Tooth runs 1 emrakul 1 primetime 1 xenagos. You might run a hornet queen or dragonlord atarka MD for meta reasons but that's it. Using a 4 drop to slowly and conditionally play a 5-6-7 drop or your singleton emrakul is just no. You probably wont have one in hand, and you'd be better off just casting hunting wilds 95% of the time even if you did.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
You could mitigate that downside slightly by playing 4x Summoner's Pact to fetch your payoff cards but I agree that overall the strategy seems pretty sub-optimal.
I'm not certain that Champion of Rhonas is a perfect fit in the Chord builds
I will test it more; but It is so funny how hard it is in Modern to play a creature over 1-CMC that doesn't do anything the moment it enters...ugh.
I do think in a deck with more fatties and less mana-sinks like some T&N builds, or even an entirely new style of Devotion deck build around him (maybe even with another cheat like Madcap Experiment) he could be extremely strong.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Might be worth adding 1 or 2 in creature dense decks, I know my 4 drop slot is pretty bare.
Of note, it says you may use 'mana of any type' rather than 'mana of any colour' so does this give us access to colourless required creatures like Thought-Knot Seer? I wouldn't see myself adding it but good to know regardless.
You gotta play creatures; but a lot of us do already by a pretty heavy margin.
Between this, the eldrazi scion tokens (from Nest Invader), Nykthos and Gavony, and Chord...I MAY be able to play Thought-Knot Seer out of the board now (still tough even with all this).
Truly powerful card engine for us in the right builds...with this, Courser of Kruphix, and Oath of Nissa; we have a way of playing nearly every card off the top of our library (which is often 70%+ of our deck) and creatures/walkers of any color. If we thought brewing was tough before....now we have access to nearly every color (between this, Sprawl, Chord, Oath, etc.)....Even just being able to play Selkie for any type of mana is a great deal...
I like it because it's great for us; but I don't know how many other decks can/will play it outside of Devotion. Its only good in decks that (a) play a very high percentage of creatures, (b) are capable of quickly casting a 4-drop, (c) are willing to cast a 4-drop for "value", and (d) can make use of the "mana of any type" clause outside of Vizier. These are few and far between. It may help us in terms of the price of the card (as there is no obvious home in Standard and we are about the only deck I can think of that would play it in Modern...)
____________
P.S. Tested Champion of Rhonas more...just didn't make the cut :(. Those above were right. The problem wasn't that I didn't have good cards to play off his trigger (I hit Bellower, Witness, etc,) it was that it was just too slow...We really need things that can be taken advantage of immediately. Vizier of the Menageriedoesn't have an "ETB" effect; but his ability can be immediately put to use...that is a big difference (so is the 4-toughness).
I think Champion of Rhonas would take a dedicated deck (one focused on cheating huge cards in that played them in multiples, etc.)...and I imagine it would take a long time to make such a deck well.
Stinks...but I will always test cards (with silly abilities)to make sure. That, and Vizier of the Menagerie certainly takes some of the sting away
I've tested against Deaths Shadow quite a bit...and I think my list plays a little differently than others (so I may not be a lot of help)...they seem to have difficulty with decks that poor chump blockers on the board. We eventually just outclass them and their 1-for-1 removal isn't enough.
I'd advise just playing every value card you have...as it seems to work for me.
I'd like to try 3x Vizier of the Menagerie (I tend to try one more copy than I will likely end up with just to get a feel for the card) so I may try a list with 3x Vizier and 3x Visionary for a bit....but it's likely 2 is a better number in the deck.
_____
I've also been thinking about playing Xenagos, the Reveler (not sure what I would remove). It's just nice having a Gaea's Cradle effect (on top of being able to spit out more 2/2 haster's to fill the board, Convoke, Overrun, etc.)
So I just played a game where I literally cast three creatures off the top of the library in a row on a single turn...Vizier of the Menagerie is outrageous when it works...
I do think it takes a very specific deck. Fortunately, we can be that deck
I'm sincerely thinking of going to 3x Garruk and/or no Nissa so I can have more creatures...between this, Chord, both overrun win-cons, and the way Devotion works in general...the more creatures the merrier! Makes it a little more hateabke...but that's what the board is for
I am excited for the Menagerie! I am NOT excited for the $20 pre-release price!!
When playing with him, I'm thinking we can go down Oath of Nissa's for more conventional creature ramp. Also, I think it could increase the relevance of Flash creatures or enablers in the deck, such as Yeva, Nature's Herald or Prophet of Kruphix. Exciting!
I am excited for the Menagerie! I am NOT excited for the $20 pre-release price!!
When playing with him, I'm thinking we can go down Oath of Nissa's for more conventional creature ramp. Also, I think it could increase the relevance of Flash creatures or enablers in the deck, such as Yeva, Nature's Herald or Prophet of Kruphix. Exciting!
You can still get em for $9 on SCG pre-order. Got mine for $8; but I was honestly expecting it to be like $10+
I'm not convinced by the vizier but it certainly looks like if it is good in any deck at all, then green devotion is the perfect deck for it.
I have been doing a lot of testing with my build of the collected company devotion list that has been posted here a while ago.
One of thte things that i added and which improved the deck greatly in my oppinion is lotus cobra.
Also i cut the red from the deck completly and went for straight G/W.
My 2nd fattie besides craterhoof is Elesh Norn.
I can post my current list tomorrow if you'd like.
I'd love to see it! My brother keeps pushing me to play Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as well...I'd love to hear how it plays. Lotus Cobra is interesting idea in that deck. Can generate more than one mana per turn (which is big).
Thalia has been a good board card against some of our tougher matchups. I can convoke her; so it takes away the downside there...Garruk still costs one more (but I tend to side out 1-3 of them depending on the match up).
I'm interested to hear more about Lotus Cobra 🐍 . I'm not sure it's better than Nest Invader in a Chord build....but it really got me thinking...it generates mana without tapping so it could be a good choice to convoke AND generate mana in the same turn. It's tough to replace BTE in a Pact build); but in the Chord build I could see it being great. Obviously, in the Collected Devotion build I trust your assessment as someone whose played the deck consistently that it's a great fit.
There is absolutely no doubt I will be playing this card. I will build around it if it doesn't fit in the Chord deck...I couldn't love this more than I do
The possibilities seem endless...makes me really want to play infinite walkers again...her ult even untaps just "lands" (so could work with Nykthos)...and THEN put your entire deck on the board.
But outside of combo...it's just a powerful engine with a mana-sink potential...seems unbelievable to me.
There is absolutely no doubt I will be playing this card. I will build around it if it doesn't fit in the Chord deck...I couldn't love this more than I do
The possibilities seem endless...makes me really want to play infinite walkers again...her ult even untaps just "lands" (so could work with Nykthos)...and THEN put your entire deck on the board.
But outside of combo...it's just a powerful engine with a mana-sink potential...seems unbelievable to me.
I just wanted to post this. She seems incredible in our deck, we can get loads of mana in no time and her scry-ability no only digs for the right creatures to put into our hands, but we can double dip with two big creatures in a turn. I'm going to test her out for sure.
Oh damn, we are really getting spoiled now. I'm really, really looking forward to the release of Amonkhet. First we almost got nothing and now we are just getting Overrun with amazing cards.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I think Nissa is the card I've been waiting for to make my dreams of splash blue walker devotion happen
<3
^^This...I couldn't have designed a better walker...and blue was always a great splash for the Walker devotion deck. I've already started brewing I'm so excited. Makes me feel like walker devotion can be a think again! That...and it's probably just good for other devotion decks in general.
T2: Forest -> Utopia Sprawl on untapped, choose blue. Tap/A Elf, play Garruk Wildspeaker. Untap lands. Play Wistful Selkie. Draw a card.
T3: Play Nykthos. Make mana with GWS and A Elf, and Nykthos. Gives you 15G and 2U. Play her for X = 10 and have 5G mana left over to do whatever you want? Animate lands and bash in for 10. Or make more G mana from untapping Nykthos and the U Sprawled land. Gives you another 8G for 13G total, casting G Wave (X=10), Entwined Tooth and Nail, Genesis Hydra (X = 11).
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Tooth runs 1 emrakul 1 primetime 1 xenagos. You might run a hornet queen or dragonlord atarka MD for meta reasons but that's it. Using a 4 drop to slowly and conditionally play a 5-6-7 drop or your singleton emrakul is just no. You probably wont have one in hand, and you'd be better off just casting hunting wilds 95% of the time even if you did.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I will test it more; but It is so funny how hard it is in Modern to play a creature over 1-CMC that doesn't do anything the moment it enters...ugh.
I do think in a deck with more fatties and less mana-sinks like some T&N builds, or even an entirely new style of Devotion deck build around him (maybe even with another cheat like Madcap Experiment) he could be extremely strong.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Part Courser of Kruphix, part Oath of Nissa. Not good on the devotion front but I dig that it's got 4 toughness.
Might be worth adding 1 or 2 in creature dense decks, I know my 4 drop slot is pretty bare.
Of note, it says you may use 'mana of any type' rather than 'mana of any colour' so does this give us access to colourless required creatures like Thought-Knot Seer? I wouldn't see myself adding it but good to know regardless.
Well....we got our card...insane.
You gotta play creatures; but a lot of us do already by a pretty heavy margin.
Between this, the eldrazi scion tokens (from Nest Invader), Nykthos and Gavony, and Chord...I MAY be able to play Thought-Knot Seer out of the board now (still tough even with all this).
Truly powerful card engine for us in the right builds...with this, Courser of Kruphix, and Oath of Nissa; we have a way of playing nearly every card off the top of our library (which is often 70%+ of our deck) and creatures/walkers of any color. If we thought brewing was tough before....now we have access to nearly every color (between this, Sprawl, Chord, Oath, etc.)....Even just being able to play Selkie for any type of mana is a great deal...
I like it because it's great for us; but I don't know how many other decks can/will play it outside of Devotion. Its only good in decks that (a) play a very high percentage of creatures, (b) are capable of quickly casting a 4-drop, (c) are willing to cast a 4-drop for "value", and (d) can make use of the "mana of any type" clause outside of Vizier. These are few and far between. It may help us in terms of the price of the card (as there is no obvious home in Standard and we are about the only deck I can think of that would play it in Modern...)
____________
P.S. Tested Champion of Rhonas more...just didn't make the cut :(. Those above were right. The problem wasn't that I didn't have good cards to play off his trigger (I hit Bellower, Witness, etc,) it was that it was just too slow...We really need things that can be taken advantage of immediately. Vizier of the Menageriedoesn't have an "ETB" effect; but his ability can be immediately put to use...that is a big difference (so is the 4-toughness).
I think Champion of Rhonas would take a dedicated deck (one focused on cheating huge cards in that played them in multiples, etc.)...and I imagine it would take a long time to make such a deck well.
Stinks...but I will always test cards (with silly abilities)to make sure. That, and Vizier of the Menagerie certainly takes some of the sting away
I've tested against Deaths Shadow quite a bit...and I think my list plays a little differently than others (so I may not be a lot of help)...they seem to have difficulty with decks that poor chump blockers on the board. We eventually just outclass them and their 1-for-1 removal isn't enough.
I'd advise just playing every value card you have...as it seems to work for me.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Nest Invader
2x Eternal Witness
2x Wistful Selkie
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Vizier of the Menagerie
1x Walking Ballista
2x Woodland Bellower
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Hornet Queen
4x Utopia Sprawl
Planeswalkers
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Instants
4x Chord of Calling
Lands
8x Green Fetch Land
6x Forest
1x Temple Garden
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Reclamation Sage
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Lush Growth
2x Genesis Hydra
1x Loaming Shaman
1x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Walking Ballista
I'd like to try 3x Vizier of the Menagerie (I tend to try one more copy than I will likely end up with just to get a feel for the card) so I may try a list with 3x Vizier and 3x Visionary for a bit....but it's likely 2 is a better number in the deck.
_____
I've also been thinking about playing Xenagos, the Reveler (not sure what I would remove). It's just nice having a Gaea's Cradle effect (on top of being able to spit out more 2/2 haster's to fill the board, Convoke, Overrun, etc.)
I do think it takes a very specific deck. Fortunately, we can be that deck
I'm sincerely thinking of going to 3x Garruk and/or no Nissa so I can have more creatures...between this, Chord, both overrun win-cons, and the way Devotion works in general...the more creatures the merrier! Makes it a little more hateabke...but that's what the board is for
When playing with him, I'm thinking we can go down Oath of Nissa's for more conventional creature ramp. Also, I think it could increase the relevance of Flash creatures or enablers in the deck, such as Yeva, Nature's Herald or Prophet of Kruphix. Exciting!
You can still get em for $9 on SCG pre-order. Got mine for $8; but I was honestly expecting it to be like $10+
I'd love to see it! My brother keeps pushing me to play Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as well...I'd love to hear how it plays. Lotus Cobra is interesting idea in that deck. Can generate more than one mana per turn (which is big).
____
I'm trying out Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as well:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Nest Invader
2x Eternal Witness
2x Wistful Selkie
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Vizier of the Menagerie
1x Walking Ballista
2x Woodland Bellower
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Hornet Queen
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Utopia Sprawl
Planeswalkers
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
Instants
4x Chord of Calling
Lands
8x Green Fetch Land
6x Forest.
1x Temple Garden
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Reclamation Sage
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Lush Growth
1x Genesis Hydra
1x Loaming Shaman
1x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Walking Ballista
Thalia has been a good board card against some of our tougher matchups. I can convoke her; so it takes away the downside there...Garruk still costs one more (but I tend to side out 1-3 of them depending on the match up).
I'm interested to hear more about Lotus Cobra 🐍 . I'm not sure it's better than Nest Invader in a Chord build....but it really got me thinking...it generates mana without tapping so it could be a good choice to convoke AND generate mana in the same turn. It's tough to replace BTE in a Pact build); but in the Chord build I could see it being great. Obviously, in the Collected Devotion build I trust your assessment as someone whose played the deck consistently that it's a great fit.
OH MY GOD
There is absolutely no doubt I will be playing this card. I will build around it if it doesn't fit in the Chord deck...I couldn't love this more than I do
The possibilities seem endless...makes me really want to play infinite walkers again...her ult even untaps just "lands" (so could work with Nykthos)...and THEN put your entire deck on the board.
But outside of combo...it's just a powerful engine with a mana-sink potential...seems unbelievable to me.
I just wanted to post this. She seems incredible in our deck, we can get loads of mana in no time and her scry-ability no only digs for the right creatures to put into our hands, but we can double dip with two big creatures in a turn. I'm going to test her out for sure.
SOOO Many good cards in the last two days...
His ability creates the 4-power you need to make him a 3-drop 5/5 deathtouch...
I'm a little more excited for Nissa (no surprise to anyone here
** EDIT ** Added English Version
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
<3
^^This...I couldn't have designed a better walker...and blue was always a great splash for the Walker devotion deck. I've already started brewing I'm so excited. Makes me feel like walker devotion can be a think again! That...and it's probably just good for other devotion decks in general.
T1: Forest -> Arbor Elf
T2: Forest -> Utopia Sprawl on untapped, choose blue. Tap/A Elf, play Garruk Wildspeaker. Untap lands. Play Wistful Selkie. Draw a card.
T3: Play Nykthos. Make mana with GWS and A Elf, and Nykthos. Gives you 15G and 2U. Play her for X = 10 and have 5G mana left over to do whatever you want? Animate lands and bash in for 10. Or make more G mana from untapping Nykthos and the U Sprawled land. Gives you another 8G for 13G total, casting G Wave (X=10), Entwined Tooth and Nail, Genesis Hydra (X = 11).