How do we feel about a singleton Thundermaw at the top of the curve? It's no secret that Lingering Souls was huge at the PT (5th most played card of all x-4 or better decks in the modern portion). Feels like this is one of the few homes that can realistically play it on curve.
2-1-1 ID. Lost to a better player on junk. Lingering souls for days into a vault of the archangel for a build-your-own-hornet-queen effect. Was pretty crazy. Thought about thundermaw too, but as Alex said, bonfire is just better a lot of the time. I have however, beenentertaining the idea of an Olivia volderan. Just an idea.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
New zoo player here. What do you guys think about the viability of Eidolon of the Great Revel in small zoo or would Voice of Resurgence be the better option ? Or neither ?
Quick disclaimer I understand the importance and the necessity of gofy, and I may aquire in the near future. That being said I'm not trying to build a t1/1.5 zoo. My playgroup is mostly t2 decks anyway. I was testing 1 drop for awhile and simply didn't like it. Thus I'm looking to be a little faster/burn oriented / resilient
Youve got to build your deck differently, but Eidolon is a great 2 drop for Zoo. That said, if youre looking for a kitchen table deck Eidolon is only going to be fun for you. Voice would be a much better play experience if youre mostly planning to play among more casual friends.
Youve got to build your deck differently, but Eidolon is a great 2 drop for Zoo. That said, if youre looking for a kitchen table deck Eidolon is only going to be fun for you. Voice would be a much better play experience if youre mostly planning to play among more casual friends.
Probably looking to play FNM level. Still competition but I'm not looking to sweep every week. Does that change anything ?
My current list is on the last page. Its called "Phyrexian Zoo" and plays alot closer to Infect than the bigger Zoo lists. There are some other lists on the SCG website. Its got the selling point that youre looking for, in that it doesnt require Tarmogoyf (although if I owned them I would likely play some number, probably 3) to function as intended.
I really don't want to cloud up the 4 drop spot right now. As is, I'm running rhinos and wilt-leaf liege x2. Probably gonna cut liege though. It's been fine, but never really good
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
it's two good cards for different strategies: eidolon gets stronger in more aggressive, faster decks; voice is good if you plan to be more midrange, maybe coupled with scavenging ooze and other "almost hate bears" cards.
My current list is on the last page. Its called "Phyrexian Zoo" and plays alot closer to Infect than the bigger Zoo lists. There are some other lists on the SCG website. Its got the selling point that youre looking for, in that it doesnt require Tarmogoyf (although if I owned them I would likely play some number, probably 3) to function as intended.
Awesome thanks guys. I have seen a few phyrexian zoo lists over on scg before. They looked interesting. Wasn't sure if I should spend some time with small zoo before playing other variants. But it is something I've had my eye on.
Also are people still running Ajani Vengeant? I've been playing a lot of MTGO at the moment before I buy in paper and my worst matchup seems to be the midrangey decks because I don't have a big beater (lack of gofy) . The 4 cmc isn't the issue because turn 4 is usually when I'm running out of gas and they're just taking over. Thinking as a 2 of maybe in sideboard primarily for his +1 so I can continue to swing in with a rhino/goyf on the board. Any other suggestions? Should I just try to burn them instead ?
Ive thought about cutting either ajani(moreso) or thrun and putting olivia in as the 4th "rhino" because she is so powerful against the other midrange creature decks.
Ive also thought about dropping down a bolt or 2 for a couple decays or even a
3 bolt
3 path
2 decay
Split bc bolt just isnt that good right now with everyone trying to go above it
Yes, ajani is still great in midrange strategies, but also consider elspeth, knight errant if you are on a more aggressive plan. Although, if you are trying out phyrexian zoo i'd say to leave planeswalkers out of the equation and focus on protecting your aggro against midrange (which will still be the big enemy unless you transition to bigger versions)
I had no intention of having the planeswalkers with phyrexian but wow I can't believe I overlooked Elspeth. I think I might main 2 of her. That's exactly what I want to do but better and it's certainly useful is most matchups. By the time siege rhino is out, I just need to be able to keep swinging. That allows me to do what I want and some! Caller of the pride is interesting as well but even with the double strike I'd still be losing one of my critters. In the midrange matchups by turn 4 I'm usually at ~13 life so I can take a few big hits. I just need to keep poking them.
Thanks :).
I'm going to pick up the missing cards onine and play test a bunch. I'll post a sample list later this week for people to critique. I want to try to make the aggro small zoo work without gofy. If it's not viable I'll probably just switch to phyrexian.
At the moment I try Kor Firewalker but he isn't doing great. You need him turn 2 otherwise he doesn't get enough life =(. Lost against burn even with Thalia in Finks in Firewalker.
The main reason i didnt like leyline was because i didnt have such a heavy black splash and firewalker was a fine draw in the matchups he is good where leyline is mostly a bad topdeck imo
Plus i also thought scapeshift and burn would subside but apparently there are still brave souls out there haha
But now that i have a more black heavy splash trying to cast firewalker is too tough and leyline has a lot more crossover especially with abzan being huge again.
I like thundermaw a lot, I may shave 1 tasigur for it.
Bonfire is great but is not main deckable.
I disagree with cutting down the number of bolts, with the amount of affinity, burn, and infect running around, its needed
Olivia seems fine
Again, domri seems awful. Theres too many decks who can attack it, or just dont care about it
Bonfire is horrible maindeck...miracle drawing all the time NO THANK YOU!!! Haha
However, i still like it better than thundermaw simply because thundermaw is very bad if people migrate to the gavony township version of abzan(that our deck creator cheated on us with :P) then bonfire becomes much better.
Plus im still running kessig wolf run so that may help getting through the tokens as well.
Yeah those matchups are still around but those are all matchups that get way better games 2/3 so i think i would be fine losing 1 bolt to make my twin and abzan g1s that much better. Its questionable and testable
Also in the same context i have found domri to be decent. He is fantastic against junk because he is a source of card advantage. I could see cutting him for 2 decays though to try out
Personally I like Phyrexian Unlife and Unflinching Courage. Kor Firewalker requires you to bolt yourself, sometimes twice, which is not optimal. Then you get blown out with Skullcrack where you lose life and Firewalker...
How often are you getting blown out like that? Geez. It sounds to me like you have just had poor experiences. Most of the time firewalker will do more vs burn than phyrexian life of unflinching courage. (thought i must admit that i have an unhealthy love of unflinching courage myself)
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Modern: WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH: WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
Personally I like Phyrexian Unlife and Unflinching Courage. Kor Firewalker requires you to bolt yourself, sometimes twice, which is not optimal. Then you get blown out with Skullcrack where you lose life and Firewalker...
I won't deny this has happened to me before. You just feel terrible when it happens it's why I try to board boros charm in with the kor firewalker whenever I go against burn. Or I just get my loam lion to block instead.
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Gaining 10 life against burn is very good (and being immune to skullcrack).
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Siege Rhino
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
12 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lingering Souls
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Stony Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Rule of Law
3 Slaughter Games
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2-1 Tarmo Twin
1-1 Draw ray tautic playing his dredgevine that he cashed with at the pro tour
2-1 Haakon loam
I actually couldn't beat ray, I had to delay his attackers and wait for him to draw out.
Against loam, tarmogoyf grew to an 8/9, which was awesome
Ive changed my list up a lot and ill have to post it when i get home
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Quick disclaimer I understand the importance and the necessity of gofy, and I may aquire in the near future. That being said I'm not trying to build a t1/1.5 zoo. My playgroup is mostly t2 decks anyway. I was testing 1 drop for awhile and simply didn't like it. Thus I'm looking to be a little faster/burn oriented / resilient
Probably looking to play FNM level. Still competition but I'm not looking to sweep every week. Does that change anything ?
My current list is on the last page. Its called "Phyrexian Zoo" and plays alot closer to Infect than the bigger Zoo lists. There are some other lists on the SCG website. Its got the selling point that youre looking for, in that it doesnt require Tarmogoyf (although if I owned them I would likely play some number, probably 3) to function as intended.
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Awesome thanks guys. I have seen a few phyrexian zoo lists over on scg before. They looked interesting. Wasn't sure if I should spend some time with small zoo before playing other variants. But it is something I've had my eye on.
Also are people still running Ajani Vengeant? I've been playing a lot of MTGO at the moment before I buy in paper and my worst matchup seems to be the midrangey decks because I don't have a big beater (lack of gofy) . The 4 cmc isn't the issue because turn 4 is usually when I'm running out of gas and they're just taking over. Thinking as a 2 of maybe in sideboard primarily for his +1 so I can continue to swing in with a rhino/goyf on the board. Any other suggestions? Should I just try to burn them instead ?
My list that i have currently is
4 N Hierarch
4 Nacatl
1 BoP
3 S Ooze
4 Goyf
3 Smiter
4 knight
3 rhino
1 thrun
4 Bolt
4 path
2 domri
1 ajani V
SideBoard
2 bonfire
2 combust
1 pridemage
1 revelry
3 leyline of sanctity
2 fracturing gust
2 stony silence
2 lingering souls
Ive thought about cutting either ajani(moreso) or thrun and putting olivia in as the 4th "rhino" because she is so powerful against the other midrange creature decks.
Ive also thought about dropping down a bolt or 2 for a couple decays or even a
3 bolt
3 path
2 decay
Split bc bolt just isnt that good right now with everyone trying to go above it
Bonfire is great but is not main deckable.
I disagree with cutting down the number of bolts, with the amount of affinity, burn, and infect running around, its needed
Olivia seems fine
Again, domri seems awful. Theres too many decks who can attack it, or just dont care about it
I had no intention of having the planeswalkers with phyrexian but wow I can't believe I overlooked Elspeth. I think I might main 2 of her. That's exactly what I want to do but better and it's certainly useful is most matchups. By the time siege rhino is out, I just need to be able to keep swinging. That allows me to do what I want and some! Caller of the pride is interesting as well but even with the double strike I'd still be losing one of my critters. In the midrange matchups by turn 4 I'm usually at ~13 life so I can take a few big hits. I just need to keep poking them.
Thanks :).
I'm going to pick up the missing cards onine and play test a bunch. I'll post a sample list later this week for people to critique. I want to try to make the aggro small zoo work without gofy. If it's not viable I'll probably just switch to phyrexian.
The main reason i didnt like leyline was because i didnt have such a heavy black splash and firewalker was a fine draw in the matchups he is good where leyline is mostly a bad topdeck imo
Plus i also thought scapeshift and burn would subside but apparently there are still brave souls out there haha
But now that i have a more black heavy splash trying to cast firewalker is too tough and leyline has a lot more crossover especially with abzan being huge again.
Bonfire is horrible maindeck...miracle drawing all the time NO THANK YOU!!! Haha
However, i still like it better than thundermaw simply because thundermaw is very bad if people migrate to the gavony township version of abzan(that our deck creator cheated on us with :P) then bonfire becomes much better.
Plus im still running kessig wolf run so that may help getting through the tokens as well.
Yeah those matchups are still around but those are all matchups that get way better games 2/3 so i think i would be fine losing 1 bolt to make my twin and abzan g1s that much better. Its questionable and testable
Also in the same context i have found domri to be decent. He is fantastic against junk because he is a source of card advantage. I could see cutting him for 2 decays though to try out
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH:
WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
I won't deny this has happened to me before. You just feel terrible when it happens it's why I try to board boros charm in with the kor firewalker whenever I go against burn. Or I just get my loam lion to block instead.