Honestly I have loved the addition of Hornet Queen. She has synergy with Xenagos, a Gurrak Ult with her on the board is lethal, gives you a flyer for Kessig. I have also been very happy with Treetop Village, its done a surprising amount of work. The deck has been fast and pretty consistent, I am thinking about taking a Hornet Queen out for another Strangleroot Geist but I'm not sure that it matters.
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Standard:GR Eldrazi Ramp
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
After playing with Xenagos, the reveler, then taking him out, and then putting him back in, I have come to the conclusion that he makes a pretty significant impact. His mana ability gives an alternative ramp strategy to land enchantment which is something this deck painfully needs. He is also capable of pooping out an army of blockers or attackers without consequence to his ultimate like garruk. I currently play 2, but I've recently thought about going up to 3.
You may be able to cut down to 3 or even 2 BOP to get in your 3rd Growth. If you go as far as two, that gives you one more slot MB for whatever you want to play. I have found 20 land and 6 dorks to be just right. Any more dorks and that is all I draw. Any more land, same issue. But, fewer dorks, and I don't see any "pop off" early turns.
Going back to the painters and iona. it works but they can still swing with what they have on the board. how about this...... wait for it..... wait for it... Stormtide Leviathan yes they can cast spells but I have not seen any flying or islandwalk eldrazi in these new decks.. So another brew idea ( Yes brace your selves for another crazy epiknoob brew.) if we could get this token walker/curios combo working make it a Green with a tiny blue splash Deck. Then play mass polymorphs and tooth and nail. So no creatures except spaghetti monster, Xenagos, iona, painters, and Storm tide. Mass is a 6 drop, as long as you have 5 tokens boom! grab all 5 show stoppers for 6 cmc and you still have tooth n nail for 9 cmc.
Thoughts?d
P.S.
I just wanted to let everyone know I now have three green devotion decks...woot lol ( walker combo- still following CurdBros on that one, Thooth and nail, and the third is my crazy brew decks - that way I dont have to take apart the deck over and over .)
Of course, the sideboard isn't finished (especially given the meta shake up); but it's getting there (I like a majority of the cards and could see them being permanent fixtures of the board for a while). As always, let me know what you think and I'll keep you up to date on testing findings. Hopefully WOTC can work this Genesis Hydra bug out so we can start playing League and/or Dailies again to get our name out there! The more of us the write them the faster they'll get to it!
I have been watching your walker build grow and change. I started brewing with you but I got distracted with my crazy deck ideas that I just have to build. I do really love this deck idea. I do have few questions. 1) how is Nissan vs Courser. ( token and buff vs life gain.) 2) did you know you are one land short on your list? 3) how is the synergy with the token ETB to cloudstone to bounce visionary. if that works have you bounce the craterhoof for 2X the fun? 4) I really like the side board move you did with ETB effect or good bounce targets. Have you thought about main boarding an acidic slime one of my fav's to bounce. Also I would side the slime over fulminater. you could drop either one on turn 2 and with the slime you can do it again and again. . 5) with Nissa oath have you thought about adding some random crazy walker just for fun? The look on your opponents if you just dropped a Nicol Bolas. lol
Oath digs for walkers,creatures, and lands.
I normally don't play it first turn. Would rather play Arbor elf or utopia sprawl first turn. The elf is the first choice. Now I have played it first turn off mulligans looking for my 2nd land drop. (Didn't have elf or utopia in my hand)
I don't play with it, but I don't really see why people are so crazy over oath of nissa I mean I guess it's a tool that would be useful in mono green, but if you splash like one other color you have access to a lot of better digging tools. If I have a bad hand, a planeswalker doesn't always make it better and you can't draw lands with it. The only purpose I really see for it is drawing creatures and I think there are cards that do that better. Also do you guys play this card turn 1 or save it for later turns after you know what you need or are playing against. I assume the card is meant to make opening hands better, but I don't really see how it does that outside of grabbing an arbor elf.
Oath digs for lands too. And it adds a permanent 1 devotion. And it doesn't just draw or filter 2 like the other best 1 drop cantrips. It lets you look at your top 3, which is crazy good. It's definitely not as good in a deck with tons of noncreature/planeswalker spells though.
If you didn't know that Oath of Nissa digs for lands perhaps that is why you didn't understand as to why it's so good? It gets ANY land too! Oath has grabbed me a Nykthos when I didn't have one to go huge with mana asap. It digs for my win cons, Planeswalkers and Genesis Hydra and Craterhoof. You can essentially "play it for free" with a Nykthos on the board as it's devotion replaces itsself. I'm playing Eidolon of Blossoms in my build also. It's insanely good if you have one of those on the board. "Draw a card, then scry 3 and draw another card" for 1 mana. Since it is a legendary permanent, if you play 2 of them, you get an extra target in your graveyard for eternal Witness. It's a fringe play, but it can be useful every once in a while. I've done it before to get that Eidolon trigger mentioned above.
The real reason Oath of Nissa is really great is that it keeps you from mulliganing too often. I only mulliganed twice out of 8 games at modern night at my local games store last week. If you are running only 20 lands and have 4 Nykthos and 1 Kessig Wolf Run, that leaves you with only 15 lands in the entire deck that can tap for Green mana! This card takes all of the pressure off of keeping a one land hand if you draw it as well. You can't discount the power of digging for another 1 cost mana dork on turn 2 to keep the ramp up.
Very new to deck building, but I love how this deck has been running. I'm very interested in the debate between Sarkhan Vol and Xenagos in the build. I understand that they are being used for different strategies, but I feel that the "win" potential is much greater using Sarkhan Vol. Ideally I've been finding Sarkhan after beefing up Gen Hydra, or going off on Gen Wave. Unfortunately Gen Hydra doesn't have trample (unless you already had a Garruk or Kessig), but I have had some surprise combos go off just using the haste on some of my mana dorks. Another card I love so far has been Khalni Hydra. I only run 1 copy of him, but have had pulled him from summoners pact several times on turn 3 to really get things going for me. I also like the idea of having both Gen Hydra and Gen Wave in the main board, but it's hard to find the balance of the two (you don't want to find either while you are using their abilities). I'm not sure how to post my deck up on here, so here is a quick list w/o side board (work in progress):
Land
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
14x Forest (will add fetch lands/stomping ground soon)
Always looking for some constructive criticism!
The deck looks like it can do great things. I would be wary of running 2 Kessig Wolf Run myself for the reasons mentioned above. You only have 14 lands that can tap for green mana, it will probably lead to too many mulligans. I still draw hands with no lands or only Nykthos/Wolf Runs in them and I only play one copy of Wolf Run. I tested playing 2 before myself, the deck was too clunky. One thought would be to add a sylvan scrying or Primeval Titan to the deck so you can more consistently find Wolf Run while only running one copy.
I see that you aren't running Oath of Nissa, which may be a perfectly fine choice. Without that extra card draw/filter permanent, I would recommend 4 Elvish Visionary. They are so much better than they look. Top decking that with an empty hand but with tons of mana (which happens a lot as we play everything out quickly) will allow you to play an extra card that turn. It seems small, but it does big things with the cards revealed. I would cut 1 or 2 BTEs for the visionary.
Diversifying your mana rampers is important. I've survived Damnation before only due to the fact that I had 3 enchantment ramp cards in play when it happened. I would recommend 1-2 copies of Fertile Ground and/or Courser of Kruphix. (Though Kruphix is a creature, it is the land he puts into play that actually does the ramping.) I play 2-3 copies of Courser in my 60 and he is never disappointing. It's surprising how relevant having a 4 toughness body on turn 2 or 3 is to shutting down aggro decks. He also combos with fetchlands and the Elvish Visionary or Oath of Nissa to shuffle away unwanted cards from the top of your library before your drawstep.
As I read over your list, I can see that you are taking adavantage of Sarkhan's +1 ability with your ramping creatures to make them ramp the turn they come out. This was trying to take advantage of this in an early build. I find that enchant lands tend to have an edge over this as we can use Garruk or Arbor Elf to take advantage of them twice the turn they come out.
As to the discussion of Xenagos the Reveler and Sarkhan Vol as planeswalker choices. They are both good! I've upped my count of Xenagos the reveler to 2 now and have been quite happy to see him every time I do. He can almost singlehandedly stall out an opponents board early/mid game with his 2/2's. The ability of a planewalker to create a creature to protect itself is SO very strong. I used to play with 2 Sarkhans and found that I often needed mana ramp or more creatures instead of him. Xenagos does both. This is not to discount Sarkhan, he is amazing and it's surprising how often you can end up with a bunch of dragons I would say the thing to consider with Sarkhan is making sure your curve is on track, have plenty of 1-3 mana cost creatures to help protect him and run only 1-2 copies.
I really appreciate the feedback! It's crazy how much there is to learn about this build, but I agree with the need to find consistency. I'm currently waiting for Oath of Nissa in the mail (I live in Japan and don't really like buying Japanese cards out in town) and I do plan on adding her and changing up other cards that benefit from it.
When I first put my deck together I was running two copies of Sylvan Scrying because I thought the need of getting Nykthos every game was that important, but have gone away from it because of how much it slows me down.
A problem that everyone has run into at somepoint is having a lot of mana on turn 3 or 4 but no where to put it, so that's why I have been running the extra kessig. That puts me at 8 cards that I can throw all of that mana into (2x wave, 4x Hydra, 2x Kessig). I'm not sure if that number is too high or low.
I'm sure I will make a million more changes, but it's been fun and I can't wait to find that "perfect" list.
When I first put my deck together I was running two copies of Sylvan Scrying because I thought the need of getting Nykthos every game was that important, but have gone away from it because of how much it slows me down.
A problem that everyone has run into at somepoint is having a lot of mana on turn 3 or 4 but no where to put it, so that's why I have been running the extra kessig. That puts me at 8 cards that I can throw all of that mana into (2x wave, 4x Hydra, 2x Kessig). I'm not sure if that number is too high or low.
I also dropped Sylvan Scrying, I found it usually to be too slow also. Courser of Kruphix is better especially when paired with Oath of Nissa.
The turn 3/4 out of stuff to do with mana was mostly solved in my deck with Genesis Hydra and Eidolon of Blossoms. Eidolon on turn 4 gives you another card you can probably play that turn. If you draw an enchantment, you get even more gas. If it's an Oath of Nissa you get a creature, 2 extra cards and "scry" 3. Or just draw into a Elvish visionary to keep drawing cards without an enchantment.
Eidolon has allowed me to REALLY turn on the gas on turn 4/5 on more than one occasion. It's worked so well that I was able to play 2 of him, plus an arbor elf, an extra garruk which I drew to keep the ramp going, then cast Genesis Hydra to reveal a Craterhoof. I was so caught up in the playing out cards to get crazy devotion and mana that I forgot despite having something like 7 creatures out, only 2 were available to attack with due to summoning sickness! Thus Craterhoofs effect was not as impressive as it could be. I recently swapped a Sarkhan Vol for a Craterhoof to help minimize this. If Gen. Hydra had revealed him instead my army would probably have been more effective.
Here's my decklist built around a massive draw card engine that almost never fails, Gen. Hydra and Craterhoof. Part of the deck's plan is to always make Gen. Hydra a 3 for one by revealing a card that draws me a card, or a planeswalker that can make a permanent the turn it comes out. He can be a 4 for 1 if it reveals Gruul Ragebeast. Ragebeast enters the battlefield first, allowing you to fight for 6 damage with opponent's creature. Then Gen. Hydra enters and he fights too! All this talk of Eidolon has me thinking I should put 4 back in the deck
You may be able to cut down to 3 or even 2 BOP to get in your 3rd Growth. If you go as far as two, that gives you one more slot MB for whatever you want to play. I have found 20 land and 6 dorks to be just right. Any more dorks and that is all I draw. Any more land, same issue. But, fewer dorks, and I don't see any "pop off" early turns.
This is a good point. I feel like the deck needs to have a turn 1 1-drop ramp spell; but with Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, and BOP...I'm at 12. I do have games, however, where I play either an Oath or Abundant Growth on turn 1 as well. It's not optimum; but it's not terrible. I will have to give that a try.
Going back to the painters and iona. it works but they can still swing with what they have on the board. how about this...... wait for it..... wait for it... Stormtide Leviathan yes they can cast spells but I have not seen any flying or islandwalk eldrazi in these new decks.. So another brew idea ( Yes brace your selves for another crazy epiknoob brew.) if we could get this token walker/curios combo working make it a Green with a tiny blue splash Deck. Then play mass polymorphs and tooth and nail. So no creatures except spaghetti monster, Xenagos, iona, painters, and Storm tide. Mass is a 6 drop, as long as you have 5 tokens boom! grab all 5 show stoppers for 6 cmc and you still have tooth n nail for 9 cmc.
Thoughts?d
P.S.
I just wanted to let everyone know I now have three green devotion decks...woot lol ( walker combo- still following CurdBros on that one, Thooth and nail, and the third is my crazy brew decks - that way I dont have to take apart the deck over and over .)
That's awesome! I'm working my way on having two different lists (the Walker Combo list and a list that's more Traditional/Aggro. I own Tooth and Nails as well; so I can always try those when/if I get a wild hair :). That's cool to have three lists...then you can quickly test and play whatever you're feeling that time (and it's a perfect way to test different versions against the same opponent!)
I really like your list! I have enjoyed the hydra to planeswalker combo, but it usually doesn't win me the game since hydra can just be chump blocked most of the time.
So stoked to see another green player playing raging ravine! I know a lot of other guys run treetop village but, I like that the ravine scales since it can keep up with goyfs late game if we need it to. And it is funny to just play that against "permission" players then beating their face with a land all game. Still thinking about the gruul ragebeast idea. I just don't know if that is where my deck is right now. He works super well with Hydra, though. Good call. Very impressive use of that tech!
So stoked to see another green player playing raging ravine! I know a lot of other guys run treetop village but, I like that the ravine scales since it can keep up with goyfs late game if we need it to. And it is funny to just play that against "permission" players then beating their face with a land all game. Still thinking about the gruul ragebeast idea. I just don't know if that is where my deck is right now. He works super well with Hydra, though. Good call. Very impressive use of that tech!
I think the scaling of ravine is nice but I feel like the games where man lands have really made the difference for me was when I had them early and activating for 2 mana was important. Or as another creature to use with a garruk ult/kessig
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Standard:GR Eldrazi Ramp
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Of course, the sideboard isn't finished (especially given the meta shake up); but it's getting there (I like a majority of the cards and could see them being permanent fixtures of the board for a while). As always, let me know what you think and I'll keep you up to date on testing findings. Hopefully WOTC can work this Genesis Hydra bug out so we can start playing League and/or Dailies again to get our name out there! The more of us the write them the faster they'll get to it!
Ok first of all.
Noticed Hoof is back, which is logical with Nissa, Garruk, Xenagos and Elvish Visionary.
I understand lack of BTE as well (imo with Karn version BTEs are just too good. Turn 2-3 Karn is broken as hell).
Sideboard Witness/Command package is fine, I like having this + some Karns in the SB as well.
In the MD I would suggest playing 19 lands, 4 Abundant Growths, 3 Oaths of Nissa and 3 Birds of Paradise. In my testing, especially after SB, Growth is much better than Oath. Putting Growth on fetchland not only prevents you from loosing life, but as well you can later recover it with E-Witness. Oath of Nissa on the other hand is crazy good, however after sideboard you are loosing quite a lots of creatures/lands/planeswalkers, so it CAN miss. (It did it too me twice). In addition, 2 Oaths is not crazy good with curio (can bounce, however you cant chain them) which might be important.
I would call this version planeswalker-tokens version, and Command/Karn planeswalker-distruption version. I need to test this version asap for GP Bologna, however I still feel correct way is to ... play both between MD/SB. However ... In your version I would play 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as well as some worships. Both cards are perfect for this version and I really dont understand why you dont have them somewhere.
I would play more fetchlands as well. I know this is a 2 color deck, however fetchlands are really important with curio on board. You can protect your nykthos with it. You can use your nykthos additional time with it. Sometimes shuffling your deck is important (you fe. put hoof on bottom with your oath)
I dont really understand your SB. Kitchen finks? Oath of Chandra? Silklash Spider? Reclamation Sage? FULLMINATOR MAGE(how you want to cast this guy on turn 2?) What are these cards for and WHY those? Seal of primordium > Sage. Disciple of Nissa > Kitchen finks. Bonfire > Oath of Chandra. Crumble to dust/Blood moon (yes, I would play this as it does not hurt us THAT much, especially after board) > fullminator mage. Dont want to bash you, however after playing so much with this deck (from the start of the previous thread) I still see some suboptimal cards, so please say for what matchups you have those cards.
I have been watching your walker build grow and change. I started brewing with you but I got distracted with my crazy deck ideas that I just have to build. I do really love this deck idea. I do have few questions.
1) how is Nissan vs Courser. ( token and buff vs life gain.
This has actually been the most interesting comparison I've had in a very long time. I'm literally to a point now where I think you could play either and be perfectly content either way (with the only possible difference is maybe playing 19 lands and four Courser's vs. 20 and three Nissa's). While they are very different, they perform very similar functions in the deck. Nissa has a few benefits I've recently enjoyed given the meta. She (a) can create more than one blocker, (b) doesn't get board wiped and is generally hard to remove (in my local group they started figuring out that enchantment removal was really good against me ), (c) she allows for different infinite combos (any combination of two walkers will work as long as one of the walkers creates 7-mana with Nissa and because they create so many tokens it's not hard to get to 7-creatures for Xenagos..), and (d) she has added benefit with Garruk's ultimate, adds counters to all of our tokens/dorks, and creates more creatures for both Xenagos and Craterhoof.
Courser felt "faster" (as it dug through the deck) and had the benefit of letting us see the top of the deck...but I'll be playing Nissa for the time being given the above. I do think that they both work well, however.
2) did you know you are one land short on your list?
I fixed it. Should have been 9 Forests. Thank you!
3) how is the synergy with the token ETB to cloudstone to bounce visionary. if that works have you bounce the craterhoof for 2X the fun?
It works. You can use a creature token to bounce a Visionary or Craterhoof (or Hydra) on board. It's a synergy I've used quite a bit.
4) I really like the side board move you did with ETB effect or good bounce targets. Have you thought about main boarding an acidic slime one of my fav's to bounce. Also I would side the slime over fulminater. you could drop either one on turn 2 and with the slime you can do it again and again.
Yeah...I've gone back and fourth with the sideboard; but I've found thus far that cards that felt more "natural" the deck end up working out much better. I was playing Avalanche Riders for a while, but I never seemed to bounce and reuse them (so the 3-drop Fulminator Mage seemed better.) I'll have to try Acidic Slime. My only concern ever was the fact that it cost 5-mana; but I should probably try it just in case.
5) with Nissa oath have you thought about adding some random crazy walker just for fun? The look on your opponents if you just dropped a Nicol Bolas. lol
I actually looked into Nicol Bolas Between Oath of Nissa, Genesis Hydra, and our land enchantments...we can play very nearly every planeswalker there is. Karn Liberated just seemed like the best option so far. I honestly should probably look into other walkers (and it makes every spoiler season that much more exciting!)
Stompy is going to be more towards the Primeval Titan, leatherback baloth, Khalni Hydra type cards. Heavy devotion with a big body that is hard to remove or comes down too early to deal with effectively. These decks like PrimeTime because he gets the utility lands like Kessig Wolf Run and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. The core is usually the same. Some # of Arbor Elf. I am pretty sure we all agree on 4. At least two Birds of Paradise. Oath of Nissa is a new staple for us and works well with our resident walker, Garruk Wildspeaker. Oath is a massive card advantage for us. Some "Stompy" builds are going the all out punishing route with Gruul Ragebeast: see JaishivaJai's list above! Genesis Hydra is also a staple across all the archetypes as it allows us to filter for a fattie or for utility if we need it. And, as pointed out by JaishivaJai, it hits the field after the card it tutors. So, some shenanigans ensue at times, i.e. Gruul Ragebeast "fight" mechanic. Hornet Queen is an all-around good top-ender. It stops some of the peskier decks like Delver of Secrets and BU Fairies. And it has awesome synergy with Sarkhan Vol and Craterhoof Behemoth. All in all you can't really go bad with this deck. It is so much fun and there is so much variety. I hope you have fun building and we would love to see what you have come up with! Fresh eyes on this archetype may do us all some good.
Mono-green is definitely doable. There are lots of strong card choices that don't touch red at all. It's also easy to lightly splash a color without investing in a fetch-shock manabase. If you use Birds of Paradise (and I think we're mostly in agreement that you should, in order to have more turn 1 ramp spells after maxing out on Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl), and perhaps Abundant Growth, you will almost always have red when you need it. I don't think Primeval Titan is worth 6 mana without a strong utility land, but Kessig wolf run could be supported by a single Stomping Ground, cinder glade, or even a mountain. No need to break the bank
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4 Arbor Elf
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Strangleroot Geist
2 Eternal Witness
3 Primeval Titan
2 Hornet Queen
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Abundant Growth
4 Genesis Wave
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Treetop Village
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Grounds
9 Forrest
Honestly I have loved the addition of Hornet Queen. She has synergy with Xenagos, a Gurrak Ult with her on the board is lethal, gives you a flyer for Kessig. I have also been very happy with Treetop Village, its done a surprising amount of work. The deck has been fast and pretty consistent, I am thinking about taking a Hornet Queen out for another Strangleroot Geist but I'm not sure that it matters.
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Thoughts?d
P.S.
I just wanted to let everyone know I now have three green devotion decks...woot lol ( walker combo- still following CurdBros on that one, Thooth and nail, and the third is my crazy brew decks - that way I dont have to take apart the deck over and over .)
I have been watching your walker build grow and change. I started brewing with you but I got distracted with my crazy deck ideas that I just have to build. I do really love this deck idea. I do have few questions. 1) how is Nissan vs Courser. ( token and buff vs life gain.) 2) did you know you are one land short on your list? 3) how is the synergy with the token ETB to cloudstone to bounce visionary. if that works have you bounce the craterhoof for 2X the fun? 4) I really like the side board move you did with ETB effect or good bounce targets. Have you thought about main boarding an acidic slime one of my fav's to bounce. Also I would side the slime over fulminater. you could drop either one on turn 2 and with the slime you can do it again and again. . 5) with Nissa oath have you thought about adding some random crazy walker just for fun? The look on your opponents if you just dropped a Nicol Bolas. lol
I normally don't play it first turn. Would rather play Arbor elf or utopia sprawl first turn. The elf is the first choice. Now I have played it first turn off mulligans looking for my 2nd land drop. (Didn't have elf or utopia in my hand)
Oath digs for lands too. And it adds a permanent 1 devotion. And it doesn't just draw or filter 2 like the other best 1 drop cantrips. It lets you look at your top 3, which is crazy good. It's definitely not as good in a deck with tons of noncreature/planeswalker spells though.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
The real reason Oath of Nissa is really great is that it keeps you from mulliganing too often. I only mulliganed twice out of 8 games at modern night at my local games store last week. If you are running only 20 lands and have 4 Nykthos and 1 Kessig Wolf Run, that leaves you with only 15 lands in the entire deck that can tap for Green mana! This card takes all of the pressure off of keeping a one land hand if you draw it as well. You can't discount the power of digging for another 1 cost mana dork on turn 2 to keep the ramp up.
The deck looks like it can do great things. I would be wary of running 2 Kessig Wolf Run myself for the reasons mentioned above. You only have 14 lands that can tap for green mana, it will probably lead to too many mulligans. I still draw hands with no lands or only Nykthos/Wolf Runs in them and I only play one copy of Wolf Run. I tested playing 2 before myself, the deck was too clunky. One thought would be to add a sylvan scrying or Primeval Titan to the deck so you can more consistently find Wolf Run while only running one copy.
I see that you aren't running Oath of Nissa, which may be a perfectly fine choice. Without that extra card draw/filter permanent, I would recommend 4 Elvish Visionary. They are so much better than they look. Top decking that with an empty hand but with tons of mana (which happens a lot as we play everything out quickly) will allow you to play an extra card that turn. It seems small, but it does big things with the cards revealed. I would cut 1 or 2 BTEs for the visionary.
Diversifying your mana rampers is important. I've survived Damnation before only due to the fact that I had 3 enchantment ramp cards in play when it happened. I would recommend 1-2 copies of Fertile Ground and/or Courser of Kruphix. (Though Kruphix is a creature, it is the land he puts into play that actually does the ramping.) I play 2-3 copies of Courser in my 60 and he is never disappointing. It's surprising how relevant having a 4 toughness body on turn 2 or 3 is to shutting down aggro decks. He also combos with fetchlands and the Elvish Visionary or Oath of Nissa to shuffle away unwanted cards from the top of your library before your drawstep.
As I read over your list, I can see that you are taking adavantage of Sarkhan's +1 ability with your ramping creatures to make them ramp the turn they come out. This was trying to take advantage of this in an early build. I find that enchant lands tend to have an edge over this as we can use Garruk or Arbor Elf to take advantage of them twice the turn they come out.
As to the discussion of Xenagos the Reveler and Sarkhan Vol as planeswalker choices. They are both good! I've upped my count of Xenagos the reveler to 2 now and have been quite happy to see him every time I do. He can almost singlehandedly stall out an opponents board early/mid game with his 2/2's. The ability of a planewalker to create a creature to protect itself is SO very strong. I used to play with 2 Sarkhans and found that I often needed mana ramp or more creatures instead of him. Xenagos does both. This is not to discount Sarkhan, he is amazing and it's surprising how often you can end up with a bunch of dragons I would say the thing to consider with Sarkhan is making sure your curve is on track, have plenty of 1-3 mana cost creatures to help protect him and run only 1-2 copies.
When I first put my deck together I was running two copies of Sylvan Scrying because I thought the need of getting Nykthos every game was that important, but have gone away from it because of how much it slows me down.
A problem that everyone has run into at somepoint is having a lot of mana on turn 3 or 4 but no where to put it, so that's why I have been running the extra kessig. That puts me at 8 cards that I can throw all of that mana into (2x wave, 4x Hydra, 2x Kessig). I'm not sure if that number is too high or low.
I'm sure I will make a million more changes, but it's been fun and I can't wait to find that "perfect" list.
I also dropped Sylvan Scrying, I found it usually to be too slow also. Courser of Kruphix is better especially when paired with Oath of Nissa.
The turn 3/4 out of stuff to do with mana was mostly solved in my deck with Genesis Hydra and Eidolon of Blossoms. Eidolon on turn 4 gives you another card you can probably play that turn. If you draw an enchantment, you get even more gas. If it's an Oath of Nissa you get a creature, 2 extra cards and "scry" 3. Or just draw into a Elvish visionary to keep drawing cards without an enchantment.
Eidolon has allowed me to REALLY turn on the gas on turn 4/5 on more than one occasion. It's worked so well that I was able to play 2 of him, plus an arbor elf, an extra garruk which I drew to keep the ramp going, then cast Genesis Hydra to reveal a Craterhoof. I was so caught up in the playing out cards to get crazy devotion and mana that I forgot despite having something like 7 creatures out, only 2 were available to attack with due to summoning sickness! Thus Craterhoofs effect was not as impressive as it could be. I recently swapped a Sarkhan Vol for a Craterhoof to help minimize this. If Gen. Hydra had revealed him instead my army would probably have been more effective.
Here's my decklist built around a massive draw card engine that almost never fails, Gen. Hydra and Craterhoof. Part of the deck's plan is to always make Gen. Hydra a 3 for one by revealing a card that draws me a card, or a planeswalker that can make a permanent the turn it comes out. He can be a 4 for 1 if it reveals Gruul Ragebeast. Ragebeast enters the battlefield first, allowing you to fight for 6 damage with opponent's creature. Then Gen. Hydra enters and he fights too! All this talk of Eidolon has me thinking I should put 4 back in the deck
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Elvish Visionary
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Genesis Hydra
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gruul Ragebeast
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Xenagos The Reveler
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Summoner's Pact
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Fertile Ground
4 Utopia Sprawl
Land 20
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Stomping Ground
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
7 Forest
2 Spellskite
2 Eternal Witness
2 Firespout
2 Beast Within
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Primal Command
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Acidic Slime
1 Vexing Shusher
This is a good point. I feel like the deck needs to have a turn 1 1-drop ramp spell; but with Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, and BOP...I'm at 12. I do have games, however, where I play either an Oath or Abundant Growth on turn 1 as well. It's not optimum; but it's not terrible. I will have to give that a try.
That's awesome! I'm working my way on having two different lists (the Walker Combo list and a list that's more Traditional/Aggro. I own Tooth and Nails as well; so I can always try those when/if I get a wild hair :). That's cool to have three lists...then you can quickly test and play whatever you're feeling that time (and it's a perfect way to test different versions against the same opponent!)
I think the scaling of ravine is nice but I feel like the games where man lands have really made the difference for me was when I had them early and activating for 2 mana was important. Or as another creature to use with a garruk ult/kessig
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Ok first of all.
Noticed Hoof is back, which is logical with Nissa, Garruk, Xenagos and Elvish Visionary.
I understand lack of BTE as well (imo with Karn version BTEs are just too good. Turn 2-3 Karn is broken as hell).
Sideboard Witness/Command package is fine, I like having this + some Karns in the SB as well.
In the MD I would suggest playing 19 lands, 4 Abundant Growths, 3 Oaths of Nissa and 3 Birds of Paradise. In my testing, especially after SB, Growth is much better than Oath. Putting Growth on fetchland not only prevents you from loosing life, but as well you can later recover it with E-Witness. Oath of Nissa on the other hand is crazy good, however after sideboard you are loosing quite a lots of creatures/lands/planeswalkers, so it CAN miss. (It did it too me twice). In addition, 2 Oaths is not crazy good with curio (can bounce, however you cant chain them) which might be important.
I would call this version planeswalker-tokens version, and Command/Karn planeswalker-distruption version. I need to test this version asap for GP Bologna, however I still feel correct way is to ... play both between MD/SB. However ... In your version I would play 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as well as some worships. Both cards are perfect for this version and I really dont understand why you dont have them somewhere.
I would play more fetchlands as well. I know this is a 2 color deck, however fetchlands are really important with curio on board. You can protect your nykthos with it. You can use your nykthos additional time with it. Sometimes shuffling your deck is important (you fe. put hoof on bottom with your oath)
I dont really understand your SB. Kitchen finks? Oath of Chandra? Silklash Spider? Reclamation Sage? FULLMINATOR MAGE(how you want to cast this guy on turn 2?) What are these cards for and WHY those? Seal of primordium > Sage. Disciple of Nissa > Kitchen finks. Bonfire > Oath of Chandra. Crumble to dust/Blood moon (yes, I would play this as it does not hurt us THAT much, especially after board) > fullminator mage. Dont want to bash you, however after playing so much with this deck (from the start of the previous thread) I still see some suboptimal cards, so please say for what matchups you have those cards.
1) how is Nissan vs Courser. ( token and buff vs life gain.
This has actually been the most interesting comparison I've had in a very long time. I'm literally to a point now where I think you could play either and be perfectly content either way (with the only possible difference is maybe playing 19 lands and four Courser's vs. 20 and three Nissa's). While they are very different, they perform very similar functions in the deck. Nissa has a few benefits I've recently enjoyed given the meta. She (a) can create more than one blocker, (b) doesn't get board wiped and is generally hard to remove (in my local group they started figuring out that enchantment removal was really good against me ), (c) she allows for different infinite combos (any combination of two walkers will work as long as one of the walkers creates 7-mana with Nissa and because they create so many tokens it's not hard to get to 7-creatures for Xenagos..), and (d) she has added benefit with Garruk's ultimate, adds counters to all of our tokens/dorks, and creates more creatures for both Xenagos and Craterhoof.
Courser felt "faster" (as it dug through the deck) and had the benefit of letting us see the top of the deck...but I'll be playing Nissa for the time being given the above. I do think that they both work well, however.
2) did you know you are one land short on your list?
I fixed it. Should have been 9 Forests. Thank you!
3) how is the synergy with the token ETB to cloudstone to bounce visionary. if that works have you bounce the craterhoof for 2X the fun?
It works. You can use a creature token to bounce a Visionary or Craterhoof (or Hydra) on board. It's a synergy I've used quite a bit.
4) I really like the side board move you did with ETB effect or good bounce targets. Have you thought about main boarding an acidic slime one of my fav's to bounce. Also I would side the slime over fulminater. you could drop either one on turn 2 and with the slime you can do it again and again.
Yeah...I've gone back and fourth with the sideboard; but I've found thus far that cards that felt more "natural" the deck end up working out much better. I was playing Avalanche Riders for a while, but I never seemed to bounce and reuse them (so the 3-drop Fulminator Mage seemed better.) I'll have to try Acidic Slime. My only concern ever was the fact that it cost 5-mana; but I should probably try it just in case.
5) with Nissa oath have you thought about adding some random crazy walker just for fun? The look on your opponents if you just dropped a Nicol Bolas. lol
I actually looked into Nicol Bolas Between Oath of Nissa, Genesis Hydra, and our land enchantments...we can play very nearly every planeswalker there is. Karn Liberated just seemed like the best option so far. I honestly should probably look into other walkers (and it makes every spoiler season that much more exciting!)