Naya Company is well suited for the meta right now. It's Tier 3 not based on its win % but based on the fewer number of people that play it. Most competitive players prefer playing one of two styles of decks: highly interactive (ala Jund, Jeskai Nahiri, etc) or busted linear (ala infect, bloom titan etc). Naya Company is right in the middle of that, with some interaction in the form of removal spells, but a linear(ish) attack plan.
Naya Company is in a great position because there isn't a form of busted combo deck that is running rampant.
Naya Company is well suited for the meta right now. It's Tier 3 not based on its win % but based on the fewer number of people that play it. Most competitive players prefer playing one of two styles of decks: highly interactive (ala Jund, Jeskai Nahiri, etc) or busted linear (ala infect, bloom titan etc). Naya Company is right in the middle of that, with some interaction in the form of removal spells, but a linear(ish) attack plan.
Naya Company is in a great position because there isn't a form of busted combo deck that is running rampant.
But there is Tron, who is holding a high percentage on the metagame statistics right now, and is a really bad match for Naya Company.
I would disagree with Naya Company being the best-positioned Zoo variant. As r497 notes, it's miserable against Tron (whereas its Gruul Zoo counterpart is pretty good, provided it doesn't get swept), and it undeniably has more trouble against fast/evasive aggro decks, or linear combo decks like Ad Nauseam or Titanshift. It matches up better against midrange, and it's debatable which is better against control. I just think Gruul Zoo is the better deck right now.
I would disagree with Naya Company being the best-positioned Zoo variant. As r497 notes, it's miserable against Tron (whereas its Gruul Zoo counterpart is pretty good, provided it doesn't get swept), and it undeniably has more trouble against fast/evasive aggro decks, or linear combo decks like Ad Nauseam or Titanshift. It matches up better against midrange, and it's debatable which is better against control. I just think Gruul Zoo is the better deck right now.
Naya Company is well suited for the meta right now. It's Tier 3 not based on its win % but based on the fewer number of people that play it. Most competitive players prefer playing one of two styles of decks: highly interactive (ala Jund, Jeskai Nahiri, etc) or busted linear (ala infect, bloom titan etc). Naya Company is right in the middle of that, with some interaction in the form of removal spells, but a linear(ish) attack plan.
Naya Company is in a great position because there isn't a form of busted combo deck that is running rampant.
But there is Tron, who is holding a high percentage on the metagame statistics right now, and is a really bad match for Naya Company.
Dude, that's just like saying that Lil Zoo is a bad meta call just because Jund has a high representation in the meta. If you ask me Big Zoo is much more flexible and resilient and Zookeepers was a step backwards in the direction we were heading.
Just like in any other matchup, there are free wins and free losses. And I would say that Ad Nauseam is a much better matchup for Big Zoo than it is for Lil Zoo, pre sideboard and after sideboard.
This is like Modern 101: All decks have bad matchups. Its like dismissing Lil Zoo just because Abzan Company or Jeskai Control has a big representation of the meta.
And also we are being pretty skewed in our analysis if we just forget that stats is just aggregated information. There is no such thing as a big meta for Modern. I can tell you that in South America the meta is much more linear and aggro and that control barely exists.
Of course playing against Tron as Big Zoo is not an insta loss either. They are much more volatile now than ever before and the time they take in assembling the pieces gives you plenty of time to develop a solid boardstate.
I will insist that Big Zoo is just as viable than before. Its a beaters deck with tons of options in sideboard (much more than Lil Zoo), and that doesnt fold against hate easily. How is it ever going to be a bad option? If you are doing bad with the deck you shoulndt reconsider your deck, but how you are playing: adjust your plan accordingly, grind against different matchups and simply, learn to play better.
Is Tron really that bad of a matchup?
I'd lose to MonoU tron if I can't GQ the Ruins before he gets the lock, but other than that I can typically race them pretty well.
No it's not that bad. It is a deck that doesn't respond well to a turn 3 company or to a timely ghost quarter. Both of those options will give you plenty of time to seal the game. Game 1, go for early aggression and a KOTR (THE SOONER THE BETTER). When its time for sideboard go for early stony silence and blood moon and Aven Mindcensor (if it is in your sb) and you should have an easy game.
I would disagree with Naya Company being the best-positioned Zoo variant. As r497 notes, it's miserable against Tron (whereas its Gruul Zoo counterpart is pretty good, provided it doesn't get swept), and it undeniably has more trouble against fast/evasive aggro decks, or linear combo decks like Ad Nauseam or Titanshift. It matches up better against midrange, and it's debatable which is better against control. I just think Gruul Zoo is the better deck right now.
IME it's anything but miserable against Tron, is better against Fish than Gruul (IME), but does definitely struggle against Ad Naus and Titanshift (although the latter isn't horrible, just not great).
Just trying to figure out why my experience is different from theirs. If it's different skill levels of opponents that's fine, but I'm curious how prevalent the above opinion is.
They are just talking out of their asses if you ask me. Its a disfavorable matchup (I would put it 40 vs 60), but by far not the worst. With Ad Nauseaum I dont see why it can be difficult. They wont have the combo every game 1 turn 4, and if you are the early aggressor and keep a hand with Pridemage, it can be beat. Game 2 and 3 should be much easier: deploy an early thalia (and if you are playing Phyrexian Unlife and Eidolon of Rhetoric those as well) and you can win fairly easy.
Titanshift is a pain in the bottom I will admit it.
Naya Company is well suited for the meta right now. It's Tier 3 not based on its win % but based on the fewer number of people that play it. Most competitive players prefer playing one of two styles of decks: highly interactive (ala Jund, Jeskai Nahiri, etc) or busted linear (ala infect, bloom titan etc). Naya Company is right in the middle of that, with some interaction in the form of removal spells, but a linear(ish) attack plan.
Naya Company is in a great position because there isn't a form of busted combo deck that is running rampant.
But there is Tron, who is holding a high percentage on the metagame statistics right now, and is a really bad match for Naya Company.
Dude, that's just like saying that Lil Zoo is a bad meta call just because Jund has a high representation in the meta. If you ask me Big Zoo is much more flexible and resilient and Zookeepers was a step backwards in the direction we were heading.
Just like in any other matchup, there are free wins and free losses. And I would say that Ad Nauseam is a much better matchup for Big Zoo than it is for Lil Zoo, pre sideboard and after sideboard.
This is like Modern 101: All decks have bad matchups. Its like dismissing Lil Zoo just because Abzan Company or Jeskai Control has a big representation of the meta.
And also we are being pretty skewed in our analysis if we just forget that stats is just aggregated information. There is no such thing as a big meta for Modern. I can tell you that in South America the meta is much more linear and aggro and that control barely exists.
Of course playing against Tron as Big Zoo is not an insta loss either. They are much more volatile now than ever before and the time they take in assembling the pieces gives you plenty of time to develop a solid boardstate.
I will insist that Big Zoo is just as viable than before. Its a beaters deck with tons of options in sideboard (much more than Lil Zoo), and that doesnt fold against hate easily. How is it ever going to be a bad option? If you are doing bad with the deck you shoulndt reconsider your deck, but how you are playing: adjust your plan accordingly, grind against different matchups and simply, learn to play better.
I'm actually playing Big Zoo on the past weeks and doing good with it.
What I said is that I don't think it's the best Zoo version at the moment. I think both Big (be it Company or Walkers) Zoo and Gruul are on equal grounds right now, one being great against one part of the field and the other against the rest. It kinda balances out on the overall on a big and unknown field.
But, if you're playing on a field you have some insight, one will surelly be better than the other, depending on what decks are more prevalent.
Also, regarding Ad Nauseam, post sideboard they always bring Echoing Truth to bounce your hate card on the turn before they go off. It's not "just play Thalia and win".
And, yes, tron is winnable, as is every matchup. The thing is that Tron is made to prey on Midrange fair decks, losing to fast aggro. Big Zoo don't have the faster early game like Gruul has because it is built to be more robust and midrange-y. You can have fast hands and kill early, but that's not the norm.
Also, regarding Ad Nauseam, post sideboard they always bring Echoing Truth to bounce your hate card on the turn before they go off. It's not "just play Thalia and win".
No, but it's not as easy as bouncing a single hate card either. They have to get rid of Thalia, get rid of Qasali (or go off in response to killing their Unlife) and still have mana left - which is why I've seen Slaughter Pact more than Truth.
And, yes, tron is winnable, as is every matchup. The thing is that Tron is made to prey on Midrange fair decks, losing to fast aggro. Big Zoo don't have the faster early game like Gruul has because it is built to be more robust and midrange-y. You can have fast hands and kill early, but that's not the norm.
You didn't say it's just bad, you said "really bad". Just "not the norm" isn't "really bad" in my eyes.
I'd say it's pretty close to 40-60 overall - I'm higher than that locally because the local (r/g) tron players aren't that good I guess.
As cliche as it sounds, modern is a format that rewards you for knowing your deck and the metagame. Play what you feel you can maneuver, and get reps in.
I also play a Dryad Arbor in my 19 lands, can be very usefully in many cases.
I always found that to be awkward. If you have that and a fetchland and a Nacatl/E1/GG you can't play the Arbor turn one or lose significant tempo, and playing it turn 2 (unless you have no other land) means you can't BTE.
It's cool when you have 2 lands plus Arbor and can BTE+Reckless so it gets haste and can swing as an additional free creature... but the awkward starting hands really hurt the deck IMO.
Also, they'll be hosting a 24 ppl event in my LGS (they've been handing invites to the winners of each weekly modern for the past months) and, for what I know of the guys that have invites, this is what they'll be playing:
2-3 UWR
1-2 Jund
1-2 Infect
1-2 Merfolk
1 Kiki Chord
2 Small Zoo
2 Burn
1 Tron
1 Dredge
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Esper Thopters
Maybe 1 Living End
Don't know yet if I should go with Gruul, Company or Zoo Walkers on this field and what should I bring on my sideboard. Any insights?
Also, they'll be hosting a 24 ppl event in my LGS (they've been handing invites to the winners of each weekly modern for the past months) and, for what I know of the guys that have invites, this is what they'll be playing:
2-3 UWR
1-2 Jund
1-2 Infect
1-2 Merfolk
1 Kiki Chord
2 Small Zoo
2 Burn
1 Tron
1 Dredge
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Esper Thopters
Maybe 1 Living End
Don't know yet if I should go with Gruul, Company or Zoo Walkers on this field and what should I bring on my sideboard. Any insights?
I think some form of big zoo is better against this field. You get to be decently aggressive while also being able to grind out longer games vs UWR/Jund while being able to play the control role better against the more linear decks. I also think big zoo is able to have a more versatile sideboard.
I've watched a bunch of bushwhacker zoo games at modern events this week and I think the deck is too high variance. They either blitz out to a quick win or just fizzle out after getting run out of cards.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
It has been brought up before but I love messing with THEE OLE zoo. 8 person small tourney. I played Naya Nahiri. Dropped my walkers and ran 4x nahiri and 1x emrakual. It plays just like zoo and if you get a Nahiri boom. 3 rounds I went 2-1. first round won with emrakual. second round he was on some abazan jund thing, I had big board and he kept swinging souls to knock my nahir to 6 every time. I just won with kessig on knight and then on a Smiter. last round was living end with Nahiri. first game he blew up my board with living end and killed me. Second game he got the Emak out. I think this is a cool deck that doesn't need nahiri to win but she helps the midrange match ups. After the toruney my friends brought out some testing. BUG, jund, and dredge. I took them down with nahiri into emak 7 out of 9 games. then the 8th game I just overpowered the board for a win.Last was a dude putting like 14 power on the board with dredge and I lost. out of whole game I drew into emak once. then after sitting in my hand for 3 turns I put him into GY with nahiri
3-0-1 today with the list I posted a couple posts above.
2-0 vs UG Doubling Season (had to ask what deck he was on, since I killed him both games on turn 3 and saw only lands and Sleight of Hand/Serum Visions)
2-0 vs Ad Nauseam
Got to kill right before he killed me.
2-1 vs Boggles
Had a lot of luck on g3, as he stumbled in a slow hand and I had time to catch up.
4 Mutagenics and an extra 1 drop felt good.
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Modern: WGUBR 5c Humans GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy: GW GW Maverick R Goblins
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Naya Company is in a great position because there isn't a form of busted combo deck that is running rampant.
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But there is Tron, who is holding a high percentage on the metagame statistics right now, and is a really bad match for Naya Company.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Then by all means, feel free to play Gruul Zoo.
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Dude, that's just like saying that Lil Zoo is a bad meta call just because Jund has a high representation in the meta. If you ask me Big Zoo is much more flexible and resilient and Zookeepers was a step backwards in the direction we were heading.
Just like in any other matchup, there are free wins and free losses. And I would say that Ad Nauseam is a much better matchup for Big Zoo than it is for Lil Zoo, pre sideboard and after sideboard.
This is like Modern 101: All decks have bad matchups. Its like dismissing Lil Zoo just because Abzan Company or Jeskai Control has a big representation of the meta.
And also we are being pretty skewed in our analysis if we just forget that stats is just aggregated information. There is no such thing as a big meta for Modern. I can tell you that in South America the meta is much more linear and aggro and that control barely exists.
Of course playing against Tron as Big Zoo is not an insta loss either. They are much more volatile now than ever before and the time they take in assembling the pieces gives you plenty of time to develop a solid boardstate.
I will insist that Big Zoo is just as viable than before. Its a beaters deck with tons of options in sideboard (much more than Lil Zoo), and that doesnt fold against hate easily. How is it ever going to be a bad option? If you are doing bad with the deck you shoulndt reconsider your deck, but how you are playing: adjust your plan accordingly, grind against different matchups and simply, learn to play better.
I'd lose to MonoU tron if I can't GQ the Ruins before he gets the lock, but other than that I can typically race them pretty well.
But then there's
and
IME it's anything but miserable against Tron, is better against Fish than Gruul (IME), but does definitely struggle against Ad Naus and Titanshift (although the latter isn't horrible, just not great).
Just trying to figure out why my experience is different from theirs. If it's different skill levels of opponents that's fine, but I'm curious how prevalent the above opinion is.
Titanshift is a pain in the bottom I will admit it.
I'm actually playing Big Zoo on the past weeks and doing good with it.
What I said is that I don't think it's the best Zoo version at the moment. I think both Big (be it Company or Walkers) Zoo and Gruul are on equal grounds right now, one being great against one part of the field and the other against the rest. It kinda balances out on the overall on a big and unknown field.
But, if you're playing on a field you have some insight, one will surelly be better than the other, depending on what decks are more prevalent.
Also, regarding Ad Nauseam, post sideboard they always bring Echoing Truth to bounce your hate card on the turn before they go off. It's not "just play Thalia and win".
And, yes, tron is winnable, as is every matchup. The thing is that Tron is made to prey on Midrange fair decks, losing to fast aggro. Big Zoo don't have the faster early game like Gruul has because it is built to be more robust and midrange-y. You can have fast hands and kill early, but that's not the norm.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
No, but it's not as easy as bouncing a single hate card either. They have to get rid of Thalia, get rid of Qasali (or go off in response to killing their Unlife) and still have mana left - which is why I've seen Slaughter Pact more than Truth.
You didn't say it's just bad, you said "really bad". Just "not the norm" isn't "really bad" in my eyes.
I'd say it's pretty close to 40-60 overall - I'm higher than that locally because the local (r/g) tron players aren't that good I guess.
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I always found that to be awkward. If you have that and a fetchland and a Nacatl/E1/GG you can't play the Arbor turn one or lose significant tempo, and playing it turn 2 (unless you have no other land) means you can't BTE.
It's cool when you have 2 lands plus Arbor and can BTE+Reckless so it gets haste and can swing as an additional free creature... but the awkward starting hands really hurt the deck IMO.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
3 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
1 Forest
Creatures (29)
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
1 Loam Lion
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Mutagenic Growth
1 Devastating Summons
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Path to Exile
2 Molten Rain
1 Domri Rade
2 Lightning Helix
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Grafdigger's Cage
Also, they'll be hosting a 24 ppl event in my LGS (they've been handing invites to the winners of each weekly modern for the past months) and, for what I know of the guys that have invites, this is what they'll be playing:
2-3 UWR
1-2 Jund
1-2 Infect
1-2 Merfolk
1 Kiki Chord
2 Small Zoo
2 Burn
1 Tron
1 Dredge
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Esper Thopters
Maybe 1 Living End
Don't know yet if I should go with Gruul, Company or Zoo Walkers on this field and what should I bring on my sideboard. Any insights?
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
I think some form of big zoo is better against this field. You get to be decently aggressive while also being able to grind out longer games vs UWR/Jund while being able to play the control role better against the more linear decks. I also think big zoo is able to have a more versatile sideboard.
I've watched a bunch of bushwhacker zoo games at modern events this week and I think the deck is too high variance. They either blitz out to a quick win or just fizzle out after getting run out of cards.
And I was thinking something linke this for the sideboard:
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Eidolon of Rethoric
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Lightning Helix
2 Molten Rain
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Choke
Yep, Cage shuts my CoCos, but I'll bring it in matchs like Dredge and Kiki Chord, where I'll side them out.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
2-0 vs UG Doubling Season (had to ask what deck he was on, since I killed him both games on turn 3 and saw only lands and Sleight of Hand/Serum Visions)
2-0 vs Ad Nauseam
Got to kill right before he killed me.
2-1 vs Boggles
Had a lot of luck on g3, as he stumbled in a slow hand and I had time to catch up.
4 Mutagenics and an extra 1 drop felt good.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins