting. And in the mean time, we can still cast some creatures.
My impression of Manamorphose so far isn't that great compared to Mutagenic Growth. MG let me keep a creature alive after T1 Bolts if I needed to. Maybe I'm playing manamorphose wrong, but it seems like having it in hand tempts me into casting it in hopes to dig into something. I suppose at worst it replaces itself and lets you cast 2 1 drops.
"Fetch, Kird Ape, Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl, BTE, HH, Bolt is got to be a keep." Those are kinds of 1-landers I've been keeping. As long as you can get to Stomping Ground, you can ride it for a few turns before you're up a creek without a paddle.
Fun fact, after 2 days of testing and goldfishing I came up with the same list as elconquistador1985 just a few hours before Ryan's article on Modernnexus.
The thing that I'm not sure of yet is sideboard. Before I've played typical white sideboard cards like Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, Path to Exile,Phyrexian Unlinfe. Now I wonder if white is the color to go in sideboard, because you can play a lot of stuff for your free mana from Herbalists and BTEs. Looks like sideboard of Destructive Revelry, Grafdigger's Cage, Ancient Grudge and even Dragon's Claw might be better. Basically the idea is to keep white just for sideboard Path to Exile and Wild Nacatl and switch the rest to possibly make use of the free mana we can generate.
Your point about being able to play SB cards off free mana is a good one, and is the reason why I'm on Cage instead of Rest in Peace. But some of the white cards might be good enough. Here are some scattered mostly SB thoughts:
More on Cage: dredge is on the downswing, but I think it's still good and likely still played, and CoCo is on the upswing, so these slots feel justified. CoCo/Chord decks are kind of rough, but Cage puts it in easy mode.
For a short bit I thought I wanted Stony Silence, but once I realized I didn't even want it vs. Tron I changed my mind. Vs. Lantern I think we just want to be fast and have a piece of removal for bridge. Affinity is the only deck where I'm sure I want stony, and I don't think that's enough to justify it. The two pieces of removal I have are Tin-Street Hooligan, which is great with the free mana, Atarka's Command, and Bushwhacker, but also sort of concedes against nonsense like Worship. I really want to not care about enchantments, but having access to Revelry might be worth it.
I'm not sure Path is better than Ghor-Clan, which you can see based on my SB. We want a couple paths because of stuff like Finks and Wurmcoil and to have access to more removal in fast aggro mirrors, but Ghor-Clan is so much less likely to be dead if, e.g., they don't draw their blocker. Plus the synergy with Narnam Renegade is sweet. More than once I've had opponents forced into trading a large Ooze or Goyf with a Renegade.
That said, I kind of want 1-2 Ghor-Clan MD while still keeping 2 Mutas to trigger the Bushwhackers. Sometimes you have trouble punching through blockers when going wide isn't a strong option, and this would help a lot. I don't really want to shave a creature and shaving a bolt or a command is off the table. Probably shaving an Experiment One is Ok. Shaving one Muta might be ok too, but I start to get nervous with 4 Bushwhackers. Alternatively, we can revert to my original list with -2 Muta, -1 Bushwhacker, +2 Ghor-Clan, +1 Path/something else.
I'm not sure what the best plan is against Burn yet, but in these decks I've tended to lean toward 1) not having too many dedicated anti-burn cards, and instead packing stuff that comes in elsewhere, 2) not having too much of a strain on white mana, 3) not having too many cards that die to Revelry so them SBing it in is bad, and 4) not having too many cards that don't impact the board. Phyrexian Unlife requires white and doesn't impact the board, but gain 10 is incredible against them, so I tend to think it's worth it. The other two slots are currently Helix, which only strain white mana, but they're also not super high impact. On the other hand, just having more removal against Burn is also good, so maybe that's ok. I've considered Unflinching Courage as well, but they're already probably bringing Path in against us, it's hard to justify that many 3 mana spells in the burn matchup, and they're also not broadly useful. With all the free mana, Dragon's Claw is more interesting now like you say, and I don't think many burn players are expecting it right now either so they won't automatically have their revelrys in. T2 BTE/HH into Claw is fairly strong, but on the other hand, BTE/HH into two one drops is already really strong against them, and Claw still doesn't catch you up. Nothing really blows me away here, but at the moment I'm still leaning toward Unlife + 2 Helix in those slots. Just optimize your nut draws against them since they can't beat those, use removal/Helix to slow them down, and hope to draw Unlife to win the tough games.
Domri is for GBx and blue based control matchups. Those games tend to go long, so the 3 CMC is more justified. I'm not super sold on the second one over something like a Choke, but unfortunately there's no similar hate card for the GBx decks. We might bring Domri in vs. CoCo/Chord decks too, but I'm not sure.
Gut Shot is for Infect and decks with mana dorks, notably Eldrazi. We just want to be faster than Eldrazi, and killing their bird is exactly what you want to do. This feels like the weakest card in my SB, and we don't really need the help vs. Infect since Path is already pretty good there, but right now I'm leaving it in just because of what it does vs. Bant Eldrazi. Slowing them down is the best thing for us to be doing, and we can't reasonably play any of the available land destruction.
Keep in mind when SBing, by the way, that if you side out Mutagenic Growth and don't bring in Gut Shot, it's probably correct to cut a Bushwhacker. They can be clunky in multiples, especially when you can't find a way to trigger them.
against a goyf for example, atarka deals more damage now but then on your next turn you do less damage since the goyf is still there and you lost a creature. with rampager you still do extra damage the turn you cast it, although less than atarka but you do more damage next turn since the goyf is gone and you didnt lost a creature
i made the example with goyf, but the same applies against a lot of creatures
i would play 4 bolts, 4 rampagers and 2 atarka since we are already playing bushwhackers and 6 go wide pumpers (10 total) its enough to close games
against a goyf for example, atarka deals more damage now but then on your next turn you do less damage since the goyf is still there and you lost a creature. with rampager you still do extra damage the turn you cast it, although less than atarka but you do more damage next turn since the goyf is gone and you didnt lost a creature
i made the example with goyf, but the same applies against a lot of creatures
i would play 4 bolts, 4 rampagers and 2 atarka since we are already playing bushwhackers and 6 go wide pumpers (10 total) its enough to close games
Atarka's Command is the best card in the deck. There's no way we're cutting it. Cutting Bushwhackers first is most certainly correct.
4 Rampagers is definitely too many because they can be clunky to draw in multiples. I cut them originally to try the most extreme version of the deck possible (short of running manamorphose).
I've been playing a similar styled deck for a year before 8BTE ever came along.
So, listen up. lol
Both reckless and goblin bushwhacker should be in this deck chaining into 8BTEs. The issue will be ensuring your mana color ratios are on point, but that just takes time. Also, decks that sport high creatures, low support, and low mana typically cap out around 16 two costing cards (8Whack + 8BTEs = 16 two costing cards). What that means is that attarka's command as good as it is needs to go. Why? Whacker's chain into BTEs for explosive wins - not atarka's. Lastly, with decks like this spot removal isn't needed in the first game at least. What?! Did you just tell me Bolt is not needed?! Yes. Game one, you go fast, go wide, and hit hard in +1 damage buffs to all creatures. Do I expect anyone to try out what I suggested?...No. lol Because, for most, Atarka's and Bolt are too big of draw to be excluded in a more competitive build. In the end, I think small zoo now has a place at a T1 or T2 level with recent card releases, so I'm sure I'll be hearing about a few of you hitting the top 8 brackets.
Oh, and as for you brewers out there. Try out naya colors to make the most out of wild nacatl and have access to loam lion. Also, devastating summons is also a great card to chain into if you mana is set at 19.
I don't agree with your assessment of Goblin Bushwhacker, which doesn't chain from either BTE or HH because it costs RR. It only chains from BTE if you're on 3 lands. Atarka's Command is much better and it actually can be cast off of BTE with 2 lands or HH with 3.
With the HH-BTE build, a broken T2 can lead into Atarka's Command for a boatload on T3 even off of 2 lands. Goblin is too hard to chain into, and a T3 Atarka's Command is more damage anyway.
i can see cutting bolt or atarka since that improves the number of explosive hands
if you want to max the mana on the 8 BTEs you can even play sunblade elf since we usualy play nacatl/experiment turn 1 and end up not using the green mana, also the 8 BTEs add 12 green and 4 red so you need way more green 1 mana cards than red ones
but i dont see RR bushwkacker being better than atarka
i can see cutting bolt or atarka since that improves the number of explosive hands
if you want to max the mana on the 8 BTEs you can even play sunblade elf since we usualy play nacatl/experiment turn 1 and end up not using the green mana, also the 8 BTEs add 12 green and 4 red so you need way more green 1 mana cards than red ones
but i dont see RR bushwkacker being better than atarka
I can see cutting bolt if you want explosive hands, but not Atarka's Command because it is the embodiment of explosive. It lets you go off for lots of damage off of BTE-HH without a Bushwhacker.
I am already maximizing green. My list is in my signature. I'm playing 12 green 1 drops (4 E1, 4 Nacatl, 4 Renegade). Narnam Renegade is far better than Sunblade Elf even ignoring deathtouch. This requires you to think ahead for your T2 play so that you can maximize what you cast T2 off of HH or BTE.
yeah when i said to play sunblade (im not playing it at the moment) i meant in addition to the 12 we are already playing. (im playing the same main as you but 4 bolt, 4 rampager, 2 atarka for the reasons i mentioned)
call me crazy but i dont like the command, i see it as bushwhackers 5-6
rampager solves problems. they loose a creature, you save one of yours and does extra damage. but maybe its because of my meta, if i had to play a lot against non interactive decks i probably would like atarka's command more
I say give the Goblin Bushwhacker a shot. He helps you go wide, go fast, and hit hard with a +1 pump. As for Atarka's, it is optimal to keep if you do not include Goblin Bushwhacker. As for Atarka's, lets look a little deeper. All you really want out of it is a +1 pump to damage not defense and the three damage it gives is typically win more from my experience. If you want a +1 pump spell you can find it for cheaper. This could lead to +1 stacks in some cases. But, all this is food for thought and as I suggest, explore some of these options before dismissing them.
(I'm responding to a bunch of different posts here)
I've tried Goblin Bushwhacker in these shells several times, both with HH and without (a few months ago). It's bad. RR is too hard to get without some form of filtering, and you don't want to play manamorphose. I've tried it all. And a topdecked 1/1 when you need a real creature that can beat down for a couple turns is no good. You can't just concede to the grindy matchups, and your goldfish is already ridiculous against combo and big mana decks.
Maximizing green is a good consideration, but like elconquistador says, we're already doing that. There are 20 creatures in the deck that can be cast off HH's mana, including itself. With smart sequencing, it seems to rarely be a problem. Sunblade elf is cute but it's definitely worse than every creature we're already playing, and I wouldn't want another one drop.
Seriously guys, there is no way we cut Atarka's Command from this deck. It's the best card we have by a mile. It's what takes the medium* hands that only put 3 one drops into play in the first two turns and turns them into blistering fast starts that easily kill on turn 4. Many of our T3 kills involve casting command on turn 3. It also helps punch through blockers. It's literally the most explosive card in the deck. You don't need to have anything crazy going on for that card to give you 6+ damage (which means you just did 12+ damage in that attack step). Shaving bolts is much more defensible, though I don't like it. Shaving Atarka's Command only makes sense if the card is banned.
*Every time I call these hands medium I chuckle to myself a little because while it's accurate for this deck, they were near the best hands in the small zoo lists I was playing 6+ months ago. "Only" put 3 one drops into play in the first two turns. Lol.
We're already Naya for Nacatl and some SB cards (Path mostly). Loam Lion is much worse than every creature in our deck because it can't be played off BTE or HH, and there's no real upside. We have enough one drops. Devastating Summons is bad because: 1) We already have plenty of raw, explosive power. What we need is consistency and ability to hang with the grindy decks long enough to kill them, and 2) when you sac all of your lands, your Nacatls and Apes get smaller. I tried Summons a few months ago, along with Goblin Bushwhacker. It's certainly fun. But it only hurts the deck.
I say give the Goblin Bushwhacker a shot. He helps you go wide, go fast, and hit hard with a +1 pump. As for Atarka's, it is optimal to keep if you do not include Goblin Bushwhacker. As for Atarka's, lets look a little deeper. All you really want out of it is a +1 pump to damage not defense and the three damage it gives is typically win more from my experience. If you want a +1 pump spell you can find it for cheaper. This could lead to +1 stacks in some cases. But, all this is food for thought and as I suggest, explore some of these options before dismissing them.
This is well trodden territory. Goblin Bushwhacker has already been explored and found lacking.
I still have all the game replays so I could look at T4, but it's too many games to go back and look at and I think the most interesting/crucial turns are T2 and T3. I'll keep stats like this for a while. I also have W/L separated by deck, but there were only a few decks that I played against more than once so there's not much interesting there. That stuff is more interesting for my Burn deck, since I have 2323 games worth.
I'll be playing your list next week (after I get a run with Landfall this week).
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
No problem. Give Spooly credit for the list, though.
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Experiment One
4 Kird Ape
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka’s Command
2 Manamorphose
Lands (18)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
http://modernnexus.com/digging-delver-columbus-classic-hidden-herbalists/
The manabase isn't something I've thought hard about before now, but adding another fetch or two is probably good. Though he did it in the weirdest way IMO. I would have cut a Stomping Ground for a fetch because Temple Garden / Sacred Foundry + Basic gives you both colors of mana for a minimal amount of damage against stuff like burn. He's trying the manamorphose thing which is more degenerate for sure. Not sure if it's better though.
Manamorphose is good with Bushwhacker and can help Surging him (with or without HH) and the card draw could be useful. But just testing out to get some real perspective on the changes.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
I also agree that 13 and 5 seems ok. I'll add a Bloodstained Mire.
Edit: So my first experience with the Manamorphose was when I had two of them, 1 HH, and 1 BTE. I tried to use them to draw into something but only drew into another BTE. Ended up losing that game, though.
Played my first weekly, finishing 3-2. Beat Abzan midrange, GR Tron, and GR Ponza, lost to Breach Titan and Kiki Chord. I had 2 turn 3 kills in 13 games. I mulled all 3 games vs Ponza, but it didn't matter. I kept 1 landers with a couple one drops and a couple HH/BTE twice vs Abzan and found the land on turns 2 and 3 respectively. I did the same vs Breach Titan but never found the second land. G3 vs Kiki Chord I mulled to 5 and kept a 1 lander with a BTE and all one drops, but never saw the 3rd land.
Learning which hands to keep and which to mulligan is definitely going to be key with this deck, but I think a hand with, e.g., Fetch, Kird Ape, Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl, BTE, HH, Bolt is got to be a keep. We're at slightly better than 50% to hit the second land in one of the next two draw steps, and if we do it's disgusting. And in the mean time, we can still cast some creatures.
So because of this, youll find most players arent compident with the deck and will make bad plays. My win rate on cockatrice currently with dredge is around 80% and in paper or mtgo is 55%. When nothing is on the line, and players arent usuing "their" deck, games tend to be 1 sided. Its one of the reasons most players put more stock into mtgo results or pro gauntlets.
Channel fireball had about 2 years they were terrible at modern. Later they said it was because they tried to play the best deck and gauntleted each other blind. They said this was a mistake, they needed to play against infect with a real infect player to make good data.
Ill never look down data (and seriously thats a lot of work, so thank you) but I just wanted to point out that win % can be way way off on cockatrice. As a rule of thumb, I take off 10-20% depending on my expertice with the deck or style of deck.
I'm aware that cockatrice is loaded with people who aren't very good at the deck they're playing, but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying. I've run into one ho said "you aren't allowed to play more than one creature per turn, that's how tournaments are" after I had 8 power on board in turn 2, but most aren't that bad. There's also the people who open a room saying "Tier 1/Competitive/Tiers" or something similar and then play jank themselves.
That means the win rate is certainly suspect, but it doesn't really impact the resulting histograms of power and life totals. A bad opponent is still going to Bolt Nacatl when they can. In a sense, those histograms are a measure of the probability that an opponent can and does deal with creatures in some way before they get punched in the face too many times by those creatures. Excluding bad opening hand choices, this is kind of invariant between good and bad players. There is also a Magic League on cockatrice, where I expect the players to be more competent on average.
Power cast is a function of thoughtseize/IoK and hands I kept. Power on board is a function of those two plus removal.
I'd test on MTGO, but MTGO doesn't run on Linux and I have no interest in buying pictures of cards on the internet anyway. Data is certainly better than no data, and it would certainly take more than 5 days to get 100 games of paper data.
My impression of Manamorphose so far isn't that great compared to Mutagenic Growth. MG let me keep a creature alive after T1 Bolts if I needed to. Maybe I'm playing manamorphose wrong, but it seems like having it in hand tempts me into casting it in hopes to dig into something. I suppose at worst it replaces itself and lets you cast 2 1 drops.
"Fetch, Kird Ape, Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl, BTE, HH, Bolt is got to be a keep." Those are kinds of 1-landers I've been keeping. As long as you can get to Stomping Ground, you can ride it for a few turns before you're up a creek without a paddle.
Here's my list + SB:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Hidden Herbalist
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Lightning Helix
1 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Domri Rade
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Tin-Street Hooligan
2 Gut Shot
Your point about being able to play SB cards off free mana is a good one, and is the reason why I'm on Cage instead of Rest in Peace. But some of the white cards might be good enough. Here are some scattered mostly SB thoughts:
More on Cage: dredge is on the downswing, but I think it's still good and likely still played, and CoCo is on the upswing, so these slots feel justified. CoCo/Chord decks are kind of rough, but Cage puts it in easy mode.
For a short bit I thought I wanted Stony Silence, but once I realized I didn't even want it vs. Tron I changed my mind. Vs. Lantern I think we just want to be fast and have a piece of removal for bridge. Affinity is the only deck where I'm sure I want stony, and I don't think that's enough to justify it. The two pieces of removal I have are Tin-Street Hooligan, which is great with the free mana, Atarka's Command, and Bushwhacker, but also sort of concedes against nonsense like Worship. I really want to not care about enchantments, but having access to Revelry might be worth it.
I'm not sure Path is better than Ghor-Clan, which you can see based on my SB. We want a couple paths because of stuff like Finks and Wurmcoil and to have access to more removal in fast aggro mirrors, but Ghor-Clan is so much less likely to be dead if, e.g., they don't draw their blocker. Plus the synergy with Narnam Renegade is sweet. More than once I've had opponents forced into trading a large Ooze or Goyf with a Renegade.
That said, I kind of want 1-2 Ghor-Clan MD while still keeping 2 Mutas to trigger the Bushwhackers. Sometimes you have trouble punching through blockers when going wide isn't a strong option, and this would help a lot. I don't really want to shave a creature and shaving a bolt or a command is off the table. Probably shaving an Experiment One is Ok. Shaving one Muta might be ok too, but I start to get nervous with 4 Bushwhackers. Alternatively, we can revert to my original list with -2 Muta, -1 Bushwhacker, +2 Ghor-Clan, +1 Path/something else.
I'm not sure what the best plan is against Burn yet, but in these decks I've tended to lean toward 1) not having too many dedicated anti-burn cards, and instead packing stuff that comes in elsewhere, 2) not having too much of a strain on white mana, 3) not having too many cards that die to Revelry so them SBing it in is bad, and 4) not having too many cards that don't impact the board. Phyrexian Unlife requires white and doesn't impact the board, but gain 10 is incredible against them, so I tend to think it's worth it. The other two slots are currently Helix, which only strain white mana, but they're also not super high impact. On the other hand, just having more removal against Burn is also good, so maybe that's ok. I've considered Unflinching Courage as well, but they're already probably bringing Path in against us, it's hard to justify that many 3 mana spells in the burn matchup, and they're also not broadly useful. With all the free mana, Dragon's Claw is more interesting now like you say, and I don't think many burn players are expecting it right now either so they won't automatically have their revelrys in. T2 BTE/HH into Claw is fairly strong, but on the other hand, BTE/HH into two one drops is already really strong against them, and Claw still doesn't catch you up. Nothing really blows me away here, but at the moment I'm still leaning toward Unlife + 2 Helix in those slots. Just optimize your nut draws against them since they can't beat those, use removal/Helix to slow them down, and hope to draw Unlife to win the tough games.
Domri is for GBx and blue based control matchups. Those games tend to go long, so the 3 CMC is more justified. I'm not super sold on the second one over something like a Choke, but unfortunately there's no similar hate card for the GBx decks. We might bring Domri in vs. CoCo/Chord decks too, but I'm not sure.
Gut Shot is for Infect and decks with mana dorks, notably Eldrazi. We just want to be faster than Eldrazi, and killing their bird is exactly what you want to do. This feels like the weakest card in my SB, and we don't really need the help vs. Infect since Path is already pretty good there, but right now I'm leaving it in just because of what it does vs. Bant Eldrazi. Slowing them down is the best thing for us to be doing, and we can't reasonably play any of the available land destruction.
Keep in mind when SBing, by the way, that if you side out Mutagenic Growth and don't bring in Gut Shot, it's probably correct to cut a Bushwhacker. They can be clunky in multiples, especially when you can't find a way to trigger them.
i think its great against blockers
against a goyf for example, atarka deals more damage now but then on your next turn you do less damage since the goyf is still there and you lost a creature. with rampager you still do extra damage the turn you cast it, although less than atarka but you do more damage next turn since the goyf is gone and you didnt lost a creature
i made the example with goyf, but the same applies against a lot of creatures
i would play 4 bolts, 4 rampagers and 2 atarka since we are already playing bushwhackers and 6 go wide pumpers (10 total) its enough to close games
Atarka's Command is the best card in the deck. There's no way we're cutting it. Cutting Bushwhackers first is most certainly correct.
4 Rampagers is definitely too many because they can be clunky to draw in multiples. I cut them originally to try the most extreme version of the deck possible (short of running manamorphose).
So, listen up. lol
Both reckless and goblin bushwhacker should be in this deck chaining into 8BTEs. The issue will be ensuring your mana color ratios are on point, but that just takes time. Also, decks that sport high creatures, low support, and low mana typically cap out around 16 two costing cards (8Whack + 8BTEs = 16 two costing cards). What that means is that attarka's command as good as it is needs to go. Why? Whacker's chain into BTEs for explosive wins - not atarka's. Lastly, with decks like this spot removal isn't needed in the first game at least. What?! Did you just tell me Bolt is not needed?! Yes. Game one, you go fast, go wide, and hit hard in +1 damage buffs to all creatures. Do I expect anyone to try out what I suggested?...No. lol Because, for most, Atarka's and Bolt are too big of draw to be excluded in a more competitive build. In the end, I think small zoo now has a place at a T1 or T2 level with recent card releases, so I'm sure I'll be hearing about a few of you hitting the top 8 brackets.
Oh, and as for you brewers out there. Try out naya colors to make the most out of wild nacatl and have access to loam lion. Also, devastating summons is also a great card to chain into if you mana is set at 19.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
With the HH-BTE build, a broken T2 can lead into Atarka's Command for a boatload on T3 even off of 2 lands. Goblin is too hard to chain into, and a T3 Atarka's Command is more damage anyway.
if you want to max the mana on the 8 BTEs you can even play sunblade elf since we usualy play nacatl/experiment turn 1 and end up not using the green mana, also the 8 BTEs add 12 green and 4 red so you need way more green 1 mana cards than red ones
but i dont see RR bushwkacker being better than atarka
I can see cutting bolt if you want explosive hands, but not Atarka's Command because it is the embodiment of explosive. It lets you go off for lots of damage off of BTE-HH without a Bushwhacker.
I am already maximizing green. My list is in my signature. I'm playing 12 green 1 drops (4 E1, 4 Nacatl, 4 Renegade). Narnam Renegade is far better than Sunblade Elf even ignoring deathtouch. This requires you to think ahead for your T2 play so that you can maximize what you cast T2 off of HH or BTE.
call me crazy but i dont like the command, i see it as bushwhackers 5-6
rampager solves problems. they loose a creature, you save one of yours and does extra damage. but maybe its because of my meta, if i had to play a lot against non interactive decks i probably would like atarka's command more
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
I've tried Goblin Bushwhacker in these shells several times, both with HH and without (a few months ago). It's bad. RR is too hard to get without some form of filtering, and you don't want to play manamorphose. I've tried it all. And a topdecked 1/1 when you need a real creature that can beat down for a couple turns is no good. You can't just concede to the grindy matchups, and your goldfish is already ridiculous against combo and big mana decks.
Maximizing green is a good consideration, but like elconquistador says, we're already doing that. There are 20 creatures in the deck that can be cast off HH's mana, including itself. With smart sequencing, it seems to rarely be a problem. Sunblade elf is cute but it's definitely worse than every creature we're already playing, and I wouldn't want another one drop.
Seriously guys, there is no way we cut Atarka's Command from this deck. It's the best card we have by a mile. It's what takes the medium* hands that only put 3 one drops into play in the first two turns and turns them into blistering fast starts that easily kill on turn 4. Many of our T3 kills involve casting command on turn 3. It also helps punch through blockers. It's literally the most explosive card in the deck. You don't need to have anything crazy going on for that card to give you 6+ damage (which means you just did 12+ damage in that attack step). Shaving bolts is much more defensible, though I don't like it. Shaving Atarka's Command only makes sense if the card is banned.
*Every time I call these hands medium I chuckle to myself a little because while it's accurate for this deck, they were near the best hands in the small zoo lists I was playing 6+ months ago. "Only" put 3 one drops into play in the first two turns. Lol.
We're already Naya for Nacatl and some SB cards (Path mostly). Loam Lion is much worse than every creature in our deck because it can't be played off BTE or HH, and there's no real upside. We have enough one drops. Devastating Summons is bad because: 1) We already have plenty of raw, explosive power. What we need is consistency and ability to hang with the grindy decks long enough to kill them, and 2) when you sac all of your lands, your Nacatls and Apes get smaller. I tried Summons a few months ago, along with Goblin Bushwhacker. It's certainly fun. But it only hurts the deck.
This is well trodden territory. Goblin Bushwhacker has already been explored and found lacking.