@JavishaJai: nice list. The only major tweaks I'd have are not using Visionary (Abundant Growth seems a better cantrip, if needed), Nylea being weaker than other choices, and adding Witnesses to chain Waves.
I'm not sure I understand the chaining of Genesis Wave. I can see that if you keep an E. Witness in hand you could get G-wave back the next turn. If Eternal Witness is revealed off a Genesis Wave, can it bring back the same Wave used to put it out when it enters the battlefield?
I suppose the fundamental rules question is this: When an instant/sorcery starts to resolve off the stack, does it go to the graveyard before or after it's effects happen?
That's definitely an interesting list. There's a couple of things I am not keen on though. The biggest problem I am having in playetests with the Eidolon is that it feels like a "build around me" creature but doesn't really have the stats to back it up. You don't want to end up with a deck that won't be synergistic unless 1/60 cards is on the battlefield. The two Elvish Visionaries seem a little clunky - You have enough draw in the 4x Eidolon to merit taking them out for two more geists, giving you more devotion and stall power in one.
I like the use of Rancor. Like you said, this with Xenagod is a Genesis Wave powerhouse. For this same reason though I dont like Nylea and Xenagod together. Rancor seems like a better Trample giver and keeps your curve lower. I am also not a huge fan of fertile ground but that's just personal opinion. I don't like putting all of my eggs in one basket. Just be careful you are not putting in extra enchantments just because of the Eidolon. As nice as draw power is it wont win the game on its own.
Good advice on the Visionaries. Strangleroot Geist is a very powerful card. It reminded me of my casual modern green deck that runs 4 Geists and 4 Rancor. That combo is unbelievable! This deck can manage a turn 2 Geist with a Rancor on it with only one ramp card on turn 1. 4 Trample haste damage turn 2. If they kill it, then 5 trample haste damage on turn 3. It can even eat some early Tarmogoyfs for breakfast while coming back for more. I've noticed that some games my opponent can afford to continuously let Geist through and race me to win or draw a Path to Exile. They won't be able to race 4 trample damage every turn though. It will force them to interact with it or loose quickly. Also note that with a Geist/Rancor combo you are almost guaranteed to keep 3 devotion on the field for at least a couple of turns.
Fertile Growth is an excellent card and I would encourage more people to try it as a one of. It has saved me more than a couple of games in fact. I sometimes run into situations where the opponent has killed all my early mana dorks I used to get out Garruk, Wildspeaker with only 2 or 3 land. Only an enchant land card can pull us out of this or other similar sticky situations, and it has for me. It has also saved my butt when I wanted to cast an early Xenagos the Reveler but had no other red sources. Unlike Birds or Arbor Elf, this card can help pay for itself the turn it comes out. If we have a Nykthos on the board, the card can be played for "free" as it adds one devotion and one mana. You mention land destruction, and yes we must be wary of that. There are ways to play around it however. I don't believe most decks play land destruction mainboard. So, we shouldn't have a problem game 1 with playing as many enchant land cards however we desire. If we know the opponent has access to land destruction, then game 2 you play enchant lands in a way that adjusts to that. If you only play 1 enchantment per land, your opponent will not be able to 3 for 1 you ever. The last point on Fertile Growth vs mana dorks is this: Removal spells are way more common than LD spells. It is much more likely that a mana dork will be Lightning Bolted or otherwise removed, even in games 2 and 3, than a land destroyed.
I'm not discounting the need for Birds of Paradise, but suggesting that if you play 3 or 4 birds you take 1 out for Fertile Growth. In my current Craterhoof deck I tested this point extensively (for me at least) and having 1 Fertile Growth in place of 1 Birds is definitely better than no Fertile Growth.
You are right that I was trying to play 3 Fertile Growth just for the sake of Eidolon of Blossoms. I went down to 2 and added one Birds of Paradise. The thing I liked about my first Eidolon incarnation is that it could string cards along like a champ at times. I'm talking about drawing 2-4 cards in a turn and playing just as many the same turn. When you can play one of those enchant land cards onto an untapped land with Eidolon out, you stand a good chance of being able to play that card you just drew. If that card is an enchantment, the cycle continues.
You are spot on with Eidolon of Blossoms being a build around me card. My first incarnation of an Eidolon deck was attempting to Summoner's Pact/Craterhoof my way to victory. I often didn't have the creatures necessary to make Choof effective. Essentially, Eidolon was not supporting my Choof wincon. Eidolon is not a good card when it's simply a 2/2 for 4 that draws a card.
This new incarnation is becoming becoming more aggro (for our archetype anyway). Rancor supports Eidolon in two ways, drawing cards and making it a threat. Xenagos, God of Revels and Arlin Kord may be good cards for this deck to help make Eidolon a threat. The deck listed plays a Xenagos planeswalker instead of Nylea. Having another ramp planeswalker is great. I also like Rancor on 2/2 haste creatures all game long. Not sure if he should be replaced with Arlin Kord instead though.
Here's the newer incarnation of the deck. I think I'll build it and give it some testing.
@JavishaJai: nice list. The only major tweaks I'd have are not using Visionary (Abundant Growth seems a better cantrip, if needed), Nylea being weaker than other choices, and adding Witnesses to chain Waves.
I'm not sure I understand the chaining of Genesis Wave. I can see that if you keep an E. Witness in hand you could get G-wave back the next turn. If Eternal Witness is revealed off a Genesis Wave, can it bring back the same Wave used to put it out when it enters the battlefield?
I suppose the fundamental rules question is this: When an instant/sorcery starts to resolve off the stack, does it go to the graveyard before or after it's effects happen?
To answer your question, yes, the Witness can grab the Wave that put it in the battlefield. The Wave had to resolve for it to reveal/place all of the cards on the battlefield...so when the Witness hits the field it is already in the yard. The wave is not on the stack when the Witness hits the field...it has already resolved.
I think enabling delirium in a deck like this is non-trivial. I don't think it's worth it to cast the first traverse as a bad cantrip, and I don't think waiting until it is turned on is great either. Sure, wayfinder can enable in one hit, but that's not going to happen all that often.
Traverse the Ulvenwald is a build around me card that I'm not sure works very well with current devotion decks I've seen. You will have to work really hard to make sure you have Delirium as our deck does not have many low cost instants/sorceries that can be put into the graveyard quickly, nor does it have much self-mill. I don't believe Hedron Crab is a very worthy card in the build you listed. It's essentially a chump blocker who's only purpose is to make sure another card in the deck is good. Each card in the deck needs to be good on it's own and hopefully has synergy with other cards as well.
If you want to make this card shine you will have to focus more on the graveyard and card-type variety. I do wonder if a Green/Black build could put it to use. If you were to run 4 Grisly Salvage which adds more cheap instants to the graveyard, and 4 Satyr Wayfinder you'd be off to a good start. I would also run 4 Eternal Witness so we can grab back all of those Traverse the Ulvenwald or other significant cards.
The other card that jumps out at me is Tasigur, the Goldenfang. Between self-mill and our big mana we can drop him down pretty early. He adds something desperately needed for green, card advantage.
With black in our mana base, we have access to Abrupt Decay and Murderous Cut. The deck could become more interactive this route.
***Edit***
With all of this mill, Gather the Pack may have spell mastery activated. Worth looking at in a graveyard route. Fatihless Looting also comes to mind.
A large drawback to consider is that almost every deck will have access to graveyard hate. Could be viable though!
After testing with Cryptolith Rite for the new standard I'd say it seems to be on the verge of busted. In a larger card pool I can only imagine that it may be something that can be abused. I know in my testing, cards like Eidolon of Blossoms seemed on the verge of playability -this might be able to push things over the edge, but it still feels like we're a few cards away from a critical mass from a modern "enchantress" type deck.
After testing with Cryptolith Rite for the new standard I'd say it seems to be on the verge of busted. In a larger card pool I can only imagine that it may be something that can be abused. I know in my testing, cards like Eidolon of Blossoms seemed on the verge of playability -this might be able to push things over the edge, but it still feels like we're a few cards away from a critical mass from a modern "enchantress" type deck.
I've been loading up on the 3cmc slot recently playing 3x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, 3x Hornet's Nest, and 2x Eternal Witness. I'm really trying to find the best bang for my buck on turn two that an opponent will definitely want to deal with rather than focusing on my mana dorks. Hornet's nest has been great in that regard as it soaks up all the hate right away, or helps protect my planes walkers for a few turns while producing a hornet or two in the process. I plan on testing Troll Ascetic in that slot as well, but I'm afraid that will just make the decision easier for my opponent to just pick on my ramp. Any thoughts on these cards?
I think going heavy in the 3 cmc slot is a good idea. I went from one Nissa mainboard to three recently and will begin testing. She is an amazing turn 2 play! Playing Hornet Nest seems like a good idea. May be helpful to Craterhoof. People may still want to use their Lightning bolts on Mana accelerators vs Hornet Nest. I can see it drawing out other kill spells. The problem I see is, if they can use non-damage based creature removal, we don't really get a benefit from playing Hornet Nest. Seems like it can have potential, especially in a deck heavy in planewalkers. Let us know how it turns out in testing.
I have started playing more Strangleroot Geist and Kitchen Finks lately. It really helps us to stall the game/stay aggressive until we cast a game-ender. My new list plays 4 Kitchen Finks and 3 Strangleroot Geist Along with 9 planeswalkers. They also provide devotion for extra turns since they come back. Also support Craterhoof quite nicely while protecting planeswalkers very well.
CAN'T WAIT FOR THE BAN LIST ANNOUNCEMENT!! We'll finally be back to a "normal" meta (and still twin-less) meta
I haven't been posting as much due to our father's health, some busy business weeks, and as I've been fidgeting with the devotion archetype for a bit. I still have the Wave/Walker combo deck; but as I played more and more with Nissa, Voice of Zendikar it got me to thinking...
The combination of these cards (and your dorks) reward you for finding a way to make little things (plant tokens, birds, elves, 2/2 shamans, etc.) into threats.
Garruk does this already with his ovverun ability; but we all know how awesome Garruk is. The other two cards that I could find that best accomplish this were Craterhoof Behemoth and Kessig Wolf Run. Neither are new or novel ideas (nothing in my deck really is); but it's worth explaining...
Craterhoof just simply got better with the printing of the new Nissa....as discussed directly above; the 3-drop slot is crazy important to this deck; and a planeswalker is about as powerful as it gets.
The last piece was actually due to the fact that I wanted a way to tutor for Wolf-Run; and there just isn't a better way than Primeval Titan. Prime Time is a broken card. That's not in doubt. In Modern; however, it's not necessarily a guaranteed win-con (as multiple 1-2 drop removal spells kill/exile it, and without haste its real benefit is not seen until the turn after it is played.). Due to this, I will only play Primeval Titan in a deck where I can somewhat consistently cast it on turn 3 (as this is when it is truly broken). This is what led to the use of Summoners Pact (although I've since found numerous more uses for pacts).
None of the deck is essentially "new" to devotion. I just think with the addition of Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Oath of Nissa to the archetype that a deck focused on "traditional" win-cons may be fast enough/consistent enough now.
I've been testing it for about a week now and of course it will take more; but it is very consistent in its speed. The board will of course change with the meta; but I was surprised how many decks struggle against at a turn 3 (and even turn 4) Prime Time. I was also surprised how often a turn 3 Craterhoof was available (with BTE/Pact shenanigans especially).
I'll post a formal "match-up" write up this week. I didn't want to post too much until we knew what the meta would consist of and exactly what kind of Eldrazi deck we were looking at (I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Simian Spirit Guide ban; but I have a sinking feeling we may see Spirit Guide/Chalice Eldrazi again...). We'll know a ton more in a few hours!
Anywho, let me know what you think! I'll keep you posted on results. I still have my Walker combo deck and a Chord-centric deck that is more on the disruptive end; but I really wanted to find a way to be the "best X deck" (in this case, best Primeval Titan deck). I think we (devotion) can be the best deck for Prime Time, Super Friends, Karn Liberated, Genesis Wave, Witness/Command, and of course Tooth and Nail deck...but you have to pick one (sometimes two) and focus on it/them.
Hope everyone else is doing great! I'd love to hear more results/experiences. Goatayer22 has a chord-based deck he's thinking of bringing to the next GP; so we gotta help perfect it! I am going to play MTGO this week with whatever deck I decide on after hearing from the community as well (in hopes of shining a little more light on devotion as a competitive archetype. That, and with Tooth and Nail still strolling along; we gotta work on how to perfect it with the new post-banning meta....our work is never done
Have a great Monday! Talk to you after the ban announcement!
It's interesting that you have moved to focus more on Primeval Titan. My games have led me to do exactly the same thing (Playing 4 now also). I find I win most of my matches these days because of Prime Time. I cannot stress enough how good 1x Inkmoth Nexus has been for me alongside the Titan though - It's a staple for me now.
I am going to try out Nissa, I have been putting it off because she looks bad at face value but I will give it a shot. My tests with Eidolon of Blossoms have been less than exciting so I have a couple of spots fee anyhow.
I totally understand your hesitation with Nissa. I couldn't see it on paper either. I didn't play her for months. She just seemed too slow. she just seems to add advantage in those games where everything isn't perfect (while not slowing you down in "God hands". The extra creatures are perfect for the game plan; and I've won several games just pumping my board 2 or more times and attacking on turns 3 & 4.
I will have to try Inmoth Nexus (assuming it is still legal in an hour :). With even fewer red cards, the deck is almost entirely mono-green now; so I may be able to get away with another non-Forest. Only testing can tell :). Great points! I'm excited to hear even more about your deck. It's always great to hear when others are on the same page (as there is strength and safety in numbers ). Like I said, I haven't reinvented the wheel here...just threw together what was already good from multiple lists before. I just never was confident that the "traditional" Prime-Time/Craterhoof plan could get there consistently enough; but I think Nissa and Oath may have got it there. At least I hope it did! I'm gonna keep playing it until I see otherwise.
In terms of the board and pacts; you can ways switch out Pacts for Chord Of Calling...they are a hair slower; but more versatile (especially allowing you to board in things like Spellskite and Magus of the Moon. The board, as always, is subject to change.
So...it looks like we are going to be playing a lot of Genesis Hydra I am glad to see that the meta (at least right now) appears to be an amazingly healthy and expansive one; but it does look like control got quite a boost....and the Thopter Foundry combo on top makes for many more blue-based decks in our future.
It is going to be SUPER fun brewing devotion in this meta (as I think we are still in a good place) but it is going to present some new roadblocks to build around. I'm currently proxiing up UB Tezzerator, a few different control decks, Grixis, and a few others I think are going to pop up as the meta changes. I'll let you know how they play! I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the meta as well. It's going to a really good period for Modern I think!
Ive been playing g wave for over a year know and in my experience you win with g wave little over 50 or 60 percent of games.
However a card i havent seen played and that i love to death in this deck is magus of the vineyard or as i call him here im helping i only run 2 but turns on the verry unlikey turn two combo wombo but i love liveing the dream (done turn 2 combo 13 times over 1 year period yes i counted shhh) anywho he helps your oppnent first
yes but if he servives he vomits your board the turn after most of the times secures turn 3 g wave also a nice note is i prefer to run 2 craterhoofs for 3 reasons double cratering someone is more satisfying than than geting a full deck g wave, as ive been playing a this deck a lot people founed they can counter the crater with stifle but genrally they cant cast another the same turn also if you dont hit a g wave and have a crater in hand and only 2 creatures and happen to have a primal comand you can comand for second crater and win that way.also came here for help i run jorga treespeaker but need replacement as he is two slow any sugestions?
Magus is a fun idea...giving your opponent mana is scary; but generally any time you can plan for something and take advantage of it and they can't; you win out on the deal It is another way to get an early Garruk down. I'm not entirely certain it's worth the risk; but if it paid off enough by making you a turn faster to cast your main cards than it is certainly worth it. I will be testing it. Interesting idea!
NEW META DISCUSSIONS
I'm watching streaming and speaking to some of my modern friends...the meta looks like it could be VERY blue!! This is nuts. It could be a new Modern we've never seen. It's both exciting and scary (because control is not our favorite match up).
@CurdBros did you ever find an example of a "Stompy Devotion" list? That section is still empty, and I'm kind of interested what is meant by it. Is it just the Mono-G Stompy deck that runs aspect of hydra?
I'm particularly interested because given the expected influx of blue into the meta, I want to move as much as possible to having many medium/large sized threats as opposed to a few large game ending ones. I think hydra > wave is justified if we're expecting a lot of permission decks (which there are in my local meta), since it lets us cheat out a big threat, and it punishes reliance on bounce/countermagic to deal with those threats.
Also, the more I play the more I find that Leatherback Baloth is the unsung hero of my deck. While I'd say a good 2/3 of my wins come from a big overrun with Garruk/Titan+Kessig/Craterhoof, a solid 1/3 of my wins come from just swinging in with baloth/geist/bte. Baloth is particularly good at that for me since it dodges lightning bolt and eats chump blockers for breakfast. Not to mention that with a casting cost of GGG, it generally makes my nykthos activations that much better. I think a lot of people underestimate the card since it doesn't do anything particularly flashy, but swinging in for 4 or eating a ground attacker every combat is nothing to sneeze at. Especially given that I expect people to cut some mainboard dismembers and roasts post eldrazi, I'm going to be running 4x for the foreseeable future.
@CurdBros did you ever find an example of a "Stompy Devotion" list? That section is still empty, and I'm kind of interested what is meant by it. Is it just the Mono-G Stompy deck that runs aspect of hydra?
Not Curdbros but I guess it would look somewhat like my current list?
I am going to try out Nissa, I have been putting it off because she looks bad at face value but I will give it a shot. My tests with Eidolon of Blossoms have been less than exciting so I have a couple of spots fee anyhow.
I highly recommend Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. She plays much better than she looks on paper. A turn 2 Nissa has won me a lot of games. She has great synergy with 2 of our favorite planeswalkers, Garruk Wildspeaker and Xenagos the Reveler. I used to play only 1 Nissa along side 4 Garruk and 2 Xenagos. After testing, I realized that turn 2 Nissa followed by Xenagos and Garruk is an unexpected wincon. I almost always win games when I can play these walkers one after another. The synergy is absolutely amazing. Nissa helps Xenagos to ramp. All three walkers can produce tokens to protect themselves/each other. It is very hard for an opponent to deal with 3 creatures being added every turn. If played on curve, it is nigh impossible for an opponent to destroy even one of these planeswalkers, much less all of them.
With a god hand you can Nissa turn 2, Garruk into Xenagos turn 3.
*Turn 1 Arbor elf
*Turn 2 sprawl onto forest, tap enchant land and elf for Nissa, Voice of Zendikar plus Oath/elf/birds/sprawl. Get out token.
*Turn 3 play Nykthos. Tap Nykthos + Enchant land to net 4-5 mana, play Garruk. Untap lands with Garruk, retap enchanted land+Nykthos net 6-7 mana, tap Stomping Ground for red play Xenagos with 3-5 mana floating.
From here plus one Nissa, to get a token, 0 Xenagos to get a token for a total of 4-5 creatures and 3 planeswalker turn 3.
Or plus one Nissa, plus one Xenagos to net another 3-4 mana. Combine with floating mana to cast another spell on turn 3. In fact, if we've kept all of our creatures, we can use the Arbor Elf to untap the enchanted land to play a Craterhoof Behemoth. If somehow we've kept all of our creatures up until this point, all creatures get +4/+4 or +5/+5. We attack with the first plant token, possibly a Birds or second elf played on turn 2, and Craterhoof for 13 or 21 trample damage turn 3.
Though this god hand is extremely unlikely, it demonstrates the raw power of being able to play nissa turn 2. If Nissa is backed up by Burning Tree/Strangleroot/Kitchen Finks it leads to an immense amount creatures on the board early on while protecting other walkers! She essentially adds synergy to many wincons currently used in our deck while being good value anytime she's played. She bolsters Craterhoof, Kessig Wolf Run and Garruk's Ultimate ability.
Even if a planeswalker duo/trio doesn't out right win the game, it will stall someone out until we draw our wincon.
My thoughts on Nissa. My new untested deck list plays 3 of them.
I'm not sure I understand the chaining of Genesis Wave. I can see that if you keep an E. Witness in hand you could get G-wave back the next turn. If Eternal Witness is revealed off a Genesis Wave, can it bring back the same Wave used to put it out when it enters the battlefield?
I suppose the fundamental rules question is this: When an instant/sorcery starts to resolve off the stack, does it go to the graveyard before or after it's effects happen?
Fertile Growth is an excellent card and I would encourage more people to try it as a one of. It has saved me more than a couple of games in fact. I sometimes run into situations where the opponent has killed all my early mana dorks I used to get out Garruk, Wildspeaker with only 2 or 3 land. Only an enchant land card can pull us out of this or other similar sticky situations, and it has for me. It has also saved my butt when I wanted to cast an early Xenagos the Reveler but had no other red sources. Unlike Birds or Arbor Elf, this card can help pay for itself the turn it comes out. If we have a Nykthos on the board, the card can be played for "free" as it adds one devotion and one mana. You mention land destruction, and yes we must be wary of that. There are ways to play around it however. I don't believe most decks play land destruction mainboard. So, we shouldn't have a problem game 1 with playing as many enchant land cards however we desire. If we know the opponent has access to land destruction, then game 2 you play enchant lands in a way that adjusts to that. If you only play 1 enchantment per land, your opponent will not be able to 3 for 1 you ever. The last point on Fertile Growth vs mana dorks is this: Removal spells are way more common than LD spells. It is much more likely that a mana dork will be Lightning Bolted or otherwise removed, even in games 2 and 3, than a land destroyed.
I'm not discounting the need for Birds of Paradise, but suggesting that if you play 3 or 4 birds you take 1 out for Fertile Growth. In my current Craterhoof deck I tested this point extensively (for me at least) and having 1 Fertile Growth in place of 1 Birds is definitely better than no Fertile Growth.
You are right that I was trying to play 3 Fertile Growth just for the sake of Eidolon of Blossoms. I went down to 2 and added one Birds of Paradise. The thing I liked about my first Eidolon incarnation is that it could string cards along like a champ at times. I'm talking about drawing 2-4 cards in a turn and playing just as many the same turn. When you can play one of those enchant land cards onto an untapped land with Eidolon out, you stand a good chance of being able to play that card you just drew. If that card is an enchantment, the cycle continues.
You are spot on with Eidolon of Blossoms being a build around me card. My first incarnation of an Eidolon deck was attempting to Summoner's Pact/Craterhoof my way to victory. I often didn't have the creatures necessary to make Choof effective. Essentially, Eidolon was not supporting my Choof wincon. Eidolon is not a good card when it's simply a 2/2 for 4 that draws a card.
This new incarnation is becoming becoming more aggro (for our archetype anyway). Rancor supports Eidolon in two ways, drawing cards and making it a threat. Xenagos, God of Revels and Arlin Kord may be good cards for this deck to help make Eidolon a threat. The deck listed plays a Xenagos planeswalker instead of Nylea. Having another ramp planeswalker is great. I also like Rancor on 2/2 haste creatures all game long. Not sure if he should be replaced with Arlin Kord instead though.
Here's the newer incarnation of the deck. I think I'll build it and give it some testing.
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
2 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Xenagos the Reveler
4 Rancor
4 Genesis Wave
3 Oath of Nissa
2 Fertile Ground
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Stomping Ground
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
7 Forest
To answer your question, yes, the Witness can grab the Wave that put it in the battlefield. The Wave had to resolve for it to reveal/place all of the cards on the battlefield...so when the Witness hits the field it is already in the yard. The wave is not on the stack when the Witness hits the field...it has already resolved.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32663_Video-Tooth-And-Nail-In-Modern.html
If you want to make this card shine you will have to focus more on the graveyard and card-type variety. I do wonder if a Green/Black build could put it to use. If you were to run 4 Grisly Salvage which adds more cheap instants to the graveyard, and 4 Satyr Wayfinder you'd be off to a good start. I would also run 4 Eternal Witness so we can grab back all of those Traverse the Ulvenwald or other significant cards.
The other card that jumps out at me is Tasigur, the Goldenfang. Between self-mill and our big mana we can drop him down pretty early. He adds something desperately needed for green, card advantage.
With black in our mana base, we have access to Abrupt Decay and Murderous Cut. The deck could become more interactive this route.
***Edit***
With all of this mill, Gather the Pack may have spell mastery activated. Worth looking at in a graveyard route. Fatihless Looting also comes to mind.
A large drawback to consider is that almost every deck will have access to graveyard hate. Could be viable though!
I think that a token heavy approach might be pretty good. Stuff like Wolfbriar Elemental,Nissa, Voice of Zendikar,Xenagos, the Reveler or even Avenger of Zendikar. Hell it could even revitalize the old Elf Combo list
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/345135#paper
Practice can be just as valuable for learning! That's great that you won so much! Thanks for posting this.
I have started playing more Strangleroot Geist and Kitchen Finks lately. It really helps us to stall the game/stay aggressive until we cast a game-ender. My new list plays 4 Kitchen Finks and 3 Strangleroot Geist Along with 9 planeswalkers. They also provide devotion for extra turns since they come back. Also support Craterhoof quite nicely while protecting planeswalkers very well.
CAN'T WAIT FOR THE BAN LIST ANNOUNCEMENT!! We'll finally be back to a "normal" meta (and still twin-less) meta
I haven't been posting as much due to our father's health, some busy business weeks, and as I've been fidgeting with the devotion archetype for a bit. I still have the Wave/Walker combo deck; but as I played more and more with Nissa, Voice of Zendikar it got me to thinking...
In a non-Tooth and Nail devotion deck; the following cards seem to be extremely powerful support cards:
1. Garruk Wildspeaker (obviously)
2. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3. Burning-Tree Emissary
The combination of these cards (and your dorks) reward you for finding a way to make little things (plant tokens, birds, elves, 2/2 shamans, etc.) into threats.
Garruk does this already with his ovverun ability; but we all know how awesome Garruk is. The other two cards that I could find that best accomplish this were Craterhoof Behemoth and Kessig Wolf Run. Neither are new or novel ideas (nothing in my deck really is); but it's worth explaining...
Craterhoof just simply got better with the printing of the new Nissa....as discussed directly above; the 3-drop slot is crazy important to this deck; and a planeswalker is about as powerful as it gets.
The last piece was actually due to the fact that I wanted a way to tutor for Wolf-Run; and there just isn't a better way than Primeval Titan. Prime Time is a broken card. That's not in doubt. In Modern; however, it's not necessarily a guaranteed win-con (as multiple 1-2 drop removal spells kill/exile it, and without haste its real benefit is not seen until the turn after it is played.). Due to this, I will only play Primeval Titan in a deck where I can somewhat consistently cast it on turn 3 (as this is when it is truly broken). This is what led to the use of Summoners Pact (although I've since found numerous more uses for pacts).
All of the above led to the following:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Courser of Kruphix
1x Eternal Witness
4x Primeval Titan
1x Hornet Queen
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
Enchantment
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
Instant/Sorcery
3x Summoners Pact
Land
7x Forest
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Windswept Heath
2x Stomping Grounds
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Kessig Wolf Run
3x Bonfire of the Damned
3x Genesis Hydra
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Acidic Slime
1x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Loaming Shaman
1x Temur Sabertooth
1x Ruric Thar, Unbowed
None of the deck is essentially "new" to devotion. I just think with the addition of Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Oath of Nissa to the archetype that a deck focused on "traditional" win-cons may be fast enough/consistent enough now.
I've been testing it for about a week now and of course it will take more; but it is very consistent in its speed. The board will of course change with the meta; but I was surprised how many decks struggle against at a turn 3 (and even turn 4) Prime Time. I was also surprised how often a turn 3 Craterhoof was available (with BTE/Pact shenanigans especially).
I'll post a formal "match-up" write up this week. I didn't want to post too much until we knew what the meta would consist of and exactly what kind of Eldrazi deck we were looking at (I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Simian Spirit Guide ban; but I have a sinking feeling we may see Spirit Guide/Chalice Eldrazi again...). We'll know a ton more in a few hours!
Anywho, let me know what you think! I'll keep you posted on results. I still have my Walker combo deck and a Chord-centric deck that is more on the disruptive end; but I really wanted to find a way to be the "best X deck" (in this case, best Primeval Titan deck). I think we (devotion) can be the best deck for Prime Time, Super Friends, Karn Liberated, Genesis Wave, Witness/Command, and of course Tooth and Nail deck...but you have to pick one (sometimes two) and focus on it/them.
Hope everyone else is doing great! I'd love to hear more results/experiences. Goatayer22 has a chord-based deck he's thinking of bringing to the next GP; so we gotta help perfect it! I am going to play MTGO this week with whatever deck I decide on after hearing from the community as well (in hopes of shining a little more light on devotion as a competitive archetype. That, and with Tooth and Nail still strolling along; we gotta work on how to perfect it with the new post-banning meta....our work is never done
Have a great Monday! Talk to you after the ban announcement!
I totally understand your hesitation with Nissa. I couldn't see it on paper either. I didn't play her for months. She just seemed too slow. she just seems to add advantage in those games where everything isn't perfect (while not slowing you down in "God hands". The extra creatures are perfect for the game plan; and I've won several games just pumping my board 2 or more times and attacking on turns 3 & 4.
I will have to try Inmoth Nexus (assuming it is still legal in an hour :). With even fewer red cards, the deck is almost entirely mono-green now; so I may be able to get away with another non-Forest. Only testing can tell :). Great points! I'm excited to hear even more about your deck. It's always great to hear when others are on the same page (as there is strength and safety in numbers
In terms of the board and pacts; you can ways switch out Pacts for Chord Of Calling...they are a hair slower; but more versatile (especially allowing you to board in things like Spellskite and Magus of the Moon. The board, as always, is subject to change.
So...it looks like we are going to be playing a lot of Genesis Hydra
It is going to be SUPER fun brewing devotion in this meta (as I think we are still in a good place) but it is going to present some new roadblocks to build around. I'm currently proxiing up UB Tezzerator, a few different control decks, Grixis, and a few others I think are going to pop up as the meta changes. I'll let you know how they play! I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the meta as well. It's going to a really good period for Modern I think!
Magus is a fun idea...giving your opponent mana is scary; but generally any time you can plan for something and take advantage of it and they can't; you win out on the deal
NEW META DISCUSSIONS
I'm watching streaming and speaking to some of my modern friends...the meta looks like it could be VERY blue!! This is nuts. It could be a new Modern we've never seen. It's both exciting and scary (because control is not our favorite match up).
I'm particularly interested because given the expected influx of blue into the meta, I want to move as much as possible to having many medium/large sized threats as opposed to a few large game ending ones. I think hydra > wave is justified if we're expecting a lot of permission decks (which there are in my local meta), since it lets us cheat out a big threat, and it punishes reliance on bounce/countermagic to deal with those threats.
Also, the more I play the more I find that Leatherback Baloth is the unsung hero of my deck. While I'd say a good 2/3 of my wins come from a big overrun with Garruk/Titan+Kessig/Craterhoof, a solid 1/3 of my wins come from just swinging in with baloth/geist/bte. Baloth is particularly good at that for me since it dodges lightning bolt and eats chump blockers for breakfast. Not to mention that with a casting cost of GGG, it generally makes my nykthos activations that much better. I think a lot of people underestimate the card since it doesn't do anything particularly flashy, but swinging in for 4 or eating a ground attacker every combat is nothing to sneeze at. Especially given that I expect people to cut some mainboard dismembers and roasts post eldrazi, I'm going to be running 4x for the foreseeable future.
Not Curdbros but I guess it would look somewhat like my current list?
13x Forest
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures ( 22)
4x Arbor Elf
2x Strangleroot Geist
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Leatherback Baloth
2x Eternal Witness
1x Nylea, God of the Hunt
1x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Genesis Hydra
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Sarkhan Vol
Spells (12)
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
2x Fertile Ground
2x Primal Command
I highly recommend Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. She plays much better than she looks on paper. A turn 2 Nissa has won me a lot of games. She has great synergy with 2 of our favorite planeswalkers, Garruk Wildspeaker and Xenagos the Reveler. I used to play only 1 Nissa along side 4 Garruk and 2 Xenagos. After testing, I realized that turn 2 Nissa followed by Xenagos and Garruk is an unexpected wincon. I almost always win games when I can play these walkers one after another. The synergy is absolutely amazing. Nissa helps Xenagos to ramp. All three walkers can produce tokens to protect themselves/each other. It is very hard for an opponent to deal with 3 creatures being added every turn. If played on curve, it is nigh impossible for an opponent to destroy even one of these planeswalkers, much less all of them.
With a god hand you can Nissa turn 2, Garruk into Xenagos turn 3.
*Turn 1 Arbor elf
*Turn 2 sprawl onto forest, tap enchant land and elf for Nissa, Voice of Zendikar plus Oath/elf/birds/sprawl. Get out token.
*Turn 3 play Nykthos. Tap Nykthos + Enchant land to net 4-5 mana, play Garruk. Untap lands with Garruk, retap enchanted land+Nykthos net 6-7 mana, tap Stomping Ground for red play Xenagos with 3-5 mana floating.
From here plus one Nissa, to get a token, 0 Xenagos to get a token for a total of 4-5 creatures and 3 planeswalker turn 3.
Or plus one Nissa, plus one Xenagos to net another 3-4 mana. Combine with floating mana to cast another spell on turn 3. In fact, if we've kept all of our creatures, we can use the Arbor Elf to untap the enchanted land to play a Craterhoof Behemoth. If somehow we've kept all of our creatures up until this point, all creatures get +4/+4 or +5/+5. We attack with the first plant token, possibly a Birds or second elf played on turn 2, and Craterhoof for 13 or 21 trample damage turn 3.
Though this god hand is extremely unlikely, it demonstrates the raw power of being able to play nissa turn 2. If Nissa is backed up by Burning Tree/Strangleroot/Kitchen Finks it leads to an immense amount creatures on the board early on while protecting other walkers! She essentially adds synergy to many wincons currently used in our deck while being good value anytime she's played. She bolsters Craterhoof, Kessig Wolf Run and Garruk's Ultimate ability.
Even if a planeswalker duo/trio doesn't out right win the game, it will stall someone out until we draw our wincon.
My thoughts on Nissa. My new untested deck list plays 3 of them.
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Elvish Visionary
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Strangleroot Geist
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Primeval Titan
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Xenagos The Reveler
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Harmonize
1 Genesis Wave
3 Summoner's Pact
1 Fertile Ground
4 Utopia Sprawl
Land 20
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
7 Forest
2 Spellskite
2 Eternal Witness
2 Beast Within
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Primal Command
1 Hornet Queen
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Acidic Slime
1 Vexing Shusher