If you are playing bellower, you should give unyaro bees a try! So many times I've been able to finish out games because they can't deal with the evasive bees. Usually you have enough mana the following turn to do lethal, and this will help avoid needing kessig... just saying...
If you are playing bellower, you should give unyaro bees a try! So many times I've been able to finish out games because they can't deal with the evasive bees. Usually you have enough mana the following turn to do lethal, and this will help avoid needing kessig... just saying...
I will try it asap!
On Sideboard
I will post the board asap as well. I'm currently trying out Trinisphere to see if that can make life difficult enough for decks like Storm, Cherios, Ad Nauseum (to a lesser extent), and even things like death's shadow. The only decks I feel aren't favorable match ups are the fast combo decks that are more spell based. Affinity and burn can be fast enough game one; but we generally have good answers for them...and for control I've found Genesis Hydra does the trick...Tron can be iffy and is very draw defendant.
What does everyone else think? Which match ups have you found to be tough?
Chord of course opens up some avenues as well; but I want to make sure my answers aren't all 1-of "hate" creature. I'll let you know what I arrive at by tomorrow.
There actually were a few spots where I actually tutored BTE from Woodland Bellower so that I could cast something following it effectively making the "cost" of bellower only 4-mana)...so that was something that was super interesting I hadn't thought about a great deal.
The 2/2 body actually made a difference in a few situations. Nothing huge; but should be pointed out.
It does speed the deck up in certain spots (obviously especially when Nykthos is in play). May be worth it for sure. I will test more and let you know.
@CurdBros
About our Storm and noncreature spell matchups. Well that "noncreature" word is key here. And yes, without hate cards maindeck, our gameplan is to race them. The pact version is fast enough to win turn 3-4, so it happens, but I have Ruric Thar in the mainboard to make those matchups even better. Basically none of the combo decks can win without dealing with a Ruric Thar, except perhaps Ad Nauseum if they already have the pieces in hand. He's also good vs Control matchups. At worst, he's a 6/6 Vigilance Reach, a body that is bigger than almost all creatures we'll see, that's going to hit them for 6 to the face if they want to Path him.
I was trying to figure out why this deck was good enough to place first at a TCG States. Again I'm not sure how many players were at the tournament, or even how competitive the scene is there, but no doubt he played against top Tier decks.
There's one glaring difference between this list and some others I've seen. He runs 4 Courser of Kruphix. I think I underestimated this card. I'm running a list with 4 now, and it's really really good. The body, lifegain, and pseudo card draw, plus the ability to see your top card and know if you should fetch or not can create a lot of value. It doesn't die to bolt or Anger, and it also only dies to a Revolt triggered Fatal Push. It's a replacement for Kitchen Finks and also Nissa, which free up space in the sideboard. As much as I like Nissa, I don't think she's as good as Courser. You can get a lot of value out of him fast. He can't repeatedly chump block a big fatty, and that's the major difference. I can deal with that.
After testing the Bellower list, the deck isn't doing it for me. It quite possible that a Bellower list has the potential to be better than Primeval list, but it doesn't appear that way right now. So I'm sticking with a Primeval Titan list but I will keep Bellower in mind.
I test on Cockatrice, and so I play against a lot of Rogue decks and Tier 2-3 lists. Unfortunately I haven't played against Death's Shadow much at all.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
So, BTE has been really interesting. I have to test to make sure that there is ample card advantage (as this deck kind of relies on it); but the list I'm testing then playinhg in a little 5-round tourney tonight is:
I wanted to wait a little bit and get more reps in before I posted anything about this, but I put together a Devotion/Tooth&Nail hybrid and took it to my first event on Thursday and went 4-0. I can tell you a bit about it and my reasoning, but take it with a grain of salt, as I haven't put too many matches in.
One issue that I had with the Tooth & Nail decks, which you may have picked up on before, was that there was a distinct lack of action in the 3-5 cmc slot of the deck. Others have said that if you draw the "wrong-half" of the deck, you can get screwed. That's just the nature of a combo deck. As such, I decided to smooth out the curve, and give it some more action. After all, all we need is to generate 9 mana, that's something that Devotion does perfectly well...why not fuse the two concepts? I landed on the above. Card choices:
I maintained the core devotion ramp package of Arbor Elf, Birds, Utopia Sprawl and Garruk, that should be self-explanatory. Due to the fact that we skip the 2-cmc slot, I gave a great amount of weight to the 3-cmc slot. I shored up the ground game by including very sticky minions that will give us devotion more consistently. A particularly important card is Carven Caryatid. It has floated around devotion lists for a while, but never really stuck in builds. I find that it is perfect in this sort of mashup, as it is in fact, a combo deck. We don't care about getting in beats, and we want to reach our combo cards as soon as possible. It was a perfect fit, and gave me much needed protection against goyfs, tasigurs, and the like.
I added in a small Eternal Witness-Primal Command package as well. This serves a bit more of a purpose than in normal devotion lists, as tutoring up a creature to hand is actually a very handy use for this deck. If you already have one combo piece in hand, tutoring up the second will allow you to Tooth and Nail for only 7, which is very realistic. The loop also provides meaningful time to stall the game and look for combo pieces.
Overall, the deck plays slower than BTE/Pact devotion. Without interference, those lists can oftentimes get Turn 4 kills with Craterhoof. This one is more of a Turn 5 deck. That being said, it is very consistent. One advantage this has over Pact devotion is that it doesn't necessarily require a sizeable board to get lethal. While it does rely on the combat step, it is not susceptible to removal on the turn you win. It is also very nice to play a deck where if your board is destroyed in a grindy game, you are still live to draw an "oops, I win" card off the top. Furthermore, it feels like every card has weight and purpose. It doesn't rely on nearly as much synergy to string together a win, so that is a good feeling.
Anyways, feel free to try it out yourself if this interests you. I find it a nice change of pace to the all-in devotion lists that I've been playing lately Cheers all!
I've been following CurdBros' discussion of his Green Devotion Value deck for quite a while. I decided to try it out and supplement with ideas given by other users. It was doing decent but there were some areas of it I found... incomplete. The version of the deck I used was Green Devotion Value V3.2.
As I played it more and more I started brewing with it. First off I went down to 2 colors by removing Kiora and all blue sideboard cards. Then I made a decision that the deck should be more resilient and less focused on the "devotion combo" part. I did this because some of the cards there were too fragile. Yes, they did provide value or card advantage, yet it was not enough for me.
Cards I cut are: Wistful Selkie - it was a 3 cmc chumpblocker without Nykthos, Eternal Witness - although it seems like a perfect target for Bellower the only real use I found was returning Genesis Hydra or Walking Ballista when they died tutored by Bellower, also 3 cmc chumpblocker, Polukranos - Fatal Push, without Nykthos its ability was unreliable, Craterhoof Behemoth - I like this card but I found it either "win more" or stuck in my hand because without Nykthos and decent board it was uncastable. This may seem like breaking the core part of devotion decks and it is
After some games I found replacements. Here's my list (still unfinished):
Experimental slots are: Nylea, Spawnwrithe and in sb Groundbreaker, Evolutionary Leap. Every other slot has been tested and proved to be extremly efficient especially Predator Ooze (best card in the deck imo) and Courser of Kruphix. I think about increasing the number of them in the future but first I want to test other mentioned cards.
With construction like that deck turned into midrange. There is no combo, it's less explosive but also much harder to disrupt and has removal even though it's basically mono green deck. The goal is to get a stable board (which is easier than in previous version) and get any mana sink. This way, even without Nykthos, deck is generating constant card advantage which in the long run wins games. I'm very interested what do you think about this list.
I love seeing fresh takes and some new cards/interactions. You may be surprised..but I actually found some of your new cards to be quite interesting.
I'll say the same thing I've said in the past with others (and currently to Renroc with his discussion of Bellower vs. Primeval Titan)...You should absolutely play the deck in the way that best fits and performs for (a) your play-style and (b) your meta. My goal on here is to provide as many interactions and combinations of cards within Devotion that helps us make the best devotion decks for our respective metas (while trying to maintain a focus on the "overall" meta (as outlined by MTG Goldfish and Modern Nexus)
I'll start with the cards that aren't my favorite (at least in my meta and in some cases in the "overall" Modern meta). I fear that Spawnrithe may just be a little too small at a 3-drop. I do understand that it can get a little crazy if it gets through..but I just think there are a few better things we can do at 3-cmc. Predator Ooze is a cool card. It did see play a few years back in some devotion decks...right now; however, it seems just a bit slow. Indestructible does make it a good way to keep some devotion on the board (unless the opponent has Path or other exile effects). It just takes quite some time to get big enough go be relevant. I can see it being great against things like Death's Shadow, etc. (an infinite chump blocker) so I am MUCH less worried about this one than Spawnrithe (It may even be worth a board slot in my deck).
Outside of those; I can understand the use/argument for all of the other cards in the deck. I don't tend to be one of those people that will argue against every card that isn't in my list (I call them the "my deck is the best deck and therefore any single choice that isn't my deck is a bad one..." people )...so I always try to understand why each choice was made.
I actually agree that you don't HAVE to play either Wistful Selkie or Eternal Witness in some green devotion decks. Eternal Witness is a great Bellower target; but if you aren't playing any instants/sorceries you really don't need more than one. A naked 2/1 for 3-cmc is not good; so unless you can get something out of it; in all-permanent decks Witness is just not a good card. You've got Nissa, Vital Force to return permanents...so I think you are actually fine playing no Witnesses in an all-permanent deck. Wistful Selkie, I have to say, is actually a great devotion card. I know it seems weak in the fact that it "just" draws a card and adds green devotion...but in a lot of decks it pushes us into "great" Nykehos range and replacing itself is a big deal. Having said this, those effects are more important in a deck that can utilize the body (i.e. those with Chord, etc.). I can see you not utilizing it if you feel Predator Ooze does more while still meeting the 3-devotion benefit at a 3-drop.
Other random thoughts on your choices:
1. I do think the removal of Kiora currently is the right choice. I removed her too as well. As much as I adore walkers (and think Devotion is probably the single best deck to utilize and optimize planeswalkers); each has its specific use to me; so when the deck changes, so to does my use of walkers (i.e. like when Witness was increased in my list due to utilizing Chord; I had to removal Nissa VF...etc.). I do think, however, that walkers should be exploited and used as much as we can.
2. On that front....I am a big fan of Genesis Hydra with Walkers. Hydra is in my board now; but I do like the interaction between the two (it creates turns where you can generate huge advantage).
3. I actually really like Nylea, God of the Hunt. Mana-sinks are amazing in devotion, and she is often a 6/6 for only 4-mana. And giving Hydra's and other fatties trample is a big deal. I actually think Nylea may be a little underplayed to be honest. In certain match ups she is a house.
4. Jade Mage is honestly kind of interesting here...seems good in a deck that likes to "Go wide". Nissa can pump up all the 1/1's, as can Garruk, and it is great with Craterhoof (I know you don't currently play Hoof...but maybe we'll talk you into it I'm not sure how many situations arise where you wouldn't rather have Duskwatch Recruiter; but if enough exist than I can understand it's addition as a 1-of.
5. While it may not happen often, it is fun to think about playing Groundbreaker with a Evolutionary Leap on board...hit em for six and then sac him for value.
6. I do miss Karn and Nissa Vital Force. Nissa is a powerhouse and Karn is the best "answer" card we have (litearlly just answers anything on the board and/or can re-start the game if need be). I do think they are great cards to have with Hydra...I'd be interested to hear more about Arlinn Kord. Has the haste/vigilance ability been the one you utilze most? I could see that being strong...although the +1/+1 to everyone could be good with Jade and Nissa's plant tokens.
7. I have both Genesis Hydra and Walking Ballista's in my board (currently 3 and 2 copies respectively). I think they are both incredible (and in certain match ups are the best cards we can play)...so I don't see an issue playing those as well.
I do like how many mana-sinks are in your list. I think mana-sinks are HUGE in green devotion. We only win from generating huge sums of mana when we can actually spend the mana. While I'm not behind every choice; I do see how this deck could fair well in a very grindy, fair, meta.
Small Random Update
I'm extremely torn on Elvish Visionary vs. Burning-Tree Emissary in the Chord deck. I personally prefer Visionary (because of my affinity for card draw) but there are some explosive things you can do with BTE (and I even Bellower-tutored for it a few times). BTE is obviously better early with a Nykthos, but Visionary actually helps you dig to get a Nykthos...I just like the idea that Visionary draws a card and then can be tapped for mana via Chord...For me, I think I'm going to play Visionary...but I honestly believe there is an argument for both. Visionary just has helped me in what is a slighly "grindier" and interactive meta. That, and I think I'm just more comfortable playing it. I am, however, going to continue to test with BTE in side games and in our testing sessions (to make sure it is not just a "comfort thing" and to get proficient in all of the lines with BTE in the deck). I can't say that it is a "100% strictly better" situation; so it's going to require more testing.
I've been following CurdBros' discussion of his Green Devotion Value deck for quite a while. I decided to try it out and supplement with ideas given by other users. It was doing decent but there were some areas of it I found... incomplete. The version of the deck I used was Green Devotion Value V3.2.
As I played it more and more I started brewing with it. First off I went down to 2 colors by removing Kiora and all blue sideboard cards. Then I made a decision that the deck should be more resilient and less focused on the "devotion combo" part. I did this because some of the cards there were too fragile. Yes, they did provide value or card advantage, yet it was not enough for me.
Cards I cut are: Wistful Selkie - it was a 3 cmc chumpblocker without Nykthos, Eternal Witness - although it seems like a perfect target for Bellower the only real use I found was returning Genesis Hydra or Walking Ballista when they died tutored by Bellower, also 3 cmc chumpblocker, Polukranos - Fatal Push, without Nykthos its ability was unreliable, Craterhoof Behemoth - I like this card but I found it either "win more" or stuck in my hand because without Nykthos and decent board it was uncastable. This may seem like breaking the core part of devotion decks and it is
After some games I found replacements. Here's my list (still unfinished):
Experimental slots are: Nylea, Spawnwrithe and in sb Groundbreaker, Evolutionary Leap. Every other slot has been tested and proved to be extremly efficient especially Predator Ooze (best card in the deck imo) and Courser of Kruphix. I think about increasing the number of them in the future but first I want to test other mentioned cards.
With construction like that deck turned into midrange. There is no combo, it's less explosive but also much harder to disrupt and has removal even though it's basically mono green deck. The goal is to get a stable board (which is easier than in previous version) and get any mana sink. This way, even without Nykthos, deck is generating constant card advantage which in the long run wins games. I'm very interested what do you think about this list.
I see some good and some bad in here. First off, it sounds like your aversion to some of the traditional devotion cards lies in the fact that you never had enough devotion to do what you wanted consistently. I get that, it happens sometimes. I do agree with your assessment that Selkie and Eternal Witness can be a little slow or useless at times, especially in the face of interaction. Likewise with Polukranos, it can be pushed. These are all things which happen a decent amount, and you shouldn't expect for everything to stick against a real opponent. However, this can be mitigated. Cards like Courser, Strangleroot Geist, Predator Ooze, Kitchen Finks, Carven Caryatid...all of these make it more difficult for your opponent to remove them, and can potentially force them into awkward lines of play. I think you should consider these. As for some of your new additions, I have 4 issues:
I think most people can agree that Spawnwrithe is bad. You don't have a viable way to pump it for combat damage to players. It's just not good.
Arlinn Kord is best in a deck that plays creatures which can go in for damage. However, you do not have almost any creatures that can do that early on in the game. You have 2 Coursers and Predator Ooze's (your MVPs), however that's it. That's not enough for this card to be useful in my eyes, I would probably restructure your threats if you want to make use of her.
Jade Mage and Steel Hellkite are interesting, they both provide good mana sinks. As we all know, mana sinks are a great way for Devotion to get value at different stages of the game, and not feel stuck. That being said...you get the most value when you can activate multiple times for each. This requires a lot of mana. With that much mana, why are you bothering to get incremental value, or pseudo-board wipes when you can just win the game straight up with Craterhoof? I don't know think it's right to consider him a win-more card, he is the most elegant solution to winning the game in a mono-green deck. I think you should give him another try.
I have my final version of Pact Green Devotion, which I think is the best iteration of the deck yet. And I think it's a strong Tier 2 deck now. I'm going to GP Mexico City to get some Sun, beach time and Mexican putas and I'll be playing this deck, so I won't share my decklist until after. I could be playing a different deck, but it's always my style to play a good deck that's played by very few people, if anyone at all. A deck that I can feel is my own brew makes winning much more satisfying.
The deck is fun and the hardest deck I've every played at times, and I've played a lot of decks, because it involves more arithmetic than any other deck.
So, in a competitive Meta, I think Chameleon Colossus is essential to deal with Death's Shadow Jund. It's the best deck in the format and also very popular. It might even be Maindeck worthy instead of Thrun. It's really great with Push and Death's Shadow everywhere.
The one thing I'm unsure of, is if Command is better than Pact. It enables you to deal with Blood Moon Ensnaring Bridge or Planeswalkers. Sure, I can't win out of nowhere with a turn 3 lethal Craterhoof, but the utility of Command is great. Not to mention, Command is potentially absurd vs Death's Shadow. Have them gain life and kill their Death's Shadows. Seems good. I'd be very confident with the Burn matchup as well.
It might be right to replace the Pacts with Commands. I'm not sure about this but I'll have to figure it out before Mexico City. Cheers
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
A little disheartened after my first GPT here in Hawaii. I started off the day 2-0 against soul sisters(2-0) and ad nauseum (surprisingly 2-0 again), but then I ran into a brick wall. Next game was against Jund and game one was super grindy. He was able to deal with all of my threats one after another until he ran out of disruption and I craterhoof for the win. Games 2 and 3 were extremely frustrating as he was able to get goyf and lilli on the battlefield too quick for me to do anything, and he had the perfect amount of disruption to go with it... next match was against a kitchen finks combo deck where again game one I was able to do everything correctly, but then I was mana screwed the next game and couldn't find a finisher fast enough the game after. He was able to turn 4 combo me both games.
My 5th game was against burn and he wiped he floor with me game 1. I had a thragtusk in hand the entire game, but he would prevent life gain each turn I could cast him. Game 2 I was able to cast a turn 3 Elderscale Wurm and survived a massive deflector palm after I played craterhoof. Game 3 I played a turn 4 elderscale wurm that he was able to path, but I already had nissa generating enough tokens to hold off his attacks and once he tapped out I played craterhoof for the win. Deflector palm is terrifying....
So I made it into the Top 8 (7 of 8) and got to play once again the same Jund player. This go around was even more frustrating as I mulled to 6 both games and was stuck on one land for several turns. Game 2 I was stuck with nykthos on the battlefield and unable to cast any spells the entire game, it was sad. I thought I was so prepared for Jund with mainboard Chameleon Collosus and side board blood moons and obstinate baloth, but I never saw a blood moon and he had path ready for Chameleon.
Overall I am happy to have my first Top 8 in the states, but I'm left wondering how to take on so many Jund decks out there running abrupt decay, Lilliana, Goyf, and Push...
A little disheartened after my first GPT here in Hawaii. I started off the day 2-0 against soul sisters(2-0) and ad nauseum (surprisingly 2-0 again), but then I ran into a brick wall. Next game was against Jund and game one was super grindy. He was able to deal with all of my threats one after another until he ran out of disruption and I craterhoof for the win. Games 2 and 3 were extremely frustrating as he was able to get goyf and lilli on the battlefield too quick for me to do anything, and he had the perfect amount of disruption to go with it... next match was against a kitchen finks combo deck where again game one I was able to do everything correctly, but then I was mana screwed the next game and couldn't find a finisher fast enough the game after. He was able to turn 4 combo me both games.
My 5th game was against burn and he wiped he floor with me game 1. I had a thragtusk in hand the entire game, but he would prevent life gain each turn I could cast him. Game 2 I was able to cast a turn 3 Elderscale Wurm and survived a massive deflector palm after I played craterhoof. Game 3 I played a turn 4 elderscale wurm that he was able to path, but I already had nissa generating enough tokens to hold off his attacks and once he tapped out I played craterhoof for the win. Deflector palm is terrifying....
So I made it into the Top 8 (7 of 8) and got to play once again the same Jund player. This go around was even more frustrating as I mulled to 6 both games and was stuck on one land for several turns. Game 2 I was stuck with nykthos on the battlefield and unable to cast any spells the entire game, it was sad. I thought I was so prepared for Jund with mainboard Chameleon Collosus and side board blood moons and obstinate baloth, but I never saw a blood moon and he had path ready for Chameleon.
Overall I am happy to have my first Top 8 in the states, but I'm left wondering how to take on so many Jund decks out there running abrupt decay, Lilliana, Goyf, and Push...
I believe the answer may be Chameleon Colossus or Thrun, the Last Troll. Just don't run any into Liliana without a sacrificial token
I wanted to wait a little bit and get more reps in before I posted anything about this, but I put together a Devotion/Tooth&Nail hybrid and took it to my first event on Thursday and went 4-0. I can tell you a bit about it and my reasoning, but take it with a grain of salt, as I haven't put too many matches in.
One issue that I had with the Tooth & Nail decks, which you may have picked up on before, was that there was a distinct lack of action in the 3-5 cmc slot of the deck. Others have said that if you draw the "wrong-half" of the deck, you can get screwed. That's just the nature of a combo deck. As such, I decided to smooth out the curve, and give it some more action. After all, all we need is to generate 9 mana, that's something that Devotion does perfectly well...why not fuse the two concepts? I landed on the above. Card choices:
I maintained the core devotion ramp package of Arbor Elf, Birds, Utopia Sprawl and Garruk, that should be self-explanatory. Due to the fact that we skip the 2-cmc slot, I gave a great amount of weight to the 3-cmc slot. I shored up the ground game by including very sticky minions that will give us devotion more consistently. A particularly important card is Carven Caryatid. It has floated around devotion lists for a while, but never really stuck in builds. I find that it is perfect in this sort of mashup, as it is in fact, a combo deck. We don't care about getting in beats, and we want to reach our combo cards as soon as possible. It was a perfect fit, and gave me much needed protection against goyfs, tasigurs, and the like.
I added in a small Eternal Witness-Primal Command package as well. This serves a bit more of a purpose than in normal devotion lists, as tutoring up a creature to hand is actually a very handy use for this deck. If you already have one combo piece in hand, tutoring up the second will allow you to Tooth and Nail for only 7, which is very realistic. The loop also provides meaningful time to stall the game and look for combo pieces.
Overall, the deck plays slower than BTE/Pact devotion. Without interference, those lists can oftentimes get Turn 4 kills with Craterhoof. This one is more of a Turn 5 deck. That being said, it is very consistent. One advantage this has over Pact devotion is that it doesn't necessarily require a sizeable board to get lethal. While it does rely on the combat step, it is not susceptible to removal on the turn you win. It is also very nice to play a deck where if your board is destroyed in a grindy game, you are still live to draw an "oops, I win" card off the top. Furthermore, it feels like every card has weight and purpose. It doesn't rely on nearly as much synergy to string together a win, so that is a good feeling.
Anyways, feel free to try it out yourself if this interests you. I find it a nice change of pace to the all-in devotion lists that I've been playing lately Cheers all!
I like it, ATM I am texting platinum TN and and a TN cross Ponza deck. I'd kill to pick Uegjo mind, he see,s to be the pro of TN online
I really like the idea of adding value 3-drops to T&N. It is a very specific deck; but I do feel like it did have kind of a weird "glut" in the middle. Hopefully this works well. As long as you don't take too much away from it's ability to get to 9-mana; I do think that it could be a huge improvement in the current meta.
______
Amonkhet Spoilers start next week!!!! YAY! I absolutely love spoiler season (I consider myself a brewer first; so spoilers always get the creative juices flowing )
_____
Speaking of...
The new Sixth Sense got me thinking of Keen Sense and Walking Ballista. Could this be a "thing" in an enchantment-based devotion deck? (likely WAY to cute...but fun to think about)
Also, the new "Planeswalker Pack" Gideon looks kinda cool (untaps ALL creatures you control)...should stay on our Radar (at least in the periphery for any crazy situations...also could be good in Doubling Season decks if he starts at 5 Loyalty.
I have my final version of Pact Green Devotion, which I think is the best iteration of the deck yet. And I think it's a strong Tier 2 deck now. I'm going to GP Mexico City to get some Sun, beach time and Mexican putas and I'll be playing this deck, so I won't share my decklist until after. I could be playing a different deck, but it's always my style to play a good deck that's played by very few people, if anyone at all. A deck that I can feel is my own brew makes winning much more satisfying.
The deck is fun and the hardest deck I've every played at times, and I've played a lot of decks, because it involves more arithmetic than any other deck.
So, in a competitive Meta, I think Chameleon Colossus is essential to deal with Death's Shadow Jund. It's the best deck in the format and also very popular. It might even be Maindeck worthy instead of Thrun. It's really great with Push and Death's Shadow everywhere.
The one thing I'm unsure of, is if Command is better than Pact. It enables you to deal with Blood Moon Ensnaring Bridge or Planeswalkers. Sure, I can't win out of nowhere with a turn 3 lethal Craterhoof, but the utility of Command is great. Not to mention, Command is potentially absurd vs Death's Shadow. Have them gain life and kill their Death's Shadows. Seems good. I'd be very confident with the Burn matchup as well.
It might be right to replace the Pacts with Commands. I'm not sure about this but I'll have to figure it out before Mexico City. Cheers
Good Luck in Mexico City!!!! Hopefully it proves to be a great choice.
I traditionally see Summoner's Pact and Primal Command to be relatively different cards (and "Pact" lists tend to be a little different from "traditional" or "Command" lists); but I do see what you are saying...and it was super interesting to think about how similar Pact lists can be to Command lists. I'm not 100% sure you could just replace 4 Pacts with 4 Commands and keep a list exactly the same; but to be honest I've never really thought about it. Command is a more versatile card and provides great interaction against many match ups (and many of our tougher match ups). Pact seems to play far more "linear" games (while still allowing for some interaction)...It's actually a really interesting thought. I think you just end up trading speed for interaction. Which is better likely simply depends on who you end up facing. It may be an interesting process to see if certain match ups could literally just "side in" Commmands (and you effectively have a sideboard of 11 cards) if enough bad match ups become "good" or at minimum even with the switch of Pact and Command.
You've got the community behind you. We wish you the best of luck! Let us know how it goes after (and of course an outline of the deck list).
I'm not 100% sure you could just replace 4 Pacts with 4 Commands and keep a list exactly the same; but to be honest I've never really thought about it. Command is a more versatile card and provides great interaction against many match ups (and many of our tougher match ups). Pact seems to play far more "linear" games (while still allowing for some interaction)...It's actually a really interesting thought. I think you just end up trading speed for interaction. Which is better likely simply depends on who you end up facing. It may be an interesting process to see if certain match ups could literally just "side in" Commmands (and you effectively have a sideboard of 11 cards) if enough bad match ups become "good" or at minimum even with the switch of Pact and Command.
Actually a lot of the Command lists and and Pact lists I've seen are nearly identical. I like Pact a lot, because it can get you that answer creature immediately, and also occasionally allows you to force a creature through counterspells by playing multiple spells in a turn. A lot of the time though, what could be answered by a Pactable creature can also be answered by just casting a Command.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I'm not 100% sure you could just replace 4 Pacts with 4 Commands and keep a list exactly the same; but to be honest I've never really thought about it. Command is a more versatile card and provides great interaction against many match ups (and many of our tougher match ups). Pact seems to play far more "linear" games (while still allowing for some interaction)...It's actually a really interesting thought. I think you just end up trading speed for interaction. Which is better likely simply depends on who you end up facing. It may be an interesting process to see if certain match ups could literally just "side in" Commmands (and you effectively have a sideboard of 11 cards) if enough bad match ups become "good" or at minimum even with the switch of Pact and Command.
Actually a lot of the Command lists and and Pact lists I've seen are nearly identical. I like Pact a lot, because it can get you that answer creature immediately, and also occasionally allows you to force a creature through counterspells by playing multiple spells in a turn. A lot of the time though, what could be answered by a Pactable creature can also be answered by just casting a Command.
The lists looks great. It looks strong in the sense that there is a proper answer for every top tier deck in the format right now. I can't wait to hear how you do. I hope the match ups work out and you have the luck that is needed to top 8 a tourney (no flood, screw, etc.). Just know that we are all behind you and willing you to win!
A little disheartened after my first GPT here in Hawaii. I started off the day 2-0 against soul sisters(2-0) and ad nauseum (surprisingly 2-0 again), but then I ran into a brick wall. Next game was against Jund and game one was super grindy. He was able to deal with all of my threats one after another until he ran out of disruption and I craterhoof for the win. Games 2 and 3 were extremely frustrating as he was able to get goyf and lilli on the battlefield too quick for me to do anything, and he had the perfect amount of disruption to go with it... next match was against a kitchen finks combo deck where again game one I was able to do everything correctly, but then I was mana screwed the next game and couldn't find a finisher fast enough the game after. He was able to turn 4 combo me both games.
My 5th game was against burn and he wiped he floor with me game 1. I had a thragtusk in hand the entire game, but he would prevent life gain each turn I could cast him. Game 2 I was able to cast a turn 3 Elderscale Wurm and survived a massive deflector palm after I played craterhoof. Game 3 I played a turn 4 elderscale wurm that he was able to path, but I already had nissa generating enough tokens to hold off his attacks and once he tapped out I played craterhoof for the win. Deflector palm is terrifying....
So I made it into the Top 8 (7 of 8) and got to play once again the same Jund player. This go around was even more frustrating as I mulled to 6 both games and was stuck on one land for several turns. Game 2 I was stuck with nykthos on the battlefield and unable to cast any spells the entire game, it was sad. I thought I was so prepared for Jund with mainboard Chameleon Collosus and side board blood moons and obstinate baloth, but I never saw a blood moon and he had path ready for Chameleon.
Overall I am happy to have my first Top 8 in the states, but I'm left wondering how to take on so many Jund decks out there running abrupt decay, Lilliana, Goyf, and Push...
After the start of "....a little disheartened..." I was waiting to hear about an 0-3 drop, a horrible day, etc....then you go on to say you got a TOP 8!!! haha.
That's is great news...but I do understand what you are saying about Jund.
I tend to work on Jund/Abzan by simply throwing as many permanents at them as possible. A lot of their answers only deal with one card/permanent (Abrupt Decay, Path, Push, Bolt, THougtseize, Inquisition, Maelstrom Pulse, etc.). Of course, they do have some other 2-for-1 cards; but a majority tend to deal with one card very well. Liliana and Lingering Souls can be tough (although Walking Ballista can deal with both those relatively well).
If that is not a possibility, however (i.e. it's not the style of deck you play) I'm sure there are just good cards for the match up. Chameleon Colossus seems like a great start. I've honestly not played a bunch of Thrun in my years playing devotion; so I can't say with certainty that it is great.
I will test Jund and Abzan heavily this week and see if I can find anything else that helps.
Solid list man. I do like your inclusion of Raging Ravine and Acidic Slime, those have done great things for me (slime in the past, Ravine more recently). Hope to see you in the top 8!
I like the idea of whisperwood elemental, I've not gotten around to trying it. Do you ever find yourself changing up your creature lineup to synergize with it? Or is it more of a side bonus? As I understand, ETBs don't trigger when you turn face up, so I'd want something with an activated ability probably.
I'm fairly certain that anything that happens after the flip is still valid (i.e. would trigger) so Finks persist and Marasu's die trigger would still occur. I'm not a judge; but just the way the cards read makes this seem pretty likely.
EDIT..no, if the creatures are still face down nothing would trigger (as they are just 2/2 colorless creatures at that point). This would only apply after they were morphed/flipped over. I thought you meant AFTER they had flipped over.
Yavimaya Dryad is super interesting (especially against things like Jund and Abzan). For those with means of pumping it (Wolf Run, Nylea, etc.) it is nice that it essentially is "unblockable" as long as they have a Forest out (which they almost always will). Yes it dies to everything (but that's not the best argument in Modern)...but at minimum it does tutor out a Forest (so it's never "worth nothing"). Great idea Axel..
I will try it asap!
On Sideboard
I will post the board asap as well. I'm currently trying out Trinisphere to see if that can make life difficult enough for decks like Storm, Cherios, Ad Nauseum (to a lesser extent), and even things like death's shadow. The only decks I feel aren't favorable match ups are the fast combo decks that are more spell based. Affinity and burn can be fast enough game one; but we generally have good answers for them...and for control I've found Genesis Hydra does the trick...Tron can be iffy and is very draw defendant.
What does everyone else think? Which match ups have you found to be tough?
Chord of course opens up some avenues as well; but I want to make sure my answers aren't all 1-of "hate" creature. I'll let you know what I arrive at by tomorrow.
On Burning-Tree Emissary
I've been testing with Burning-Tree Emissary in the slot I currently have Elvish Visionary in. Found a few interesting things:
There actually were a few spots where I actually tutored BTE from Woodland Bellower so that I could cast something following it effectively making the "cost" of bellower only 4-mana)...so that was something that was super interesting I hadn't thought about a great deal.
The 2/2 body actually made a difference in a few situations. Nothing huge; but should be pointed out.
It does speed the deck up in certain spots (obviously especially when Nykthos is in play). May be worth it for sure. I will test more and let you know.
About our Storm and noncreature spell matchups. Well that "noncreature" word is key here. And yes, without hate cards maindeck, our gameplan is to race them. The pact version is fast enough to win turn 3-4, so it happens, but I have Ruric Thar in the mainboard to make those matchups even better. Basically none of the combo decks can win without dealing with a Ruric Thar, except perhaps Ad Nauseum if they already have the pieces in hand. He's also good vs Control matchups. At worst, he's a 6/6 Vigilance Reach, a body that is bigger than almost all creatures we'll see, that's going to hit them for 6 to the face if they want to Path him.
I was trying to figure out why this deck was good enough to place first at a TCG States. Again I'm not sure how many players were at the tournament, or even how competitive the scene is there, but no doubt he played against top Tier decks.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/598606#online
There's one glaring difference between this list and some others I've seen. He runs 4 Courser of Kruphix. I think I underestimated this card. I'm running a list with 4 now, and it's really really good. The body, lifegain, and pseudo card draw, plus the ability to see your top card and know if you should fetch or not can create a lot of value. It doesn't die to bolt or Anger, and it also only dies to a Revolt triggered Fatal Push. It's a replacement for Kitchen Finks and also Nissa, which free up space in the sideboard. As much as I like Nissa, I don't think she's as good as Courser. You can get a lot of value out of him fast. He can't repeatedly chump block a big fatty, and that's the major difference. I can deal with that.
After testing the Bellower list, the deck isn't doing it for me. It quite possible that a Bellower list has the potential to be better than Primeval list, but it doesn't appear that way right now. So I'm sticking with a Primeval Titan list but I will keep Bellower in mind.
I test on Cockatrice, and so I play against a lot of Rogue decks and Tier 2-3 lists. Unfortunately I haven't played against Death's Shadow much at all.
I'm also testing Joraga over Birds.
Current Green Devotion List
Creature 23
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
3 Primeval Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Enchantment 7
3 Oath of Nissa
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Summoner's Pact
Land 21
7 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Raging Ravine
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Primal Command
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Terastodon
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Creeping Mold
1 Creeping Corrosion
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Eternal Witness
2x Wistful Selkie
1x Duskwatch Recruiter
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Flex
3x Woodland Bellower
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalkers
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Instant
4x Chord of Calling
Land
8x Green Fetch Land
6x Foresst
1x Temple Garden
2x Horizon Canopy
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Jade Mage, Predator Ooze, Nylea, God of the Hunt and Spawnwrithe are not good at all (certainly not better than Eternal Witness, Wistful Selkie and Polukranos, World Eater).
Not having a finisher like Craterhoof Behemoth (Steel Hellkite isn't even close as a replacement) is not takning advantage of the whole devotion-ramp adavantage that the deck has going for it in the first place.
I wanted to wait a little bit and get more reps in before I posted anything about this, but I put together a Devotion/Tooth&Nail hybrid and took it to my first event on Thursday and went 4-0. I can tell you a bit about it and my reasoning, but take it with a grain of salt, as I haven't put too many matches in.
Tooth and Devotion:
4 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Carven Caryatid
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Primeval Titan
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Essential
4 Utopia Sprawl
Spells
4 Tooth and Nail
3 Primal Command
1 Harmonize
Land
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Raging Ravine
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
6 Forest
2 Stomping Grounds
One issue that I had with the Tooth & Nail decks, which you may have picked up on before, was that there was a distinct lack of action in the 3-5 cmc slot of the deck. Others have said that if you draw the "wrong-half" of the deck, you can get screwed. That's just the nature of a combo deck. As such, I decided to smooth out the curve, and give it some more action. After all, all we need is to generate 9 mana, that's something that Devotion does perfectly well...why not fuse the two concepts? I landed on the above. Card choices:
I maintained the core devotion ramp package of Arbor Elf, Birds, Utopia Sprawl and Garruk, that should be self-explanatory. Due to the fact that we skip the 2-cmc slot, I gave a great amount of weight to the 3-cmc slot. I shored up the ground game by including very sticky minions that will give us devotion more consistently. A particularly important card is Carven Caryatid. It has floated around devotion lists for a while, but never really stuck in builds. I find that it is perfect in this sort of mashup, as it is in fact, a combo deck. We don't care about getting in beats, and we want to reach our combo cards as soon as possible. It was a perfect fit, and gave me much needed protection against goyfs, tasigurs, and the like.
I added in a small Eternal Witness-Primal Command package as well. This serves a bit more of a purpose than in normal devotion lists, as tutoring up a creature to hand is actually a very handy use for this deck. If you already have one combo piece in hand, tutoring up the second will allow you to Tooth and Nail for only 7, which is very realistic. The loop also provides meaningful time to stall the game and look for combo pieces.
Overall, the deck plays slower than BTE/Pact devotion. Without interference, those lists can oftentimes get Turn 4 kills with Craterhoof. This one is more of a Turn 5 deck. That being said, it is very consistent. One advantage this has over Pact devotion is that it doesn't necessarily require a sizeable board to get lethal. While it does rely on the combat step, it is not susceptible to removal on the turn you win. It is also very nice to play a deck where if your board is destroyed in a grindy game, you are still live to draw an "oops, I win" card off the top. Furthermore, it feels like every card has weight and purpose. It doesn't rely on nearly as much synergy to string together a win, so that is a good feeling.
Anyways, feel free to try it out yourself if this interests you. I find it a nice change of pace to the all-in devotion lists that I've been playing lately Cheers all!
I love seeing fresh takes and some new cards/interactions. You may be surprised..but I actually found some of your new cards to be quite interesting.
I'll say the same thing I've said in the past with others (and currently to Renroc with his discussion of Bellower vs. Primeval Titan)...You should absolutely play the deck in the way that best fits and performs for (a) your play-style and (b) your meta. My goal on here is to provide as many interactions and combinations of cards within Devotion that helps us make the best devotion decks for our respective metas (while trying to maintain a focus on the "overall" meta (as outlined by MTG Goldfish and Modern Nexus)
I'll start with the cards that aren't my favorite (at least in my meta and in some cases in the "overall" Modern meta). I fear that Spawnrithe may just be a little too small at a 3-drop. I do understand that it can get a little crazy if it gets through..but I just think there are a few better things we can do at 3-cmc. Predator Ooze is a cool card. It did see play a few years back in some devotion decks...right now; however, it seems just a bit slow. Indestructible does make it a good way to keep some devotion on the board (unless the opponent has Path or other exile effects). It just takes quite some time to get big enough go be relevant. I can see it being great against things like Death's Shadow, etc. (an infinite chump blocker) so I am MUCH less worried about this one than Spawnrithe (It may even be worth a board slot in my deck).
Outside of those; I can understand the use/argument for all of the other cards in the deck. I don't tend to be one of those people that will argue against every card that isn't in my list (I call them the "my deck is the best deck and therefore any single choice that isn't my deck is a bad one..." people )...so I always try to understand why each choice was made.
I actually agree that you don't HAVE to play either Wistful Selkie or Eternal Witness in some green devotion decks. Eternal Witness is a great Bellower target; but if you aren't playing any instants/sorceries you really don't need more than one. A naked 2/1 for 3-cmc is not good; so unless you can get something out of it; in all-permanent decks Witness is just not a good card. You've got Nissa, Vital Force to return permanents...so I think you are actually fine playing no Witnesses in an all-permanent deck. Wistful Selkie, I have to say, is actually a great devotion card. I know it seems weak in the fact that it "just" draws a card and adds green devotion...but in a lot of decks it pushes us into "great" Nykehos range and replacing itself is a big deal. Having said this, those effects are more important in a deck that can utilize the body (i.e. those with Chord, etc.). I can see you not utilizing it if you feel Predator Ooze does more while still meeting the 3-devotion benefit at a 3-drop.
Other random thoughts on your choices:
1. I do think the removal of Kiora currently is the right choice. I removed her too as well. As much as I adore walkers (and think Devotion is probably the single best deck to utilize and optimize planeswalkers); each has its specific use to me; so when the deck changes, so to does my use of walkers (i.e. like when Witness was increased in my list due to utilizing Chord; I had to removal Nissa VF...etc.). I do think, however, that walkers should be exploited and used as much as we can.
2. On that front....I am a big fan of Genesis Hydra with Walkers. Hydra is in my board now; but I do like the interaction between the two (it creates turns where you can generate huge advantage).
3. I actually really like Nylea, God of the Hunt. Mana-sinks are amazing in devotion, and she is often a 6/6 for only 4-mana. And giving Hydra's and other fatties trample is a big deal. I actually think Nylea may be a little underplayed to be honest. In certain match ups she is a house.
4. Jade Mage is honestly kind of interesting here...seems good in a deck that likes to "Go wide". Nissa can pump up all the 1/1's, as can Garruk, and it is great with Craterhoof (I know you don't currently play Hoof...but maybe we'll talk you into it I'm not sure how many situations arise where you wouldn't rather have Duskwatch Recruiter; but if enough exist than I can understand it's addition as a 1-of.
5. While it may not happen often, it is fun to think about playing Groundbreaker with a Evolutionary Leap on board...hit em for six and then sac him for value.
6. I do miss Karn and Nissa Vital Force. Nissa is a powerhouse and Karn is the best "answer" card we have (litearlly just answers anything on the board and/or can re-start the game if need be). I do think they are great cards to have with Hydra...I'd be interested to hear more about Arlinn Kord. Has the haste/vigilance ability been the one you utilze most? I could see that being strong...although the +1/+1 to everyone could be good with Jade and Nissa's plant tokens.
7. I have both Genesis Hydra and Walking Ballista's in my board (currently 3 and 2 copies respectively). I think they are both incredible (and in certain match ups are the best cards we can play)...so I don't see an issue playing those as well.
I do like how many mana-sinks are in your list. I think mana-sinks are HUGE in green devotion. We only win from generating huge sums of mana when we can actually spend the mana. While I'm not behind every choice; I do see how this deck could fair well in a very grindy, fair, meta.
Small Random Update
I'm extremely torn on Elvish Visionary vs. Burning-Tree Emissary in the Chord deck. I personally prefer Visionary (because of my affinity for card draw) but there are some explosive things you can do with BTE (and I even Bellower-tutored for it a few times). BTE is obviously better early with a Nykthos, but Visionary actually helps you dig to get a Nykthos...I just like the idea that Visionary draws a card and then can be tapped for mana via Chord...For me, I think I'm going to play Visionary...but I honestly believe there is an argument for both. Visionary just has helped me in what is a slighly "grindier" and interactive meta. That, and I think I'm just more comfortable playing it. I am, however, going to continue to test with BTE in side games and in our testing sessions (to make sure it is not just a "comfort thing" and to get proficient in all of the lines with BTE in the deck). I can't say that it is a "100% strictly better" situation; so it's going to require more testing.
I see some good and some bad in here. First off, it sounds like your aversion to some of the traditional devotion cards lies in the fact that you never had enough devotion to do what you wanted consistently. I get that, it happens sometimes. I do agree with your assessment that Selkie and Eternal Witness can be a little slow or useless at times, especially in the face of interaction. Likewise with Polukranos, it can be pushed. These are all things which happen a decent amount, and you shouldn't expect for everything to stick against a real opponent. However, this can be mitigated. Cards like Courser, Strangleroot Geist, Predator Ooze, Kitchen Finks, Carven Caryatid...all of these make it more difficult for your opponent to remove them, and can potentially force them into awkward lines of play. I think you should consider these. As for some of your new additions, I have 4 issues:
1) Spawnwrithe
2) Jade Mage
3) Arlinn Kord
4) Steel Hellkite
I think most people can agree that Spawnwrithe is bad. You don't have a viable way to pump it for combat damage to players. It's just not good.
Arlinn Kord is best in a deck that plays creatures which can go in for damage. However, you do not have almost any creatures that can do that early on in the game. You have 2 Coursers and Predator Ooze's (your MVPs), however that's it. That's not enough for this card to be useful in my eyes, I would probably restructure your threats if you want to make use of her.
Jade Mage and Steel Hellkite are interesting, they both provide good mana sinks. As we all know, mana sinks are a great way for Devotion to get value at different stages of the game, and not feel stuck. That being said...you get the most value when you can activate multiple times for each. This requires a lot of mana. With that much mana, why are you bothering to get incremental value, or pseudo-board wipes when you can just win the game straight up with Craterhoof? I don't know think it's right to consider him a win-more card, he is the most elegant solution to winning the game in a mono-green deck. I think you should give him another try.
The deck is fun and the hardest deck I've every played at times, and I've played a lot of decks, because it involves more arithmetic than any other deck.
So, in a competitive Meta, I think Chameleon Colossus is essential to deal with Death's Shadow Jund. It's the best deck in the format and also very popular. It might even be Maindeck worthy instead of Thrun. It's really great with Push and Death's Shadow everywhere.
The one thing I'm unsure of, is if Command is better than Pact. It enables you to deal with Blood Moon Ensnaring Bridge or Planeswalkers. Sure, I can't win out of nowhere with a turn 3 lethal Craterhoof, but the utility of Command is great. Not to mention, Command is potentially absurd vs Death's Shadow. Have them gain life and kill their Death's Shadows. Seems good. I'd be very confident with the Burn matchup as well.
It might be right to replace the Pacts with Commands. I'm not sure about this but I'll have to figure it out before Mexico City. Cheers
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
My 5th game was against burn and he wiped he floor with me game 1. I had a thragtusk in hand the entire game, but he would prevent life gain each turn I could cast him. Game 2 I was able to cast a turn 3 Elderscale Wurm and survived a massive deflector palm after I played craterhoof. Game 3 I played a turn 4 elderscale wurm that he was able to path, but I already had nissa generating enough tokens to hold off his attacks and once he tapped out I played craterhoof for the win. Deflector palm is terrifying....
So I made it into the Top 8 (7 of 8) and got to play once again the same Jund player. This go around was even more frustrating as I mulled to 6 both games and was stuck on one land for several turns. Game 2 I was stuck with nykthos on the battlefield and unable to cast any spells the entire game, it was sad. I thought I was so prepared for Jund with mainboard Chameleon Collosus and side board blood moons and obstinate baloth, but I never saw a blood moon and he had path ready for Chameleon.
Overall I am happy to have my first Top 8 in the states, but I'm left wondering how to take on so many Jund decks out there running abrupt decay, Lilliana, Goyf, and Push...
I believe the answer may be Chameleon Colossus or Thrun, the Last Troll. Just don't run any into Liliana without a sacrificial token
I like it, ATM I am texting platinum TN and and a TN cross Ponza deck. I'd kill to pick Uegjo mind, he see,s to be the pro of TN online
______
Amonkhet Spoilers start next week!!!! YAY! I absolutely love spoiler season (I consider myself a brewer first; so spoilers always get the creative juices flowing )
_____
Speaking of...
The new Sixth Sense got me thinking of Keen Sense and Walking Ballista. Could this be a "thing" in an enchantment-based devotion deck? (likely WAY to cute...but fun to think about)
Also, the new "Planeswalker Pack" Gideon looks kinda cool (untaps ALL creatures you control)...should stay on our Radar (at least in the periphery for any crazy situations...also could be good in Doubling Season decks if he starts at 5 Loyalty.
Good Luck in Mexico City!!!! Hopefully it proves to be a great choice.
I traditionally see Summoner's Pact and Primal Command to be relatively different cards (and "Pact" lists tend to be a little different from "traditional" or "Command" lists); but I do see what you are saying...and it was super interesting to think about how similar Pact lists can be to Command lists. I'm not 100% sure you could just replace 4 Pacts with 4 Commands and keep a list exactly the same; but to be honest I've never really thought about it. Command is a more versatile card and provides great interaction against many match ups (and many of our tougher match ups). Pact seems to play far more "linear" games (while still allowing for some interaction)...It's actually a really interesting thought. I think you just end up trading speed for interaction. Which is better likely simply depends on who you end up facing. It may be an interesting process to see if certain match ups could literally just "side in" Commmands (and you effectively have a sideboard of 11 cards) if enough bad match ups become "good" or at minimum even with the switch of Pact and Command.
You've got the community behind you. We wish you the best of luck! Let us know how it goes after (and of course an outline of the deck list).
______
Actually a lot of the Command lists and and Pact lists I've seen are nearly identical. I like Pact a lot, because it can get you that answer creature immediately, and also occasionally allows you to force a creature through counterspells by playing multiple spells in a turn. A lot of the time though, what could be answered by a Pactable creature can also be answered by just casting a Command.
Here's my list.
// 23 Creature
4 Arbor Elf
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Eternal Witness
2 Primeval Titan
1 Acidic Slime
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thragtusk
3 Oath of Nissa
4 Utopia Sprawl
// 4 Instant
4 Summoner's Pact
// 21 Land
7 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
// 4 Planeswalker
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
// 1 Sorcery
1 Primal Command
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Terastodon
1 Hornet Queen
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Beast Within
2 Creeping Corrosion
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
The lists looks great. It looks strong in the sense that there is a proper answer for every top tier deck in the format right now. I can't wait to hear how you do. I hope the match ups work out and you have the luck that is needed to top 8 a tourney (no flood, screw, etc.). Just know that we are all behind you and willing you to win!
______
After the start of "....a little disheartened..." I was waiting to hear about an 0-3 drop, a horrible day, etc....then you go on to say you got a TOP 8!!! haha.
That's is great news...but I do understand what you are saying about Jund.
I tend to work on Jund/Abzan by simply throwing as many permanents at them as possible. A lot of their answers only deal with one card/permanent (Abrupt Decay, Path, Push, Bolt, THougtseize, Inquisition, Maelstrom Pulse, etc.). Of course, they do have some other 2-for-1 cards; but a majority tend to deal with one card very well. Liliana and Lingering Souls can be tough (although Walking Ballista can deal with both those relatively well).
Cards like Elvish Visionary, Wistful Selkie, Woodland Bellower, Carven Caryatid, Kitchen Finnks, Eternal Witness, Thragtusk, Genesis Hydra, and Genesis Wave, Planeswalkers, etc. all tend to be good against Jund/Abzan. Waling Ballista can be great in other situations (to knock off their early plays and card advantage). They just get overwhelmed if you can (a) outnumber/out- value them and/or (b) can get a creature on the board that is larger than their creatures early. At that point(s) they just don't have enough answers and you go over the top of them.
If that is not a possibility, however (i.e. it's not the style of deck you play) I'm sure there are just good cards for the match up. Chameleon Colossus seems like a great start. I've honestly not played a bunch of Thrun in my years playing devotion; so I can't say with certainty that it is great.
I will test Jund and Abzan heavily this week and see if I can find anything else that helps.
Solid list man. I do like your inclusion of Raging Ravine and Acidic Slime, those have done great things for me (slime in the past, Ravine more recently). Hope to see you in the top 8!
EDIT..no, if the creatures are still face down nothing would trigger (as they are just 2/2 colorless creatures at that point). This would only apply after they were morphed/flipped over. I thought you meant AFTER they had flipped over.
Yavimaya Dryad is super interesting (especially against things like Jund and Abzan). For those with means of pumping it (Wolf Run, Nylea, etc.) it is nice that it essentially is "unblockable" as long as they have a Forest out (which they almost always will). Yes it dies to everything (but that's not the best argument in Modern)...but at minimum it does tutor out a Forest (so it's never "worth nothing"). Great idea Axel..