Sure, Myth dies to Abrupt Decay. But it's only a single mana to put it into play, and you only put more counters on it when you have mana left over anyway, so it's very little opportunity cost. Anyway, just a thought.
Sure, Myth dies to Abrupt Decay. But it's only a single mana to put it into play, and you only put more counters on it when you have mana left over anyway, so it's very little opportunity cost. Anyway, just a thought.
I guess the highest cost is not the mana you pay for it, but the card you spend for the effect.
So what are some of the best draw spells that can be played in this deck?
I assum Think Twice and Sphinx's Revelation are the best options
Sure, Myth dies to Abrupt Decay. But it's only a single mana to put it into play, and you only put more counters on it when you have mana left over anyway, so it's very little opportunity cost. Anyway, just a thought.
I guess the highest cost is not the mana you pay for it, but the card you spend for the effect.
True, true. I run it in a build with something like 6-7 Wraths, so I'm not really scared of creature decks. And of course Myth avoids the wraths, but can then turn into a creature when required. The build is weak to combo and burn, though.
Sure, Myth dies to Abrupt Decay. But it's only a single mana to put it into play, and you only put more counters on it when you have mana left over anyway, so it's very little opportunity cost. Anyway, just a thought.
I guess the highest cost is not the mana you pay for it, but the card you spend for the effect.
True, true. I run it in a build with something like 6-7 Wraths, so I'm not really scared of creature decks. And of course Myth avoids the wraths, but can then turn into a creature when required. The build is weak to combo and burn, though.
This is the whole issue with dedicating slots to myth realized, creature matchups will always be our strong suit. It's about picking up points where you can against combo. When you play a card like myth, there is less space for stuff like RIP, stony, dispel, clique, mindcensor, etc and the draw power to find these cards. Leaks are an absolute must in my opinion as well, against nearly all the combo decks you will need to stop their payoff cards once or twice and the rate and the speed at which leak does this is tough to find elsewhere.
Burn should also be one of the best matchups for our deck, if not the single best. Finks/wall/snare/leak and siding dispels and life gain is very difficult for them to beat. Burn is so popular that you cannot afford to have a bad matchup there. Have you posted your list?
I think Keezy's idea of running a couple maindeck Spreading Seas might make a lot of sense now that Eldrazi Processor is becoming a thing. It's an hate card for Tron, Eldrazi and Bloom. Could turn out to be useful in a few other occasions (manlands etc), cycles itself. The problem is making room for it in my build. I'm afraid I would have to cut maindeck Cliques. But that is another good card against these decks. I need to think about Seas.
Yeah, it's been great for me. Eldrazi is a really tough matchup, with bw being the toughest of all since souls really hampers the beatdown we need to have. The most effective way to fight them in my experience is to attack their mana whenever possible and board in stoneys. Sower of oblivion is the card that kills us, so keeping them off of 6 mana when we can is crucial and having cliques to interact before cast triggers. Seas might be the single best control card in the format against tron as well since it stops natural tron, even if you are on the draw, and it skirts the crucible/life of the loam that people will have in their boards since it doesn't actually kill their land and it doesnt set us back a land like gq/tec do. I'm really liking my current build, I took some of what Aller was working with by adding a single shadow and single clique to the maindeck and they have performed well. I've gone 4-1, 5-0, and 4-1 in my last three mtgo leagues, losing to g/b elves and bloom but beating several "bad" matchups over that span.
Gotcha, I don't like Elspeth against that field in the main. Shes too slow for affinity and titan. It could be strong against eldrazi however but it doesnt answer the ulamog/lingering souls problem, which, along with sower, is what the matchup is centered around. You could do another stony in the side, as it's good against eldrazi and the best card against affinity. You dont need 3 hallowed fountains either, its very rare that you need to have the second, much less the third. With this many seas and it's strength against eldrazi/jund, I'd be inclined to run some tec edges alongside gq. To clarify, what is "stompy" in this context?
Gotcha, I don't like Elspeth against that field in the main. Shes too slow for affinity and titan. It could be strong against eldrazi however but it doesnt answer the ulamog/lingering souls problem, which, along with sower, is what the matchup is centered around. You could do another stony in the side, as it's good against eldrazi and the best card against affinity. You dont need 3 hallowed fountains either, its very rare that you need to have the second, much less the third. With this many seas and it's strength against eldrazi/jund, I'd be inclined to run some tec edges alongside gq. To clarify, what is "stompy" in this context?
Cool, yeah I definitely like the third verdict main in this. Lil isnt that hard to beat honestly. You have a set of leaks, a few cryptics/spreading seas and your creature suite lines up well. I play one sphere personally and its an answer to a resolved plating, which is how they kill you in most games, but I wouldn't fault anyone for running zero.
No, I don’t have experience with it. So you’re certainly more qualified than myself to talk about it. The thing is, luckily, you don’t need to test every single card to know whether it’s good or not.
I see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess you don’t need to test every single card, but then again you shouldn’t be too quick to judge a card you’ve never tested. I honestly recommend reading this article.
This is a card I know for sure wouldn’t be good in my UW Control. As you say, and I agree with you here, it’s for draw-go versions only. The problem is draw-go versions aren’t really viable as they lose to Tron and now, to the new Eldrazi deck. Not to mention they have a harder time dealing with some other midrange and control decks, as the Wall-Finks-Resto mechanic is great at generating card advantage.
Indeed. I really have to stress that you simply cannot slot Myth into UW Midrange and expect it to work. It requires some more defining deck changes, almost at the same axis as Emira Control. However your only option isn’t to be draw go. As you briefly saw, I run the full playset of Souls & Visions, alongside sweepers and walkers. Like, Narset becomes a great due to the spell density Myth facilitates. Context is important - the environment the card is ‘living’ in.
Tron is, and will always be a difficult matchup for UW Control. No matter the version. However, I've managed to make it feel like a 40/50 matchup which is enough for me. Here, Myth becomes invaluable as it establishes a t1 threat, allowing you to focus on disruption at the crucial turn 3-4. Most of my wins comes from a properly stalled game, and a huge Myth (or Narset / Tamiyo ultimate). Playing Walls and Finks against Tron just felt bad, to the point where I decided to test something new. I’m excited to pitch the list against Eldrazi and see how it fares.
But even in a draw-go version, which again I don't think is viable in current Modern, I think there are far better options than Myth. Namely: planeswalkers, flash creatures, Colonnades and Ojutai. Myth needs interaction with other cards to work and is very easy to destroy. It way harder to get rid of planeswalkers, and Cliques, Snaps and Restos do other things apart from being able to attack. This is not to mention Myth is slow and can be chumpblocked all day.
You’re absolutely right that there are other good options, but most of them are 3 CMC and above. None which are a one drop (if we exclude the auto-include Colonnades). With most UW lists you’ll normally have make a decision before establishing a serious threat: “Do I hold represent disruption, or do go for pressure?” Restoration Angle and Snapcaster being the exception.
I believe this is the important part, Myth doesn’t need “interaction” with other cards, it triggers on cast, by the cards I’m already playing. Nowhere in my list do I have a unique card just for Myth alone! That’s the beauty of it, the card doesn’t requires any specific card to work - just that you pack a higher noncreature count.
Looking quickly into your list (I’m a bit in a hurry right now), it looks like you don’t even really need Myth. You have Souls, Clique, Snaps, Colonnades and a couple Planeswalkers. Why even bothering playing this card? You could use those slots for example to run Mana Leak, which is a big absent in your list, or increase the number of Snapcasters and Cliques.
I like to say that Myth gives “face” to an already strong spell-suite, most notably Cryptic Command and Supreme Verdict (and Souls). It rewards an interactive game plan, and I believe it focus the deck strategy more than the normal Control/Midrange hybrid. Personally I don’t find Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks and Resto Angle as an appealing control strategy – to me its midrange with counter- instead of kill-spells. However I’m not saying it’s bad, just that I think that Myth promotes a more streamlined plan. It comes down early, meaning I don’t have worry about establishing a threat late game. Lingering Souls urge the opponent to go wide and act as defense, while Verdict sweeps the board (leaving Myth unharmed). Cryptic Command can tap blocker for a clean swing if needed, and the walkers provide additional value. I don’t see why both strategies can’t co-exist?
If you look again I do run the standard counterspell numbers. It’s just that I’ve been testing a configuration – which I’ve begun to love. Normally it’d be the 3 leak / 2 remand split. But instead I’ve opted for a singleton package with Negate, Logic Knot, Condescend, Remand and Shadow of Doubt. Also I don’t think it’s right to run more than one Clique in the 75. The same goes for Snapcaster – more than two copies just seems unnecessary when we don’t have access to red's reach.
Usually a control deck wants a very resilient threat as a win-con (or something that grants us card advantage). Myth can only attack (or block) and does nothing else for us. I guess its place is something like a UW Tempo deck, but I'm not sure about how viable this would be.
That being said, if the card is working for you, then keep going. But be careful with the trap of "It won me many games", cause maybe there's another card that would make your deck win many more, even not being the card that dealt the most damage to the opponent.
This is true, though I don’t really think that the UW “Control” list that plays Walls, Finks, Restoration Angle etc. is a true control deck. It plays more like a midrange deck – in my opinion (I used to play it).
My idea was to bring a set of diverse threats to the table – Myth, Souls & Colonnades. These cards seek to attack from separate angles, thus making no single answer good against all of them. Also, I believe the reason why control decks want a resilient threat is because they’re “sacrificing the control” in order to establish the threat – this because these traditional threats are 5-6 mana bombs. Myth however isn’t a six drop, it’s a one drop that grows as the game progresses. My optimal line is T1 Colonnade, T2 Myth + Visions / Snare, T3 Souls / Interaction / Cantrips / Myth activation, T4 Cryptic Command / Supreme Verdict / Narset etc. At T5 can have a myth ranging from 3/3 to 8/8. Now, if I get careless and getting my Myth killed what did I really lose? Sure, I’m down 1 card that costed me 1 mana. But tell me, was any play pre T2 unnecessary or just there for growing the Myth? I was playing a solid control game, however with the opportunity to attack for 8 at turn 5..
[...] When you play a card like myth, there is less space for stuff like RIP, stony, dispel, clique, mindcensor, etc and the draw power to find these cards.
Where on earth does this statement come from? That makes no sense. If anything, Myth could release space for these cards! Unless you mean that you would slot the Myths alongside the normal creature suite (walls, finks, resto) or in the sideboard(?). If so, I can understand the problem. However, that shouldn't be the idea in the first place - you'll need to do some adjustments for Myth to work. This is like saying Restoration Angle restricts you from playing those cards because you need to add Wall of Omens... At the very least, I have no problems playing those cards you're mentioning when the list is taking Myth into account.
I focus much more on an interactive game plan, and attempt to blank opponents removal, as well as pulling ahead or stabalizing with Jace activations. He is contending with Cryptic Command for best card in the deck really.
This is true, though I don’t really think that the UW “Control” list that plays Walls, Finks, Restoration Angle etc. is a true control deck. It plays more like a midrange deck – in my opinion (I used to play it).
My idea was to bring a set of diverse threats to the table – Myth, Souls & Colonnades. These cards seek to attack from separate angles, thus making no single answer good against all of them. Also, I believe the reason why control decks want a resilient threat is because they’re “sacrificing the control” in order to establish the threat – this because these traditional threats are 5-6 mana bombs. Myth however isn’t a six drop, it’s a one drop that grows as the game progresses. My optimal line is T1 Colonnade, T2 Myth + Visions / Snare, T3 Souls / Interaction / Cantrips / Myth activation, T4 Cryptic Command / Supreme Verdict / Narset etc. At T5 can have a myth ranging from 3/3 to 8/8. Now, if I get careless and getting my Myth killed what did I really lose? Sure, I’m down 1 card that costed me 1 mana. But tell me, was any play pre T2 unnecessary or just there for growing the Myth? I was playing a solid control game, however with the opportunity to attack for 8 at turn 5..
The problem I see with Myth is the fact that it can be easily 1-for-1ed by many decks (not just those with Abrupt Decay, though AD is something we cannot stop). Lingering Souls, on the other hand, is a card that will often require a 2-for-1 if you don't want to get slowly killed by flying spirits.
I'm not saying the card is necessarly junk, but in order to take the most out of it you would probably need to change the deck so much that you would start to take suboptimal decicions and make it more vulnerable against decks that can answer your main gameplan. I see Myth as a "White Delver". Delver dies to pretty much everything in the format. But it is so cheap and cost-efficient that by the time the opponent manages to kill it, it has already dealt enough damage for you to finish him with Bolts, Lavamancers or Young Pyromancer tokens. In a similar way, I can see a deck with Myth packing lots of Paths, Vapor Snags, Remands, Wrath effects and other things that will both grow your Myth and clear the way for him to attack. Question is: how a deck like this will perform against the most common decks in the format?
The problem I see with Myth is the fact that it can be easily 1-for-1ed by many decks (not just those with Abrupt Decay, though AD is something we cannot stop). Lingering Souls, on the other hand, is a card that will often require a 2-for-1 if you don't want to get slowly killed by flying spirits.
I'm not saying the card is necessarly junk, but in order to take the most out of it you would probably need to change the deck so much that you would start to take suboptimal decicions and make it more vulnerable against decks that can answer your main gameplan. I see Myth as a "White Delver". Delver dies to pretty much everything in the format. But it is so cheap and cost-efficient that by the time the opponent manages to kill it, it has already dealt enough damage for you to finish him with Bolts, Lavamancers or Young Pyromancer tokens. In a similar way, I can see a deck with Myth packing lots of Paths, Vapor Snags, Remands, Wrath effects and other things that will both grow your Myth and clear the way for him to attack. Question is: how a deck like this will perform against the most common decks in the format?
This is true, it'll indeed be dealt with 1-for-1. Though I one aspect you seem to ignore is that the card doesn't die to common removal before you deliberately activates it (decay being the exception). Naturaly, being a control deck, I'd have counter spell backup before I attack meaning I decide when I want to fight over the Myth. This means that the opponent always has to consider it, which forces them to either hold up answers or ignore the threat. Because of this, Myth actually gives a surprising amount of free information about your opponents hand. There is also a point in it being a one drop, making almost every trade an even one-for-one. Also if it gets Pathed it would be mana neutral. However, black on white, it does die to removal with no relevant effect other than giving "face" to your control spells.
I have to disagree here. I don't know if you saw my list, but I absolutely don't feel that I've taken sub-optimal decisions for my deck. So far, it actually performs quite well against the most common decks in the format - however there is still testing to be done (my time is a bit limited). But I've learned one thing playing Myth, and that is that it absolutely isn't an agro nor tempo card. It's too much of a tempo loss, and I believe the only decks that can reliably utilize the card are control decks with natural card draw. This includes Jeskai, Esper and UW.
Hello, everyone. I've been working on a UW midrange / control list based around exploiting Perilous Research. It's a bit different from the traditional UW lists in modern, but my post in the deck creation forum has received almost no response. I've been happy with my results so far and believe the deck has legs, but I haven't been able to really talk to anyone about it. Here's the original post I made:
A blue-white control deck based around the premise that Think Twice is garbage drawing two cards for two mana at instant speed is so good we'd gladly build a little differently to accommodate it. I am, or course, referring to the most underrated common in modern, Perilous Research. By playing permanents that replace themselves, the drawback of Perilous Research can even be used to our advantage, turning it into a unique card advantage engine that thrives in the midrange and the long game alike.
So, let's review: The cards we like to pitch to Research are Flagstones of Trokair, Kitchen Finks, Geist of Saint Traft's Angel tokens, sometimes Snapcaster Mage, and, last but not least, Hatching Plans. (Of course, anything with removal aimed at it or anything that won't live through combat also makes for a good choice.) Between the playset of Perilous and the full complement of Snapcaster Mages, we'll almost always have access to our draw/sac engine.
Flagstones doesn't come in tapped, so it's no problem to drop one on turn two and use our opponent's end step to start digging while fetching Hallowed Fountains to fix our mana. Even without a Researches to bin them to, Flagstones are still untapped white sources in a deck with Finks, Path to Exiles, and Supreme Verdicts.
Finks should be fairly self-explanatory. It gains life, it blocks, and it throws three power in front of things, all while coming back and gaining more life. It's a complete nuisance. Honestly, though, I don't find myself pitching him to Perilous very often at all. If the enemy deck plays Paths, however, Perilous saccing Finks is a great play.
Swinging for six and then drawing two makes you feel like a value god, and that's exactly what Geist of Saint Traft does for you. With the Angel token's exile trigger on the stack, simply sac it to Perilous Research.
(Speaking of our creatures: by now you might have realized that Lightning Bolt is terrible against this deck. One of the big advantages it has, honestly.)
While sacrificing Hatching Plans nets you five(!) cards and can make a mulliganed opener much more threatening, you don't want to see it very often - the trade-off for refilling your hand at a moment's notice is doing literally nothing without a Perilous or a Snapcaster Mage in your hand. Ichor Wellspring is a potential replacement for this slot since it does draw a card immediately, but this deck can crack the egg so consistently that the third/fifth card is almost always worth it. Against decks that trade resources on a 1-for-1 ratio like Grixis, Jund, and Abzan, a draw five into Supreme Verdict is almost always game.
Issues I want to address
The Twin matchup is a good place to start. While it's not bad and it stays decent post-board with Negate, Dispel, Ghostly Prison, and Revoke Existence (lololol Keranos), I would like to really give myself an edge here. This would probably entail replacing Logic Knot, seeing as it's terrible against Remand and those are flex slots anyway. I'm tempted to just go for two Remands of my own, and not for my own permission, but to Remand my own spells in blue mirrors.
There's also the new Bx Eldrazi decks that like to exile graveyards. Without having played the matchup yet there's only so much I can speculate on, but we don't appreciate having our graveyard tampered with. I might even consider going up to two Revoke Existence in the side because Rest in Peace is such a problem - Flagstones and Hatching Plans both need to hit the grave to activate. Anyway, the Eldrazi and other problematic lands are why the Ghost Quarters are in over extra basics. Hitting Eldrazi Temples before turn 4 seems important.
On Think Twice and Sun Titan
These would require greater land counts, to be sure. Think Twice is a draw-go card through and through, and we're more of a tap-out style control that can hold up counter magic when it needs to. We like Serum Visions because we can grab it off the top and cast it immediately while still making plays after, and the Perilous engine is just much more efficient for this style of deck, IMO.
Sun Titan is its own thing. I understand that there was a very successful Sun Titan control list recently, and I'm not opposed to including one or two Titans in the main and moving the Detention Spheres in. Having a card that wins me the game if it resolves would be very useful, but I don't know which matchups it would improve and it would require a lot of shifting around and a higher land count. This just doesn't feel like a 26 land strategy - I'm very happy with my 23.
That's all for now! Hope you enjoy the deck. Please leave some feedback.
And here are some matchups I wrote about:
-Merfolk-
Our generous removal suite will be more than enough. If you're feeling especially cruel, you can start countering Silvergill Adepts off the top. If you can't because of an Aether Vial it's nothing to lose sleep over. Post-board we get Ghostly Prison and Detention Sphere to make their lives that much more miserable. Merfolk is very favorable.
-Jund-
They 1-for-1 and lean on Bolt like nobody's business, which is great for us. They're forced to respect a Hatching Plans when they see it in our hand since they can't win if it cracks, which means we get to keep more business spells - worth mentioning is that every Perilous Research you cash in puts you a bit further ahead. Dark Confidant is problematic if it can let them pull ahead on resources, but we should be able to Path / Verdict Bob. In fact, I'd hold up a Path just for him. Liliana of the Veil is good against us but she's also one of the only cards worth using our permission on. So, overall, I'd say Jund is favorable but not an auto-win.
-Zoo-
Their Bolts get aimed straight at our faces, which we have to remember when making combat decisions. Otherwise, Supreme Verdict will almost always nab at least a 2-for-1 because they need to keep pressure on us to have a chance of winning. Always Path Voice of Resurgence the turn after it comes down. The scariest card they have against us is the aforementioned Collected Company, so hold up some counter magic for that if you can. If you can't, though, it's not the end of the world. You can go down to 1 or 0 Hatching Plans after boarding, if you're so inclined. Zoo is favorable.
-UWx Control-
Esper draw-go can't beat a cracked Hatching Plans; neither can UWR, which also has to point Lighting Bolts and Helices at our faces. Same with Grixis, although discard is solid against us. Tap-out strategies are vulnerable to Supreme Verdict and Snapcaster / Familiar's Ruse lock outs. Special mention goes to the Kiki-Resto combo, which does make things trickier for us. It's a broad generalization to make, but I'll go out on a limb and say most if not any UWx control matchup is fairly favorable for us.
-Abzan-
They go big and wide with Seige Rhino, Lingering Souls, and Liliana. They can play around Verdicts with some smart Souls flashbacks once they realize what we're about, which is a complete headache. Scavenging Ooze is worth holding up a Path for, as is Tasigur. On the upside, they also have to respect Hatching Plans or risk losing to it, especially since they don't have Bob to keep above water on card draw. Thus, I think Abzan is either 55-45 in our favor or straight 50-50.
-BUG CoCo-
We can't beat infinite life, but we can exile Kitchen Finks like nobody's business. Gavony Township is a problem, especially with all the Birds of Paradise that can fly over and beat out faces in. Clocking them with Restoration Angel and Celestial Colonnade after clearing up the board is a usual way to win. Finks and Collected Company are the best targets for counter magic, though Spellskite is very awkward and problematic without a Verdict in hand. Having played this one a few times with a friend, I'd say BUG CoCo is either 45-55 in their favor or split 50-50. Though it's probably harder for us than it is for them.
-Splinter Twin-
This can be awful for either player depending on the draws, but overall Splinter Twin doesn't care as much about Hatching Plans getting popped since it has an "Oops, I win" button. They can also grind pretty hard in games 2 and 3. I feel like this is roughly 40-60 in their favor but I've only gone up against UR Twin. Temur Twin seems a bit more manageable for us.
-Bx Eldrazi-
This just feels terrible for us. They go so big so fast and everything we're scared of happens upon casting. Did I mention Newlamog is indestructable? Very unfavorable for us.
-Ad Nauseam, other fringe combos- Stupidly draw-dependent. Pact of Negation makes our lives a lot harder, so getting them to burn Pacts outside of their combo turn puts us significantly closer to winning. Otherwise, I feel like our stack control and the ability to bounce problematic permanents put us in a reasonably favored position over a lot of these decks and at an incredibly swingy 50-50 against Pact decks and otherwise blue decks like Takin' Turns.
Clearly, this deck likes to play fair and win the old-fashioned way, which it's more than capable of doing. What it's missing is better ways to compete with unfair strategies.
I want to test against Tron, Scapeshift, Burn and Affinity, then post more later. I want to say Affinity should be very favorable for us, but it's generally unwise to bet against Affinity.
Here's the list itself if the above spoilers are too long for your liking:
I've been considering the permission suite, as Logic Knot is very bad against Remand, and Twin is everywhere around here. Remand itself as well as Dispel seem like good alternatives. However, one of its big advantages on a more general level is that all six of my counters WILL counter something, and quality permission is hard to come by in modern. Going to 3 Supreme Verdict and including a maindeck Dispel might be good since Collected Company can be a problem for UW, even if we like playing against creatures.
Otherwise, I'm looking for ways to better compete with unfair strategies like Twin, Bx Eldrazi, and Tron. Haven't tested against Scapeshift.
I have tons of applicable sideboard cards against Twin: Wipe Away is a mono-blue Abrupt Decay, Ghostly Prison keeps them from comboing and really slows down their backup plan, Dispels and Negates are obvious, Revoke Existence hits Keranos and Splinter Twin while Celestial Purge hits the same. Though I might cut the Revoke and go up to 3 Stony Silence just to stick it to Tron.
Judging from recent discussion on the Twin primer, they like to combo fast and Dispel hard against us, while Keranos is important for staying at parity on value. The long game should favor us, but they also threaten going off at any second.
Anyway, thanks for reading all that if you kept with me. Any response is appreciated.
EDIT: Also, I'm curious about potentially including planeswalkers in my build. Oath of the Gatewatch's Reflector Mage seems so almost cool enough to warrant inclusion and feels pretty brutal with Familiar's Ruse.
I focus much more on an interactive game plan, and attempt to blank opponents removal, as well as pulling ahead or stabalizing with Jace activations. He is contending with Cryptic Command for best card in the deck really.
The mana base is too soft to blood moon, I'd cut the mistveil and the prarie stream for 2 more basics. You also want the 4th colonnade, its the best card in the deck. Also, as much as I love jace, 4 is simply too many. The cmc of the deck is very high. If you do choose to play a ton of planeswalkers, you want the full set of leaks as it leaves the board less congested when they come down and it's a great catchall against the unfair decks.
Some slight but important updates to the Perilous list. Most notably, I've moved a Verdict to the flex spot in the side, bumping out Revoke Existence, as Celestial Purge does a lot of what it does already and my Affinity matchup did end up being positive. (More on that in a bit.)
As many Dispels as possible are great to have against Twin, and it can catch the odd CoCo. Spell Snare comes in over Familiar's Ruse because Ruse made a lot of hands less keepable, and you certainly don't want to open with two of them.
After several games against Affinity and Twin, I've come to some conclusions:
The Affinity matchup is favorable. Hold up Paths for Nexi if you can, as those are the best cards against us by a long shot. Otherwise, Verdict-Snap-Verdict is brutal and easily breaks through a horde of Etched Champions. Ghost Quarter shines here, and now I'm convinced of its inclusion. Do, however, keep Cranial Plating from resolving, or at least try to Detention Sphere it, and things will get much simpler for you.
The Twin matchup is unfavorable game 1 but becomes immensely more even games 2 and 3. They're going to go long, so get comfortable. For the post-board games, the combo is much less likely to win it for them than Snap-Bolt-Snaps and blue creature pressure backed up by Keranos, God of Storms on the top end. Blood Moon can still be a blowout - fetch a basic Plains early to deal with resolved permanents, including the Moon. Keranos is game-winning on its own. Bring in both Celestial Purges and be prepared to Snap them back, because you're gonna have a fight over this one. If Keranos doesn't stick, though, you've got a great chance of winning. Keep in the 2 Hatching Plans, as an explosive amount of draw can be pivotal. We do bring in two-thirds of the sideboard against them (at least, I do), so the more you can draw the better. Before cutting down to one Ruse, I boarded like this:
-2 Familiar's Ruse
-2 Logic Knot
-3 Supreme Verdict
-2 Kitchen Finks
-1 Geist of St. Traft
Most of the game will go by with no creatures on the board, so Ruse is bad. They run 4 Remand, so Logic Knot is bad, as losing your graveyard puts you pretty significantly behind. Supreme Verdict doesn't do much here and a few creatures can come out for more interaction. The new version has Spell Snare over a Ruse, though, and it exactly tags Remand as well as Negate.
I wouldn't cut the both the logic knots against twin, hard counters are very good against them and you are not obligated to exile the entire yard in the majority of situations. It's a permanent answer to jace/keranos/blood moon where wipe away is not.
With Twin gone this deck maybe?? got a boost for at least two reasons. It definitely gets a boost from the absence of Bloom!!
1. Twin was not a favourable match-up and required a decent amount of sb to get it close to 50-50
2. Affinity is sure to take a much larger meta share - I feel good against Affinity - especially with those sb cards that say 'eat a d**k' affinity
However - Tron will go up as well - this is not a good thing...similarly Eldrazi is going up..
With Twin and Bloom gone UW Control definitely gets a boost in relevance. As the sideboard now can be more streamlined to beat Tron & Affinity. I'm definitely consider upping my Stony Silence count, and packing spreading seas main board. Spellskite seems less relevant now as do dispel, but I'm really glad to be packing Lingering Souls & Myth Realized moving forward.
However, one thing that worries me is that Tron now could up its "boil" count as a lot of their sideboard slots just got unlocked.
Leyline of Sanctity could be a lot more important going forward, especially since Eldrazi hates on your hand harder than any other deck in the format. As of last night, my sideboard looks like this:
I might be going a little hard on the Leylines and Stonies, but they are the best cards for our most popular bad matchups. The midrange and Grixis MUs already wasn't terrible and could've been favorable depending on your build.
As for me, I've found Geist of Saint Traft invaluable against Eldrazi. Leaving something on the field that hits for at least 4 and Pathing/Verdicting their setup creatures with some Ghost Quarter backup is how I win matches against them. Geist being Hexproof is exactly a headache for them.
I'm pretty frustrated with the twin ban, it takes the most prominent blood moon deck out of the format when eldrazi and tron were already becoming extremely popular...this was even before the new oath cards that eldrazi will use. Terrible decision.
Leyline is a pretty bad way of trying to beat Eldrazi. The problem obviously isn't their discard spells, it's their big guys, especially Ulamog. We need to prevent them from casting these large spells for long enough to kill them with some decent clock. Leyline is really not what we need in our sideboard. Nor is D Sphere. It's a maindeck card (not a great one IMHO), but certainly no sb card.
On Geist against Eldrazi, I'm not sure how he's good. They put bodies on the field pretty quickly, he just dies in combat. They even run Damnation. Obviously what we need to act as a clock is more cards like Clique, Resto or Mindcensor, which also disrupt them, while Geist does nothing to disrupt them.
While those creatures are good and disruptive, that deck also has tons of redundancy and generally no problem topdecking what it needs. Those creatures will also bite the dust as soon as they cast (not resolve) one of their 4 maindeck Ulamogs, so then your clock is gone and your hand has no quality answers because their 7 to 8 maindeck discard spells took away your good answers early on. That's the function discard serves in that deck: to strip your hand of any meaningful interaction so you can do nothing but watch as you get your face beaten in by 10/10s. Maybe Leyline isn't the best answer for this, as it is a virtual mulligan, but I'd rather take a mulligan and get to play my answers rather than have them taken from me over the first three turns.
Preventing them from casting is very hard. I've had two maindeck Ghost Quarters for a long time, and even when I've opened on both and curved out decently they're still way ahead. (Also recall that GQ takes up a land drop and still gives them a basic.) I also think Spreading Seas is like fighting a house fire with a watering pale against a deck that runs 4 Heartless Summoning as well as 2-4 Kozilek's Channeler, Conduit of Ruin, and Oblivion Sower. Granted, Spreading is much more effective against Tron. But I think we're being incredibly optimistic when we think some Ghost Qarters and Spreading Seas will make the matchup anywhere close to even for us. If we were a deck that had an immediate way to close out a game I'd be inclined to agree, but we're not UWR Kiki or Twin (RIP). By the way, the games I played against Eldrazi as Twin? The discard was incredibly pivotal and there was no way around that. Even resolving a Blood Moon doesn't win you the game because of those aforementioned acceleration permanents, but it certainly helps the matchup become more bearable for a little while - don't expect the Moon to stick around forever.
I will agree that Mindcensor is quite good and will probably take out the Detention Spheres for 2 of him. Geist, however, is fantastic and I wouldn't dream of cutting him. Like I said, the only games I've won against Eldrazi were because of Geist. My build tended to block with Finks and let them build up presence and then dropped a Supreme Verdict followed by a Geist right before they could get around to casting a first Ulamog (takes care of their Channelers and Conduits, which might even delay them for a turn or two). In an ideal world, Ulamog comes down, can't exile Geist and remove what's losing them the game like it does with everything else, gets Pathed, and I rinse and repeat throwing in Resto Angels and other drawn Geists as needed. Snapcaster often joins in so he can Path something again. Prevent All is Dust and Damnation (which I haven't seen yet though I have no doubt that they run it) from resolving. It is by no means a perfect method, but it's the only sequence that's worked for me thus far.
I don't think this will be like our old Twin matchup where it starts unfavorable and then becomes 50/50 post-board. This matchup starts vastly unfavorable and becomes normally unfavorable post-board. I don't know that any amount of hairsplitting can change it, but I would love to be proven wrong so I can get whatever awesome tech I need.
EDIT: Also, Leyline turns off Oblivion Sower and Thought-Knot Seer. Here's a thread on "beating Bx Eldrazi" since we're currently discussing that. I've only read the first page thus far but will read the whole thing. A Bx E player says Leyline gummed up everything he was trying to do and was generally awful to play against. Combined with Mindcensor that could be some pretty serious disruption. Trickbind gets a mention and I think it could be worth testing.
Twin was a great matchup with my config personally, I was 7-0 or 8-0 at sanctioned against them. But I had think twices revs and tecs so my deck fought on a different axis. It's also a very skill intensive matchup so I gained a lot of points from playing against it so often when I first started control in modern. Aller - I agree with your approach to the eldrazi matchup, clock and mana disruption whenever you can. Gq is better against tron but tec is asboltely better against eldrazi so I really think a split is better. Plus if you move to spreading seas tec will be on more often even in the inkmoth matchups.
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RBUGrixis ControlUBR
GUSimic MerfolkUG
WUUW ControlUW
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
BUUB MillUB
Colorless Eldrazi Tron
WRBurnRW
GUSimic MerfolkUG
UMono U TurnsU
WGGenesis Wave EnchantressGW
I guess the highest cost is not the mana you pay for it, but the card you spend for the effect.
I assum Think Twice and Sphinx's Revelation are the best options
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
True, true. I run it in a build with something like 6-7 Wraths, so I'm not really scared of creature decks. And of course Myth avoids the wraths, but can then turn into a creature when required. The build is weak to combo and burn, though.
This is the whole issue with dedicating slots to myth realized, creature matchups will always be our strong suit. It's about picking up points where you can against combo. When you play a card like myth, there is less space for stuff like RIP, stony, dispel, clique, mindcensor, etc and the draw power to find these cards. Leaks are an absolute must in my opinion as well, against nearly all the combo decks you will need to stop their payoff cards once or twice and the rate and the speed at which leak does this is tough to find elsewhere.
Burn should also be one of the best matchups for our deck, if not the single best. Finks/wall/snare/leak and siding dispels and life gain is very difficult for them to beat. Burn is so popular that you cannot afford to have a bad matchup there. Have you posted your list?
Yeah, it's been great for me. Eldrazi is a really tough matchup, with bw being the toughest of all since souls really hampers the beatdown we need to have. The most effective way to fight them in my experience is to attack their mana whenever possible and board in stoneys. Sower of oblivion is the card that kills us, so keeping them off of 6 mana when we can is crucial and having cliques to interact before cast triggers. Seas might be the single best control card in the format against tron as well since it stops natural tron, even if you are on the draw, and it skirts the crucible/life of the loam that people will have in their boards since it doesn't actually kill their land and it doesnt set us back a land like gq/tec do. I'm really liking my current build, I took some of what Aller was working with by adding a single shadow and single clique to the maindeck and they have performed well. I've gone 4-1, 5-0, and 4-1 in my last three mtgo leagues, losing to g/b elves and bloom but beating several "bad" matchups over that span.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-02-15-pmq-uw-control/
I've used this 75 for the last three leagues.
Out of curiosity, is this a list based on metagame considerations? If so, what would your list against an unknown field look like?
Cool, yeah I definitely like the third verdict main in this. Lil isnt that hard to beat honestly. You have a set of leaks, a few cryptics/spreading seas and your creature suite lines up well. I play one sphere personally and its an answer to a resolved plating, which is how they kill you in most games, but I wouldn't fault anyone for running zero.
I see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess you don’t need to test every single card, but then again you shouldn’t be too quick to judge a card you’ve never tested. I honestly recommend reading this article.
Indeed. I really have to stress that you simply cannot slot Myth into UW Midrange and expect it to work. It requires some more defining deck changes, almost at the same axis as Emira Control. However your only option isn’t to be draw go. As you briefly saw, I run the full playset of Souls & Visions, alongside sweepers and walkers. Like, Narset becomes a great due to the spell density Myth facilitates. Context is important - the environment the card is ‘living’ in.
Tron is, and will always be a difficult matchup for UW Control. No matter the version. However, I've managed to make it feel like a 40/50 matchup which is enough for me. Here, Myth becomes invaluable as it establishes a t1 threat, allowing you to focus on disruption at the crucial turn 3-4. Most of my wins comes from a properly stalled game, and a huge Myth (or Narset / Tamiyo ultimate). Playing Walls and Finks against Tron just felt bad, to the point where I decided to test something new. I’m excited to pitch the list against Eldrazi and see how it fares.
You’re absolutely right that there are other good options, but most of them are 3 CMC and above. None which are a one drop (if we exclude the auto-include Colonnades). With most UW lists you’ll normally have make a decision before establishing a serious threat: “Do I hold represent disruption, or do go for pressure?” Restoration Angle and Snapcaster being the exception.
I believe this is the important part, Myth doesn’t need “interaction” with other cards, it triggers on cast, by the cards I’m already playing. Nowhere in my list do I have a unique card just for Myth alone! That’s the beauty of it, the card doesn’t requires any specific card to work - just that you pack a higher noncreature count.
I like to say that Myth gives “face” to an already strong spell-suite, most notably Cryptic Command and Supreme Verdict (and Souls). It rewards an interactive game plan, and I believe it focus the deck strategy more than the normal Control/Midrange hybrid. Personally I don’t find Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks and Resto Angle as an appealing control strategy – to me its midrange with counter- instead of kill-spells. However I’m not saying it’s bad, just that I think that Myth promotes a more streamlined plan. It comes down early, meaning I don’t have worry about establishing a threat late game. Lingering Souls urge the opponent to go wide and act as defense, while Verdict sweeps the board (leaving Myth unharmed). Cryptic Command can tap blocker for a clean swing if needed, and the walkers provide additional value. I don’t see why both strategies can’t co-exist?
If you look again I do run the standard counterspell numbers. It’s just that I’ve been testing a configuration – which I’ve begun to love. Normally it’d be the 3 leak / 2 remand split. But instead I’ve opted for a singleton package with Negate, Logic Knot, Condescend, Remand and Shadow of Doubt. Also I don’t think it’s right to run more than one Clique in the 75. The same goes for Snapcaster – more than two copies just seems unnecessary when we don’t have access to red's reach.
This is true, though I don’t really think that the UW “Control” list that plays Walls, Finks, Restoration Angle etc. is a true control deck. It plays more like a midrange deck – in my opinion (I used to play it).
My idea was to bring a set of diverse threats to the table – Myth, Souls & Colonnades. These cards seek to attack from separate angles, thus making no single answer good against all of them. Also, I believe the reason why control decks want a resilient threat is because they’re “sacrificing the control” in order to establish the threat – this because these traditional threats are 5-6 mana bombs. Myth however isn’t a six drop, it’s a one drop that grows as the game progresses. My optimal line is T1 Colonnade, T2 Myth + Visions / Snare, T3 Souls / Interaction / Cantrips / Myth activation, T4 Cryptic Command / Supreme Verdict / Narset etc. At T5 can have a myth ranging from 3/3 to 8/8. Now, if I get careless and getting my Myth killed what did I really lose? Sure, I’m down 1 card that costed me 1 mana. But tell me, was any play pre T2 unnecessary or just there for growing the Myth? I was playing a solid control game, however with the opportunity to attack for 8 at turn 5..
Where on earth does this statement come from? That makes no sense. If anything, Myth could release space for these cards! Unless you mean that you would slot the Myths alongside the normal creature suite (walls, finks, resto) or in the sideboard(?). If so, I can understand the problem. However, that shouldn't be the idea in the first place - you'll need to do some adjustments for Myth to work. This is like saying Restoration Angle restricts you from playing those cards because you need to add Wall of Omens... At the very least, I have no problems playing those cards you're mentioning when the list is taking Myth into account.
Hard U/W control
I focus much more on an interactive game plan, and attempt to blank opponents removal, as well as pulling ahead or stabalizing with Jace activations. He is contending with Cryptic Command for best card in the deck really.
The problem I see with Myth is the fact that it can be easily 1-for-1ed by many decks (not just those with Abrupt Decay, though AD is something we cannot stop). Lingering Souls, on the other hand, is a card that will often require a 2-for-1 if you don't want to get slowly killed by flying spirits.
I'm not saying the card is necessarly junk, but in order to take the most out of it you would probably need to change the deck so much that you would start to take suboptimal decicions and make it more vulnerable against decks that can answer your main gameplan. I see Myth as a "White Delver". Delver dies to pretty much everything in the format. But it is so cheap and cost-efficient that by the time the opponent manages to kill it, it has already dealt enough damage for you to finish him with Bolts, Lavamancers or Young Pyromancer tokens. In a similar way, I can see a deck with Myth packing lots of Paths, Vapor Snags, Remands, Wrath effects and other things that will both grow your Myth and clear the way for him to attack. Question is: how a deck like this will perform against the most common decks in the format?
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
This is true, it'll indeed be dealt with 1-for-1. Though I one aspect you seem to ignore is that the card doesn't die to common removal before you deliberately activates it (decay being the exception). Naturaly, being a control deck, I'd have counter spell backup before I attack meaning I decide when I want to fight over the Myth. This means that the opponent always has to consider it, which forces them to either hold up answers or ignore the threat. Because of this, Myth actually gives a surprising amount of free information about your opponents hand. There is also a point in it being a one drop, making almost every trade an even one-for-one. Also if it gets Pathed it would be mana neutral. However, black on white, it does die to removal with no relevant effect other than giving "face" to your control spells.
I have to disagree here. I don't know if you saw my list, but I absolutely don't feel that I've taken sub-optimal decisions for my deck. So far, it actually performs quite well against the most common decks in the format - however there is still testing to be done (my time is a bit limited). But I've learned one thing playing Myth, and that is that it absolutely isn't an agro nor tempo card. It's too much of a tempo loss, and I believe the only decks that can reliably utilize the card are control decks with natural card draw. This includes Jeskai, Esper and UW.
Think Twice is garbagedrawing two cards for two mana at instant speed is so good we'd gladly build a little differently to accommodate it. I am, or course, referring to the most underrated common in modern, Perilous Research. By playing permanents that replace themselves, the drawback of Perilous Research can even be used to our advantage, turning it into a unique card advantage engine that thrives in the midrange and the long game alike.4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Celestial Colonnade
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
-Draw-
4 Perilous Research
2 Hatching Plans
4 Serum Visions
2 Familiar's Ruse
2 Logic Knot
2 Cryptic Command
-Removal-
4 Path to Exile
4 Supreme Verdict
-Creatures-
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Revoke Existence
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Wipe Away
2 Detention Sphere
2 Celestial Purge
The Perilous Engine:
So, let's review: The cards we like to pitch to Research are Flagstones of Trokair, Kitchen Finks, Geist of Saint Traft's Angel tokens, sometimes Snapcaster Mage, and, last but not least, Hatching Plans. (Of course, anything with removal aimed at it or anything that won't live through combat also makes for a good choice.) Between the playset of Perilous and the full complement of Snapcaster Mages, we'll almost always have access to our draw/sac engine.
Flagstones doesn't come in tapped, so it's no problem to drop one on turn two and use our opponent's end step to start digging while fetching Hallowed Fountains to fix our mana. Even without a Researches to bin them to, Flagstones are still untapped white sources in a deck with Finks, Path to Exiles, and Supreme Verdicts.
Finks should be fairly self-explanatory. It gains life, it blocks, and it throws three power in front of things, all while coming back and gaining more life. It's a complete nuisance. Honestly, though, I don't find myself pitching him to Perilous very often at all. If the enemy deck plays Paths, however, Perilous saccing Finks is a great play.
Swinging for six and then drawing two makes you feel like a value god, and that's exactly what Geist of Saint Traft does for you. With the Angel token's exile trigger on the stack, simply sac it to Perilous Research.
(Speaking of our creatures: by now you might have realized that Lightning Bolt is terrible against this deck. One of the big advantages it has, honestly.)
While sacrificing Hatching Plans nets you five(!) cards and can make a mulliganed opener much more threatening, you don't want to see it very often - the trade-off for refilling your hand at a moment's notice is doing literally nothing without a Perilous or a Snapcaster Mage in your hand. Ichor Wellspring is a potential replacement for this slot since it does draw a card immediately, but this deck can crack the egg so consistently that the third/fifth card is almost always worth it. Against decks that trade resources on a 1-for-1 ratio like Grixis, Jund, and Abzan, a draw five into Supreme Verdict is almost always game.
Issues I want to address
The Twin matchup is a good place to start. While it's not bad and it stays decent post-board with Negate, Dispel, Ghostly Prison, and Revoke Existence (lololol Keranos), I would like to really give myself an edge here. This would probably entail replacing Logic Knot, seeing as it's terrible against Remand and those are flex slots anyway. I'm tempted to just go for two Remands of my own, and not for my own permission, but to Remand my own spells in blue mirrors.
There's also the new Bx Eldrazi decks that like to exile graveyards. Without having played the matchup yet there's only so much I can speculate on, but we don't appreciate having our graveyard tampered with. I might even consider going up to two Revoke Existence in the side because Rest in Peace is such a problem - Flagstones and Hatching Plans both need to hit the grave to activate. Anyway, the Eldrazi and other problematic lands are why the Ghost Quarters are in over extra basics. Hitting Eldrazi Temples before turn 4 seems important.
On Think Twice and Sun Titan
These would require greater land counts, to be sure. Think Twice is a draw-go card through and through, and we're more of a tap-out style control that can hold up counter magic when it needs to. We like Serum Visions because we can grab it off the top and cast it immediately while still making plays after, and the Perilous engine is just much more efficient for this style of deck, IMO.
Sun Titan is its own thing. I understand that there was a very successful Sun Titan control list recently, and I'm not opposed to including one or two Titans in the main and moving the Detention Spheres in. Having a card that wins me the game if it resolves would be very useful, but I don't know which matchups it would improve and it would require a lot of shifting around and a higher land count. This just doesn't feel like a 26 land strategy - I'm very happy with my 23.
That's all for now! Hope you enjoy the deck. Please leave some feedback.
And here are some matchups I wrote about:
Our generous removal suite will be more than enough. If you're feeling especially cruel, you can start countering Silvergill Adepts off the top. If you can't because of an Aether Vial it's nothing to lose sleep over. Post-board we get Ghostly Prison and Detention Sphere to make their lives that much more miserable. Merfolk is very favorable.
-Jund-
They 1-for-1 and lean on Bolt like nobody's business, which is great for us. They're forced to respect a Hatching Plans when they see it in our hand since they can't win if it cracks, which means we get to keep more business spells - worth mentioning is that every Perilous Research you cash in puts you a bit further ahead. Dark Confidant is problematic if it can let them pull ahead on resources, but we should be able to Path / Verdict Bob. In fact, I'd hold up a Path just for him. Liliana of the Veil is good against us but she's also one of the only cards worth using our permission on. So, overall, I'd say Jund is favorable but not an auto-win.
-Zoo-
Their Bolts get aimed straight at our faces, which we have to remember when making combat decisions. Otherwise, Supreme Verdict will almost always nab at least a 2-for-1 because they need to keep pressure on us to have a chance of winning. Always Path Voice of Resurgence the turn after it comes down. The scariest card they have against us is the aforementioned Collected Company, so hold up some counter magic for that if you can. If you can't, though, it's not the end of the world. You can go down to 1 or 0 Hatching Plans after boarding, if you're so inclined. Zoo is favorable.
-UWx Control-
Esper draw-go can't beat a cracked Hatching Plans; neither can UWR, which also has to point Lighting Bolts and Helices at our faces. Same with Grixis, although discard is solid against us. Tap-out strategies are vulnerable to Supreme Verdict and Snapcaster / Familiar's Ruse lock outs. Special mention goes to the Kiki-Resto combo, which does make things trickier for us. It's a broad generalization to make, but I'll go out on a limb and say most if not any UWx control matchup is fairly favorable for us.
-Abzan-
They go big and wide with Seige Rhino, Lingering Souls, and Liliana. They can play around Verdicts with some smart Souls flashbacks once they realize what we're about, which is a complete headache. Scavenging Ooze is worth holding up a Path for, as is Tasigur. On the upside, they also have to respect Hatching Plans or risk losing to it, especially since they don't have Bob to keep above water on card draw. Thus, I think Abzan is either 55-45 in our favor or straight 50-50.
-BUG CoCo-
We can't beat infinite life, but we can exile Kitchen Finks like nobody's business. Gavony Township is a problem, especially with all the Birds of Paradise that can fly over and beat out faces in. Clocking them with Restoration Angel and Celestial Colonnade after clearing up the board is a usual way to win. Finks and Collected Company are the best targets for counter magic, though Spellskite is very awkward and problematic without a Verdict in hand. Having played this one a few times with a friend, I'd say BUG CoCo is either 45-55 in their favor or split 50-50. Though it's probably harder for us than it is for them.
-Splinter Twin-
This can be awful for either player depending on the draws, but overall Splinter Twin doesn't care as much about Hatching Plans getting popped since it has an "Oops, I win" button. They can also grind pretty hard in games 2 and 3. I feel like this is roughly 40-60 in their favor but I've only gone up against UR Twin. Temur Twin seems a bit more manageable for us.
-Bx Eldrazi-
This just feels terrible for us. They go so big so fast and everything we're scared of happens upon casting. Did I mention Newlamog is indestructable? Very unfavorable for us.
-Ad Nauseam, other fringe combos-
Stupidly draw-dependent. Pact of Negation makes our lives a lot harder, so getting them to burn Pacts outside of their combo turn puts us significantly closer to winning. Otherwise, I feel like our stack control and the ability to bounce problematic permanents put us in a reasonably favored position over a lot of these decks and at an incredibly swingy 50-50 against Pact decks and otherwise blue decks like Takin' Turns.
Clearly, this deck likes to play fair and win the old-fashioned way, which it's more than capable of doing. What it's missing is better ways to compete with unfair strategies.
I want to test against Tron, Scapeshift, Burn and Affinity, then post more later. I want to say Affinity should be very favorable for us, but it's generally unwise to bet against Affinity.
Here's the list itself if the above spoilers are too long for your liking:
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Celestial Colonnade
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
-Draw-
4 Perilous Research
2 Hatching Plans
4 Serum Visions
2 Familiar's Ruse
2 Logic Knot
2 Cryptic Command
-Removal-
4 Path to Exile
4 Supreme Verdict
-Creatures-
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Revoke Existence
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Wipe Away
2 Detention Sphere
2 Celestial Purge
I've been considering the permission suite, as Logic Knot is very bad against Remand, and Twin is everywhere around here. Remand itself as well as Dispel seem like good alternatives. However, one of its big advantages on a more general level is that all six of my counters WILL counter something, and quality permission is hard to come by in modern. Going to 3 Supreme Verdict and including a maindeck Dispel might be good since Collected Company can be a problem for UW, even if we like playing against creatures.
Otherwise, I'm looking for ways to better compete with unfair strategies like Twin, Bx Eldrazi, and Tron. Haven't tested against Scapeshift.
I have tons of applicable sideboard cards against Twin: Wipe Away is a mono-blue Abrupt Decay, Ghostly Prison keeps them from comboing and really slows down their backup plan, Dispels and Negates are obvious, Revoke Existence hits Keranos and Splinter Twin while Celestial Purge hits the same. Though I might cut the Revoke and go up to 3 Stony Silence just to stick it to Tron.
Judging from recent discussion on the Twin primer, they like to combo fast and Dispel hard against us, while Keranos is important for staying at parity on value. The long game should favor us, but they also threaten going off at any second.
Anyway, thanks for reading all that if you kept with me. Any response is appreciated.
EDIT: Also, I'm curious about potentially including planeswalkers in my build. Oath of the Gatewatch's Reflector Mage seems so almost cool enough to warrant inclusion and feels pretty brutal with Familiar's Ruse.
The mana base is too soft to blood moon, I'd cut the mistveil and the prarie stream for 2 more basics. You also want the 4th colonnade, its the best card in the deck. Also, as much as I love jace, 4 is simply too many. The cmc of the deck is very high. If you do choose to play a ton of planeswalkers, you want the full set of leaks as it leaves the board less congested when they come down and it's a great catchall against the unfair decks.
The changes are:
-1 Supreme Verdict
-1 Familiar's Ruse
+1 Dispel
+1 Spell Snare
As many Dispels as possible are great to have against Twin, and it can catch the odd CoCo. Spell Snare comes in over Familiar's Ruse because Ruse made a lot of hands less keepable, and you certainly don't want to open with two of them.
Side:
-1 Revoke Existence
+1 Supreme Verdict
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Celestial Colonnade
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
-Draw-
4 Perilous Research
2 Hatching Plans
4 Serum Visions
1 Familiar's Ruse
2 Logic Knot
2 Cryptic Command
1 Dispel
1 Spell Snare
-Removal-
4 Path to Exile
3 Supreme Verdict
-Creatures-
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Wipe Away
2 Detention Sphere
2 Celestial Purge
After several games against Affinity and Twin, I've come to some conclusions:
The Affinity matchup is favorable. Hold up Paths for Nexi if you can, as those are the best cards against us by a long shot. Otherwise, Verdict-Snap-Verdict is brutal and easily breaks through a horde of Etched Champions. Ghost Quarter shines here, and now I'm convinced of its inclusion. Do, however, keep Cranial Plating from resolving, or at least try to Detention Sphere it, and things will get much simpler for you.
The Twin matchup is unfavorable game 1 but becomes immensely more even games 2 and 3. They're going to go long, so get comfortable. For the post-board games, the combo is much less likely to win it for them than Snap-Bolt-Snaps and blue creature pressure backed up by Keranos, God of Storms on the top end. Blood Moon can still be a blowout - fetch a basic Plains early to deal with resolved permanents, including the Moon. Keranos is game-winning on its own. Bring in both Celestial Purges and be prepared to Snap them back, because you're gonna have a fight over this one. If Keranos doesn't stick, though, you've got a great chance of winning. Keep in the 2 Hatching Plans, as an explosive amount of draw can be pivotal. We do bring in two-thirds of the sideboard against them (at least, I do), so the more you can draw the better. Before cutting down to one Ruse, I boarded like this:
-2 Familiar's Ruse
-2 Logic Knot
-3 Supreme Verdict
-2 Kitchen Finks
-1 Geist of St. Traft
+2 Wipe Away
+2 Ghostly Prison
+2 Dispel
+2 Negate
+2 Celestial Purge
Most of the game will go by with no creatures on the board, so Ruse is bad. They run 4 Remand, so Logic Knot is bad, as losing your graveyard puts you pretty significantly behind. Supreme Verdict doesn't do much here and a few creatures can come out for more interaction. The new version has Spell Snare over a Ruse, though, and it exactly tags Remand as well as Negate.
Anyway, that's the latest.
1. Twin was not a favourable match-up and required a decent amount of sb to get it close to 50-50
2. Affinity is sure to take a much larger meta share - I feel good against Affinity - especially with those sb cards that say 'eat a d**k' affinity
However - Tron will go up as well - this is not a good thing...similarly Eldrazi is going up..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
However, one thing that worries me is that Tron now could up its "boil" count as a lot of their sideboard slots just got unlocked.
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Celestial Purge
2 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
I might be going a little hard on the Leylines and Stonies, but they are the best cards for our most popular bad matchups. The midrange and Grixis MUs already wasn't terrible and could've been favorable depending on your build.
As for me, I've found Geist of Saint Traft invaluable against Eldrazi. Leaving something on the field that hits for at least 4 and Pathing/Verdicting their setup creatures with some Ghost Quarter backup is how I win matches against them. Geist being Hexproof is exactly a headache for them.
While those creatures are good and disruptive, that deck also has tons of redundancy and generally no problem topdecking what it needs. Those creatures will also bite the dust as soon as they cast (not resolve) one of their 4 maindeck Ulamogs, so then your clock is gone and your hand has no quality answers because their 7 to 8 maindeck discard spells took away your good answers early on. That's the function discard serves in that deck: to strip your hand of any meaningful interaction so you can do nothing but watch as you get your face beaten in by 10/10s. Maybe Leyline isn't the best answer for this, as it is a virtual mulligan, but I'd rather take a mulligan and get to play my answers rather than have them taken from me over the first three turns.
Preventing them from casting is very hard. I've had two maindeck Ghost Quarters for a long time, and even when I've opened on both and curved out decently they're still way ahead. (Also recall that GQ takes up a land drop and still gives them a basic.) I also think Spreading Seas is like fighting a house fire with a watering pale against a deck that runs 4 Heartless Summoning as well as 2-4 Kozilek's Channeler, Conduit of Ruin, and Oblivion Sower. Granted, Spreading is much more effective against Tron. But I think we're being incredibly optimistic when we think some Ghost Qarters and Spreading Seas will make the matchup anywhere close to even for us. If we were a deck that had an immediate way to close out a game I'd be inclined to agree, but we're not UWR Kiki or Twin (RIP). By the way, the games I played against Eldrazi as Twin? The discard was incredibly pivotal and there was no way around that. Even resolving a Blood Moon doesn't win you the game because of those aforementioned acceleration permanents, but it certainly helps the matchup become more bearable for a little while - don't expect the Moon to stick around forever.
I will agree that Mindcensor is quite good and will probably take out the Detention Spheres for 2 of him. Geist, however, is fantastic and I wouldn't dream of cutting him. Like I said, the only games I've won against Eldrazi were because of Geist. My build tended to block with Finks and let them build up presence and then dropped a Supreme Verdict followed by a Geist right before they could get around to casting a first Ulamog (takes care of their Channelers and Conduits, which might even delay them for a turn or two). In an ideal world, Ulamog comes down, can't exile Geist and remove what's losing them the game like it does with everything else, gets Pathed, and I rinse and repeat throwing in Resto Angels and other drawn Geists as needed. Snapcaster often joins in so he can Path something again. Prevent All is Dust and Damnation (which I haven't seen yet though I have no doubt that they run it) from resolving. It is by no means a perfect method, but it's the only sequence that's worked for me thus far.
I don't think this will be like our old Twin matchup where it starts unfavorable and then becomes 50/50 post-board. This matchup starts vastly unfavorable and becomes normally unfavorable post-board. I don't know that any amount of hairsplitting can change it, but I would love to be proven wrong so I can get whatever awesome tech I need.
EDIT: Also, Leyline turns off Oblivion Sower and Thought-Knot Seer. Here's a thread on "beating Bx Eldrazi" since we're currently discussing that. I've only read the first page thus far but will read the whole thing. A Bx E player says Leyline gummed up everything he was trying to do and was generally awful to play against. Combined with Mindcensor that could be some pretty serious disruption. Trickbind gets a mention and I think it could be worth testing.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/660897-beating-bx-eldrazi