I question why your games were going to time if you have that many win cons--you're doing something wrong if you can't finish a game with that build.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
The longest match was vs. UWR. Basically because even if I had enough lands for, let's say, play a planeswalker and save mana for a counter backup, he also had mana to answer my planeswalker and counter backup his own answer. He also managed to play a Keranos, God of Storms and got some value from it before I could get rid of it.
That being said, it is quite possible that I made something wrong, I still need to improve playing with this deck
I think your list is fine. Maybe just adding in some pressure with flashed Restoration Angels etc, and maybe a 2nd Vendilion Clique in the sideboard will help instant speed attack the hand and apply pressure. Tapping mainphase mana for Planeswalkers is generally bad. I am really surprised your opponent resolved Keranos against you to be honest.
The fact that you're slamming win cons when you can't actually defend them in a control mirror is the problem. Patience is important in closing out games in a control mirror.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
MTGO daily: 4-0 undefeated!!! if decklist is not tomorrow on the mothership i post it here.
really short report:
R1: 2-0 raphael levy loam pox, stall until i drop elspeth in first game, second one he over commit and a wrath win me the game.
R2: 2-0 UG infect, cheap removal+ cheap counter? ggs
R3: 2-0 Twin second one he times out (i dont know if i would won or not, topdeck mode for both while i beat with colonnade)
R4: 2-0 grixis goodstuff? not twin or delver, but snapcaster, RB command, goblin rabblemaster, UB manland
playing 5th path to exile: last breath, amazing! hit infect creatures, twin creatures, some people play valorous stance, but i think that when x/4+ creatures are on the board we are on the mid/late game, and we are already good there!
List seems solid. I had a list like it before, I just had a couple kitchen finks jammed in there for value. I am glad to see wall of omens, that little card can be quite good in general. Tron is tough just because without pressure and disruption they just starting swinging haymakers or go long with Emrakul. I used to try meddling mage naming Emarakul as a last resort which worked fairly well.
A general note on the deck: be aware of boil/choke, a lot of deck are using them since Twin is the deck to beat. Also i want to put a Clique in, but i dont know what to remove AND i dont have one
xNantuko :
Snapcaster: you really dont want more than 2 my decklist, since most of the times is +4 cc (leak, remand, wrath, command), in UR deck (or efficient deck, not the same as goodstuffs) bolt alone is a reason to have 4 snapcaster. What i wonder is why Jeff Hoogland use 1 more, i suppose because he use path to also remove blockers (i only use path to remove threats) and attacking. Put in another way, i use snapcaster only as a reactive card, while Jeff can use is also as a proactive card, hence the difference (i believe).
Abzan is at least a 50/50 match up (or better), wall of omens is god, and celestial purge is in the SB for the lilianas! think twice over anticipate or serum vision is in part because of liliana and discard. Look at the curve at the decklist, jump from 2 to 4 (inquisition of kozilek and abrupt decay), sometimes you keep a hand with 4 land, wrath, cryptic command and a planeswalker, and that is great against abzan. Jund on the other hand is worst than 50/50 MU, while BBE is banned we are good. Tron is awful MU, the worst by far, you can pull some wins, but we just have to deal with this fact.
Elminster:
I had finks before (i like them), but 3 is too much to tap out, wall of omens do a similar job chump blocking, and resto angel putting pressure (3 damage with evasion) and blocking 1/1 fliers (yes lingering soul tokens).
I just liked the curve against aggro or Abzan deck as, trn 2 wall of omens and cantrip, turn three kitchen finks and gain 2 life and turn four resto angel eoturn to flicker wall of finks for value. Having kitchen finks doesn't mean you have to tap out for them on turn three, as I only will do this versus aggro. Kitchen finks is the one card that I like but it is stuck on an awkward curve of cmc 3. I would prefer vendilion clique most times, but right now with lingering souls in Abzan etc, clique seems lackluster as more than a one of.
I went undefeated at a GPT yesterday with Hoogland's Scornful Sprites. I sleeved up the deck in the morning to take a break from my primary deck and was surprised at how good the deck is.
I went undefeated at a GPT yesterday with Hoogland's Scornful Sprites. I sleeved up the deck in the morning to take a break from my primary deck and was surprised at how good the deck is.
Would you say that it is better than both of the more traditional builds of Blue/White Control?
Yes. Being able to beat U-Tron (or other tron decks) was a major issue for me with the traditional U/W control decks. The matchup was much easier for me this time round as this deck does not have cards that suck in that matchup, like finks and walls.
I can't think of a matchup where this deck is actively bad against which the traditional build would be good against. You lose a bit of percentage against things like Affinity and Burn, but the matchups improve across the board. This should be the way forward for people looking to play U/W control decks in my humble opinion.
Would you say that it is better than both of the more traditional builds of Blue/White Control?
Yes. Being able to beat U-Tron (or other tron decks) was a major issue for me with the traditional U/W control decks. The matchup was much easier for me this time round as this deck does not have cards that suck in that matchup, like finks and walls.
I can't think of a matchup where this deck is actively bad against which the traditional build would be good against. You lose a bit of percentage against things like Affinity and Burn, but the matchups improve across the board. This should be the way forward for people looking to play U/W control decks in my humble opinion.
How does it perform against BGx compared to the traditional versions?
Also, 2 year anniversairy on this forum and 11000th post!
Would you say that it is better than both of the more traditional builds of Blue/White Control?
Yes. Being able to beat U-Tron (or other tron decks) was a major issue for me with the traditional U/W control decks. The matchup was much easier for me this time round as this deck does not have cards that suck in that matchup, like finks and walls.
I can't think of a matchup where this deck is actively bad against which the traditional build would be good against. You lose a bit of percentage against things like Affinity and Burn, but the matchups improve across the board. This should be the way forward for people looking to play U/W control decks in my humble opinion.
How does it perform against BGx compared to the traditional versions?
Also, 2 year anniversairy on this forum and 11000th post!
Congrats!
I can't make a sweeping statement on the BG/x matchup as I have much less experience with this deck as compared to the traditional build.
Based on gut feel and the one round I played against Abzan yesterday, I think it's about the same. You have more solid counterspells and Ojutai's a pain in the arse for them to deal with, but Finks are extremely good against them as compared to SSS (which are ok in disrupting discard spells and goyfs but not much else).
BG/x is a pretty good matchup for both builds anyway.
What is everyone's opinion on the U/W Miracles list by Dean Tolmachoff that got fifth place at states on April 12? I have played a few games with it and I had a couple clunky hands that were full of Terminus/Entreat the Angels. I swapped Think Twice for See Beyond and have had some strong games with it. Nothing feels better than casting Cryptic Command on their turn and drawing/casting Terminus lol.
Yeah I agree that that without a lot of library manipulation that the deck seems to whiff quite a bit. But after adding See Beyond the list has played dramatically better. Telling Time is a good option but the fact that it is instant doesn't compensate for the fact that it does nothing for dead cards stuck in hand. So far turn two has been hold up Snapcaster Mage or Remand and then go for a turn three See Beyond with Path to Exile or Spell Pierce for backup. Maybe it is "too cute" of a list but even at six mana Terminus is a great field clear. Also Entreat the Angels is a great way to win. 4/4 fliers do a lot of work. I will play test some more and see it's appears consistent after playing more than about ~15 games.
Yeah I agree that that without a lot of library manipulation that the deck seems to whiff quite a bit. But after adding See Beyond the list has played dramatically better. Telling Time is a good option but the fact that it is instant doesn't compensate for the fact that it does nothing for dead cards stuck in hand. So far turn two has been hold up Snapcaster Mage or Remand and then go for a turn three See Beyond with Path to Exile or Spell Pierce for backup. Maybe it is "too cute" of a list but even at six mana Terminus is a great field clear. Also Entreat the Angels is a great way to win. 4/4 fliers do a lot of work. I will play test some more and see it's appears consistent after playing more than about ~15 games.
I like Telling Time more because it actually sets up miracles instead of just getting dead ones.
Truth is, I also lost faith in SS in his 2-Dragon, 4-Mutavault list, even as a 3-of. It was 2-mana Force Spike for way too long in my testing.
Scorn really is only good when you're willing to devote the slots necessary to have it enabled consistently (meaning like 7-8 slots are Dragons). This is easier to obtain in an Esper list that runs Nameless Inversion and/or Crib Swap, but much harder when you're going straight UW
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
What are some cards that beat Scapshift or Tron in general? Those are literally the only decks I've actually struggled against. Mindcensor doesn't seem to be enough.
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With the banning of twin comes the end of an era...
What are some cards that beat Scapshift or Tron in general? Those are literally the only decks I've actually struggled against. Mindcensor doesn't seem to be enough.
If Tron is a huge problem, more cliques, and the sassy Bribery as a sideboard card. Scapeshift is tough, but dispels help with a clock like clique, but be wary of their counterflux post board.
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Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
That being said, it is quite possible that I made something wrong, I still need to improve playing with this deck
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
really short report:
R1: 2-0 raphael levy loam pox, stall until i drop elspeth in first game, second one he over commit and a wrath win me the game.
R2: 2-0 UG infect, cheap removal+ cheap counter? ggs
R3: 2-0 Twin second one he times out (i dont know if i would won or not, topdeck mode for both while i beat with colonnade)
R4: 2-0 grixis goodstuff? not twin or delver, but snapcaster, RB command, goblin rabblemaster, UB manland
playing 5th path to exile: last breath, amazing! hit infect creatures, twin creatures, some people play valorous stance, but i think that when x/4+ creatures are on the board we are on the mid/late game, and we are already good there!
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-daily-2015-05-05-0
the flex spot is repeal, but save my ass from a combo twin (return to hand creature when twin on the stack).
I like Hoogland deck a lot, my decklist is more draw go.
xNantuko :
Snapcaster: you really dont want more than 2 my decklist, since most of the times is +4 cc (leak, remand, wrath, command), in UR deck (or efficient deck, not the same as goodstuffs) bolt alone is a reason to have 4 snapcaster. What i wonder is why Jeff Hoogland use 1 more, i suppose because he use path to also remove blockers (i only use path to remove threats) and attacking. Put in another way, i use snapcaster only as a reactive card, while Jeff can use is also as a proactive card, hence the difference (i believe).
Abzan is at least a 50/50 match up (or better), wall of omens is god, and celestial purge is in the SB for the lilianas! think twice over anticipate or serum vision is in part because of liliana and discard. Look at the curve at the decklist, jump from 2 to 4 (inquisition of kozilek and abrupt decay), sometimes you keep a hand with 4 land, wrath, cryptic command and a planeswalker, and that is great against abzan. Jund on the other hand is worst than 50/50 MU, while BBE is banned we are good. Tron is awful MU, the worst by far, you can pull some wins, but we just have to deal with this fact.
Elminster:
I had finks before (i like them), but 3 is too much to tap out, wall of omens do a similar job chump blocking, and resto angel putting pressure (3 damage with evasion) and blocking 1/1 fliers (yes lingering soul tokens).
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Restoration Angel
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
Spells (22)
2 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
2 Anticipate
2 Valorous Stance
3 Remand
3 Silumgar's Scorn
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mystic Gate
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Flashfreeze
2 Disenchant
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Supreme Verdict
Decks faced:
R1: Abzan Little Kid
R2: Burn
R3: UR Twin
R4: Burn
R5: ID
R6: ID
QF: Mono Blue Tron
SF: Jeskai Control
F: Abzan
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Would you say that it is better than both of the more traditional builds of Blue/White Control?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yes. Being able to beat U-Tron (or other tron decks) was a major issue for me with the traditional U/W control decks. The matchup was much easier for me this time round as this deck does not have cards that suck in that matchup, like finks and walls.
I can't think of a matchup where this deck is actively bad against which the traditional build would be good against. You lose a bit of percentage against things like Affinity and Burn, but the matchups improve across the board. This should be the way forward for people looking to play U/W control decks in my humble opinion.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
How does it perform against BGx compared to the traditional versions?
Also, 2 year anniversairy on this forum and 11000th post!
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Congrats!
I can't make a sweeping statement on the BG/x matchup as I have much less experience with this deck as compared to the traditional build.
Based on gut feel and the one round I played against Abzan yesterday, I think it's about the same. You have more solid counterspells and Ojutai's a pain in the arse for them to deal with, but Finks are extremely good against them as compared to SSS (which are ok in disrupting discard spells and goyfs but not much else).
BG/x is a pretty good matchup for both builds anyway.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
3 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Batterskull
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Spell Pierce
4 Path to Exile
4 Cryptic Command
3 Think Twice
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
4 Flooded Strand
3 Plains
4 Island
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Torpor Orb
4 Kor Firewalker
2 Wipe Away
3 Kataki, War's Wage
It seems a little too luck based without having a lot of library manipulation. I'd replace Think Twice with Telling Time.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I like Telling Time more because it actually sets up miracles instead of just getting dead ones.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
http://www.themeadery.org/articles/video-crash-test-starring-jeff-hoogland-episode-9-modern-daily/
Also, here's the list.
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
spells (22)
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Anticipate
2 Azorius Charm
2 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Valorous Stance
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
3 Mutavault
1 Mystic Gate
3 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
2 Seachrome Coast
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Celestial Purge
1 Condemn
1 Detention Sphere
2 Disenchant
1 Dispel
1 Flashfreeze
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
I see Hoogland lost faith in Silumgar's Scorn.
Truth is, I also lost faith in SS in his 2-Dragon, 4-Mutavault list, even as a 3-of. It was 2-mana Force Spike for way too long in my testing.
Scorn really is only good when you're willing to devote the slots necessary to have it enabled consistently (meaning like 7-8 slots are Dragons). This is easier to obtain in an Esper list that runs Nameless Inversion and/or Crib Swap, but much harder when you're going straight UW
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Tron has some trouble dealing with Stony Silence, and Scapeshift can fall to quite a few counterspells and extra Vendilion Cliques. Both think that Tectonic Edge is annoying, and Tron's not a Ghost Quarter fan.
I'm not sure how much more favourable the Tron match-up can get, though. Tron typically goes over the top of (other) control decks.