Thanks for bringing him up again. Your comment about Genesis Wave with Gruul Ragebeast made me realize that you can get 2 kills by revealing him with a Gen. Hydra (which I play) as the revealed card comes down first. I will add a copy to my deck!
What are some of the biggest problems you face with the deck?
Land destruction? (especially with the new Eldrazi deck playing tons of Ghost Quarter
Removal?
Aggro?
Counterspells/control?
Or more generally; what is the weakness of the deck?
Would it be worth it to include Kitchen FinksStrangleroot Geist or even Predator Ooze(too bad it dies to dismember) against the new Eldrazi deck?
Since they provide jump blockers and resilient devotion.
I love all the new and exciting decklists in this thread. This Deck is just great because with the devotion core you can change up the deck to something completely different. I think this is a huge advantage - with having one deck you can transform it fairly quickly into something else with just a couple of cards and have a different experience playing it. It's like owning atlest 3 Decks.
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Modern: GNykthos Devotion - Eldrazi Tron - RW Boros Burn - UW UW Control
One of the advantages of the Genesis Hydra is that its trigger is on cast, so even if they counter you still get to dig, also the extra body is nice sometimes on smaller waves.
Another advantage is that Oath of Nissa finds it - having to put Genesis Wave/Tooth on the bottom after an Oath is pretty painful, and Genesis Hydra doesn't have that issue.
Just thought I'd follow up on what I said a page or two ago. I've been playing with two copies of Gruul Ragebeast for the past couple days and I have to say, I've won almost every game that thing comes down. It literally turns every genesis wave you play into a pseudo board wipe. It turns every creature in your deck into direct damage. Acidic slime you can basically add "destroy target creature" to it's text. Garruk's -1 turns into deal 3 damage to target creature. Hornet Queen as mentioned before just wipes. If you are playing a big mana build it is worth trying out at the very least.
That is a really great effect for us. I've used Domri Rade before just to have access to the "fight" affect. I can totally see it being a useful ability (aince Ragebeast essentially reads, "when ETB destroy target creature opponent controls")...there is limits of course (as your creatures still get damage and you are forced to fight your creatures) and there are a lot of great options for us at 7-mana...but it is certainly a card we should keep in our arsenal of options...especially in a aggro-heavy meta.
What are some of the biggest problems you face with the deck?
Land destruction? (especially with the new Eldrazi deck playing tons of Ghost Quarter
Removal?
Aggro?
Counterspells/control?
Or more generally; what is the weakness of the deck?
Would it be worth it to include Kitchen FinksStrangleroot Geist or even Predator Ooze(too bad it dies to dismember) against the new Eldrazi deck?
Since they provide jump blockers and resilient devotion.
I love all the new and exciting decklists in this thread. This Deck is just great because with the devotion core you can change up the deck to something completely different. I think this is a huge advantage - with having one deck you can transform it fairly quickly into something else with just a couple of cards and have a different experience playing it. It's like owning atlest 3 Decks.
It's been pretty well summed up; but I moved to Genesis Hydra for a couple reasons:
1. If countered, you still get the card your are digging for.
2. Often times you get a body that outclasses any creature the opponent has. This has been especially useful against Eldrazi lately (as they really struggle with a 6/6, 7/7, 10/10, etc. on the board.
3. It adds 2 devotion to the board.
4. It can be "grabbed" with Oath of Nissa...this was actually kind of the "final straw" that pushed me over to Hydra.
5. It can be "bounced" and re-used with Cloudstone Curio to keep digging and putting cards on the field.
To be honest, until Oath of Nissa; even with all of the other benefits I still couldn't justify getting rid of Genesis Wave. There are just so many match-ups where a Wave is just game over. Genesis Wave is ridiculously powerful (more powerful than Genesis Hydra) as it is often a X-for-1 where X is HUGE...so there had to be a lot of synergy to make up for the loss in power. There are still match ups now where I wish I had Wave...Eldrazi may even be one of them...but I've found the multiple synergies with Hydra (especially with the use of Craterhoof) push it to a great place.
The biggest issues I've faced playing Green Devotion decks include:
1. Having enough cards - We tend to race through our hand and get to "top deck mode" rather quickly. This can especially hurt us if they board wipe our early board. This is why we need so much card draw. You can even watch streams and YouTube Videos with the deck where the steramer is just hoping to draw a 5+ CMC spell for 3+ turns because they are out of cards and want "business" spells. This can sometimes give our opponents more time than we want to. This is a historic issue with green ramp decks in general; and we're fortunate to have access to cards that greatly reduce this (planeswalkers, ETB draw card permanents, etc.) The balance can be tough (i.e. "business spells" vs. "cycle spells" but Oath of Nissa was an absolutely bonkers addition to our archetype that drastically reduced this issue.
2. Land Destruction - This is especially true of those decks that play a lot of land-auras. It REALLY hurts if you have placed an Utopia Sprawl and an Overgrowth on a Forest (or more) and the opponent Ghost Quarter's it. The increase in land hate recently in Modern has kinda pushed us to playing less land auras; but we still have to play them.
3. Hyper-fast Combo - We tend to be weak (game one) to decks like Goyro's Vengeance, Twin (now gone), Amulet (now gone), Infect, etc. Basically any deck that wins on average on turn 3.5 -ish we are slower than (as we win on average on turn 4 - 4.5 depending on the build). We have the luxury of having potential turn 3 (and some even turn 2) wins; but on average we are slower than the absolute fastest combo decks in the format. we are of course more resilient and more consistent than those deck; but we lose a little speed for this. When this is combined with the fact that we play very little (if any) main-deck disruption//removal (as it doesn't follow our plan A); we are often left racing these decks in game one. We do have good board options against many of the decks; but sideboarding is a delecate art for our decks too.
4. Playing the right type of removal/disruption for our deck - This isn't really a weakness as much as it is something we have to play closer attention to than most other decks. Our boards have to be built in a way that is slightly different from other decks. We have access to a ton of mana but we also prefer to play permanents; so we tend to prefer permanent-based disruption/removal where possible. Again, this is more of a thing to keep in mind rather than a "weakness" (as we have some amazing options); but it's worth mentioning.
I would say these are our three biggest weaknesses in the Modern meta. We do have the "can draw the wrong half of the deck" issue; but that is a fact with every deck. Many of the weaknesses have been drastically reduced by this community finding the best cards to play and how to build the most balanced decks possible.
And absolutely cards llike Kitchen Finks, Strangleroot Geist, and even Predator Ooze would be good against Eldrazi. The most surprising card I've enjoyed having vs. the Eldrazi decks has been Nissa, Voice of Zendikar...spitting out chump blockers every turn is crazy good against them (as they have only one trampler in most decks). The U/R version is a little tougher; but even then the sea of tokens they have to get through via our planeswalkers (Garruk, Nissa, and Xenagos) in most cases is too much for them. Once we get a 6/6 or bigger Hydra out there as well; the game momentum quickly moves to our favor. All of the cards you suggsted, however, are great devotion cards and should absolutely see play in many 75's. Great choices!
And you are absolutely right about the ability to "change up" the deck. That was actually one of my biggest hopes with the continued evolution of the Primer. I wanted to create a situation where we had the option to "evolve" our deck with each meta. We have great tools against nearly every deck..and with the great "core" we have; we can literally continue to mold our decks to fit the meta as it shifts. This is a super point. Thanks for posting it!
In response to the Hydra question above:
Tooth and Nail players tend to have a game winning combo it can put out, such as Emrakul and Xenagos, God of Revels. It requires that you have 9 mana. Genesis Hydra or Wave can still be effective with less than 9 mana.
I switched to Gen. Hydra recently from wave because it's able to be found by Oath of Nissa. It can also dig for my wincon, Craterhoof Behemoth for 10 mana instead of 11 required for the Wave. I found that my deck was lacking good midgame bodies, and Genesis Wave might only reveal my tiny creatures. (I run 3 Eidolon of Blossoms for card draw, but they are a wee 2/2.) With Genesis Hydra cast for 6+ mana, I know I'm getting at least one significant power/toughness creature from playing it. I find that Hydra is often a 3 for 1 in my deck. Get a Hydra, and another creature which draws a card or a planeswalker that can make a permanent, grab a Gruul Ragebeast to get a 4 for 1 if you can kill off 2 of the opponents creatures with the fight triggers.
Don't forget people also play Primal Command and Summoner's Pact. I'm running a Summoner's Pact right now as it can get me to Craterhoof for the least cost, allowing me to cast it earlier compared to Primal Command or Tooth and Nail.
Makes me feel even better about the Iona combo, as I hate playing bad cards (like Spike Feeder because of Archangel of Thune)
Will build my GW version tonight and playtest tomorrow, dunno if somebody already sleeved an Eldraggro but there should be some high tier like Merfolk Tron and Infect.
Interesting idea indeed. Having access to a powerful combo along with a powerful hoser in the same cards is certainly worth testing.
Listen to minutes 36:30-38:00! That was me at the SCG Regionals in Nashville!! So stoked that he spoke about Mono-G so positively!!
That's awesome Gnarlfist! Getting the word out there about Green Devotion (and to Gerry no less). Great job!
And I've found the same thing in my testing. I know I said it above; but we can generally just get "bigger" than them and from there we win. We can chump block early, and as long as they don't go chalice on 1 on the play (if we have a hand full of dorks); we're in ok shape. I haven't found Eldrazi to be that difficult of a match up to be entirely honest.
On the topic of having a hand full of dorks, is Savage Summoning worth a consideration as a 1-2 of in a potentially Chalice heavy meta or do you think there's better cards we can be playing/other strategies to employ to get around Chalice?
I really like the idea of ragebeast with hornet queen. Haven't tried the queen yet because I am not chording or using summoner's pact or TandN. Not sure how it would work out for me in a GWave deck. I also main 3 G Hydra now with my 3 GWave for that added dig effect. Super undervalued cared. I like the breakdown you put out as well. You are right that it shores up those mid game slots in a way that some of our other bodies can't. I almost want to try a deck with both GHydra and Wolfbriar elemental to turn that midgame point into a break away. I think G Hydra does that well. But, having another support card in that slot as well will make a big impact.
I think if Chalice really takes off, we may have to play Leyline of Lifeforce in our board. Then at minimum we still get our mana dorks (and we can just side out the 1-drop enchantments). Leylines are good in devotion anyways (they just tend to be very meta specific) and this one could be positioned well right now.
I really like the idea of ragebeast with hornet queen. Haven't tried the queen yet because I am not chording or using summoner's pact or TandN. Not sure how it would work out for me in a GWave deck. I also main 3 G Hydra now with my 3 GWave for that added dig effect. Super undervalued cared. I like the breakdown you put out as well. You are right that it shores up those mid game slots in a way that some of our other bodies can't. I almost want to try a deck with both GHydra and Wolfbriar elemental to turn that midgame point into a break away. I think G Hydra does that well. But, having another support card in that slot as well will make a big impact.
Good points. that's awesome that you have room for both wave and hydra. I know they nombo with one another; but I think they are powerful enough when cast to play both. I would love to have wave in some match ups.
I played in my first modern night ever at the card shop. (I'd only been playing against myself almost exclusively, every once in a while against the 2 of my friends that play serious modern up until tonight.) The deck did well, despite a 1-2 match record. I did win at least one game of every match.
Round 1 was against Tron with Ancient Stirrings, super Eldrazi creatures and Ugin.
Game 1 deck played perfectly. My opponent sat and durdled around with cantripping artifacts and Expidition Map to get out his Tron lands eventually. I beat him the next turn by playing Craterhoof on a giant field of creatures.
Game 2 He sideboarded Oblivion stone against me to great effect. He totally wiped a giant board I'd been creating, then played Ugin. Bought myself some time by banishing it with Primal Command, but lost in the end.
Game 3 I forgot to play a land before I cast Gen. Hydra, so I was 1 mana short of putting the Craterhoof Behemoth revealed into play for the win. Instead he O. stoned me the next turn.
Round 2 was vs. a hastily thrown together "good black stuff" kitchen table kind of deck.
He was playing Thoughtseize et. so I boarded in all my Eternal Witness which was very effective. He got out a Phyrexian Obliterator vs. my giant board of Mana dorks, Eidolons E. Witness et. Turn after he played it, I cast a giant Hydra for 13 mana and get Gruul Ragebeast. Ragebeast kills Obliterator. Due to having Nykthos and a ridiculous number of permanents, I'm still able to win the game despite having to sac 6 permanents to do so. Other game was won pretty easily.
Round 3 Another Tron! This one was w/u playing Path to Exile and Remand. I came to realize eventually that his deck did not really rely on the Urza lands like the previous deck did.
Game 1 I have a blast totally going off on turn 5 or 6. I had an Eidolon on the board, played another Eidolon to draw 2 cards. Cast Oath, draw and filter. Cast Utopia sprawl and Fertile ground on an already enchanted forest to get 2 more cards. Cast Arbor Elf and Birds then Garruk. Garruk untaps giant forest and nykthos, netting me a bunch of mana, cast another Garruk, rinse and repeat. I cast Genesis Hydra for 23 mana, allowing me to dig to Craterhoof. As I write this, I realized I wasn't even drawing 2 cards off the enchantments cast! Hoof gets exiled as soon he hits the battlefield, leaving me with only 1 buffed creature to attack with. I win the next turn anyway.
Game 2 I Beast within the only Tron land he has out on my turn 2. I was sure I could handle the 3/3 eventually, I was wrong. He isn't too slowed down by my land destruction as he plays out 2 Azorius Signet eventually. In the mean time he proceeds to cast 2 remands and 2 path to exile over my next few turns. This allows him to get in 12 damage with my 3/3 as I can't get down a creature to save my life. He gets to cast Ugin for the win.
Game 3 I mess up targeting an Expidition Map with my Acidic Slime. He had the mana to use it so he was able to get his final Urza land. Doh! I Primal Command away his Urza Tower on my next turn, he promptly plays another. Clearly the force was not with me this game. He proceeds to kick my ass after I waste 2 turns.
I had a blast! I made a couple of big mistakes, but I think fared pretty well considering I probably haven't played even 100 serious games of modern yet. I apologized once for taking so long, learning how to work the mana takes some crazy mental math! My opponents were impressed with the deck and encouraged me to come back and play again. Each opponent commented on how the deck seemed to have some very good plays.
Take away was that I want at leas t 2 Crumble to Dust in my Sideboard. If I had one of those instead of Acidic Slime against those Tron matchups I probably could have won both matches against them. It is also good against Eldrazi, I wish I could have played it. I've been siding out Eidolon and Coursers against Tron match ups. Those seem to be the cards I can afford to switch out in most cases for sideboard. Primal Command surprised me quite nicely. I didn't realize how often it came in useful banishing away other permanents. I will be playing 4 of these in my 75 with at least 3 Eternal Witness. I was skeptical of the power of this combo at first, but I'm a believer now. Gruul Ragebeast was great! It killed something useful each time he came out and allow Garruk's 3/3s to kill stuff too.
Yay! Thanks for all of the awesome support Devotion players! I had fun and I know I wouldn't have done nearly so well if it weren't for Curdbros and all of the other awesome players here. Cheers!
On the topic of having a hand full of dorks, is Savage Summoning worth a consideration as a 1-2 of in a potentially Chalice heavy meta or do you think there's better cards we can be playing/other strategies to employ to get around Chalice?
Vexing Shusher is probably better. Can be grabbed with Oath of Nissa, Genesis Hydra, Primal Command and others. It is repeatable, adds devotion and creature presence.
One last note from my playing tonight, Xenagos did great work. I was glad I traded out an Overgrowth into him instead. Being able to make a permanent or ramp while also being found with Oath of Nissa put it over the top. I was able to grab a second one for $6 at the cardshop. I like running 2 of him. Also does wonders for Craterhoof Behemoth.
i was very interested in this deck quite some time ago, started building it but ended up building elves. now my interest in it has returned. i was wondering if anyone has tried a green/blue version with the new kiora. her untapping nikthos and voyaging satyr/kiora's follower seems pretty good! red green to load up a massive banefire!
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I played in my first modern night ever at the card shop. (I'd only been playing against myself almost exclusively, every once in a while against the 2 of my friends that play serious modern up until tonight.) The deck did well, despite a 1-2 match record. I did win at least one game of every match.
Round 1 was against Tron with Ancient Stirrings, super Eldrazi creatures and Ugin.
Game 1 deck played perfectly. My opponent sat and durdled around with cantripping artifacts and Expidition Map to get out his Tron lands eventually. I beat him the next turn by playing Craterhoof on a giant field of creatures.
Game 2 He sideboarded Oblivion stone against me to great effect. He totally wiped a giant board I'd been creating, then played Ugin. Bought myself some time by banishing it with Primal Command, but lost in the end.
Game 3 I forgot to play a land before I cast Gen. Hydra, so I was 1 mana short of putting the Craterhoof Behemoth revealed into play for the win. Instead he O. stoned me the next turn.
Round 2 was vs. a hastily thrown together "good black stuff" kitchen table kind of deck.
He was playing Thoughtseize et. so I boarded in all my Eternal Witness which was very effective. He got out a Phyrexian Obliterator vs. my giant board of Mana dorks, Eidolons E. Witness et. Turn after he played it, I cast a giant Hydra for 13 mana and get Gruul Ragebeast. Ragebeast kills Obliterator. Due to having Nykthos and a ridiculous number of permanents, I'm still able to win the game despite having to sac 6 permanents to do so. Other game was won pretty easily.
Round 3 Another Tron! This one was w/u playing Path to Exile and Remand. I came to realize eventually that his deck did not really rely on the Urza lands like the previous deck did.
Game 1 I have a blast totally going off on turn 5 or 6. I had an Eidolon on the board, played another Eidolon to draw 2 cards. Cast Oath, draw and filter. Cast Utopia sprawl and Fertile ground on an already enchanted forest to get 2 more cards. Cast Arbor Elf and Birds then Garruk. Garruk untaps giant forest and nykthos, netting me a bunch of mana, cast another Garruk, rinse and repeat. I cast Genesis Hydra for 23 mana, allowing me to dig to Craterhoof. As I write this, I realized I wasn't even drawing 2 cards off the enchantments cast! Hoof gets exiled as soon he hits the battlefield, leaving me with only 1 buffed creature to attack with. I win the next turn anyway.
Game 2 I Beast within the only Tron land he has out on my turn 2. I was sure I could handle the 3/3 eventually, I was wrong. He isn't too slowed down by my land destruction as he plays out 2 Azorius Signet eventually. In the mean time he proceeds to cast 2 remands and 2 path to exile over my next few turns. This allows him to get in 12 damage with my 3/3 as I can't get down a creature to save my life. He gets to cast Ugin for the win.
Game 3 I mess up targeting an Expidition Map with my Acidic Slime. He had the mana to use it so he was able to get his final Urza land. Doh! I Primal Command away his Urza Tower on my next turn, he promptly plays another. Clearly the force was not with me this game. He proceeds to kick my ass after I waste 2 turns.
I had a blast! I made a couple of big mistakes, but I think fared pretty well considering I probably haven't played even 100 serious games of modern yet. I apologized once for taking so long, learning how to work the mana takes some crazy mental math! My opponents were impressed with the deck and encouraged me to come back and play again. Each opponent commented on how the deck seemed to have some very good plays.
Take away was that I want at leas t 2 Crumble to Dust in my Sideboard. If I had one of those instead of Acidic Slime against those Tron matchups I probably could have won both matches against them. It is also good against Eldrazi, I wish I could have played it. I've been siding out Eidolon and Coursers against Tron match ups. Those seem to be the cards I can afford to switch out in most cases for sideboard. Primal Command surprised me quite nicely. I didn't realize how often it came in useful banishing away other permanents. I will be playing 4 of these in my 75 with at least 3 Eternal Witness. I was skeptical of the power of this combo at first, but I'm a believer now. Gruul Ragebeast was great! It killed something useful each time he came out and allow Garruk's 3/3s to kill stuff too.
Yay! Thanks for all of the awesome support Devotion players! I had fun and I know I wouldn't have done nearly so well if it weren't for Curdbros and all of the other awesome players here. Cheers!
Glad to hear you're having fun with it and congrats on your first Modern night! The format's still very fun, and FNM should always be fun first, competitive second. It's a good thing you took away so much to learn from it. Time well-spent, imo.
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I had my Wednesday Night Modern at my LGS as well. I went back to several card choices I was sure worked from my original shell, but made some changes after considering some of Pedros's SB tech, and streamlined some stuff. The list:
Rd 1 - Esper Draw-Go, 2-0 winning the die roll.
Rd 2 - Skred Red, 1-2, winning the die roll.
Rd 3 - Jeskai Midrange, 2-0, losing the die roll.
Rd 4 - Lantern Control, 2-0, winning the die roll.
2nd place overall. Slaughter Games was great Turn 3 against the Lantern player (Ensnaring Bridge). Huntmaster flipped 3 times against Esper, but didn't do much else over the course of the event.
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Huntmaster is a good card, but as my friend on Skred pointed out, it doesn't really further our gameplan, but it warranted testing, and FNM is a great testing ground.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller is a lot better than it looks. It trades with most of the Eldrazi, it skews combat math against tap-out Control decks, and turns Genesis Hydra into slightly overcosted Fireballs. I'll be going back to 2 of him in this Meta.
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The return to Lotus Cobra over Birds, along with Courser #3, is why I'm at 21 land. I was quite happy with the sideboard all night. Fertile Ground being in the deck also gives me a little more security for ramping to 4. The 8th Edition art in Foil is very nice, too. I guess I'm shallow. Did not miss the Scavenging Oozees; there simply aren't enough graveyard interactions running around right now worth including him for. I may go back to this card eventually. Did not miss Primeval Titan either. Pedros has been on the non-titan wagon for a long time. I'd done titan-less lists in the past too, and I'm back on it. Most of the time he's just a big dummy who gets you a couple utility lands which is fine. I wanted a higher impact card in this slot. Hornet Queen shores up any midrangey creature matchups maindeck. Sideboard, I have the sweeper suite to turn to which makes those matchups better. Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is the most feared card in the deck other than 'Hoof. Getting him down turn 3 is real, and closes the game much faster than Primeval Titan.
Sorry for the double post, but I have tried Kiora in a light U splash, and she's very good. I haven't tried the other cards mentioned, though, but I'm not sure how high I am on Kiora's Follower. It warrants testing before outright dismissing it, but I'm not too excited about it. I feel if you want more Untappers, Voyaging Satyr is where you want to be.
Since Craterhoof Behemoth and Hornet Queen are making a comeback and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar seems to be alright in our Deck... did anyone consider running Avenger of Zendikar alsongside/instead of Queen? Both cost the same mana and you are trading Flying+Deathtouch for the ability to go wider and bigger plus he synergizes well with Nissa's +1.
I played in my first modern night ever at the card shop. (I'd only been playing against myself almost exclusively, every once in a while against the 2 of my friends that play serious modern up until tonight.) The deck did well, despite a 1-2 match record. I did win at least one game of every match.
Round 1 was against Tron with Ancient Stirrings, super Eldrazi creatures and Ugin.
Game 1 deck played perfectly. My opponent sat and durdled around with cantripping artifacts and Expidition Map to get out his Tron lands eventually. I beat him the next turn by playing Craterhoof on a giant field of creatures.
Game 2 He sideboarded Oblivion stone against me to great effect. He totally wiped a giant board I'd been creating, then played Ugin. Bought myself some time by banishing it with Primal Command, but lost in the end.
Game 3 I forgot to play a land before I cast Gen. Hydra, so I was 1 mana short of putting the Craterhoof Behemoth revealed into play for the win. Instead he O. stoned me the next turn.
Round 2 was vs. a hastily thrown together "good black stuff" kitchen table kind of deck.
He was playing Thoughtseize et. so I boarded in all my Eternal Witness which was very effective. He got out a Phyrexian Obliterator vs. my giant board of Mana dorks, Eidolons E. Witness et. Turn after he played it, I cast a giant Hydra for 13 mana and get Gruul Ragebeast. Ragebeast kills Obliterator. Due to having Nykthos and a ridiculous number of permanents, I'm still able to win the game despite having to sac 6 permanents to do so. Other game was won pretty easily.
Round 3 Another Tron! This one was w/u playing Path to Exile and Remand. I came to realize eventually that his deck did not really rely on the Urza lands like the previous deck did.
Game 1 I have a blast totally going off on turn 5 or 6. I had an Eidolon on the board, played another Eidolon to draw 2 cards. Cast Oath, draw and filter. Cast Utopia sprawl and Fertile ground on an already enchanted forest to get 2 more cards. Cast Arbor Elf and Birds then Garruk. Garruk untaps giant forest and nykthos, netting me a bunch of mana, cast another Garruk, rinse and repeat. I cast Genesis Hydra for 23 mana, allowing me to dig to Craterhoof. As I write this, I realized I wasn't even drawing 2 cards off the enchantments cast! Hoof gets exiled as soon he hits the battlefield, leaving me with only 1 buffed creature to attack with. I win the next turn anyway.
Game 2 I Beast within the only Tron land he has out on my turn 2. I was sure I could handle the 3/3 eventually, I was wrong. He isn't too slowed down by my land destruction as he plays out 2 Azorius Signet eventually. In the mean time he proceeds to cast 2 remands and 2 path to exile over my next few turns. This allows him to get in 12 damage with my 3/3 as I can't get down a creature to save my life. He gets to cast Ugin for the win.
Game 3 I mess up targeting an Expidition Map with my Acidic Slime. He had the mana to use it so he was able to get his final Urza land. Doh! I Primal Command away his Urza Tower on my next turn, he promptly plays another. Clearly the force was not with me this game. He proceeds to kick my ass after I waste 2 turns.
I had a blast! I made a couple of big mistakes, but I think fared pretty well considering I probably haven't played even 100 serious games of modern yet. I apologized once for taking so long, learning how to work the mana takes some crazy mental math! My opponents were impressed with the deck and encouraged me to come back and play again. Each opponent commented on how the deck seemed to have some very good plays.
Take away was that I want at leas t 2 Crumble to Dust in my Sideboard. If I had one of those instead of Acidic Slime against those Tron matchups I probably could have won both matches against them. It is also good against Eldrazi, I wish I could have played it. I've been siding out Eidolon and Coursers against Tron match ups. Those seem to be the cards I can afford to switch out in most cases for sideboard. Primal Command surprised me quite nicely. I didn't realize how often it came in useful banishing away other permanents. I will be playing 4 of these in my 75 with at least 3 Eternal Witness. I was skeptical of the power of this combo at first, but I'm a believer now. Gruul Ragebeast was great! It killed something useful each time he came out and allow Garruk's 3/3s to kill stuff too.
Yay! Thanks for all of the awesome support Devotion players! I had fun and I know I wouldn't have done nearly so well if it weren't for Curdbros and all of the other awesome players here. Cheers!
That's awesome that you were able to bring the deck out and play! You're going to make mistakes...that's no biggy. The nice thing about playing the deck is that you will only get better and better (and there is no better way to quickly learn and improve than playing the deck).
Sorry for the double post, but I have tried Kiora in a light U splash, and she's very good. I haven't tried the other cards mentioned, though, but I'm not sure how high I am on Kiora's Follower. It warrants testing before outright dismissing it, but I'm not too excited about it. I feel if you want more Untappers, Voyaging Satyr is where you want to be.
No biggy on the double post. It's only really a problem if people get in the habit of posting thought after thought right in a row without putting them in the same post (or if someone does it habitually).
That's cool to hear about some of your changes. And I totally agree that sometimes cards may not work; but you HAVE to test them. It's the only sure way to know they don't work. I've had plenty of cards that seemed "odd" on paper by worked out amazingly in the deck. Testing a card gives you a surefire way of being certain whether you want it in the deck or not. So even if Huntmaster didn't work; now you know that and it won't be stuck in the back of your head....well done on your 3-1 by the way.
I had one of my "can't sleep so I'll browse the gatherer " nights. In my half asleep adventure I can across this little guy Prismatic Omen . Didn't really hit me till I looked in my deck building binder. Will all of your lands counting as all basic types two things came to mind. 1) spreading sea's won't make utopia sprawl fall off. 2) all your lands are now mountains.... as in makes valakut a very possible alternative win con. I had to try it out. So I took apart my tooth and name and went back to CurdBros walker combo deck idea. With a little effort I was able to squeeze it in. Will have to test and see if this is the right fit. With cloudstone once you get valakut online you can just bounce a land every turn to bolt, bolt,bolt. I want to try and fit in either nissa renewal or kali heart expedition. Also genisis wave is basically a game finisher now. Just wanted to share this idea and see what people think.
Thoughts?
+++ edit+++
Does anybody know if in this scenario of you play another valakut to trigger do you get to bolt twice?
Prismatic Omen for a time in Modern (although it was a while ago now) was actually in some Scapeshift decks (mainly due to the awesome nature with Valakut); so you certainly can do what you are thinking. Neat idea! Curio does bounce lands...so you are right on that. And yes, the Valakut's abilities stack (so with two Valakuts and at least 5 "other" mountains...so lands with Omen) each new Mountain will do 6 damage! Interesting idea! You could just do a land-devotion deck (playing some really cool cards like Sakura Tribe Elder, etc. It's certainly worth trying to build and test.
So I came up with this initial list to start the brewing off with. By no means is this even close to being done. Also you will be in for a shock cause this list does not rune utopia sprawls or arbor elfs. enjoy.
There is a lot going on so I will start with the infinite landfall engine. Sakura-Tribe Scout and Retreat to Coralhelm are what makes it happen. Tap the scout to put a land from your hand into play . When the land fall triggers from Coralhelm untap the scout. Use either of the two bounce lands and return the bounce land to your hand from its ETB trigger. Rinse and Repeat. Now to add the fun, with two Coralhelm in play you can untap with one and scry 1 with the other to scry your whole deck.( you can do all of this at the end of your opponents turn fyi).Add the Hedron crab and you got auto mill. AddLotus Cobra now you have unlimited mana of any color. Add Retreat to Hagraand you can either beat down with a dork or leach and gain life ( does not target opponent). AddCourser of Kruphixand you have infinite life. Add Rampaging Baloths infinite 4/4 beast tokens. ..... Ooooo did i mention with Prismatic Omen in play thats unlimited bolts from Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. couple all of that with CurdBros Cloudstone Curio shenanigans.... You get the idea.......
The best part of this is the fact you can take it in ant direction. Want to burn face, do it. Want to play all the big bad dragons, do it. Want to make you opponent cry 14 different ways....DO IT!! I will be setting all my brew time to this idea after this weekends tournament. I would love to get anyone's ideas or advice. I really think this could be a new Green "x" devotion archetype.
Thoughts?
+++edit+++
Just thought of this when I went outside to check the mail. You can drop the forest to 4 and had 2 more fetchs.
Turn one scout
Turn 2 before land drop play oath. Play land then cobra and tap scout for a fetch . (1 mana from cobra) crack fetch (2 mana from cobra ) plus land. 3 mana to cast whatever 3 cmc.
Turn 3 . Start with 3 lands a scout and a cobra plus a 3 drop. Plus 4 to 6 cards in hand.
This list made me squee irl. Then I played about a dozen games with it. Not enough cohesion, kept being 1 to 2 mana short to doing anything meaningful, didn't make enough devotion to take full advantage of Nykthos until I was already well ahead (when I was.) My recommendations, -1 Hedron Crab, -1 Black Retreat, -1 Omen, +1 Eternal Witness, +1 Green retreat, +1 ???, play around with the mana base and find a way to generate better card advantage. I managed to get the infinite once. Was worth play testing the deck just to listen to my opponent laugh his ass off as he died a land-slid-y death.
I came across the same issue. I have been playing around with different builds and when I come up with a soild v2.0 I post it. Should be here in the next dayear or two.
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Genesis Hydra over Genesis Wave / Tooth and Nail
Because of Negate or because it provides a body and devotion or is there another reason?
What are some of the biggest problems you face with the deck?
Land destruction? (especially with the new Eldrazi deck playing tons of Ghost Quarter
Removal?
Aggro?
Counterspells/control?
Or more generally; what is the weakness of the deck?
Would it be worth it to include Kitchen Finks Strangleroot Geist or even Predator Ooze(too bad it dies to dismember) against the new Eldrazi deck?
Since they provide jump blockers and resilient devotion.
I love all the new and exciting decklists in this thread. This Deck is just great because with the devotion core you can change up the deck to something completely different. I think this is a huge advantage - with having one deck you can transform it fairly quickly into something else with just a couple of cards and have a different experience playing it. It's like owning atlest 3 Decks.
That is a really great effect for us. I've used Domri Rade before just to have access to the "fight" affect. I can totally see it being a useful ability (aince Ragebeast essentially reads, "when ETB destroy target creature opponent controls")...there is limits of course (as your creatures still get damage and you are forced to fight your creatures) and there are a lot of great options for us at 7-mana...but it is certainly a card we should keep in our arsenal of options...especially in a aggro-heavy meta.
It's been pretty well summed up; but I moved to Genesis Hydra for a couple reasons:
1. If countered, you still get the card your are digging for.
2. Often times you get a body that outclasses any creature the opponent has. This has been especially useful against Eldrazi lately (as they really struggle with a 6/6, 7/7, 10/10, etc. on the board.
3. It adds 2 devotion to the board.
4. It can be "grabbed" with Oath of Nissa...this was actually kind of the "final straw" that pushed me over to Hydra.
5. It can be "bounced" and re-used with Cloudstone Curio to keep digging and putting cards on the field.
To be honest, until Oath of Nissa; even with all of the other benefits I still couldn't justify getting rid of Genesis Wave. There are just so many match-ups where a Wave is just game over. Genesis Wave is ridiculously powerful (more powerful than Genesis Hydra) as it is often a X-for-1 where X is HUGE...so there had to be a lot of synergy to make up for the loss in power. There are still match ups now where I wish I had Wave...Eldrazi may even be one of them...but I've found the multiple synergies with Hydra (especially with the use of Craterhoof) push it to a great place.
The biggest issues I've faced playing Green Devotion decks include:
1. Having enough cards - We tend to race through our hand and get to "top deck mode" rather quickly. This can especially hurt us if they board wipe our early board. This is why we need so much card draw. You can even watch streams and YouTube Videos with the deck where the steramer is just hoping to draw a 5+ CMC spell for 3+ turns because they are out of cards and want "business" spells. This can sometimes give our opponents more time than we want to. This is a historic issue with green ramp decks in general; and we're fortunate to have access to cards that greatly reduce this (planeswalkers, ETB draw card permanents, etc.) The balance can be tough (i.e. "business spells" vs. "cycle spells" but Oath of Nissa was an absolutely bonkers addition to our archetype that drastically reduced this issue.
2. Land Destruction - This is especially true of those decks that play a lot of land-auras. It REALLY hurts if you have placed an Utopia Sprawl and an Overgrowth on a Forest (or more) and the opponent Ghost Quarter's it. The increase in land hate recently in Modern has kinda pushed us to playing less land auras; but we still have to play them.
3. Hyper-fast Combo - We tend to be weak (game one) to decks like Goyro's Vengeance, Twin (now gone), Amulet (now gone), Infect, etc. Basically any deck that wins on average on turn 3.5 -ish we are slower than (as we win on average on turn 4 - 4.5 depending on the build). We have the luxury of having potential turn 3 (and some even turn 2) wins; but on average we are slower than the absolute fastest combo decks in the format. we are of course more resilient and more consistent than those deck; but we lose a little speed for this. When this is combined with the fact that we play very little (if any) main-deck disruption//removal (as it doesn't follow our plan A); we are often left racing these decks in game one. We do have good board options against many of the decks; but sideboarding is a delecate art for our decks too.
4. Playing the right type of removal/disruption for our deck - This isn't really a weakness as much as it is something we have to play closer attention to than most other decks. Our boards have to be built in a way that is slightly different from other decks. We have access to a ton of mana but we also prefer to play permanents; so we tend to prefer permanent-based disruption/removal where possible. Again, this is more of a thing to keep in mind rather than a "weakness" (as we have some amazing options); but it's worth mentioning.
I would say these are our three biggest weaknesses in the Modern meta. We do have the "can draw the wrong half of the deck" issue; but that is a fact with every deck. Many of the weaknesses have been drastically reduced by this community finding the best cards to play and how to build the most balanced decks possible.
And absolutely cards llike Kitchen Finks, Strangleroot Geist, and even Predator Ooze would be good against Eldrazi. The most surprising card I've enjoyed having vs. the Eldrazi decks has been Nissa, Voice of Zendikar...spitting out chump blockers every turn is crazy good against them (as they have only one trampler in most decks). The U/R version is a little tougher; but even then the sea of tokens they have to get through via our planeswalkers (Garruk, Nissa, and Xenagos) in most cases is too much for them. Once we get a 6/6 or bigger Hydra out there as well; the game momentum quickly moves to our favor. All of the cards you suggsted, however, are great devotion cards and should absolutely see play in many 75's. Great choices!
And you are absolutely right about the ability to "change up" the deck. That was actually one of my biggest hopes with the continued evolution of the Primer. I wanted to create a situation where we had the option to "evolve" our deck with each meta. We have great tools against nearly every deck..and with the great "core" we have; we can literally continue to mold our decks to fit the meta as it shifts. This is a super point. Thanks for posting it!
Tooth and Nail players tend to have a game winning combo it can put out, such as Emrakul and Xenagos, God of Revels. It requires that you have 9 mana. Genesis Hydra or Wave can still be effective with less than 9 mana.
I switched to Gen. Hydra recently from wave because it's able to be found by Oath of Nissa. It can also dig for my wincon, Craterhoof Behemoth for 10 mana instead of 11 required for the Wave. I found that my deck was lacking good midgame bodies, and Genesis Wave might only reveal my tiny creatures. (I run 3 Eidolon of Blossoms for card draw, but they are a wee 2/2.) With Genesis Hydra cast for 6+ mana, I know I'm getting at least one significant power/toughness creature from playing it. I find that Hydra is often a 3 for 1 in my deck. Get a Hydra, and another creature which draws a card or a planeswalker that can make a permanent, grab a Gruul Ragebeast to get a 4 for 1 if you can kill off 2 of the opponents creatures with the fight triggers.
Don't forget people also play Primal Command and Summoner's Pact. I'm running a Summoner's Pact right now as it can get me to Craterhoof for the least cost, allowing me to cast it earlier compared to Primal Command or Tooth and Nail.
Listen to minutes 36:30-38:00! That was me at the SCG Regionals in Nashville!! So stoked that he spoke about Mono-G so positively!!
Interesting idea indeed. Having access to a powerful combo along with a powerful hoser in the same cards is certainly worth testing.
That's awesome Gnarlfist! Getting the word out there about Green Devotion (and to Gerry no less). Great job!
And I've found the same thing in my testing. I know I said it above; but we can generally just get "bigger" than them and from there we win. We can chump block early, and as long as they don't go chalice on 1 on the play (if we have a hand full of dorks); we're in ok shape. I haven't found Eldrazi to be that difficult of a match up to be entirely honest.
Good points. that's awesome that you have room for both wave and hydra. I know they nombo with one another; but I think they are powerful enough when cast to play both. I would love to have wave in some match ups.
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Elvish Visionary
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Genesis Hydra
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gruul Ragebeast
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Xenagos The Reveler
1 Summoner's Pact
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Fertile Ground
4 Utopia Sprawl
Land 20
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Stomping Ground
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
7 Forest
2 Spellskite
2 Eternal Witness
2 Firespout
2 Beast Within
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Primal Command
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Acidic Slime
1 Dragonlord Atarka
Round 1 was against Tron with Ancient Stirrings, super Eldrazi creatures and Ugin.
Game 1 deck played perfectly. My opponent sat and durdled around with cantripping artifacts and Expidition Map to get out his Tron lands eventually. I beat him the next turn by playing Craterhoof on a giant field of creatures.
Game 2 He sideboarded Oblivion stone against me to great effect. He totally wiped a giant board I'd been creating, then played Ugin. Bought myself some time by banishing it with Primal Command, but lost in the end.
Game 3 I forgot to play a land before I cast Gen. Hydra, so I was 1 mana short of putting the Craterhoof Behemoth revealed into play for the win. Instead he O. stoned me the next turn.
Round 2 was vs. a hastily thrown together "good black stuff" kitchen table kind of deck.
He was playing Thoughtseize et. so I boarded in all my Eternal Witness which was very effective. He got out a Phyrexian Obliterator vs. my giant board of Mana dorks, Eidolons E. Witness et. Turn after he played it, I cast a giant Hydra for 13 mana and get Gruul Ragebeast. Ragebeast kills Obliterator. Due to having Nykthos and a ridiculous number of permanents, I'm still able to win the game despite having to sac 6 permanents to do so. Other game was won pretty easily.
Round 3 Another Tron! This one was w/u playing Path to Exile and Remand. I came to realize eventually that his deck did not really rely on the Urza lands like the previous deck did.
Game 1 I have a blast totally going off on turn 5 or 6. I had an Eidolon on the board, played another Eidolon to draw 2 cards. Cast Oath, draw and filter. Cast Utopia sprawl and Fertile ground on an already enchanted forest to get 2 more cards. Cast Arbor Elf and Birds then Garruk. Garruk untaps giant forest and nykthos, netting me a bunch of mana, cast another Garruk, rinse and repeat. I cast Genesis Hydra for 23 mana, allowing me to dig to Craterhoof. As I write this, I realized I wasn't even drawing 2 cards off the enchantments cast! Hoof gets exiled as soon he hits the battlefield, leaving me with only 1 buffed creature to attack with. I win the next turn anyway.
Game 2 I Beast within the only Tron land he has out on my turn 2. I was sure I could handle the 3/3 eventually, I was wrong. He isn't too slowed down by my land destruction as he plays out 2 Azorius Signet eventually. In the mean time he proceeds to cast 2 remands and 2 path to exile over my next few turns. This allows him to get in 12 damage with my 3/3 as I can't get down a creature to save my life. He gets to cast Ugin for the win.
Game 3 I mess up targeting an Expidition Map with my Acidic Slime. He had the mana to use it so he was able to get his final Urza land. Doh! I Primal Command away his Urza Tower on my next turn, he promptly plays another. Clearly the force was not with me this game. He proceeds to kick my ass after I waste 2 turns.
I had a blast! I made a couple of big mistakes, but I think fared pretty well considering I probably haven't played even 100 serious games of modern yet. I apologized once for taking so long, learning how to work the mana takes some crazy mental math! My opponents were impressed with the deck and encouraged me to come back and play again. Each opponent commented on how the deck seemed to have some very good plays.
Take away was that I want at leas t 2 Crumble to Dust in my Sideboard. If I had one of those instead of Acidic Slime against those Tron matchups I probably could have won both matches against them. It is also good against Eldrazi, I wish I could have played it. I've been siding out Eidolon and Coursers against Tron match ups. Those seem to be the cards I can afford to switch out in most cases for sideboard. Primal Command surprised me quite nicely. I didn't realize how often it came in useful banishing away other permanents. I will be playing 4 of these in my 75 with at least 3 Eternal Witness. I was skeptical of the power of this combo at first, but I'm a believer now. Gruul Ragebeast was great! It killed something useful each time he came out and allow Garruk's 3/3s to kill stuff too.
Yay! Thanks for all of the awesome support Devotion players! I had fun and I know I wouldn't have done nearly so well if it weren't for Curdbros and all of the other awesome players here. Cheers!
Vexing Shusher is probably better. Can be grabbed with Oath of Nissa, Genesis Hydra, Primal Command and others. It is repeatable, adds devotion and creature presence.
One last note from my playing tonight, Xenagos did great work. I was glad I traded out an Overgrowth into him instead. Being able to make a permanent or ramp while also being found with Oath of Nissa put it over the top. I was able to grab a second one for $6 at the cardshop. I like running 2 of him. Also does wonders for Craterhoof Behemoth.
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Glad to hear you're having fun with it and congrats on your first Modern night! The format's still very fun, and FNM should always be fun first, competitive second. It's a good thing you took away so much to learn from it. Time well-spent, imo.
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I had my Wednesday Night Modern at my LGS as well. I went back to several card choices I was sure worked from my original shell, but made some changes after considering some of Pedros's SB tech, and streamlined some stuff. The list:
4 Arbor Elf
4 Lotus Cobra
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
3 Genesis Hydra
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Acidic Slime
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Hornet Queen
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Non-Creature Spells (16)
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Oath of Nissa
2 Fertile Ground
2 Summoner's Pact
2 Primal Command
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
8 Green Fetches
6 Forest
3 Slaughter Games
3 Blood Moon
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Nylea's Disciple
1 Outpost Siege
Went 3-1 in matches, 7-2 in games.
Rd 1 - Esper Draw-Go, 2-0 winning the die roll.
Rd 2 - Skred Red, 1-2, winning the die roll.
Rd 3 - Jeskai Midrange, 2-0, losing the die roll.
Rd 4 - Lantern Control, 2-0, winning the die roll.
2nd place overall. Slaughter Games was great Turn 3 against the Lantern player (Ensnaring Bridge). Huntmaster flipped 3 times against Esper, but didn't do much else over the course of the event.
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Huntmaster is a good card, but as my friend on Skred pointed out, it doesn't really further our gameplan, but it warranted testing, and FNM is a great testing ground.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller is a lot better than it looks. It trades with most of the Eldrazi, it skews combat math against tap-out Control decks, and turns Genesis Hydra into slightly overcosted Fireballs. I'll be going back to 2 of him in this Meta.
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The return to Lotus Cobra over Birds, along with Courser #3, is why I'm at 21 land. I was quite happy with the sideboard all night. Fertile Ground being in the deck also gives me a little more security for ramping to 4. The 8th Edition art in Foil is very nice, too. I guess I'm shallow. Did not miss the Scavenging Oozees; there simply aren't enough graveyard interactions running around right now worth including him for. I may go back to this card eventually. Did not miss Primeval Titan either. Pedros has been on the non-titan wagon for a long time. I'd done titan-less lists in the past too, and I'm back on it. Most of the time he's just a big dummy who gets you a couple utility lands which is fine. I wanted a higher impact card in this slot. Hornet Queen shores up any midrangey creature matchups maindeck. Sideboard, I have the sweeper suite to turn to which makes those matchups better. Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is the most feared card in the deck other than 'Hoof. Getting him down turn 3 is real, and closes the game much faster than Primeval Titan.
No biggy on the double post. It's only really a problem if people get in the habit of posting thought after thought right in a row without putting them in the same post (or if someone does it habitually).
That's cool to hear about some of your changes. And I totally agree that sometimes cards may not work; but you HAVE to test them. It's the only sure way to know they don't work. I've had plenty of cards that seemed "odd" on paper by worked out amazingly in the deck. Testing a card gives you a surefire way of being certain whether you want it in the deck or not. So even if Huntmaster didn't work; now you know that and it won't be stuck in the back of your head....well done on your 3-1 by the way.
I came across the same issue. I have been playing around with different builds and when I come up with a soild v2.0 I post it. Should be here in the next dayear or two.