I also don't like Genesis Wave decks that don't include Ewit and Behemoth, since I would want to be winning the turn I cast Genesis Wave.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Agree with both of you. I'm not a huge fan of ETB tapped lands (especially Garden) and I'm surprised he didn't add 2x Witnesses. He has the Craterhoof in the board...but I don't really understand why it's not in the main.
It is nice, however, to see Devotion getting a lot more focus than it used to.
My brother just informed me that TCGplayer also has an article that also mentions the Devoted Druid/Vizier of Remedies combo in Green Devotion:
Again, it's just a mention and appears to be Uegjo's deck (or taken from it) but it is still nice to see Devotion getting some more love And he is right...we really are a good shell for the combo.
Hey guys! New to the board, but I’ve been reading the primer for a while. I use what most would consider the “classic” form of this deck (with Primal Command and Genesis Wave being my primary win conditions) and I was wondering: would a copy or two of Boseiju, Who Shelters All be a complete waste of space in the sideboard? I run into a lot of counter-magic in my local meta, and I figured this might give me a chance to fight back. Is it a viable option or is that pesky ETBT clause too much of a risk?
Hey guys,
First time posting here. I’m playing two Devotion list a standard Genesis Wave and a Tooth and Nail. While I do really enjoy Genesis Wave, I find Tooth and Nail so much better and I was wondering why it’s not played much anymore. Genesis Wave has such a bad matchup against quick combo deck like Vizier Company and Storm and the Valakut matchup is not so good either. On the other hand, Tooth and Nail can race those deck with a good hand even if the matchup are defavorable. Plus I don’t see any matchup where Genesis Wave is better than Tooth and Nail. Can you give me your input on that ? Thanks. Here is my 2 lists. I would also appreciate any advice on my lists.
Deck: Tooth and Nail
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:15
1 Walking Ballista
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Voyaging Satyr
3 Eternal Witness
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Thanks Uegjo, I appreciate your input. I agree that Storm is a bad matchup, but I played it so many time with Genesis Wave and it feel worse. DS is tough, but it's one of the reason I'm using BM main (with Valakut, E-Tron, Tron and Control). I also agree with you that Storm and DS are tier 1 deck currently. So what if we try CoTV in sideboard ? Something like this :
Sideboard:15
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Hornet Queen
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Nature's Claim
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Heroic Intervention
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
CoTV on 1 is really rough for DS and we can cast it on 2 with a good hand on turn 2 for Storm. For DS since we have around 8 1 drop, I suggest we cut some Arbor Elf after game 1. Do you think it's a viable option ?
I haven't decided whether to play Fauna Shaman or a 1-of Eldritch Evolution. Fauna is a creature which is big (and can grab a Ballista); but Evolution may be better (as you don't need a creature card in hand.) What do you guys/gals think?
Possible Changes
1. Would like another Whisperwood Elemental somewhere in the 75. It’s great against a lot of match ups.
2. Would like a Nature’s Claim effect in the board (artifact/enchantment destruction not tied to creature).
3. Would like one more small creature removal in the board (I.e. 1-2 drop removal).
4. I go back and forth on a 1-of Garruk, Caller of Beasts...the card is amazing. I just have to find the slot that is least useful.
5. May cut to only 2 Birds...it’s tough though because (a) a 1-drop accelerant is paramount to the deck, and (b) being 3-colors is not easy to ensure access to every color when you need it (every time you need it at the moment you need it).
It’s just a matter of deciding which board cards aren’t necessary/underpowered. I would like to hear everyone’s thoughts on each. I know it seems like a lot; but it really is nitpicking in particular slots where the “function” of the slots remains pretty similar (just deciding on best option).
I’ve also tinkered with a list that is a bit less Chord-centric (with a few copies of Lead the Stampede, many less 1-if’s, etc.) but I haven’t got enough time in on it to say it is worth it or to develop a different board).
Welcome BowAndArrow2 and GreenHedron! I'm so glad you posted. I'm working on upgrading/updating the Primer now; but I'm glad you found us and have found the discussion helpful.
Thanks Uegjo, I appreciate your input. I agree that Storm is a bad matchup, but I played it so many time with Genesis Wave and it feel worse. DS is tough, but it's one of the reason I'm using BM main (with Valakut, E-Tron, Tron and Control). I also agree with you that Storm and DS are tier 1 deck currently. So what if we try CoTV in sideboard ? Something like this :
Sideboard:15
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Hornet Queen
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Nature's Claim
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Heroic Intervention
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
CoTV on 1 is really rough for DS and we can cast it on 2 with a good hand on turn 2 for Storm. For DS since we have around 8 1 drop, I suggest we cut some Arbor Elf after game 1. Do you think it's a viable option ?
Interesting thought on playing Chalice...it’s interesting to think we could use a card that is actually traditionally brought in against us!
I think you COULD build your deck around it; but you run into the issue where you need the 1-CMC spells to cast it quickly (so you kinda want a volume of them to see one on turn 1), but you also “turn them off” with Chalice.
You could do some stuff with Cavern of Souls (play Arbor Elf, Elvish Mystic, Devoted Druid, etc. and name Elf)...and Chalice is definitely good in our bad matchups (and likely not expected by our opponents); but I’m certain it can just be boarded in most Devotion decks...
Having said that, we do tend to play up the curve more than most; and likely would have already casted a 1-drop prior to playing Chalice...so I could be wrong. I havent tried it; so I can’t be certain about how it works in real play. Just my thoughts in theory would say it can be done; but may be clunky in builds that don’t build around it at least marginally.
Eldritch Evolution has been surprisingly strong. I’m not a huge proponent for card “disadvantage” (as you’re technically spending two cards to get one); but when that card is a combo piece or a card that is a 2-for-1 or more...it is powerful.
Thanks for your input and your welcome Curdbros. I have tested CoTV and so far I like it. Against storm the best start would be :
Turn 1 : Arbor Elf
Turn 2 : Utopia Sprawl follow up with CoTV on 2
Against DS we hit so many card from their deck that I don’t mind the draw back. But I’m not sure yet it’s the way to go. I was also thinking Trinisphere. RG Ponza are sometime playing it in SB and it sounds good. What do you guys think ? And thanks for the primer !
Thanks for your input and your welcome Curdbros. I have tested CoTV and so far I like it. Against storm the best start would be :
Turn 1 : Arbor Elf
Turn 2 : Utopia Sprawl follow up with CoTV on 2
Against DS we hit so many card from their deck that I don’t mind the draw back. But I’m not sure yet it’s the way to go. I was also thinking Trinisphere. RG Ponza are sometime playing it in SB and it sounds good. What do you guys think ? And thanks for the primer !
If it works in play I say go for it! I would be happy to try it as well for testing purposes. We are one of the few decks that plays 4-8 drops (MANY decks in Modern play essentially only 1, 2, and 3 drops) so it is possible that we benefit far more than the opponent in many scenarios. If it effectively turns off Storm and Counters Company (I would say these are two of the worst maatch ups we have) than I could absolutely see it (especially if it is part of a sideboarding plan that takes even more advantage of it).
Trinisphere is actually a better call for us. There are very few decks that will reliably suffer more from Chalice on X=1 than us. On X=2 it doesn't hurt us much, but it also doesn't hurt as many foes. Trinisphere on the other hand is easily overcome by lots of excess mana, which we are quite adept at getting. I may test this.
I will also have a tournament report incoming in a few days, when I have time to write it up.
If you guys are making a new Modern Green Devotion deck primer, can you include the Mirrorweave / Primalcrux brew I have as one Go Big casual build?
I am currently brewing / playtesting a turntimber ranger / leyline of vitality plus the new blue enchantment arcane adaptation. The combo is for infinite wolf tokens as allies via arcane adaptation. The wall mana playing like priest of titania makes mana flood easy for both the Turntimber Ranger and Arcane Adaptation to be cast when 3 walls are in play or devotion for 9 is on the board. Genesis wave guarantees waving into the combo with Cyclops of Eternal Fury as haste enabler. If anything else, a Primalcrux plus Mirrorweave combo is one wincon always possible with a creature board and open mana.
I've asked around and it turns out the infinite trigger may be stopped if the opponent burns the Turntimber after the first trigger plays out on the stack so it's a little risky but Temur Sabertooth is there to pull the Ranger back into your hand after the wolves are out there. Eternal Witness to pull it back from the GY if an Arcane Adaptation is still on the board. the leyline of vitality pulls the ranger out of burn range if there are at least two of them in the battlefield, one free at the start of the game and it scales for devotion if there is creature boardwipe, keeping your Nykthos a bomb and not a dead card with no devotion except for Kiora. This decklist may be more resilient to boardwipe given both GY tech and bounce, but I would like to hear more suggestions. Do I need a playset of Genesis Wave just to be more consistent with the explosive wincon? I can add Genesis Hydra to pull out the |Arcane Adaptation then bounce any Ranger. Do you know of any other Green Devotion cards that make tokens or make better scaling with Arcane Adaptation, Dragonlord Dromoka makes all dragons double strike but is a measly 4/4.
If any player were building an aggro combo, blue green devotion hybrid, variations of this build might be a good tweak project. Kiora is to fish for the Turntimber Ranger or the Primalcrux as well as to untap Nykthos. I'm still going for a playset of the Leyline of Vitality because with the combo of Arcane Adaptation and Turntimber Ranger you also gain infinite life or gain back life if you run a token generator build with Hornet Queen and stuff like Nest Invader. Does Doubling Chant look good in a deck like this to place two turntimbers in play for double trigger infinite tokens plus doubling other creatures for primalcrux mirrorweave shenanigans? it sounds a bit ungainly and casual but I'll try to playtest with tougher decks like Jeskai kill everything on the board and burn to see if it can hold it's own. the old kiora build does have a full counterspell suite in the sideboard so that might look good going forward to the final build for this deck
@MirageJenius
What kind of decks do you normally play against? It sounds like a somewhat causal deck, which is totally fine. I do see some good things with the list, and some issues. A couple thoughts:
1) Defender package is good, it has been an option for devotion for a while
2) Turntimber combo is a tight package, however I have a problem with having only 2 adaptions and no way to find them barring Genesis Wave. If you want the combo, you really need all 4, or a lot more cards draw.
3)Leyline of Vitality is not good, I'm sorry to say. While sweet when played on Turn 0, it terrible off the top.
4) Cyclops of Eternal Fury is also bad. For hasty shenanigans I would consider Xenagos, Hammer of Purphoros, or the red Praetor.
6) Manabase needs some tweaking. With no Primeval Titans to fetch your colors, the only way to cast your blue spells or red is with Axebane. Fetches help with this, although if you're on a budget, perhaps some more pain lands or Sylvan Caryatids would help.
I'm intrigued by the use of Mirrorweave as a win con, I think it's very innovative. Primal crux is definitely a sweet target, however you could get blown out by removal. I do see it being a good combo with Carnage Tyrant though. Definitely something to brew with.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
So that list is pretty good, but not my favorite. It made me think about a few things. His sideboard is quite similar to mine, but I run Bonfire of the Damned instead of Kozilek's Return. I don't think Return would be be better than Bonfire since Bonfire is one-sided, and we can make it big fairly easily. I can se Return being better vs. Death and Taxes though.
When I played BTE and Pacts I still drew bad hands with too many pacts, and Pacting for BTE is only a good play I'd imagine if you have a Nykthos in play, or I'd want to save it for my finisher. I don't remember ever Pacting for BTE, and sometimes I think maybe I was playing the deck wrong, but it's not like I wouldn't have seen the line.
I think Chameleon Colossus is great, would love to have it in my deck but I can't find room for it. Carnage Tyrant is better than Thrun, the Last Troll in many ways (but not all) since it can't be countered and is a much better attacker. I think most players won't counter the Pact, and then will regret it when you reveal a Tyrant.
I think his list could really use a Whisperwood Elemental, especially since he's running Return.
I like Garruk Relentless a lot vs. many decks, but I find Garruk, Caller of Beasts is a bit better in general for what this deck wants to be doing.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I play in a meta where they burn every single creature you put down, where burn and jeskai are heavy hitters. If I played a wall devotion build, it might make them hedge their spot removal enough for me to sneak in a boardstate where a Nykthos activation can work. That's why BTE is underwhelming for me because it is only good in a dedicated Gruul build and is a very ugly card to draw midgame as opposed to an axebane guardian with 2 similar mana walls already in play. I expect the opponent to wait to counter a nonexistent assault formation, but the walls plus the Leyline of Vitality hold their own against early game aggro plus gain back life from any early attacker. Here's some questions you may help me and other probable fans of this build
1) I might pack in one more Arcane Adaptation just to get the combo to come out more consistently, and maybe card draw stuff like Wistful Selkie for devotion draw. Adaptation can be a dead card when you do draw multiples early but since it is the main bomb for the deck and I can tweak for additional tribal effects like the Dromoka idea or say Treefolk for Timber Protector. Can you guys think of good stuff tribal green symmetry lords? Hexproof? Forestwalk? or more lords pump effects like Sovereign. Another idea I just got is tribal tutors,fetching either allies or green tribes to put into your hand instead of topdeacking.
2) Leyline of Vitality is underrated because I've had it restore devotion after a board wipe and be able to cast Primal Command to restore a swept board, and for each creature you play again, you gain back life from aggro racing. It is the second combo for the Turntimber Ranger combo with Arcane Adaptation, it nets infinite life and life gain recovery for every wolf trigger that is not responded with a spot removal.
3) I agree with fixing the manabase to be more consistent and I would also want a man-land or two in there in case of board wipe since the Leylines give pumping action or a creature token maker to potentially gain 2 to 4 life per Leyline in play with Nykthos activation helping activate the token generator.
4) What X spell can make a decent amount of tokens with say 4 to 5 mana in the same turn? All I can think of are the Nest Invader and the Kozilek's Predator, just for Leyline life gain in early game trading off or midgame recovery.
Thanks for the heads up and I hope I can make this more than a casual deck with some control elements if I forego some of the Kioras for counterspells.
Leyline isn't good, if you don't start with it, but I see why you care about it resisting mass-removal. Planeswalkers and Gods do as well. You might want to consider Rhonas or Nylea, since anything that breaks through countermagic you can use mana to make a serious threat.
The defender package undermines the match versus sweepers though, because they are effectively NOT threats, and can be ignored. In comparison, BTE can attack, and be pumped by Kessig, Rhonas, or Nylea.
Man-lands are good, and heartily advised. Titan getting two Treetops wins most games.
You may want to have fetchlands and shocklands, if you're trying to play creatures that require colors other than green. Planeswalkers are a bit easier due to Oath of Nissa.
As for a green X spell that goes wide... that's actually difficult. We were discussing it with CurdBros a few days ago, you may recall. It doesn't exist. If you want to make 3+ tokens at once for 4-5 mana, you need to be in white. If pacing is okay, consider Nissa VoZ. She does work well with Leyline, if you insist on keeping that.
So that list is pretty good, but not my favorite. It made me think about a few things. ...
The fact that this relatively old-fashioned Devotion build did well is definitely food for thought. BTE is usually for the hyper-aggressive sorts. He's instead going wide, but has a toolbox package. It's pretty cool. I always feel weird regarding Nissa VoZ, but it seems like if the Craterhoof plan is the main plan, that works fine.
Hey everybody, heads up for Blue Green Devotion players.
Digging around for combo tech for the Turntimber Ranger and Arcane Adaptation to work and auto win and found one more piece, Renegade Doppelganger.
This deck: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/746184#paper has a dedicated Allies build and is not Denvotion but I will try to adapt the Doppelganger for the sure win trigger. I'm just not sure if one must have the Doppelganger onboard already then play Turntimber to run the trigger or if See the Unwritten can be a surprise put two creatures and win the game if an enchantment is already in play. Counter protection main deck may also protect the combo from getting cheap counter stoppage. The Doppelganger triggers the Ranger's ability for a second time to ensure that a gazillion stuff comes into play.
With this in mind I am thinking of using the Xenagos Revels planeswalker for extra mileage for Banefire or any X win con. I guess we're stuck with Hornet Queen as the most viable put 4 more critters into play ETB for the Devotion build.
I'm not sure how you think Turntimber comboes with Doppelgänger. It doesn't have any inifinite combo that o can see.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I like the board as well. As Rendroc stated, it is similar to the red-based boards some of us have been utilizing in non-toolbox lists.
I do think we traditionally are better off with overlapping boards (i.e. where we utilize answers that effect many different games). For instance, I'm finding in my Chord deck that Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is better than most of the "silver bullets" in MANY match ups. I have generally built boards that way in the past; and will focus on doing so here as well (it just works better for me).
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MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
It is nice, however, to see Devotion getting a lot more focus than it used to.
My brother just informed me that TCGplayer also has an article that also mentions the Devoted Druid/Vizier of Remedies combo in Green Devotion:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14238&writer=Adam Yurchick&articledate=10-19-2017
Again, it's just a mention and appears to be Uegjo's deck (or taken from it) but it is still nice to see Devotion getting some more love
First time posting here. I’m playing two Devotion list a standard Genesis Wave and a Tooth and Nail. While I do really enjoy Genesis Wave, I find Tooth and Nail so much better and I was wondering why it’s not played much anymore. Genesis Wave has such a bad matchup against quick combo deck like Vizier Company and Storm and the Valakut matchup is not so good either. On the other hand, Tooth and Nail can race those deck with a good hand even if the matchup are defavorable. Plus I don’t see any matchup where Genesis Wave is better than Tooth and Nail. Can you give me your input on that ? Thanks. Here is my 2 lists. I would also appreciate any advice on my lists.
Deck: Tooth and Nail
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:15
1 Walking Ballista
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Voyaging Satyr
3 Eternal Witness
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells:24
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Blood Moon
4 Overgrowth
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Harmonize
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
Lands:21
9 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:15
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Hornet Queen
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Nature's Claim
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Heroic Intervention
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Deck: Genesis Wave.dec
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:22
2 Walking Ballista
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Acidic Slime
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Hornet Queen
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Spells:17
1 Banefire
1 Oath of Nissa
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Genesis Wave
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Primal Command
1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Lands:21
6 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:15
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Elderscale Wurm
2 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Summoning Trap
Sideboard:15
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Hornet Queen
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Nature's Claim
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Heroic Intervention
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
CoTV on 1 is really rough for DS and we can cast it on 2 with a good hand on turn 2 for Storm. For DS since we have around 8 1 drop, I suggest we cut some Arbor Elf after game 1. Do you think it's a viable option ?
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Elvish Visionary
4x Devoted Druid
1x Vizier of Remedies
1x Duskwatch Recruiter
2x Carven Caryatid
1x Eternal Witness
1x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Whisperwood Elemental
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
2x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Chord of Calling
1x Eldritch Evolution
Lands
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Temple Garden
1x Stomping Ground
6x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Gavony Township
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Kataki, War’s Wage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Tajuru Preserver
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Aven Mindscensor
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Nylea’s Disciple
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3x Genesis Hydra
1x Beast Within
I haven't decided whether to play Fauna Shaman or a 1-of Eldritch Evolution. Fauna is a creature which is big (and can grab a Ballista); but Evolution may be better (as you don't need a creature card in hand.) What do you guys/gals think?
Possible Changes
1. Would like another Whisperwood Elemental somewhere in the 75. It’s great against a lot of match ups.
2. Would like a Nature’s Claim effect in the board (artifact/enchantment destruction not tied to creature).
3. Would like one more small creature removal in the board (I.e. 1-2 drop removal).
4. I go back and forth on a 1-of Garruk, Caller of Beasts...the card is amazing. I just have to find the slot that is least useful.
5. May cut to only 2 Birds...it’s tough though because (a) a 1-drop accelerant is paramount to the deck, and (b) being 3-colors is not easy to ensure access to every color when you need it (every time you need it at the moment you need it).
6. Not sure whether Carven Caryatid or Nissa, Voice of Zendikar is better at the 3-Slot.
It’s just a matter of deciding which board cards aren’t necessary/underpowered. I would like to hear everyone’s thoughts on each. I know it seems like a lot; but it really is nitpicking in particular slots where the “function” of the slots remains pretty similar (just deciding on best option).
I’ve also tinkered with a list that is a bit less Chord-centric (with a few copies of Lead the Stampede, many less 1-if’s, etc.) but I haven’t got enough time in on it to say it is worth it or to develop a different board).
Stampede List
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Elvish Visionary
4x Devoted Druid
1x Vizier of Remedies
1x Duskwatch Recruiter
2x Eternal Witness
1x Whisperwood Elemental
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
2x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Chord of Calling
3x Lead the Stampede
Lands
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Temple Garden
1x Stomping Ground
6x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Gavony Township
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Kataki, War’s Wage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Tajuru Preserver
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Aven Mindscensor
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Nylea’s Disciple
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3x Genesis Hydra
1x Beast Within
Interesting thought on playing Chalice...it’s interesting to think we could use a card that is actually traditionally brought in against us!
I think you COULD build your deck around it; but you run into the issue where you need the 1-CMC spells to cast it quickly (so you kinda want a volume of them to see one on turn 1), but you also “turn them off” with Chalice.
You could do some stuff with Cavern of Souls (play Arbor Elf, Elvish Mystic, Devoted Druid, etc. and name Elf)...and Chalice is definitely good in our bad matchups (and likely not expected by our opponents); but I’m certain it can just be boarded in most Devotion decks...
Having said that, we do tend to play up the curve more than most; and likely would have already casted a 1-drop prior to playing Chalice...so I could be wrong. I havent tried it; so I can’t be certain about how it works in real play. Just my thoughts in theory would say it can be done; but may be clunky in builds that don’t build around it at least marginally.
It is interesting because we play up the curve.
Turn 1 : Arbor Elf
Turn 2 : Utopia Sprawl follow up with CoTV on 2
Against DS we hit so many card from their deck that I don’t mind the draw back. But I’m not sure yet it’s the way to go. I was also thinking Trinisphere. RG Ponza are sometime playing it in SB and it sounds good. What do you guys think ? And thanks for the primer !
If it works in play I say go for it! I would be happy to try it as well for testing purposes. We are one of the few decks that plays 4-8 drops (MANY decks in Modern play essentially only 1, 2, and 3 drops) so it is possible that we benefit far more than the opponent in many scenarios. If it effectively turns off Storm and Counters Company (I would say these are two of the worst maatch ups we have) than I could absolutely see it (especially if it is part of a sideboarding plan that takes even more advantage of it).
I will also have a tournament report incoming in a few days, when I have time to write it up.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I am currently brewing / playtesting a turntimber ranger / leyline of vitality plus the new blue enchantment arcane adaptation. The combo is for infinite wolf tokens as allies via arcane adaptation. The wall mana playing like priest of titania makes mana flood easy for both the Turntimber Ranger and Arcane Adaptation to be cast when 3 walls are in play or devotion for 9 is on the board. Genesis wave guarantees waving into the combo with Cyclops of Eternal Fury as haste enabler. If anything else, a Primalcrux plus Mirrorweave combo is one wincon always possible with a creature board and open mana.
I've asked around and it turns out the infinite trigger may be stopped if the opponent burns the Turntimber after the first trigger plays out on the stack so it's a little risky but Temur Sabertooth is there to pull the Ranger back into your hand after the wolves are out there. Eternal Witness to pull it back from the GY if an Arcane Adaptation is still on the board. the leyline of vitality pulls the ranger out of burn range if there are at least two of them in the battlefield, one free at the start of the game and it scales for devotion if there is creature boardwipe, keeping your Nykthos a bomb and not a dead card with no devotion except for Kiora. This decklist may be more resilient to boardwipe given both GY tech and bounce, but I would like to hear more suggestions. Do I need a playset of Genesis Wave just to be more consistent with the explosive wincon? I can add Genesis Hydra to pull out the |Arcane Adaptation then bounce any Ranger. Do you know of any other Green Devotion cards that make tokens or make better scaling with Arcane Adaptation, Dragonlord Dromoka makes all dragons double strike but is a measly 4/4.
If any player were building an aggro combo, blue green devotion hybrid, variations of this build might be a good tweak project. Kiora is to fish for the Turntimber Ranger or the Primalcrux as well as to untap Nykthos. I'm still going for a playset of the Leyline of Vitality because with the combo of Arcane Adaptation and Turntimber Ranger you also gain infinite life or gain back life if you run a token generator build with Hornet Queen and stuff like Nest Invader. Does Doubling Chant look good in a deck like this to place two turntimbers in play for double trigger infinite tokens plus doubling other creatures for primalcrux mirrorweave shenanigans? it sounds a bit ungainly and casual but I'll try to playtest with tougher decks like Jeskai kill everything on the board and burn to see if it can hold it's own. the old kiora build does have a full counterspell suite in the sideboard so that might look good going forward to the final build for this deck
1x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Overgrown Battlement
4x Axebane Guardian
4x Turntimber Ranger
1x Temur Sabertooth
2x Cyclops of Eternal Fury
2x Eternal Witness
4x Primalcrux
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4x Leyline of Vitality
2x Arcane Adaptation
4x Kiora, Master of Depths
2x Genesis Wave
2x Primal Command
2x Mirrorweave
2x Hinterland Harbor
2x Yavimaya Coast
1x Stomping Ground
12x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
What kind of decks do you normally play against? It sounds like a somewhat causal deck, which is totally fine. I do see some good things with the list, and some issues. A couple thoughts:
1) Defender package is good, it has been an option for devotion for a while
2) Turntimber combo is a tight package, however I have a problem with having only 2 adaptions and no way to find them barring Genesis Wave. If you want the combo, you really need all 4, or a lot more cards draw.
3)Leyline of Vitality is not good, I'm sorry to say. While sweet when played on Turn 0, it terrible off the top.
4) Cyclops of Eternal Fury is also bad. For hasty shenanigans I would consider Xenagos, Hammer of Purphoros, or the red Praetor.
6) Manabase needs some tweaking. With no Primeval Titans to fetch your colors, the only way to cast your blue spells or red is with Axebane. Fetches help with this, although if you're on a budget, perhaps some more pain lands or Sylvan Caryatids would help.
I'm intrigued by the use of Mirrorweave as a win con, I think it's very innovative. Primal crux is definitely a sweet target, however you could get blown out by removal. I do see it being a good combo with Carnage Tyrant though. Definitely something to brew with.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
When I played BTE and Pacts I still drew bad hands with too many pacts, and Pacting for BTE is only a good play I'd imagine if you have a Nykthos in play, or I'd want to save it for my finisher. I don't remember ever Pacting for BTE, and sometimes I think maybe I was playing the deck wrong, but it's not like I wouldn't have seen the line.
I think Chameleon Colossus is great, would love to have it in my deck but I can't find room for it. Carnage Tyrant is better than Thrun, the Last Troll in many ways (but not all) since it can't be countered and is a much better attacker. I think most players won't counter the Pact, and then will regret it when you reveal a Tyrant.
I think his list could really use a Whisperwood Elemental, especially since he's running Return.
I like Garruk Relentless a lot vs. many decks, but I find Garruk, Caller of Beasts is a bit better in general for what this deck wants to be doing.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I play in a meta where they burn every single creature you put down, where burn and jeskai are heavy hitters. If I played a wall devotion build, it might make them hedge their spot removal enough for me to sneak in a boardstate where a Nykthos activation can work. That's why BTE is underwhelming for me because it is only good in a dedicated Gruul build and is a very ugly card to draw midgame as opposed to an axebane guardian with 2 similar mana walls already in play. I expect the opponent to wait to counter a nonexistent assault formation, but the walls plus the Leyline of Vitality hold their own against early game aggro plus gain back life from any early attacker. Here's some questions you may help me and other probable fans of this build
1) I might pack in one more Arcane Adaptation just to get the combo to come out more consistently, and maybe card draw stuff like Wistful Selkie for devotion draw. Adaptation can be a dead card when you do draw multiples early but since it is the main bomb for the deck and I can tweak for additional tribal effects like the Dromoka idea or say Treefolk for Timber Protector. Can you guys think of good stuff tribal green symmetry lords? Hexproof? Forestwalk? or more lords pump effects like Sovereign. Another idea I just got is tribal tutors,fetching either allies or green tribes to put into your hand instead of topdeacking.
2) Leyline of Vitality is underrated because I've had it restore devotion after a board wipe and be able to cast Primal Command to restore a swept board, and for each creature you play again, you gain back life from aggro racing. It is the second combo for the Turntimber Ranger combo with Arcane Adaptation, it nets infinite life and life gain recovery for every wolf trigger that is not responded with a spot removal.
3) I agree with fixing the manabase to be more consistent and I would also want a man-land or two in there in case of board wipe since the Leylines give pumping action or a creature token maker to potentially gain 2 to 4 life per Leyline in play with Nykthos activation helping activate the token generator.
4) What X spell can make a decent amount of tokens with say 4 to 5 mana in the same turn? All I can think of are the Nest Invader and the Kozilek's Predator, just for Leyline life gain in early game trading off or midgame recovery.
Thanks for the heads up and I hope I can make this more than a casual deck with some control elements if I forego some of the Kioras for counterspells.
Leyline isn't good, if you don't start with it, but I see why you care about it resisting mass-removal. Planeswalkers and Gods do as well. You might want to consider Rhonas or Nylea, since anything that breaks through countermagic you can use mana to make a serious threat.
The defender package undermines the match versus sweepers though, because they are effectively NOT threats, and can be ignored. In comparison, BTE can attack, and be pumped by Kessig, Rhonas, or Nylea.
Man-lands are good, and heartily advised. Titan getting two Treetops wins most games.
You may want to have fetchlands and shocklands, if you're trying to play creatures that require colors other than green. Planeswalkers are a bit easier due to Oath of Nissa.
As for a green X spell that goes wide... that's actually difficult. We were discussing it with CurdBros a few days ago, you may recall. It doesn't exist. If you want to make 3+ tokens at once for 4-5 mana, you need to be in white. If pacing is okay, consider Nissa VoZ. She does work well with Leyline, if you insist on keeping that.
The fact that this relatively old-fashioned Devotion build did well is definitely food for thought. BTE is usually for the hyper-aggressive sorts. He's instead going wide, but has a toolbox package. It's pretty cool. I always feel weird regarding Nissa VoZ, but it seems like if the Craterhoof plan is the main plan, that works fine.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Digging around for combo tech for the Turntimber Ranger and Arcane Adaptation to work and auto win and found one more piece, Renegade Doppelganger.
This deck: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/746184#paper has a dedicated Allies build and is not Denvotion but I will try to adapt the Doppelganger for the sure win trigger. I'm just not sure if one must have the Doppelganger onboard already then play Turntimber to run the trigger or if See the Unwritten can be a surprise put two creatures and win the game if an enchantment is already in play. Counter protection main deck may also protect the combo from getting cheap counter stoppage. The Doppelganger triggers the Ranger's ability for a second time to ensure that a gazillion stuff comes into play.
With this in mind I am thinking of using the Xenagos Revels planeswalker for extra mileage for Banefire or any X win con. I guess we're stuck with Hornet Queen as the most viable put 4 more critters into play ETB for the Devotion build.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I do think we traditionally are better off with overlapping boards (i.e. where we utilize answers that effect many different games). For instance, I'm finding in my Chord deck that Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is better than most of the "silver bullets" in MANY match ups. I have generally built boards that way in the past; and will focus on doing so here as well (it just works better for me).