New modern elves player here, been lurking a long time and really appreciate this thread, great information.
Quick question...why doesn't Joraga Warcaller see more play? I've seen him as a 1 of in some lists, but I'm failing to see why he wouldn't be at least a 2 of. Seems to be a great additional mana sink outside of Ezuri. I play the CoCo/Lead version, so perhaps not having Chord to mana sink into is what's making Warcaller feel good to me. Has the flexibility to be a one drop if you need him to drop earlier to work with Heritage or keep an elf chain going, but can also be a game busting +4/+4 Lord or more in the mid to late game. Obviously hitting one with CoCo could be a drawback, but limiting him to a 2 or 3 of seems to mitigate having to take him off a CoCo.
PS- Really pumped about the idea of a new primer. So much great information in this thread and all the evolution and testing that has occurred with it. Consolidating that into a new primer should be worthy of some sort of award/prize.
New modern elves player here, been lurking a long time and really appreciate this thread, great information.
Quick question...why doesn't Joraga Warcaller see more play? I've seen him as a 1 of in some lists, but I'm failing to see why he wouldn't be at least a 2 of. Seems to be a great additional mana sink outside of Ezuri. I play the CoCo/Lead version, so perhaps not having Chord to mana sink into is what's making Warcaller feel good to me. Has the flexibility to be a one drop if you need him to drop earlier to work with Heritage or keep an elf chain going, but can also be a game busting +4/+4 Lord or more in the mid to late game. Obviously hitting one with CoCo could be a drawback, but limiting him to a 2 or 3 of seems to mitigate having to take him off a CoCo.
PS- Really pumped about the idea of a new primer. So much great information in this thread and all the evolution and testing that has occurred with it. Consolidating that into a new primer should be worthy of some sort of award/prize.
I ran warcaller for a bit and really liked it. However, I will say that on paper, running him out for 1 sounds a lot more versatile than it is in practice. Hitting him off coco is miserable. You can't chord for it. It's really just sweeper protection if your opponent is on something like pyroclasm or to help with a beat down plan.
One of the reasons I had such good success with warcaller is because my opponents didn't know how to play around it. Forgot about the lord effect. Etc. that ultimately wasn't enough of a reason to run the card, so I cut it. It was dead weight as a vanilla 1/1 a lot of times, and in that case we have like 500 other different elves who can bring something to the table.
selfless spirit has filled the protection roll for me and he's just been superior in keeping the momentum in my favor.
New modern elves player here, been lurking a long time and really appreciate this thread, great information.
Quick question...why doesn't Joraga Warcaller see more play? I've seen him as a 1 of in some lists, but I'm failing to see why he wouldn't be at least a 2 of. Seems to be a great additional mana sink outside of Ezuri. I play the CoCo/Lead version, so perhaps not having Chord to mana sink into is what's making Warcaller feel good to me. Has the flexibility to be a one drop if you need him to drop earlier to work with Heritage or keep an elf chain going, but can also be a game busting +4/+4 Lord or more in the mid to late game. Obviously hitting one with CoCo could be a drawback, but limiting him to a 2 or 3 of seems to mitigate having to take him off a CoCo.
PS- Really pumped about the idea of a new primer. So much great information in this thread and all the evolution and testing that has occurred with it. Consolidating that into a new primer should be worthy of some sort of award/prize.
Joraga Warcaller sucks if you get it from CoCo or if you Chord for it. It's nuts if you can cast it with a few kickers. However, if I have 9 mana to produce a +4/+4 lord, I'd really rather have Ezuri or Chord.
Good thoughts on Joraga. For me, being on the Lead the Stampede version rather than the chord version mitigates the "you can't chord for him" factor.
Being a sort of sweeper protection seems to be a good way to put it, also an alt win con to Ezuri that uses a similar mechanic as Ezuri (mana dump), just no trample being added.
Selfless spirit does great as a sweeper protector, but I'd see more value there in a Chord deck, since you only have to run it as a 1 of. For me being on Lead, it seems like running a 3/3 Warcaller to Ezuri split would give me plenty of things I can dump Mana into, while also avoiding some dead cards off CoCo (Since only 3 Joraga). Much more likely to have that versatile sweeper protector/finisher in my hand running 3 of Warcaller than a single Selfless. (This all being in a Non-Chord version of the deck).
Looking at the CoCo/Lead version that Reid Duke ran, he had an imperious perfect in the main, I personally think Joraga may do better in that spot? Imperious better off CoCo, Joraga better almost any other time due to the amount of mana we can make so quickly?
Open to more input here, obviously playtesting tells more than anything.
Never played against eldrazi tron, but Bant Eldrazi is pretty easy. We are just way faster than them. Be careful not to overextend into Engineered Explosives unless you can chord for Revoker or Selfless spirit and definitely side in Revoker and Rec Sage. You can sometimes Rec save an EE when they have cast it without mana to activate it, and Revoker on EE or Eldrazi Displacer, or their big guy that taps stuff down will win the game.
Also, remember that they often mainboard EE in multiples now, so if you think they are on the deck based on something like painland into Noble Heirarch which no other deck in modern does, then carefully consider either straight racing them, or playing around Explosives.
pretty stoked about the new primer. I just started playing this deck a few weeks ago and my win percentage is pretty high. Pretty fun little deck to run.
Good thoughts on Joraga. For me, being on the Lead the Stampede version rather than the chord version mitigates the "you can't chord for him" factor.
Being a sort of sweeper protection seems to be a good way to put it, also an alt win con to Ezuri that uses a similar mechanic as Ezuri (mana dump), just no trample being added.
Selfless spirit does great as a sweeper protector, but I'd see more value there in a Chord deck, since you only have to run it as a 1 of. For me being on Lead, it seems like running a 3/3 Warcaller to Ezuri split would give me plenty of things I can dump Mana into, while also avoiding some dead cards off CoCo (Since only 3 Joraga). Much more likely to have that versatile sweeper protector/finisher in my hand running 3 of Warcaller than a single Selfless. (This all being in a Non-Chord version of the deck).
Looking at the CoCo/Lead version that Reid Duke ran, he had an imperious perfect in the main, I personally think Joraga may do better in that spot? Imperious better off CoCo, Joraga better almost any other time due to the amount of mana we can make so quickly?
Open to more input here, obviously playtesting tells more than anything.
So after playtesting for a bit, it seems like the biggest drawback I'm finding to Joraga Warcaller is that it doesn't automatically end the game like Ezuri or potentially SotP can. Just because you multi-kick it 4 times, giving 4/4 to the team, those elves can be chumped and give the opponent an extra turn. I think this lack of trample/reach is a problem for our deck, since we're trying to alpha strike many times. This is most apparent when playing against other combo/fast decks where if you give them an extra turn, you lose. Need that alpha strike capability. This leads me to believe a 4 of Ezuri is a MUST in Lead the Stampede versions. Chord versions are able to get away with fewer because it can chord for him and the chords serve as essentially extra copies of Ezuri.
I just finished playtesting as well and your results were the same as mine. I had a few games vs Tokens, among others, and he just chumped my elves with his dudes and attacked me with flying tokens. It was powerful vs control decks since it eats removal and clears the way for Ezuri but I think it wasn't worth it.
I just finished playtesting as well and your results were the same as mine. I had a few games vs Tokens, among others, and he just chumped my elves with his dudes and attacked me with flying tokens. It was powerful vs control decks since it eats removal and clears the way for Ezuri but I think it wasn't worth it.
I'm going to be running it as a 1 of going forward just to continue playtesting it. I still like it as a fifth mana sink in addition to the 4 ezuri that I'm running. Limiting it to a 1 of will really mitigate the downside of catching one off CoCo, while giving me that 5th mana sink.
If you want another mana sink Craterhoof is better. It comes to hand off lead, and just like warcaller goes under deck for co-co, but it hits with haste and costs around the same as a multikicked warcaller but has haste.
IMHO the deck isnt often in need of a mana sink but if it was I would go craterhoof over warcaller anyday in modern. Commander is the place for joraga cuz worldly tutor and elvish harbinger. Modern needs small damage faster, not more damage later.
This is a good thought. Craterhoof would end the game immediately and does provide the trample reach that Joraga doesn't. Joraga provides a little more utility as it could be taken off of CoCo in a pinch, and can be played for less than 8 if needed.
Solid point though. Playing a single Craterhoof definitely sounds more fun, and since this is about having fun I may do some playtesting with the 'Hoof.
Long time no see friends. Haven't been playing much modern - bit too swept up playing Standard. It doesn't look like we've really moved anywhere in the past two months or so, but I've hit a major matchup problem in Dredge. Matchup feels borderline unwinnable barring them never hitting a Conflagrate, anyone got any tech for this one for us classic GB players? Yixild Jailer is nice, but Conflagrate is the key card here.
I'd also like to contribute to the new primer, if whoever is organizing that can pm me, that would be great.
Long time no see friends. Haven't been playing much modern - bit too swept up playing Standard. It doesn't look like we've really moved anywhere in the past two months or so, but I've hit a major matchup problem in Dredge. Matchup feels borderline unwinnable barring them never hitting a Conflagrate, anyone got any tech for this one for us classic GB players? Yixild Jailer is nice, but Conflagrate is the key card here.
Long time no see friends. Haven't been playing much modern - bit too swept up playing Standard. It doesn't look like we've really moved anywhere in the past two months or so, but I've hit a major matchup problem in Dredge. Matchup feels borderline unwinnable barring them never hitting a Conflagrate, anyone got any tech for this one for us classic GB players? Yixild Jailer is nice, but Conflagrate is the key card here.
I'd also like to contribute to the new primer, if whoever is organizing that can pm me, that would be great.
I'd say splash white for RIP and/or Mark of Asylum. But if you'd rather stay GB, Scavenging Ooze, Relic of Progenitus, Surgical Extraction, Stain the Mind, Lost Legacy, Nihil Spellbomb, Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Ravenous Trap, Extirpate, Bojuka Bog.
Of all these, I've tested multiple copies of Ooze (too slow IMO, but saves you a few times), Surgical Extraction (best when you have two in hand and target Conflagrate and Amalgam), Relic of Progenitus (not hard hate but gives you a 1-2 more turns to set-up your kill), Leyline of the Void (great when you start with it, sucks when you don't), Stain the Mind (convoke is nuts but its a sorcery). The others I just threw off the top of my head to give you some ideas.
Larrie it's all about timing. So many times have I chorded for a Revoker/Selfless Spirit/Burrenton in response to a wrath and come out in a commanding position. My win percentage is so much higher with GW, I will make another tournament report shortly. Just came 2nd in a LCQ PPTQ
Larrie it's all about timing. So many times have I chorded for a Revoker/Selfless Spirit/Burrenton in response to a wrath and come out in a commanding position. My win percentage is so much higher with GW, I will make another tournament report shortly. Just came 2nd in a LCQ PPTQ
So it was you I was hearing about via radio correspondence! Good work, heard you might have misplayed against Infect in the finals though which is unfortunate.
Game 3 of the finals and I keep an "okay" hand on the back of it containing Path to Exile and a Horizon Canopy.
Something like Forest/Canopy/Path/Heritage Druid/Scooze/Nettle Sentinel/Chord. Pretty choppy but he mulled to 6 and I thought a well timed path may have got me there.
He leads with fetchland go.
I topdeck the Llanowar Elves, and slam it happy to see my T1 dork. This meets a fetch/shock/dismember - down to 13.
Blighted agent comes down on T2.
My T2 I play Nettle Sentinel and keep up Horizon Canopy for Path.
Here is where I punt It's been a long day and he leads with Blossoming Defence, putting it straight into the bin. For whatever reason, I say sure as if it was always going to resolve. He then plays mutagenic growth and become immense in quick succession, realising i've messed up BIG time. I cast the path. "It's hexproof" he says. I hang my head and feel a bit down after throwing away the tournament. It was a long day, and I stuffed up at the worst possible moment.
He was my FIRST loss of the day and my LAST loss of the day. Also my only two losses. Infect is usually 50/50 for me but of course being 8th seed I was always going to be breaking serve.
I'm so happy with my current list. Since I've come back from Europe I've 4-0'd really spikey FNMs 3 times, and 3-1'd 2. I've also come 2nd at a GPT last week and a 2nd at a PPTQ yesterday.
I managed to beat Kallan, a really solid Sydney player who was top seed on Abzan Midrange 2-0 in the Quarter finals on the draw.
I then went on to beat Maitland Cameron (GP Melbourne Runner-Up during Eldrazi Winter) 2-1 in the Semi's, which was an amazing feeling! I played so tight and was really happy. I think this match drained me mentally.
Then losing to a clearly really solid Sydney player who flew down for the opportunity for the PTQ.
So close, yet so far. Oh well! Elves is great guys, and funnily enough people still don't really know how to play against it.
P.S. Beat my most hated deck Tron 2-0 yesterday! Chording for a Revoker in response to Ugin feels good man.
Feel free to ask me how I would SB in any matches. I'm currently at an 80% win rate with the deck.
Congrats on your great finish! Don't kick yourself for that thing. You were tired after a really long day of Magic. Hell, I get tired after 3 rounds of an FNM.
I got a few questions.
How'd you find your match-up vs Dredge? Did you miss Shaman of the Pack at all? Were you playing 4 Canopies? Did the life loss from those matter at all?
PS I'd also like to see your sideboard if that's okay.
Quick question...why doesn't Joraga Warcaller see more play? I've seen him as a 1 of in some lists, but I'm failing to see why he wouldn't be at least a 2 of. Seems to be a great additional mana sink outside of Ezuri. I play the CoCo/Lead version, so perhaps not having Chord to mana sink into is what's making Warcaller feel good to me. Has the flexibility to be a one drop if you need him to drop earlier to work with Heritage or keep an elf chain going, but can also be a game busting +4/+4 Lord or more in the mid to late game. Obviously hitting one with CoCo could be a drawback, but limiting him to a 2 or 3 of seems to mitigate having to take him off a CoCo.
PS- Really pumped about the idea of a new primer. So much great information in this thread and all the evolution and testing that has occurred with it. Consolidating that into a new primer should be worthy of some sort of award/prize.
I ran warcaller for a bit and really liked it. However, I will say that on paper, running him out for 1 sounds a lot more versatile than it is in practice. Hitting him off coco is miserable. You can't chord for it. It's really just sweeper protection if your opponent is on something like pyroclasm or to help with a beat down plan.
One of the reasons I had such good success with warcaller is because my opponents didn't know how to play around it. Forgot about the lord effect. Etc. that ultimately wasn't enough of a reason to run the card, so I cut it. It was dead weight as a vanilla 1/1 a lot of times, and in that case we have like 500 other different elves who can bring something to the table.
selfless spirit has filled the protection roll for me and he's just been superior in keeping the momentum in my favor.
Joraga Warcaller sucks if you get it from CoCo or if you Chord for it. It's nuts if you can cast it with a few kickers. However, if I have 9 mana to produce a +4/+4 lord, I'd really rather have Ezuri or Chord.
Being a sort of sweeper protection seems to be a good way to put it, also an alt win con to Ezuri that uses a similar mechanic as Ezuri (mana dump), just no trample being added.
Selfless spirit does great as a sweeper protector, but I'd see more value there in a Chord deck, since you only have to run it as a 1 of. For me being on Lead, it seems like running a 3/3 Warcaller to Ezuri split would give me plenty of things I can dump Mana into, while also avoiding some dead cards off CoCo (Since only 3 Joraga). Much more likely to have that versatile sweeper protector/finisher in my hand running 3 of Warcaller than a single Selfless. (This all being in a Non-Chord version of the deck).
Looking at the CoCo/Lead version that Reid Duke ran, he had an imperious perfect in the main, I personally think Joraga may do better in that spot? Imperious better off CoCo, Joraga better almost any other time due to the amount of mana we can make so quickly?
Open to more input here, obviously playtesting tells more than anything.
Also, remember that they often mainboard EE in multiples now, so if you think they are on the deck based on something like painland into Noble Heirarch which no other deck in modern does, then carefully consider either straight racing them, or playing around Explosives.
Modern
So after playtesting for a bit, it seems like the biggest drawback I'm finding to Joraga Warcaller is that it doesn't automatically end the game like Ezuri or potentially SotP can. Just because you multi-kick it 4 times, giving 4/4 to the team, those elves can be chumped and give the opponent an extra turn. I think this lack of trample/reach is a problem for our deck, since we're trying to alpha strike many times. This is most apparent when playing against other combo/fast decks where if you give them an extra turn, you lose. Need that alpha strike capability. This leads me to believe a 4 of Ezuri is a MUST in Lead the Stampede versions. Chord versions are able to get away with fewer because it can chord for him and the chords serve as essentially extra copies of Ezuri.
-Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
I just finished playtesting as well and your results were the same as mine. I had a few games vs Tokens, among others, and he just chumped my elves with his dudes and attacked me with flying tokens. It was powerful vs control decks since it eats removal and clears the way for Ezuri but I think it wasn't worth it.
I'm going to be running it as a 1 of going forward just to continue playtesting it. I still like it as a fifth mana sink in addition to the 4 ezuri that I'm running. Limiting it to a 1 of will really mitigate the downside of catching one off CoCo, while giving me that 5th mana sink.
This is a good thought. Craterhoof would end the game immediately and does provide the trample reach that Joraga doesn't. Joraga provides a little more utility as it could be taken off of CoCo in a pinch, and can be played for less than 8 if needed.
Solid point though. Playing a single Craterhoof definitely sounds more fun, and since this is about having fun I may do some playtesting with the 'Hoof.
Thanks for the feedback!
I'd also like to contribute to the new primer, if whoever is organizing that can pm me, that would be great.
What about Stain the Mind, Surgical Extraction, or Lost Legacy?
I'd say splash white for RIP and/or Mark of Asylum. But if you'd rather stay GB, Scavenging Ooze, Relic of Progenitus, Surgical Extraction, Stain the Mind, Lost Legacy, Nihil Spellbomb, Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Ravenous Trap, Extirpate, Bojuka Bog.
Of all these, I've tested multiple copies of Ooze (too slow IMO, but saves you a few times), Surgical Extraction (best when you have two in hand and target Conflagrate and Amalgam), Relic of Progenitus (not hard hate but gives you a 1-2 more turns to set-up your kill), Leyline of the Void (great when you start with it, sucks when you don't), Stain the Mind (convoke is nuts but its a sorcery). The others I just threw off the top of my head to give you some ideas.
Still straight GB:
4 Forest
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
//Creatures: 34
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Shaman of the Pack
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Collected Company
3 Chord of Calling
1 Lead the Stampede
3 Thoughtseize
2 Dismember
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spellskite/Melira
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Fracturing Gust
Not all foil yet either unfortunately.
So it was you I was hearing about via radio correspondence! Good work, heard you might have misplayed against Infect in the finals though which is unfortunate.
Yep, that was me unfortunately.
Game 3 of the finals and I keep an "okay" hand on the back of it containing Path to Exile and a Horizon Canopy.
Something like Forest/Canopy/Path/Heritage Druid/Scooze/Nettle Sentinel/Chord. Pretty choppy but he mulled to 6 and I thought a well timed path may have got me there.
He leads with fetchland go.
I topdeck the Llanowar Elves, and slam it happy to see my T1 dork. This meets a fetch/shock/dismember - down to 13.
Blighted agent comes down on T2.
My T2 I play Nettle Sentinel and keep up Horizon Canopy for Path.
Here is where I punt
He was my FIRST loss of the day and my LAST loss of the day. Also my only two losses. Infect is usually 50/50 for me but of course being 8th seed I was always going to be breaking serve.
I'm so happy with my current list. Since I've come back from Europe I've 4-0'd really spikey FNMs 3 times, and 3-1'd 2. I've also come 2nd at a GPT last week and a 2nd at a PPTQ yesterday.
I managed to beat Kallan, a really solid Sydney player who was top seed on Abzan Midrange 2-0 in the Quarter finals on the draw.
I then went on to beat Maitland Cameron (GP Melbourne Runner-Up during Eldrazi Winter) 2-1 in the Semi's, which was an amazing feeling! I played so tight and was really happy. I think this match drained me mentally.
Then losing to a clearly really solid Sydney player who flew down for the opportunity for the PTQ.
So close, yet so far. Oh well! Elves is great guys, and funnily enough people still don't really know how to play against it.
P.S. Beat my most hated deck Tron 2-0 yesterday! Chording for a Revoker in response to Ugin feels good man.
Feel free to ask me how I would SB in any matches. I'm currently at an 80% win rate with the deck.
Congrats on your great finish! Don't kick yourself for that thing. You were tired after a really long day of Magic. Hell, I get tired after 3 rounds of an FNM.
I got a few questions.
How'd you find your match-up vs Dredge? Did you miss Shaman of the Pack at all? Were you playing 4 Canopies? Did the life loss from those matter at all?
PS I'd also like to see your sideboard if that's okay.