Been trying to tell people how powerful gifts is in storm for yeeaars.
Reminder to all, but specifically in reference to this post.
On the one hand, it's good to see a new version of Storm doing well. On the other hand, we all need to remember that posts in this thread still need to be constructive and on-topic. It's totally fine to talk about the merits of Gifts Storm and where it might shine. It's not okay to make "bragposts" or "told you so" posts that don't advance the thread discussion. Let's just keep it on deck development and the cards.
I am starting to think that the deck isn't completely dead. I still haven't lost a match on mtgo yet with my non gifts build. I have beaten jund and black white eldrazi pretty handily. Going forward I think it will be interesting due to the fact no one thinks it is a deck. We might have a chance for a bit where the meta is a bit soft to us.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
Been trying to tell people how powerful gifts is in storm for yeeaars.
Reminder to all, but specifically in reference to this post.
On the one hand, it's good to see a new version of Storm doing well. On the other hand, we all need to remember that posts in this thread still need to be constructive and on-topic. It's totally fine to talk about the merits of Gifts Storm and where it might shine. It's not okay to make "bragposts" or "told you so" posts that don't advance the thread discussion. Let's just keep it on deck development and the cards.
Carry on with the deck talk!
Sorry bud but thats not a brag post. As usual this entire site has it out for me.
All im saying is. "I have years of experience with Gifts, and yes, after all those years I can build an honest, formulated, tested opinion." What im saying is that storm isnt dead, and dont over react over the Probe ban because Gifts gives storm life. What i'm saying is that, that 5-0 wasn't a fluke, and that Gifts has real power. What i'm saying is yes, keep testing, keep pursuing that direction because the potential is there. The potential has been there, just not enough people have seen it, or believed in it, to test it. What i'm saying is believe, test, brew. Keep up the work, and don't give up, or shrug it off.
Been trying to tell people how powerful gifts is in storm for yeeaars.
Reminder to all, but specifically in reference to this post.
On the one hand, it's good to see a new version of Storm doing well. On the other hand, we all need to remember that posts in this thread still need to be constructive and on-topic. It's totally fine to talk about the merits of Gifts Storm and where it might shine. It's not okay to make "bragposts" or "told you so" posts that don't advance the thread discussion. Let's just keep it on deck development and the cards.
Carry on with the deck talk!
Sorry bud but thats not a brag post. As usual this entire site has it out for me.
All im saying is. "I have years of experience with Gifts, and yes, after all those years I can form an honest, formulated, tested opinion." What im saying is that storm isnt dead, and dont over react over the Probe ban because Gifts gives storm life.
The site doesn't have it out for you; you'll notice this was a reminder and not an actual warning/infraction. If you want to discuss any other warnings, infractions, or instances in which you think you have been treated unfairly, please PM me, the other Modern staff, and/or the admins to discuss it. Threads are not appropriate contexts in which to discuss those issues.
That all said, this post is not constructive which is why we are reminding users to avoid posts like it:
Been trying to tell people how powerful gifts is in storm for yeeaars.
On the other hand, this post you just wrote is much more constructive and would be totally okay.
I have years of experience with Gifts, and yes, after all those years I can form an honest, formulated, tested opinion. What im saying is that storm isnt dead, and dont over react over the Probe ban because Gifts gives storm life.
As long as users stick with constructive posts more like the latter rather than the former, this thread and deck will be on a good course.
This is the list I have been playing. I do have to say it may be anecdotal evidence so far. I plan on running it through a few leagues today which will hopefully give me a better idea. I also will probably be tweaking the sideboard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
With gifts you don't really need to dig too deep since it gives you all the utility you need. Anticipate grabs your creatures which you need for the turn three win and other quick wins.
Edit: Only played one league match so far, but beat a turn two chalice on one from sun and moon game one. Turns out when you run both ravings and reunion it is a lot less scary.
2-0 vs RG valakut? Died turn three both games. Only saw search, khalni, tribe elder and explore.
3-0 vs lantern control. Won game one through a surgical on manamorphose during the first time I tried to go off. Lost game two cause I forgot to board in echoing truth, and was one turn off killing him with electromancer when he milled me. Game three was pretty tight but was able to kill him through the full lock.
3-1 vs affinity, had some pretty bad draws game two and three off of heavy mulligans.
4-1 vs Bant Eldrazi, won game one since all he had to interact was a thought-knot and did not have a super fast clock. Killed him on like turn 6. Game two he was not ready for the blood moon thing in the ice plan, and just ground him out with that. I think I am going to make a video of this league since a lot of the matchups were pretty interesting.
Hello Guys,
As a fairly new Player (Started September 2016) I wanted to ask you if there is any playable List for a UR Storm with Pyromancer's Swath+Grapeshot combo.
Im asking this because I got some random cards for free (Lotus Bloom, Chromatic Star, Swath, Grapeshot) and wanted to build an Swath+Grapeshot combo deck.
https://deckbox.org/sets/1597284
This is the list im currently running, it lacks some cards I know, its due to my small card pool and also not having a lot of money to spend on cards, but im working on it.
Please share your thoughts about the Pyromancer's Swath + Grapeshot combo (if its even playable) and also share your lists if you dont mind.
I thought Lotus Blooms were typically only good in the Dragonstorm combo decks since you actually need to make 9 mana, whereas for our deck we do not. They also do not combo with either Goblin Electromancer, Past in Flames, or Pyromancer Ascension. But how have they been working for you?
It looks like your nephew's collection had the pieces of the Chapin-Nassif MonoRed Dragonston/Grapeshot deck. It featured two combos in it. 1 was the obvious Dragonstorm combo in which you cast Dragonstorm and get 4 Borgardan Hellkite/Hunted Dragon. The other combo in the deck was Pyromancer's Swath/Grapeshot. The deck also had the ability to just straight up burn people out. Your starting hand with that deck basically dictated what you would be doing. It was a fun deck. Here's a link to that deck http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Standard_Dragonstorm_deck
As you can see, everything is pretty much legal with some strict upgrades too! Rite of Flame is banned and that's the issue. The deck best ritual for a deck like this is Seething Song; also banned in Modern. So you're stuck with the usual rituals we have. I've tried using those rituals, but it just doesn't seem to click. Feel free to experiment. Again, you do get stuff like Lightning Bolt, which can replace Incinerate. You can even use a 1of Shard Volley to play more Bolts. But again, without any card selection it just doesn't work.
When Seething Song was banned, it killed this version of the deck and made Storm the way it is. Without Probe, it's even more unplayable. You would usually win using the Grapeshot/Swath combo or just using two Grapeshots in a turn. It wasn't that hard to build up a storm count and just double Grapeshot them on turn 3. But again, without Probe and Seething Song, it's not working.
Like everyone else, it looks like you'll have to go the Gifts route with this deck for the future. Even the Budget MonoRed versions cannot operate any longer. If you're playing casual, look at the Chapin Dragonstorm deck as that is the most likely version to make work with the cards you're telling me you have. With the burn in the deck, you just can kill the hatebears (or the Lodestone Golem in this case) and try to combo off your turn.
Oh for the SB, use Shattering Spree to counter the Chalice. You can Replicate it to kill a Chalice at 1 in SB games. Best of luck!
With the playing I have been doing I don't think we have to move to gifts, although it may end up being better. I do plan on testing it once I can actually play with Baral and will probably run it through a few leagues as well. If you are mostly mono red the empty can be really good, and it can take people by surprise, but you really want to be casting it on turn 2 or 3.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
I am really bad about posting videos consistently, which I hope to work on. I haven't played with swath in years because without seething song you lose a lot of the no engine combo turns, and current lists if you are going off you generally overkill. I used to play with muddle when I was playing pure pyromancer ascension combo, but generally having that be an electromancer or another engine is just better because you don't have to take the time to get it only to play it the turn after.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
I've been goofing around with storm since a little before the probe ban, has anyone just tried running it with Reach Through Mists in its place? Its almost as good for the deck, able to situationally be free or even gain you Mana with splice off of ritual and it cantrips just as much and at instant which isn't totally irrelevant. I've been playing some games with it lately and I haven't really been missing probe as much as you might think.
While the splice onto arcane is nice, I think we are more likely to want visions over it. I cannot say for sure since I did not play this one in modern, but played it a lot for the arcane combo in pauper. I think I would rather have something that draws me more cards though. I think the biggest loss with probe was not really the necro, but the perfect information we had to play with. That allowed us to out maneuver so many decks, and that is the part I am going to miss the most. I do like the idea of reach though, but as a single draw it just doesn't have the value I am looking for.
For everyone that was interested in the videos, match 4 and 5 is up know. For everyone else I am sorry I make pretty trash vids
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
But the reason probe was insane was because it could trigger ascension without paying mana. Being able to get a counter without paying mana is what led to the most quick ascension kills. It's a lot more difficult to trigger ascension without a free spell and then go off in the same turn. Peek is likely just not worth it.
Peek is probably the closest straight across replacement, but the issue with it is you can't check turn two to see if you can resolve an ascension or electromancer safely. I was never happy to pay mana for probe which is why I am more leaning towards replacing it with a spell that just draws a lot more cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
I guess that the things in the ice in the SB are there for aggro.
I've never tested increasing vengeance, I'll try it on mtgo if I can find some time. Any tips/experience on the card and how to best use it?
From the (limited) testing I got with a similar list, the gifts storm can beat most slow decks (it becomes possible to go off without an electromancer effect with enough lands and a full graveyard around turns 6-7), fighting through countermagic and discard works quite well (also due to the fact that the opponents I faced didn't always know what/when to counter or discard) but can race also well against fast non-interactive decks (if we can find an electromancer).
Merfolk and delver seem to be very difficult matchups however (especially merfolk). Have yet to face burn and affinity
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGO Username: Tajicyolo
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show Duel Commander:Kess High Tide Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
Could someone help me understand what Gifts does that allows the deck to win? I'm very confused as to how Gifts is able to replace Ascension without providing a similar effect (unless I'm completely thinking wrong? I'm honestly not sure.) Anyways, excited to see this deck continue to exist in any form after getting hit with another ban, I've been playing with it on and off for the past ~3 years and it's a little bit exciting to see something change from the stock list.
I think you're going about it all wrong. Gifts + electromancer + 7 mana = dead opponent. If you go back a few pages there is a link to the ritual gifts thread which should lay out the loop in more detail. But gifts is strong outside of the combo just because you can value gifts and get some good stuff. It's card advantage so helps a lot against jund but gets remanded which is rough.
@sol501 I guarantee that the thing in the ice plan helps with aggro. It allows you to play a pretty powerful tempo plan without hurting any of your gameplan against the aggro deck. In the last tournament I played with probe I just crapped on a zoo deck since thing blocks basically everything, and flipping two is so much damage. Even one is about a third of their life total. I think the card is probably too slow for affinity, but I have not been able to test that matchup very much with the things.
@KingBrago In the ascension decks increasing vengeance has always been win more. In gifts I like it a lot more since it is extra redundancy. Plus in a deck where your combo mana is a bit tighter the flashback on a ritual really helps, and the early game value you can get is great. Merfolk is a pretty rough matchup since they have a lot of spell interaction and a relatively fast clock. I feel like thing helps this matchup somewhat, but usually it is bolts to stay alive and then kill them. I haven't played against delver very much. I have played against grixis delver a bit and while the counters and kill spells are really annoying for gifts, I haven't found it too hard to stick an ascension and ride it to victory in this matchup.
@Morimacil I agree with everything you said about peek. If you are really concerned about uptapped lands against a control deck you could always play gigadrowse again, that used to be popular way back in the day.
@kobland Gifts makes sure you never run out of gas in your pif loop, and makes it that if you try to go off on turn three with an electromancer piece it won't have any chance of failure (outside interaction) if you cast gifts. Plus as LordOfTheShadows mentioned value gifts is a powerful play as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UR Storm UBWR Ad nauseam GW Hatebears
Standard - AETHERFLUX RESERVOIR????
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Reminder to all, but specifically in reference to this post.
On the one hand, it's good to see a new version of Storm doing well. On the other hand, we all need to remember that posts in this thread still need to be constructive and on-topic. It's totally fine to talk about the merits of Gifts Storm and where it might shine. It's not okay to make "bragposts" or "told you so" posts that don't advance the thread discussion. Let's just keep it on deck development and the cards.
Carry on with the deck talk!
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
Sorry bud but thats not a brag post. As usual this entire site has it out for me.
All im saying is. "I have years of experience with Gifts, and yes, after all those years I can build an honest, formulated, tested opinion." What im saying is that storm isnt dead, and dont over react over the Probe ban because Gifts gives storm life. What i'm saying is that, that 5-0 wasn't a fluke, and that Gifts has real power. What i'm saying is yes, keep testing, keep pursuing that direction because the potential is there. The potential has been there, just not enough people have seen it, or believed in it, to test it. What i'm saying is believe, test, brew. Keep up the work, and don't give up, or shrug it off.
The site doesn't have it out for you; you'll notice this was a reminder and not an actual warning/infraction. If you want to discuss any other warnings, infractions, or instances in which you think you have been treated unfairly, please PM me, the other Modern staff, and/or the admins to discuss it. Threads are not appropriate contexts in which to discuss those issues.
That all said, this post is not constructive which is why we are reminding users to avoid posts like it:
On the other hand, this post you just wrote is much more constructive and would be totally okay.
As long as users stick with constructive posts more like the latter rather than the former, this thread and deck will be on a good course.
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
Any reason Anticipate is better than Peer through Depths? Just because it can hit a land or a creature?
Edit: Only played one league match so far, but beat a turn two chalice on one from sun and moon game one. Turns out when you run both ravings and reunion it is a lot less scary.
2-0 vs RG valakut? Died turn three both games. Only saw search, khalni, tribe elder and explore.
3-0 vs lantern control. Won game one through a surgical on manamorphose during the first time I tried to go off. Lost game two cause I forgot to board in echoing truth, and was one turn off killing him with electromancer when he milled me. Game three was pretty tight but was able to kill him through the full lock.
3-1 vs affinity, had some pretty bad draws game two and three off of heavy mulligans.
4-1 vs Bant Eldrazi, won game one since all he had to interact was a thought-knot and did not have a super fast clock. Killed him on like turn 6. Game two he was not ready for the blood moon thing in the ice plan, and just ground him out with that. I think I am going to make a video of this league since a lot of the matchups were pretty interesting.
First three videos are up now. Here
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
I thought Lotus Blooms were typically only good in the Dragonstorm combo decks since you actually need to make 9 mana, whereas for our deck we do not. They also do not combo with either Goblin Electromancer, Past in Flames, or Pyromancer Ascension. But how have they been working for you?
As you can see, everything is pretty much legal with some strict upgrades too! Rite of Flame is banned and that's the issue. The deck best ritual for a deck like this is Seething Song; also banned in Modern. So you're stuck with the usual rituals we have. I've tried using those rituals, but it just doesn't seem to click. Feel free to experiment. Again, you do get stuff like Lightning Bolt, which can replace Incinerate. You can even use a 1of Shard Volley to play more Bolts. But again, without any card selection it just doesn't work.
The other deck you're thinking of is the Swathstorm deck. Here's a budget list I remember using. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/building-budget/storm-chasers-2011-11-02 Conley Woods used a version at the first Modern PT and went 8-2 with it.
When Seething Song was banned, it killed this version of the deck and made Storm the way it is. Without Probe, it's even more unplayable. You would usually win using the Grapeshot/Swath combo or just using two Grapeshots in a turn. It wasn't that hard to build up a storm count and just double Grapeshot them on turn 3. But again, without Probe and Seething Song, it's not working.
Like everyone else, it looks like you'll have to go the Gifts route with this deck for the future. Even the Budget MonoRed versions cannot operate any longer. If you're playing casual, look at the Chapin Dragonstorm deck as that is the most likely version to make work with the cards you're telling me you have. With the burn in the deck, you just can kill the hatebears (or the Lodestone Golem in this case) and try to combo off your turn.
Oh for the SB, use Shattering Spree to counter the Chalice. You can Replicate it to kill a Chalice at 1 in SB games. Best of luck!
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
For everyone that was interested in the videos, match 4 and 5 is up know. For everyone else I am sorry I make pretty trash vids
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
Interesting... How this deck playing against agro? Burn, Afinity etc
I've never tested increasing vengeance, I'll try it on mtgo if I can find some time. Any tips/experience on the card and how to best use it?
From the (limited) testing I got with a similar list, the gifts storm can beat most slow decks (it becomes possible to go off without an electromancer effect with enough lands and a full graveyard around turns 6-7), fighting through countermagic and discard works quite well (also due to the fact that the opponents I faced didn't always know what/when to counter or discard) but can race also well against fast non-interactive decks (if we can find an electromancer).
Merfolk and delver seem to be very difficult matchups however (especially merfolk). Have yet to face burn and affinity
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
@KingBrago In the ascension decks increasing vengeance has always been win more. In gifts I like it a lot more since it is extra redundancy. Plus in a deck where your combo mana is a bit tighter the flashback on a ritual really helps, and the early game value you can get is great. Merfolk is a pretty rough matchup since they have a lot of spell interaction and a relatively fast clock. I feel like thing helps this matchup somewhat, but usually it is bolts to stay alive and then kill them. I haven't played against delver very much. I have played against grixis delver a bit and while the counters and kill spells are really annoying for gifts, I haven't found it too hard to stick an ascension and ride it to victory in this matchup.
@Morimacil I agree with everything you said about peek. If you are really concerned about uptapped lands against a control deck you could always play gigadrowse again, that used to be popular way back in the day.
@kobland Gifts makes sure you never run out of gas in your pif loop, and makes it that if you try to go off on turn three with an electromancer piece it won't have any chance of failure (outside interaction) if you cast gifts. Plus as LordOfTheShadows mentioned value gifts is a powerful play as well.
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears