Another way to do it is drop the Commands (maybe move them to the board), and replace them with Nissa, Worldwaker for additional ramp/devotion (and incidentally, grinding power), which would allow me to cast Emrakul reliably. I may then also want to drop some/all Witness for something else -- maybe Wistful Selkie or Finks.
Thoughts?
Given that you do have Emrakul main board i think that Nissa would be a good edition, the witnesses fit well with the amount of primeval commands your running but i would drop one just to make room for nissa
Meh, moving Commands to the board for now, and putting 3 Nissa main. Keeping the Witnesses for resilience, but might swap out for Selkies after testing.
Another way to do it is drop the Commands (maybe move them to the board), and replace them with Nissa, Worldwaker for additional ramp/devotion (and incidentally, grinding power), which would allow me to cast Emrakul reliably. I may then also want to drop some/all Witness for something else -- maybe Wistful Selkie or Finks.
Thoughts?
I actually quite like Nissa in Green Devotion. I remember when it was first printed, I literally thought it was made JUST for devotion (untapping four Forests...I freaked out ) In a deck with ample Forest's, Nissa becomes very good (often "free" to cast). I do think it is an interesting route to just go as big as possible. Also, Nissa gives yet another grindy card for when the hands don't curve out perfectly (and is it's own form of "card advantage"). I've played with Nissa quite a bit in the past; and actually found the combo of the 4/4 trample lands and Kessig Wolf Run actually came up way more than I thought it would. That, and the combo between Nissa and Garruk can be back-breaking. I think for a Tooth and Nail deck, there is a lot to be said for your "non-fatties" to be planeswalkers.
Has anyone thought about adding a surprise valakut/scapeshift package? I haven't full considered the implications yet, but throwing a bunch of lands on the battlefield via genesis wave has me thinking about valakut. Obviously this isn't a scapeshift deck, so it wouldn't be any sort of consistent combo, but the pieces on their own can be useful, and occasionally a surprise scapeshift could kill someone out of nowhere. The biggest problem is obviously running mountains, which would mean significant changes to the creatures and low drops. One could up the number of stomping grounds to 4 and run the minimum number of mountains (2). Again, you won't be able to consistently "combo" out, but I could see a surprise scapeshift for 3 mountains doing 9 damage out of nowhere being some free kills.
Has anyone thought about adding a surprise valakut/scapeshift package? I haven't full considered the implications yet, but throwing a bunch of lands on the battlefield via genesis wave has me thinking about valakut. Obviously this isn't a scapeshift deck, so it wouldn't be any sort of consistent combo, but the pieces on their own can be useful, and occasionally a surprise scapeshift could kill someone out of nowhere. The biggest problem is obviously running mountains, which would mean significant changes to the creatures and low drops. One could up the number of stomping grounds to 4 and run the minimum number of mountains (2). Again, you won't be able to consistently "combo" out, but I could see a surprise scapeshift for 3 mountains doing 9 damage out of nowhere being some free kills.
It's certainly an interesting idea. I've never thought about it; so I don't know how you would go about it; but I have a feeling Sylvan Scrying would make the cut
Genesis Wave is a super fun and super good card. It's probably one of the major draws to playing this deck.
There are a few reasons why you run it over (or with) Tooth and Nail.
You can cast Genesis Wave for less than Tooth and Nail and still get a lot of value out of it. Genesis wave at 6 mana (X=3) although far from ideal can get you any combination of lands, mana dorks/land enchantments, Courser of Kruphix, Wistful SelkieStrangleroot Geist, etc. Not to mention Eternal Witness! X=4 will get you all the above and add the possibility of Garruk Wildspeaker which may allow you to combo off and wave again, or just put you in a position to be extremely threatening the following turn. Also, if you run a Sarkhan Vol, you give all your creatures +1 and haste and maybe just win on the spot. X=5 is a slightly awkward one but really it will open up Nissa if you run her and just digs an extra card to grab any of the above.
Now, at X=6 we have a comparison with an entwined Tooth and Nail. Gen Wave for 9 (X=6) is probably the sweet spot for most lists. It grabs Primeval Titan which in turn grabs 2 lands. Usually you grab Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx if you didn't have it already, and Kessig Wolf Run. Plus everything else you got off a wave, you might just be able to just kill them or you've advanced your board so much they won't be able to catch up.
It's sort of like, Gen wave is a ramp spell, a pseudo tutor, and a win condition. Tooth and Nail is just a tutor/win con and basically a dead card earlier than gen wave.
Really, if you desperation gen wave for x=3 (cause your hand is bad or they made you discard your primetime,) it could grab you a couple lands and an eternal witness getting back genesis wave or primeval titan and getting you back in the game. stuck on 6 mana with tooth and nail you're pretty much done. Stuck on 7 mana what do you tooth and nail for? Primeval titan and a manadork? Seems pretty not great...
Also, Gen wave as ramp sort of gives you flexibility to run Primal Command as your main tutor, which is a stellar card for 5 mana. Tutor Emrakul gain 7 or tutor Craterhoof Behemoth put a shock land on top of their deck is usually your turn 3-4 set up for a next turn win.
I haven't played around with Tooth and Nail much though. Just seems kind of "all or nothing" with out much play in-between. Depends on the rest of the list of course, but I am a big Genesis Wave fan.
Genesis Wave is a super fun and super good card. It's probably one of the major draws to playing this deck.
There are a few reasons why you run it over (or with) Tooth and Nail.
You can cast Genesis Wave for less than Tooth and Nail and still get a lot of value out of it. Genesis wave at 6 mana (X=3) although far from ideal can get you any combination of lands, mana dorks/land enchantments, Courser of Kruphix, Wistful SelkieStrangleroot Geist, etc. Not to mention Eternal Witness! X=4 will get you all the above and add the possibility of Garruk Wildspeaker which may allow you to combo off and wave again, or just put you in a position to be extremely threatening the following turn. Also, if you run a Sarkhan Vol, you give all your creatures +1 and haste and maybe just win on the spot. X=5 is a slightly awkward one but really it will open up Nissa if you run her and just digs an extra card to grab any of the above.
Now, at X=6 we have a comparison with an entwined Tooth and Nail. Gen Wave for 9 (X=6) is probably the sweet spot for most lists. It grabs Primeval Titan which in turn grabs 2 lands. Usually you grab Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx if you didn't have it already, and Kessig Wolf Run. Plus everything else you got off a wave, you might just be able to just kill them or you've advanced your board so much they won't be able to catch up.
It's sort of like, Gen wave is a ramp spell, a pseudo tutor, and a win condition. Tooth and Nail is just a tutor/win con and basically a dead card earlier than gen wave.
Really, if you desperation gen wave for x=3 (cause your hand is bad or they made you discard your primetime,) it could grab you a couple lands and an eternal witness getting back genesis wave or primeval titan and getting you back in the game. stuck on 6 mana with tooth and nail you're pretty much done. Stuck on 7 mana what do you tooth and nail for? Primeval titan and a manadork? Seems pretty not great...
Also, Gen wave as ramp sort of gives you flexibility to run Primal Command as your main tutor, which is a stellar card for 5 mana. Tutor Emrakul gain 7 or tutor Craterhoof Behemoth put a shock land on top of their deck is usually your turn 3-4 set up for a next turn win.
I haven't played around with Tooth and Nail much though. Just seems kind of "all or nothing" with out much play in-between. Depends on the rest of the list of course, but I am a big Genesis Wave fan.
Tooth and Nail is very much an all-in or nothing generally. There's a bit of play with EWitness and Primal Command but that's generally just to stall into Prime Time + Kessig or Tooth and Nail win.
That being said, I generally Tooth and Nail into Prime Time and Eternal Witness when doing so.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I find the idea of running Nissa interesting. I'll have to try her out, maybe I'll do what destroyer suggested and move all the commands into the board and run nissa in thier place. Ill see how it works out after wednesday.
Curdbros i want to know about your elf list and if u are planning on adding the new spoiler gilt leaf legendary elf that will come out with origins!
Hey All! The primer will have a few updates today; and thanks for reminding me Banchidudle...I needed to post the updated list for a while. I've played hundreds of games since the last post; and a few small changes have arose....I CAN'T WAIT for spoiler season, as every good green card has potential in Green Devotion; and this set (and BFZ for that matter) both also showcase elves...so it is going to be a good period for both green devotion and elf devotion!
1. Tolaria West - This card was added because I felt like between Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Kessig Wolf Run, Cavern of Souls, and Boseiju, Who Shelters All that I had enough utility lands to warrant playing a land tutor. Also, Blue is one of the colors of the deck (Temur) so it isn't awful just to have. Given Cloudstone Curio I also can play it early, bounce it later when I want to transmute for something and do so. It's actually worked out quite well thus far. I went up to 19 lands (was only running 18) because (a) I didn't want to cut any more green mana and (b) Kessig Wolf Run is essentially a win-condition so it acts just as much like "gas" as many of the spells do :). Coiling Oracle and Nissa, Sage Animist have also helped me play multiple lands in one turn (as of course Genesis Wave also does.
2. Dywnen, Gilt-Leaf Daen - Good against Grixis, Affinity, Delver, Infect, Burn, and Control...just a ton of value so I added one to the sideboard. It also helps against all of the -1/-1 spells in the format (Golgari Charm, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Orzhov Pontif, Zealous Persecution, etc.) and when combined with Leyline of Vitality pushes my elves outside of Pyroclasm range (and sometimes even Anger range. Haven't tested it a ton yet, but it has been promising...just a lot of value.
3. Nissa, Vastwood Seer - This was more of a wishful testing She is AMAZING is grindy matches...Cloudstone lets me bounce her to keep grabbing Forests; and she flips quite quickly (especially off a wave). Just not sure if it is worth having in the main (or even the board) for grindy matches (which I am already quite strong against). Most likely won't make the cut; but it really is quite good with Genesis Wave, Cloudstone Curio, and Coiling Oracle...hopefully testing will prove me wrong
4. Kessig Wolf Run - Simply to good not to have in the deck. Amazing win con. With Abundant Growth and Utopia Sprawl there was no reason not to splash red for it. It has won countless matches since it was added. There is nothing better in a big mana deck than mana sinks!
Everything else is close to the same as it was. The deck has been honed quite a bit. Although it's quite complex, my win percentage has been very strong (especially now that I have a really good understanding of how all of the interactions work).
** The sideboard is still a work in process. I have three different sideboards I've been testing (i.e. a different "set" of 15, although some cards are in 2 or 3 of the boards....) I'm trying to see if things like Worship, Pact of Negation, and even Boomerang to have a land-hate board work out...the white based on is good and I just have to decide if I want to splash white...obviously some of the cards in the current sideboard stay in anyways...I'm just trying to see which "type" of board works best (transformational, reactive, hate-based, etc.) **
Currently the sideboard is a bit of a mess. I know my meta reasonably well, so this isn't necessarily what I would take into a larger tournament. That said, I like all the cards except maybe Vexing Shusher and possibly Choke, although it was very good for me.
In the main deck, I couldn't find a fourth utopia sprawl, so I would +1 Utopia Sprawl, -1 Birds of Paradise. I actually really liked birds throughout the entire tournament, and will play with these numbers. Birds is a relevant blocker, is better with craterhoof, and can consistently make red mana. It's obviously much worse than sprawl against bolt/electrolyze decks.
Other card choices are the two manlands. I will say they were very good to me in the 4 rounds played. I never felt screwed by the etb tapped, and having their pressure was strong. I wouldn't want more than these two, since ravine takes a lot of mana and a second red, and neither of them are forests for sprawl. Getting them with Titan is very good, and drawing them early is only bad against hyper aggressive decks (more on that later). One awkward spot to consider is the fact that there's only 1 fetchable red source. In one game I had rending volley up with a fetch, but only ravine in my deck. It ended up not mattering, but I still felt exposed. The bluff is probably strong enough, and I had already volleyed once, so it was a credible threat.
I really like Xenagos as the fifth Garruk. I've seen Karn and other big threats in this spot, but for me, having the extra mana or extra pressure from xenagos is good both when trying to go off and when the board is empty.
Matches
Match 1 against Infect:
Match 1 was against Kyle. He's a good friend of mine who doesn't play modern regularly. I was actually a bit surprised to see him and pinned him on some brew. I kept a reasonable but slow hand, and to my dismay Kyle played a turn 1 glistener elf. I proceeded to label him the fun police as he beat me mercilessly in two games, perhaps 7 turns total. I have no sideboard against infect, and the matchup seems abysmal. Although, to be fair, in game 2 I had the kill on the turn after he killed me. Perhaps sideboard Spellskites and Ghost Quarters can help, but with no other interaction and those two cards slowing down our clock, it just seems very difficult to win. We played several practice games after and I won a couple where he stumbled massively and otherwise had poor draws. I'm not sure if he kept reasonable hands however.
0-1
Match 2 against UWR control:
I've played against Devin several times and knew he was playing counterspells. I went in expecting long grindy games where we traded lots of resources and tried to out card each other. Game 1 he sadly mulliganed to 4 and was a bit tilted. A baloth got pathed, I beat down with selkies and witnesses. He took a few shocks and fetches, and I won a medium long game that he tried to crawl back into but was never able to come back. Game 2 was much closer. I managed to cast an early Thrun which he had to wrath by itself. Me: E Wit, Thrun. Him: Snapcaster, Wrath. Me: E Witness, Thrun. Him: Porphory Nodes. After chewing on several elves, selkies and humans, the nodes finally ate Thrun, but at that point his life total was hurting. Finally I resolved a titan and got the two manlands and he was never able to deal with them permanently.
1-1
Match 3 against burn:
Game 1 I managed to get an early garruk and managed to stabilize a bit. I got a bit aggressive with a baloth, and in the final turns of the game I had a beast and a garruk at 2 and my opponent had a swiftspear and an eidolon. I was at 6, my opponent at 7 with one card in hand. I opted to get aggressive and wolf run my beast and attack for lethal, forcing a block. He blocked with eidolon, went to 2, and untapped and boros charm + attack for lethal. In retrospect I think it was an easy win if I had just made a beast and went for the kill on the following turn. Game 2 was very one sided in my favor. I chained Courser into Finks into Courser into Titan for lands. Game 3 was much closer, but a well timed Primal Command and my opponent missing white for boros charm put me far enough ahead to land another titan to close things.
2-1
Match 4 against grixis twin:
Game 1 I selkied, got a garruk countered, cast E Wit and got garruk online. My first big wave got countered, but my back up landed for 20 and hit craterhoof for the win. Game 2 was grindier, but I was able to rending volley 2 exarchs and a pestermite while I beat down with dorks.
3-1
Wrap Up
I really enjoyed playing this deck and would take it to a local tournament again. It feels like a reasonable fair deck that can grind well but has an unfair combo element. In my playtesting against abzan, I turn 3 genesis waved for ~20. As far as big tournaments are concerned, I think this deck is a reasonable choice, however if you expect a lot of infect or faster uninteractive decks like goryo's or ad nauseum, perhaps choose a more interactive deck. Decks in my meta that I dodged were abzan, tron, and affinity. I'd hope to play them in the future to see how things match up.
This deck is a ton of fun to play, and can be incredibly explosive. Several people in my play group were aware of the deck, but others not so much. One skeptical friend picked it up and after a few goldfishes and huge Genesis Waves he had a big grin on his face.
I have a PPTQ coming up Saturday - it's at a new shop that's only been open since the New Year's, and it attracts a lot of strong players. After dabbling with RB Midrange the last couple months, I missed my Devotion roots and have decided on piloting this 75, which I've had a lot of success with on X-Mage and in real life testing, only losing two matches the whole time, both of those against GR Tron. Some of the success may be due to facing unskilled pilots or whatever, as I'm rather new to using Xmage, but it's my only option for testing at the moment.
Some of the cards may look strange, but there's a purpose. I'm still in the air on Elvish Visionary - perhaps it's "too cute", but the cantrip has been nice to hit off a Genesis Hydra, he's another body for Garruk to give Overrun to, and he provides an excellent mana sink late game along with Temur Sabertooth, but that's likely too cute of an interraction. It's come up only once in testing, that both players are in topdeck mode and I can start doing my best Treasure Trove impression. Treasure Trove sucks, and it's possible that I want this to be an actual card like a Scavenging Ooze or something similar, but I'm not completely giving up on it. It's another easy cut in some matchups after sideboarding, which is convenient to have when something else would be better. The card is quite relevant against Jund and other grindy midrange decks, so I don't know. What other two drop could I main board that has similar effectiveness? Should I play a fourth Leatherback Baloth? I'm torn.
Outpost Siege gives me another powerful 4 drop option on turn two alongside Garruk and Surrak. I've had Outposts win me their share of games all on their own through sheer card advantage. Lategame, they're excellent in a board stall if an opponent is low on life with Dragons mode. That's been relevant 5 times in games so far, and has been the knockout blow. Another strong topdeck late, which is what this deck wants. Perfect card for the style I play for this deck.
Those of you that remember the evolution of my version probably remember me playing Polukranos since Day 1. I have been testing Surrak out instead as a way to apply more pressure, and make my Genesis Hydras even better than they are, and he delivers in spades. He's a must-kill card or the opponent will be buried in tempo between hasty guys and strong spells with big mana turns. He's staying.
Dragonlord Atarka is bonkers. Ridiculous. 7 mana is not unreasonable in this deck. I've had her alone recover me from a Jund start of Thoughtseize, Goyf, Lilliana, Tasigur, wiping their board after a suicide attack into Lilly with a Geist and a Beast token. Big flyers are very relevant in Modern, turns out. Who knew. I'm completely sold on this card. It's staying. I feel silly for ever arguing for Polukranos against her. He can supplement the card well, but between the two, I'd rather play Atarka, as it shows.
The sideboard is very solid and I'm pleased with where it is and how flexible all the spots are.
Amulet Bloom?
Side out Primal Commands, Bonfire of the Damned, Scavenging Ooze, and one more, bring in Vandalblast, Ancient Grudge, Blood Moon, Spellskite, Unravel the Aether, and Reclamation Sage.
Elves? Take out the Primal Commands and Temur Sabertooth, bring in Lightning Bolts, Roast, Scavenging Ooze.
Grixis Control? Get rid of Primal Commands and Bonfires, bring in Roast, Choke, Scooze, Blood Moons, Spellskite.
The deck can effectively fight combo, control and aggro thanks to the very flexible and relevant sideboard options Red offers along with Green's niche answers.
I'm still looking to improve the deck, but I've been very pleased with how the deck's been performing. Sometimes I get a Primal Command Loop going turn 4. Other times, I'm swinging for Lethal on turn 4. The deck's pulling wins out on turn 14 against other grindy midrange strategies (post-sideboard, the Genesis Hydra + Temur Sabertooth interaction wins games on its own to find Blood Moons or Atarka, or Surrak.). Garruk Wildspeaker is still the man.
This approach isn't nearly as flashy or exciting as other devotion strategies, but it offers a lot of room for maneuverability and interesting decision trees if you are skilled at analyzing board states and knowing how many decks operate. I suppose it feels more Blue Collar.
EDIT: Sorry for rambling, but I'll continue anyway
No Primeval Titan or Kessig Wolf Run?! What gives!
I found when I had Wolf Run in my deck, I was getting rid of hands that were otherwise playable because I had a Wolf Run + Nykthos hand, and I'd be forced to mulligan. This is a reason I also run 3 Nykthos - You run 3 of a card when you'd like to see one each game, maybe two. You run 4 of's when you want to see something EVERY game. This deck operates just fine without Nykthos, but can explode with it. Wolf Run would end up turning my opponents' removal into Mana Shorts WAY more often than it was actually winning games on its own. The card didn't do enough, so it had to go. Since cutting down to 3 colorless lands, my mulligans have gone down considerably. This may be confirmation bias, but even changing one card like this ups the green sources by a small margin. If these Devotion decks can cast their spells on curve, the deck's devastating. Wolf Run takes away from our 1 or 2 color consistency by letting us play our spells on time. I believe it weakens the deck, and perhaps for you other pilots out there consider trimming a copy and try adding another basic or fetchland.
No such thing as rambling here! The more info the merrier I'm working on the Tron update the Primer now, but with the new sets coming out and many of the cards not yet explored too much (Surrak HC, etc.) I have quite a bit to add!
... WAY more often than it was actually winning games on its own. The card didn't do enough, so it had to go. Since cutting down to 3 colorless lands, my mulligans have gone down considerably. This may be confirmation bias, but even changing one card like this ups the green sources by a small margin. If these Devotion decks can cast their spells on curve, the deck's devastating. Wolf Run takes away from our 1 or 2 color consistency by letting us play our spells on time. I believe it weakens the deck, and perhaps for you other pilots out there consider trimming a copy and try adding another basic or fetchland.
You're missing three cards mainboard from your list. I assume these are Garruk Wildspeakers?
As far as disliking Temur Sabertooth, have you considered Cloudstone Curio as a way to rebuy ETB triggers? Check out this list from the mothership: link.
In my experience, this deck plays a lot like legacy elves. Sometimes you get awkward draws with multiple Gaea's Cradle's, or it's your only land, but the times when it's good the deck becomes broken. People used to be afraid of running the full four, but now it's accepted as standard, and foolish to not do so. I'm not saying this is a perfect analogy, but I want to maximize the brokenness of this deck, and we do this by generating absurd amounts of mana early. I want to maximize my turn 3-5 ability to generate ~30 mana, and to do that I need a Nykthos. Your deck seems less focused on the degenerate aspect of the deck, not playing genesis wave, not playing quite as many mana symbols in early drops.
I would also agree that if you're not playing manlands or wolf run, then perhaps prime time is not worth it. I really like man lands against control decks however. Getting three threats with one card is often too much for them to deal with.
My strategy for the deck depends on the match up. Against control decks, I assume the beat down role, attacking with small value dorks. Against midrange strategies, I just grow my board until I can overrun with a huge turn of waves. Against aggro, try to stabilize, then land a big threat like primeval titan.
... WAY more often than it was actually winning games on its own. The card didn't do enough, so it had to go. Since cutting down to 3 colorless lands, my mulligans have gone down considerably. This may be confirmation bias, but even changing one card like this ups the green sources by a small margin. If these Devotion decks can cast their spells on curve, the deck's devastating. Wolf Run takes away from our 1 or 2 color consistency by letting us play our spells on time. I believe it weakens the deck, and perhaps for you other pilots out there consider trimming a copy and try adding another basic or fetchland.
You're missing three cards mainboard from your list. I assume these are Garruk Wildspeakers?
As far as disliking Temur Sabertooth, have you considered Cloudstone Curio as a way to rebuy ETB triggers? Check out this list from the mothership: link.
In my experience, this deck plays a lot like legacy elves. Sometimes you get awkward draws with multiple Gaea's Cradle's, or it's your only land, but the times when it's good the deck becomes broken. People used to be afraid of running the full four, but now it's accepted as standard, and foolish to not do so. I'm not saying this is a perfect analogy, but I want to maximize the brokenness of this deck, and we do this by generating absurd amounts of mana early. I want to maximize my turn 3-5 ability to generate ~30 mana, and to do that I need a Nykthos. Your deck seems less focused on the degenerate aspect of the deck, not playing genesis wave, not playing quite as many mana symbols in early drops.
I would also agree that if you're not playing manlands or wolf run, then perhaps prime time is not worth it. I really like man lands against control decks however. Getting three threats with one card is often too much for them to deal with.
My strategy for the deck depends on the match up. Against control decks, I assume the beat down role, attacking with small value dorks. Against midrange strategies, I just grow my board until I can overrun with a huge turn of waves. Against aggro, try to stabilize, then land a big threat like primeval titan.
Great points! I absolutely LOVE playing Cloudstone Curio in devotion. I play my Elf Devotion deck mainly with it; but I also have a straight Green Devotion deck that plays it too. It's just so darn powerful when combined with huge sums of mana and ETB effects. It is something we definitely should be looked into more. Every creature that is printed with an ETB effect makes Cloudstone that much more valuable.
Just look at this card too:
Another potential card to abuse
When this is combined with Chord, buying back cards with Eternal Witness and drawing cards with Visionary, Coiling Oracle (splashing blue), etc....things start to get crazy.
** P.S. They just printed what appears to be "Magistrate of the Pack" which appears to be an Elf with an ETB trigger that causes the opponent to lose life equal to the number of Elves you control..awesome top end to Elf Devotion!!!! **
Another card I like to play with Cloudstone Curio is Genesis Hydra. You just keep bouncing it; digging and grabbing what you want It's like a reusable tutor.
If your having trouble with combo or other quick aggro decks, Shamanic Revelation won't help much unless your running some really early 4 power guys. Even then Command is way better.
I've had a rough time with Burning-Tree Emissarys so they're out. Not sure about 4 coursers but I know running to has been good so I figured I'd try a set. I'll probably regret not running Strangleroot Geists, so I might just find room for a playset in the 75 before tonight. (My Lgs is doing modern instead of standard last fri of every month.)
I'm pretty much guaranteed to have to fight Infect, Goblins/red aggro, and re-animator combo, and maybe hatebears or Abzan?
Hopefully not twin.
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Given that you do have Emrakul main board i think that Nissa would be a good edition, the witnesses fit well with the amount of primeval commands your running but i would drop one just to make room for nissa
8-RackI actually quite like Nissa in Green Devotion. I remember when it was first printed, I literally thought it was made JUST for devotion (untapping four Forests...I freaked out ) In a deck with ample Forest's, Nissa becomes very good (often "free" to cast). I do think it is an interesting route to just go as big as possible. Also, Nissa gives yet another grindy card for when the hands don't curve out perfectly (and is it's own form of "card advantage"). I've played with Nissa quite a bit in the past; and actually found the combo of the 4/4 trample lands and Kessig Wolf Run actually came up way more than I thought it would. That, and the combo between Nissa and Garruk can be back-breaking. I think for a Tooth and Nail deck, there is a lot to be said for your "non-fatties" to be planeswalkers.
It's certainly an interesting idea. I've never thought about it; so I don't know how you would go about it; but I have a feeling Sylvan Scrying would make the cut
There are a few reasons why you run it over (or with) Tooth and Nail.
You can cast Genesis Wave for less than Tooth and Nail and still get a lot of value out of it. Genesis wave at 6 mana (X=3) although far from ideal can get you any combination of lands, mana dorks/land enchantments, Courser of Kruphix, Wistful Selkie Strangleroot Geist, etc. Not to mention Eternal Witness! X=4 will get you all the above and add the possibility of Garruk Wildspeaker which may allow you to combo off and wave again, or just put you in a position to be extremely threatening the following turn. Also, if you run a Sarkhan Vol, you give all your creatures +1 and haste and maybe just win on the spot. X=5 is a slightly awkward one but really it will open up Nissa if you run her and just digs an extra card to grab any of the above.
Now, at X=6 we have a comparison with an entwined Tooth and Nail. Gen Wave for 9 (X=6) is probably the sweet spot for most lists. It grabs Primeval Titan which in turn grabs 2 lands. Usually you grab Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx if you didn't have it already, and Kessig Wolf Run. Plus everything else you got off a wave, you might just be able to just kill them or you've advanced your board so much they won't be able to catch up.
It's sort of like, Gen wave is a ramp spell, a pseudo tutor, and a win condition. Tooth and Nail is just a tutor/win con and basically a dead card earlier than gen wave.
Really, if you desperation gen wave for x=3 (cause your hand is bad or they made you discard your primetime,) it could grab you a couple lands and an eternal witness getting back genesis wave or primeval titan and getting you back in the game. stuck on 6 mana with tooth and nail you're pretty much done. Stuck on 7 mana what do you tooth and nail for? Primeval titan and a manadork? Seems pretty not great...
Also, Gen wave as ramp sort of gives you flexibility to run Primal Command as your main tutor, which is a stellar card for 5 mana. Tutor Emrakul gain 7 or tutor Craterhoof Behemoth put a shock land on top of their deck is usually your turn 3-4 set up for a next turn win.
I haven't played around with Tooth and Nail much though. Just seems kind of "all or nothing" with out much play in-between. Depends on the rest of the list of course, but I am a big Genesis Wave fan.
Tooth and Nail is very much an all-in or nothing generally. There's a bit of play with EWitness and Primal Command but that's generally just to stall into Prime Time + Kessig or Tooth and Nail win.
That being said, I generally Tooth and Nail into Prime Time and Eternal Witness when doing so.
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
Hey All! The primer will have a few updates today; and thanks for reminding me Banchidudle...I needed to post the updated list for a while. I've played hundreds of games since the last post; and a few small changes have arose....I CAN'T WAIT for spoiler season, as every good green card has potential in Green Devotion; and this set (and BFZ for that matter) both also showcase elves...so it is going to be a good period for both green devotion and elf devotion!
Here is the current devotion list:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Coiling Oracle
2x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1x Eternal Witness
Other Permanents
4x Cloudstone Curio
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Genesis Wave
1x Primal Command
Land
5x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Ground
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Tolaria West
3x Cavern of Souls
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4x Leyline of Vitality
3x Beast Within
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Dywenen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
1x Primal Command
1x Flex Spot
Recent Changes/Cards being Tested:
1. Tolaria West - This card was added because I felt like between Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Kessig Wolf Run, Cavern of Souls, and Boseiju, Who Shelters All that I had enough utility lands to warrant playing a land tutor. Also, Blue is one of the colors of the deck (Temur) so it isn't awful just to have. Given Cloudstone Curio I also can play it early, bounce it later when I want to transmute for something and do so. It's actually worked out quite well thus far. I went up to 19 lands (was only running 18) because (a) I didn't want to cut any more green mana and (b) Kessig Wolf Run is essentially a win-condition so it acts just as much like "gas" as many of the spells do :). Coiling Oracle and Nissa, Sage Animist have also helped me play multiple lands in one turn (as of course Genesis Wave also does.
2. Dywnen, Gilt-Leaf Daen - Good against Grixis, Affinity, Delver, Infect, Burn, and Control...just a ton of value so I added one to the sideboard. It also helps against all of the -1/-1 spells in the format (Golgari Charm, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Orzhov Pontif, Zealous Persecution, etc.) and when combined with Leyline of Vitality pushes my elves outside of Pyroclasm range (and sometimes even Anger range. Haven't tested it a ton yet, but it has been promising...just a lot of value.
3. Nissa, Vastwood Seer - This was more of a wishful testing She is AMAZING is grindy matches...Cloudstone lets me bounce her to keep grabbing Forests; and she flips quite quickly (especially off a wave). Just not sure if it is worth having in the main (or even the board) for grindy matches (which I am already quite strong against). Most likely won't make the cut; but it really is quite good with Genesis Wave, Cloudstone Curio, and Coiling Oracle...hopefully testing will prove me wrong
4. Kessig Wolf Run - Simply to good not to have in the deck. Amazing win con. With Abundant Growth and Utopia Sprawl there was no reason not to splash red for it. It has won countless matches since it was added. There is nothing better in a big mana deck than mana sinks!
Everything else is close to the same as it was. The deck has been honed quite a bit. Although it's quite complex, my win percentage has been very strong (especially now that I have a really good understanding of how all of the interactions work).
** The sideboard is still a work in process. I have three different sideboards I've been testing (i.e. a different "set" of 15, although some cards are in 2 or 3 of the boards....) I'm trying to see if things like Worship, Pact of Negation, and even Boomerang to have a land-hate board work out...the white based on is good and I just have to decide if I want to splash white...obviously some of the cards in the current sideboard stay in anyways...I'm just trying to see which "type" of board works best (transformational, reactive, hate-based, etc.) **
Current list
Creatures 25
4 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Eternal Witness
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Leatherback Baloth
2 Primeval Titan
4 Wistful Selkie
Spells 14
4 Genesis Wave
2 Primal Command
3 Utopia Sprawl
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
7 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Treetop Village
1 Raging Ravine
2 Boil
1 Choke
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Rending Volley
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Creeping Corrosion
Currently the sideboard is a bit of a mess. I know my meta reasonably well, so this isn't necessarily what I would take into a larger tournament. That said, I like all the cards except maybe Vexing Shusher and possibly Choke, although it was very good for me.
In the main deck, I couldn't find a fourth utopia sprawl, so I would +1 Utopia Sprawl, -1 Birds of Paradise. I actually really liked birds throughout the entire tournament, and will play with these numbers. Birds is a relevant blocker, is better with craterhoof, and can consistently make red mana. It's obviously much worse than sprawl against bolt/electrolyze decks.
Other card choices are the two manlands. I will say they were very good to me in the 4 rounds played. I never felt screwed by the etb tapped, and having their pressure was strong. I wouldn't want more than these two, since ravine takes a lot of mana and a second red, and neither of them are forests for sprawl. Getting them with Titan is very good, and drawing them early is only bad against hyper aggressive decks (more on that later). One awkward spot to consider is the fact that there's only 1 fetchable red source. In one game I had rending volley up with a fetch, but only ravine in my deck. It ended up not mattering, but I still felt exposed. The bluff is probably strong enough, and I had already volleyed once, so it was a credible threat.
I really like Xenagos as the fifth Garruk. I've seen Karn and other big threats in this spot, but for me, having the extra mana or extra pressure from xenagos is good both when trying to go off and when the board is empty.
Matches
Match 1 against Infect:
Match 1 was against Kyle. He's a good friend of mine who doesn't play modern regularly. I was actually a bit surprised to see him and pinned him on some brew. I kept a reasonable but slow hand, and to my dismay Kyle played a turn 1 glistener elf. I proceeded to label him the fun police as he beat me mercilessly in two games, perhaps 7 turns total. I have no sideboard against infect, and the matchup seems abysmal. Although, to be fair, in game 2 I had the kill on the turn after he killed me. Perhaps sideboard Spellskites and Ghost Quarters can help, but with no other interaction and those two cards slowing down our clock, it just seems very difficult to win. We played several practice games after and I won a couple where he stumbled massively and otherwise had poor draws. I'm not sure if he kept reasonable hands however.
0-1
Match 2 against UWR control:
I've played against Devin several times and knew he was playing counterspells. I went in expecting long grindy games where we traded lots of resources and tried to out card each other. Game 1 he sadly mulliganed to 4 and was a bit tilted. A baloth got pathed, I beat down with selkies and witnesses. He took a few shocks and fetches, and I won a medium long game that he tried to crawl back into but was never able to come back. Game 2 was much closer. I managed to cast an early Thrun which he had to wrath by itself. Me: E Wit, Thrun. Him: Snapcaster, Wrath. Me: E Witness, Thrun. Him: Porphory Nodes. After chewing on several elves, selkies and humans, the nodes finally ate Thrun, but at that point his life total was hurting. Finally I resolved a titan and got the two manlands and he was never able to deal with them permanently.
1-1
Match 3 against burn:
Game 1 I managed to get an early garruk and managed to stabilize a bit. I got a bit aggressive with a baloth, and in the final turns of the game I had a beast and a garruk at 2 and my opponent had a swiftspear and an eidolon. I was at 6, my opponent at 7 with one card in hand. I opted to get aggressive and wolf run my beast and attack for lethal, forcing a block. He blocked with eidolon, went to 2, and untapped and boros charm + attack for lethal. In retrospect I think it was an easy win if I had just made a beast and went for the kill on the following turn. Game 2 was very one sided in my favor. I chained Courser into Finks into Courser into Titan for lands. Game 3 was much closer, but a well timed Primal Command and my opponent missing white for boros charm put me far enough ahead to land another titan to close things.
2-1
Match 4 against grixis twin:
Game 1 I selkied, got a garruk countered, cast E Wit and got garruk online. My first big wave got countered, but my back up landed for 20 and hit craterhoof for the win. Game 2 was grindier, but I was able to rending volley 2 exarchs and a pestermite while I beat down with dorks.
3-1
Wrap Up
I really enjoyed playing this deck and would take it to a local tournament again. It feels like a reasonable fair deck that can grind well but has an unfair combo element. In my playtesting against abzan, I turn 3 genesis waved for ~20. As far as big tournaments are concerned, I think this deck is a reasonable choice, however if you expect a lot of infect or faster uninteractive decks like goryo's or ad nauseum, perhaps choose a more interactive deck. Decks in my meta that I dodged were abzan, tron, and affinity. I'd hope to play them in the future to see how things match up.
This deck is a ton of fun to play, and can be incredibly explosive. Several people in my play group were aware of the deck, but others not so much. One skeptical friend picked it up and after a few goldfishes and huge Genesis Waves he had a big grin on his face.
Can't wait to see the green cards we're going to get!
7 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Stomping Grounds
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Dedicated Ramp
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Fertile Ground
Workhorses
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Leatherback Baloth
2 Eternal Witness
2 Genesis Hydra
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
1 Acidic Slime
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Temur Sabertooth
Haymakers
3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Primal Command
1 Summoner's Pact
2 Outpost Siege
1 Spellskite
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke
2 Blood Moon
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Unravel the AEther
3 Rending Volley
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Vandalblast
1 Roast
Some of the cards may look strange, but there's a purpose. I'm still in the air on Elvish Visionary - perhaps it's "too cute", but the cantrip has been nice to hit off a Genesis Hydra, he's another body for Garruk to give Overrun to, and he provides an excellent mana sink late game along with Temur Sabertooth, but that's likely too cute of an interraction. It's come up only once in testing, that both players are in topdeck mode and I can start doing my best Treasure Trove impression. Treasure Trove sucks, and it's possible that I want this to be an actual card like a Scavenging Ooze or something similar, but I'm not completely giving up on it. It's another easy cut in some matchups after sideboarding, which is convenient to have when something else would be better. The card is quite relevant against Jund and other grindy midrange decks, so I don't know. What other two drop could I main board that has similar effectiveness? Should I play a fourth Leatherback Baloth? I'm torn.
Outpost Siege gives me another powerful 4 drop option on turn two alongside Garruk and Surrak. I've had Outposts win me their share of games all on their own through sheer card advantage. Lategame, they're excellent in a board stall if an opponent is low on life with Dragons mode. That's been relevant 5 times in games so far, and has been the knockout blow. Another strong topdeck late, which is what this deck wants. Perfect card for the style I play for this deck.
Those of you that remember the evolution of my version probably remember me playing Polukranos since Day 1. I have been testing Surrak out instead as a way to apply more pressure, and make my Genesis Hydras even better than they are, and he delivers in spades. He's a must-kill card or the opponent will be buried in tempo between hasty guys and strong spells with big mana turns. He's staying.
Dragonlord Atarka is bonkers. Ridiculous. 7 mana is not unreasonable in this deck. I've had her alone recover me from a Jund start of Thoughtseize, Goyf, Lilliana, Tasigur, wiping their board after a suicide attack into Lilly with a Geist and a Beast token. Big flyers are very relevant in Modern, turns out. Who knew. I'm completely sold on this card. It's staying. I feel silly for ever arguing for Polukranos against her. He can supplement the card well, but between the two, I'd rather play Atarka, as it shows.
The sideboard is very solid and I'm pleased with where it is and how flexible all the spots are.
Amulet Bloom?
Side out Primal Commands, Bonfire of the Damned, Scavenging Ooze, and one more, bring in Vandalblast, Ancient Grudge, Blood Moon, Spellskite, Unravel the Aether, and Reclamation Sage.
Elves? Take out the Primal Commands and Temur Sabertooth, bring in Lightning Bolts, Roast, Scavenging Ooze.
Grixis Control? Get rid of Primal Commands and Bonfires, bring in Roast, Choke, Scooze, Blood Moons, Spellskite.
The deck can effectively fight combo, control and aggro thanks to the very flexible and relevant sideboard options Red offers along with Green's niche answers.
I'm still looking to improve the deck, but I've been very pleased with how the deck's been performing. Sometimes I get a Primal Command Loop going turn 4. Other times, I'm swinging for Lethal on turn 4. The deck's pulling wins out on turn 14 against other grindy midrange strategies (post-sideboard, the Genesis Hydra + Temur Sabertooth interaction wins games on its own to find Blood Moons or Atarka, or Surrak.). Garruk Wildspeaker is still the man.
This approach isn't nearly as flashy or exciting as other devotion strategies, but it offers a lot of room for maneuverability and interesting decision trees if you are skilled at analyzing board states and knowing how many decks operate. I suppose it feels more Blue Collar.
EDIT: Sorry for rambling, but I'll continue anyway
No Primeval Titan or Kessig Wolf Run?! What gives!
I found when I had Wolf Run in my deck, I was getting rid of hands that were otherwise playable because I had a Wolf Run + Nykthos hand, and I'd be forced to mulligan. This is a reason I also run 3 Nykthos - You run 3 of a card when you'd like to see one each game, maybe two. You run 4 of's when you want to see something EVERY game. This deck operates just fine without Nykthos, but can explode with it. Wolf Run would end up turning my opponents' removal into Mana Shorts WAY more often than it was actually winning games on its own. The card didn't do enough, so it had to go. Since cutting down to 3 colorless lands, my mulligans have gone down considerably. This may be confirmation bias, but even changing one card like this ups the green sources by a small margin. If these Devotion decks can cast their spells on curve, the deck's devastating. Wolf Run takes away from our 1 or 2 color consistency by letting us play our spells on time. I believe it weakens the deck, and perhaps for you other pilots out there consider trimming a copy and try adding another basic or fetchland.
You're missing three cards mainboard from your list. I assume these are Garruk Wildspeakers?
As far as disliking Temur Sabertooth, have you considered Cloudstone Curio as a way to rebuy ETB triggers? Check out this list from the mothership: link.
In my experience, this deck plays a lot like legacy elves. Sometimes you get awkward draws with multiple Gaea's Cradle's, or it's your only land, but the times when it's good the deck becomes broken. People used to be afraid of running the full four, but now it's accepted as standard, and foolish to not do so. I'm not saying this is a perfect analogy, but I want to maximize the brokenness of this deck, and we do this by generating absurd amounts of mana early. I want to maximize my turn 3-5 ability to generate ~30 mana, and to do that I need a Nykthos. Your deck seems less focused on the degenerate aspect of the deck, not playing genesis wave, not playing quite as many mana symbols in early drops.
I would also agree that if you're not playing manlands or wolf run, then perhaps prime time is not worth it. I really like man lands against control decks however. Getting three threats with one card is often too much for them to deal with.
My strategy for the deck depends on the match up. Against control decks, I assume the beat down role, attacking with small value dorks. Against midrange strategies, I just grow my board until I can overrun with a huge turn of waves. Against aggro, try to stabilize, then land a big threat like primeval titan.
Great points! I absolutely LOVE playing Cloudstone Curio in devotion. I play my Elf Devotion deck mainly with it; but I also have a straight Green Devotion deck that plays it too. It's just so darn powerful when combined with huge sums of mana and ETB effects. It is something we definitely should be looked into more. Every creature that is printed with an ETB effect makes Cloudstone that much more valuable.
Just look at this card too:
Another potential card to abuse
When this is combined with Chord, buying back cards with Eternal Witness and drawing cards with Visionary, Coiling Oracle (splashing blue), etc....things start to get crazy.
** P.S. They just printed what appears to be "Magistrate of the Pack" which appears to be an Elf with an ETB trigger that causes the opponent to lose life equal to the number of Elves you control..awesome top end to Elf Devotion!!!! **
Here's the list I'm running right now.
10 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
20 Creatures
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Carven Caryatid
2 Eternal Witness
2 Primeval Titan
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Genesis Wave
3 Primal Command
2 Bonfire of the Damned
7 Enchantments
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Abundant Growth
1 Fertile Ground
5 Planeswalkers
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Spellskite
2 Nature's Claim
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Genesis Hydra
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Carven Caryatid
1 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
1 Beast Within
2 Vines of Vastwood
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
I've had a rough time with Burning-Tree Emissarys so they're out. Not sure about 4 coursers but I know running to has been good so I figured I'd try a set. I'll probably regret not running Strangleroot Geists, so I might just find room for a playset in the 75 before tonight. (My Lgs is doing modern instead of standard last fri of every month.)
I'm pretty much guaranteed to have to fight Infect, Goblins/red aggro, and re-animator combo, and maybe hatebears or Abzan?
Hopefully not twin.