I heard the commentators mention that he had a lot of 1x and 2x in his deck, but that's about it for now. We'll know more if he can keep up his run and finish in the top 16/32.
He was playing at least 1 Remand and 1 Mana Leak main deck. Interesting inclusions were at least 1 Bedlam Reveler and 1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
Before round 9 they almost read loud his entire list:
4x delver of secrets
4x snapcaster mage
2x young pyromancer
1x pia and kiran nalaar
1x nimble obstructionist
1x bedlam reveler
4x serum visions
4x lightning bolt
4x remand
3x blood moon (base)
And “a couple” electrolyze, opt, vapor snags and mana leaks (guess 2-3 each)
I haven't played Modern since shortly after the Eldrazi ban. I've never played blue in Modern before, but after I stepped away from Modern, I fell in love with blue while playing EDH and building my cube. My wife used to play Delver during the Treasure Cruise days, so I'm familiar playing against the old version of the deck.
I've been thinking about getting back into FNM-level competitive Magic, and since Pauper isn't happening at my place anytime soon and I have no interest in Standard, Modern is it. I used to play Loam Pox and 8 Rack, neither of which appeal to me at all these days. I'm looking at cards I can pull together pretty easily, and UR Delver looks like a good fit. The meta around here seems to be infested with Tron-based decks, and I've always wanted to play with Blood Moon anyway. Plus Chart a Course and Opt make blue attacking decks more enticing than they used to be.
In short: is it worth picking up a few pieces and playing this deck? It seems fun and like a fun, semi unique deck to play in Modern these days.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Hi guys, someone uploaded this list in mtgoldfish saying it was de list of Kukor, what do you think? It seens legit to me. I'm gonna play this list this fnm, then I will make a report. Do you recomend some changes to the list? I don't know if I have to play one more spell snare or some Abrade in main, because there is a lot of eldrazi tron in my meta. What do you sugest?
Hi guys, someone uploaded this list in mtgoldfish saying it was de list of Kukor, what do you think? It seens legit to me. I'm gonna play this list this fnm, then I will make a report. Do you recomend some changes to the list? I don't know if I have to play one more spell snare or some Abrade in main, because there is a lot of eldrazi tron in my meta. What do you sugest?
Thank you for posting it, I've been looking for it for days. It does seem legit. He ended up #38 of nearly 1000 contestants.
I'm going to try it out as well. I will make 2 changes to the SB:
-2 smash to smithereens
+2 abrade
-1 blood moon
+1 batterskull (this change is for my meta)
Bedlam Reveler - This seems really bad with 9 counter spells, 4 of which replace thrmselves. This could honestly just be a single copy of Ancestral Visions.
Nimble Obstructionist - I don't understand why this card over Clique. Sure, sometimes you get to counter a expeition map activation or stone rain someone but Clique answers cards before your opp can play them AND you can always target yourself.
4 Remand - I have never really liked Remand in Delver decks and lke it even less with thr printing of Fatal Push. Twin could maximize on Remands because it could cantrip into a win. Delver is aggrressive, but games still take some turns to finish.
It's hilarious how I have come to many of these same conclusions on my own before reading the last few pages. I have been playing a UR Chart a Course list to ~65% win rate through a few leagues now (and a few with my pre-shoal version on top of that).
I want to preface by saying that I have never been a Disrupting Shoal fan. I have always tried it in my lists and always come to the same conclusion: I'd rather have a split of spell snare/spell pierce/mana leak (or whatever) because the card disadvantage was so backbreaking. It works in legacy because you need it (let's be honest, you're never casting shoal on t1 to a literal game winning play) and because of daze tbh.
But Chart a Course changes everything. Now saving your dork when they push it gets you a draw 2 as a reward. Conversely, tapping out for chart a course on t2 can draw you into shoaling their t2 play. Not to mention young peezy into shoal is as great as it is in legacy...Honestly, I don't want to be too aggressive, but shoal/chart feels a lot like fow/brainstorm in many subtle ways. In fact, the deck plays a lot like a legacy deck in that you have to be patient. It's not an aggro list; it's classic tempo.
The main deck is just raw power (and disrupting shoal, which, I swear is good in this deck, I promise) (oh and remand, but c'mon you need that card). The spread of 1 and 2 mana spells also translates to a nice selection in game for shoal. As for remand, the tempo has won me more than 1 game (many in fact), and is one of the few ways you can beat tron/scapeshift/etc. g1. Where remand lacks in power, it more than makes up for in versatility, also. This is also, incidentally enough, why shoal has been so outstanding.
I'm not going to preach to the choir at this point, but chart a course is bonkers and I don't think there is any going back. Is it cruise? of course not, but this card is truth, no doubt about it.
I feel like I have to highlight once more just how much I used to hate disrupting shoal, which I feel gives my decision more credibility somehow...in reality, I actually keep winning, instead of losing like I used to. And I feel better/more in control/confident than when I had whatever other counters were there before, particularly knowing that I will be able to make up the card disadvantage if I need to with a chart a course later.
I want to touch on the swiftspear/guide debate because it has been on my mind a lot. There are many games where guide would probably have done more damage, but at the same time, I can't bring myself to cut swiftspear. That you can ride her into the late game and make her a 3/4 or 4/5 is actually incredibly relevant, where goblin guide is just an embarrassment.
Also, if you aren't playing snapcaster, I'm sorry, but you have to be doing it wrong. I play a similar list in legacy, and there is no way that playing something like stormchaser mage has ever been better than snapcaster. Why would you play such trash in a format that has so much power? Anyway, /rant sorry. But the argument stands, bolt snap bolt is better than any "aggressive" creature you can possibly name.
As for the board, I have fully embraced the tempo strategy. Having a diverse counter-suite is the way to go and further pushes you into the tempo/having patience gameplay. Blood moon is a house, and also wins what may otherwise be hard matchups. Spree kills chalice and is cheap, and can be a 3 or even 4 for 1 in some matchups. Cage cause, again, of it's versatility and cheap cost. Needle as a cheap, versatile (suprise) answer to planeswalkers and other nonsense. Entrancing melody is kinda the flavor of the month, but it has been a blow out in various games, including GDS.
I want to give a special mention to echoing truth, as it is really the glue that holds everything together. As you can tell, I value versatility highly in modern and echoing truth is everything from a token sweeper to an enchantment remover. I have probably won as many games because of echoing truth than any other sideboard card. It's not even like a "gotcha" card (even though it can give you some free wins from opponents not playing around it), it's just a great answer to a lot of things that give us trouble. I regularly bring in 1 as a hedge in most matchups.
You've sold me on Disrupting Shoal. Proxied them up and have a list pretty similar to yours that will be ready to go for FNM in a few weeks. I'm excited. I've literally never played blue in Modern, so this will be new. The deck seems to have a pretty steep learning curve, but I draft blue from my cube a lot so I've got some idea.
A few questions:
1. Any thought to a slightly larger creature as a one-of somewhere in the 75? I know some of the similar RUG decks are playing a Huntmaster or two, but for us it'd probably be more like a Clique.
2. Are the Vapor Snags and Disdainful Strokes enough for the delve creatures? Do you bring in Echoing Truth for those, too?
3. Any thought to a main deck Blood Moon?
4. Seems a little light on grave hate in the side. I know lots of pros recommend 4 pieces. Cage seems good and versatile, as you say, but maybe a Relic of Progenitus or even a Surgical Extraction would be a good addition in certain metas?
5. Any thought to Abrade in the side? Seems versatile and dodges Chalice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
You've sold me on Disrupting Shoal. Proxied them up and have a list pretty similar to yours that will be ready to go for FNM in a few weeks. I'm excited. I've literally never played blue in Modern, so this will be new. The deck seems to have a pretty steep learning curve, but I draft blue from my cube a lot so I've got some idea.
A few questions:
1. Any thought to a slightly larger creature as a one-of somewhere in the 75? I know some of the similar RUG decks are playing a Huntmaster or two, but for us it'd probably be more like a Clique.
2. Are the Vapor Snags and Disdainful Strokes enough for the delve creatures? Do you bring in Echoing Truth for those, too?
3. Any thought to a main deck Blood Moon?
4. Seems a little light on grave hate in the side. I know lots of pros recommend 4 pieces. Cage seems good and versatile, as you say, but maybe a Relic of Progenitus or even a Surgical Extraction would be a good addition in certain metas?
5. Any thought to Abrade in the side? Seems versatile and dodges Chalice.
1. I have very much thought about it. It would probably be over an enchanting melody. Haven't thought much about what, though, so feel free to test. Generally, Chart a Course does incredible things, so the need for extra threats is not as high as in other delver decks.
2. I would say overall, yes. And yes, I do bring in Truth in most delve matchups because those are also fair matchups, where I usually cut Shoal completely. Non-trample creatures generally are not a problem if you have an active Pyromancer as well. I usually try to maneuver it so I have that going and just fly over with delver (which probably makes clique a great choice for #1). Tempoing with remand is great too (usually leave in 2) cause they will normally take another turn to restock the yard. Also, I will usually board out 2 swiftspear (or more on the draw).
3. Honestly, it is so good in the board, and the main is so focused, that I think it's right to keep it there. I'm sure there are metagames where it would be called for, but it's a great way to beat removal in games 2 and 3, so tipping them off isn't worth it.
4. GY hate is definitely light, but it's mostly because the only real GY deck I'm worried about is Dredge, and echoing truth is actually great against their nut draw, so probably would shave 1 there if you wanted to add more gy hate. I would stick with cage, though, for it's versatility and because it's the cleanest and most backbreaking at 1. That you don't have to invest anything else into it is actually a really big deal. Surgical maybe, but I'm not the biggest fan of it in modern rn. GY hate in modern is kind of whatever you want it to be though, so do what you prefer.
5. You're not really looking for more 3 damage removal and kicked shattering spree also dodges chalice and is necessary for the 2 for 1s in other matchups. I would also consider going up to 2 if you are having trouble with those decks.
Final points: Generally, I like echoing truth for the kind of game I'm trying to play, namely bounce something back EOT and then counter it on the way down somehow. Patience is very important with the deck and bouncing, then countering on the way back is a huge tempo game, and rewards patience. It's better to be conservative and hold up counters than tap out (unless you have shoal of course).
1. I may test out a Clique somewhere in the 75. Another thought that I had was Nimble Obstructionist, since I have an unnatural love for Stifle effects. Probably not good enough, but last time I was at my local FNM, the lists were at least a little loose and you could afford to try things.
2. The Vapor Snag plan is indeed all-in on tempo, and I guess this being my first go-round with an archetype like this leaves me skeptical. Will try it out. I've got an Electrolyze maindecked because I think there will be some amount of Humans and Elves at my local, but I'll pack Snags somewhere in the 75.
3. Fair play on Blood Moon. I've got some sweet old ones from The Dark coming, and am maybe a little too excited to screw my opponents with them. I also think about how Vintage Delver lists tend to run a maindeck Null Rod, and have seen how backbreaking that can be against huge swaths of that metagame, but obviously that's totally different.
4. My hesitation on Cage is that it shuts off your own Snapcasters, but I can see your point. The splash damage on Company seems good, too.
5. I buylisted my Shattering Sprees when they went through the roof, so I'll probably play Abrades until Spree gets a reprint. But duly noted. Historically, the place I'm playing isn't swarming with Affinity.
Thanks for all the pointers and stuff. Really looking forward to sleeving this up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
It's really fun. Chart a course is bonkers and young peezy is just so strong.
1. I would test Nimble Obs before Clique, honestly, good catch. It's (infinitely) easier to cast off blood moon and I don't think you actually need clique's ability. I might test this over 1 Melody.
2. I'm not gonna argue electrolyze cause it can be a 3 for 1 and is just a house generally, but I value cheap cards a lot and vapor snag is REALLY good. T2 deploy a threat, bounce yours wins games.
3. Like you say, it's mostly a metagame thing, where literally 98% of decks play some amount of moxen. Just leave it in the board. You'll be doing plenty of screwing, trust me. And god does it feel good slamming that game 2 when you are up a game and they have that look on their face like "Welp, I don't have anything to deal with that..."
4. I would shave a snappy when you board it in and not bat an eyelash. I even do this against other snapcaster decks because asymmetric knowledge is a real thing. Think about it this way, snappy is much better as a 2/1 chip shotter than in any other deck and is actually rewarded by chart a course.
5. Fair. Abrade is fine anyway, but just for fun, take note of how much better it would be if it was a spree instead when you use it.
BTW, echoing truth is my pseudo-sweeper, but if you actually need a real one for like elves (which I'm admittedly not boarding for), I would go with blazing volley.
Picked up the deck for the first time, won a few 2 mans then went 4-1 in a friendly league, beating UW control, affinity, RG ponza, and GDS, and losing to Lantern.
The wins were pretty convincing - any attrition based match ups didn't even feel close, the combination of YP, Chart, and Shoal felt sick. You get to come out of the gates swinging, counter their removal spell for no mana, then refill with plenty of little dudes ready to turn on your Charts. Late game, Snap-Chart is a killer CA engine.
The only loss - Lantern - felt horrible, I just could not get out of the gates quickly enough, even with a Swiftspear triple Bolt opener, I feel like splashing Ancient Grudge would be the best option there. Do you guys think it's worth it? And at that point do we run Goyf? Or am I just lacking the Fetchlands to get around the Lantern Lock?
I know the mana base is terrible, I just haven't bought the fetches online yet...
Sick report. I'm telling you digging and getting rewarded with a shoal feels so good. And that peezy interaction you describe literally makes me feel like i'm playing legacy
Lantern seems like a tough matchup generally, but this is a case where I think I want to call out your smashes, because they probably would have been better as shattering spree to get a 2 for 1 or fight through welding jar. For that matchup specifically, it feels like 3 damage is not as relevant as spree's versatility.
As for green, I have my own strong reasons for staying U/R, but I'm not one to stifle brewing and testing, and goyf and grudge are definitely the best (unless I'm forgetting something, maybe lifegain for burn) to go green. The main reasons to stay UR for me being:
1) all the reasons why treasure cruise's best home was in U/R
2) each of the four creatures already serves very specific purposes and adding more is bad for delver
3) a streamlined mana base makes blood moon reliably castable with double blue, which, while not technically needed, is actually needed when you haven't been able to fully screw the opponent. Having 2 to snap cantrip, cast melody, etc. buries an opponent even if they do have a basic out.
4) I wouldn't know how to build it =P
Cool list, too, btw, with the saucy deprive. I think there are definitely a handful of slots you can mess around with, but the core of the 4 creatures, 2 cantrips, bolt, shoal, chart, snag/other removal, counters has some serious potential
Sick report. I'm telling you digging and getting rewarded with a shoal feels so good. And that peezy interaction you describe literally makes me feel like i'm playing legacy
Lantern seems like a tough matchup generally, but this is a case where I think I want to call out your smashes, because they probably would have been better as shattering spree to get a 2 for 1 or fight through welding jar. For that matchup specifically, it feels like 3 damage is not as relevant as spree's versatility.
As for green, I have my own strong reasons for staying U/R, but I'm not one to stifle brewing and testing, and goyf and grudge are definitely the best (unless I'm forgetting something, maybe lifegain for burn) to go green. The main reasons to stay UR for me being:
1) all the reasons why treasure cruise's best home was in U/R
2) each of the four creatures already serves very specific purposes and adding more is bad for delver
3) a streamlined mana base makes blood moon reliably castable with double blue, which, while not technically needed, is actually needed when you haven't been able to fully screw the opponent. Having 2 to snap cantrip, cast melody, etc. buries an opponent even if they do have a basic out.
4) I wouldn't know how to build it =P
Cool list, too, btw, with the saucy deprive. I think there are definitely a handful of slots you can mess around with, but the core of the 4 creatures, 2 cantrips, bolt, shoal, chart, snag/other removal, counters has some serious potential
Edit: BTW, I'm curious how the Anger felt?
Thanks, it was a blast to play. I did consider Shattering Spree, but I was leaning towards being aggressive and thought the extra damage from Smash might be relevant. It's pretty obvious now that the CA is more important in most matches in which we want our artifact hate. For lantern in particular, Grudge seems the best because milling doesn't stop it. I think I'm going to upgrade to fetches and run a single breeding pool for Grudge, as I've sometimes seen others do. I don't think we lose much stability in the mana base by doing so, and a single green opens many sideboard options up.
Deprive was great every time. Having an actual hard counter was very relevant at times, and the deck is so land light that you don't feel set back by bouncing one past turn 3-4 ish. Getting a land to loot with Chart when you're out of threats is also nice. I almost want another copy in the main deck, but I'm hesitatant because I think having two in hand any time would be clunky. Pretty happy with the counter sweet in general.
I didn't get much chance to try Anger of the Gods, but it was fine against Affinity. I chose it for Dredge because it exiles everything besides Troll, but it's also good for any deck that swarms or plays a lot of small creatures. So Affinity, CoCo, Elves, Burn, not sure about Merfolk, but it seems like it would be ok if you can keep them off their lords.
I'm curious about Entrancing Melody. When do you bring that in? Is it just Death's Shadow and Jund?
Edit: It was actually a reddit Dredge player that recommended Anger. Said it was a beating when they go off and you just exile everything. I could see Ravenous Trap in it's place for that matchup, as maybe it's important to get threats down early and not blow them up too. However, Anger is considerably less narrow. I think if we start with Cage, we attempt to race, with Anger, we're on the control plan, so we wait to deploy a threat until we have a counter for Conflagrate.
Boog, I notice you're only running 17 lands. Does that feel light ever?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I actually run 18 in my list, the person that responded to me ran 17. I've always been a bit skeptical of 17, but land counts generally always depend on the event you are going to play. If you are going to a GP, you need the consistency of 18 lands, but if you are just going to play a few rounds at fnm, variability could make 17 not matter for those games.
Sick report. I'm telling you digging and getting rewarded with a shoal feels so good. And that peezy interaction you describe literally makes me feel like i'm playing legacy
Lantern seems like a tough matchup generally, but this is a case where I think I want to call out your smashes, because they probably would have been better as shattering spree to get a 2 for 1 or fight through welding jar. For that matchup specifically, it feels like 3 damage is not as relevant as spree's versatility.
As for green, I have my own strong reasons for staying U/R, but I'm not one to stifle brewing and testing, and goyf and grudge are definitely the best (unless I'm forgetting something, maybe lifegain for burn) to go green. The main reasons to stay UR for me being:
1) all the reasons why treasure cruise's best home was in U/R
2) each of the four creatures already serves very specific purposes and adding more is bad for delver
3) a streamlined mana base makes blood moon reliably castable with double blue, which, while not technically needed, is actually needed when you haven't been able to fully screw the opponent. Having 2 to snap cantrip, cast melody, etc. buries an opponent even if they do have a basic out.
4) I wouldn't know how to build it =P
Cool list, too, btw, with the saucy deprive. I think there are definitely a handful of slots you can mess around with, but the core of the 4 creatures, 2 cantrips, bolt, shoal, chart, snag/other removal, counters has some serious potential
Edit: BTW, I'm curious how the Anger felt?
Thanks, it was a blast to play. I did consider Shattering Spree, but I was leaning towards being aggressive and thought the extra damage from Smash might be relevant. It's pretty obvious now that the CA is more important in most matches in which we want our artifact hate. For lantern in particular, Grudge seems the best because milling doesn't stop it. I think I'm going to upgrade to fetches and run a single breeding pool for Grudge, as I've sometimes seen others do. I don't think we lose much stability in the mana base by doing so, and a single green opens many sideboard options up.
Deprive was great every time. Having an actual hard counter was very relevant at times, and the deck is so land light that you don't feel set back by bouncing one past turn 3-4 ish. Getting a land to loot with Chart when you're out of threats is also nice. I almost want another copy in the main deck, but I'm hesitatant because I think having two in hand any time would be clunky. Pretty happy with the counter sweet in general.
I didn't get much chance to try Anger of the Gods, but it was fine against Affinity. I chose it for Dredge because it exiles everything besides Troll, but it's also good for any deck that swarms or plays a lot of small creatures. So Affinity, CoCo, Elves, Burn, not sure about Merfolk, but it seems like it would be ok if you can keep them off their lords.
I'm curious about Entrancing Melody. When do you bring that in? Is it just Death's Shadow and Jund?
Edit: It was actually a reddit Dredge player that recommended Anger. Said it was a beating when they go off and you just exile everything. I could see Ravenous Trap in it's place for that matchup, as maybe it's important to get threats down early and not blow them up too. However, Anger is considerably less narrow. I think if we start with Cage, we attempt to race, with Anger, we're on the control plan, so we wait to deploy a threat until we have a counter for Conflagrate.
ah yes, the ol' "deprive is so good every time I cast it, so I want to run more, but it's terrible in multiples". I've run into it so many times in the past. I agree with keeping it at 1 and just loving it when you draw it.
As for Anger, it's what I thought. I play online a lot, so I like echoing truth for it's versaitliy, but like I said above, if you think you need a real sweeper for you metagame, Anger is indeed the best against dredge.
So to preface, I could easily see shaving melody to 1, I just want to get reps in with it to see how it plays against different decks. Sure, it's there for shadow, but I've found it to be a beating against any other decks with 1 or 2 drops they really want to keep. It can grab a huge champoin of the parish, I've stolen an arbor elf that put Ponza so far back they just scooped, goyf is good because it's usually in decks that go longer so you can get to 4 mana. It's mostly just a sweet, potentially game ending effect that has implications in a shadow metagame. I definitely wouldn't run it if I knew I wasn't going to see any Shadow decks, it's just rampant online.
I have very limited experience with the deck in it's current form, so I can't give a definitive answer, but I haven't had any problems so far. We have a ton of cantrips, and a very low curve, so it might be ok.
Then again, it's possibly just correct to go to 18 and shave a Snag or something. I need to do the math properly. Trial and error is just not an effective way of gauging the correct land count, it leads to all sorts of judgement problems.
EDIT: On another note, I've got Fetches, Breeding pool and Grudges now. Gonna take it through a couple of competitive leagues tonight and report back.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
He was playing at least 1 Remand and 1 Mana Leak main deck. Interesting inclusions were at least 1 Bedlam Reveler and 1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
That matchup is literally just flipping a turn 1 delver and praying.
Yeah I noticed that when I watched the replay. I was watching without sound the first time.
I've been thinking about getting back into FNM-level competitive Magic, and since Pauper isn't happening at my place anytime soon and I have no interest in Standard, Modern is it. I used to play Loam Pox and 8 Rack, neither of which appeal to me at all these days. I'm looking at cards I can pull together pretty easily, and UR Delver looks like a good fit. The meta around here seems to be infested with Tron-based decks, and I've always wanted to play with Blood Moon anyway. Plus Chart a Course and Opt make blue attacking decks more enticing than they used to be.
In short: is it worth picking up a few pieces and playing this deck? It seems fun and like a fun, semi unique deck to play in Modern these days.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/884619#paper
Thank you for posting it, I've been looking for it for days. It does seem legit. He ended up #38 of nearly 1000 contestants.
I'm going to try it out as well. I will make 2 changes to the SB:
-2 smash to smithereens
+2 abrade
-1 blood moon
+1 batterskull (this change is for my meta)
I'll see how this goes and work from there.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678Bedlam Reveler - This seems really bad with 9 counter spells, 4 of which replace thrmselves. This could honestly just be a single copy of Ancestral Visions.
Nimble Obstructionist - I don't understand why this card over Clique. Sure, sometimes you get to counter a expeition map activation or stone rain someone but Clique answers cards before your opp can play them AND you can always target yourself.
4 Remand - I have never really liked Remand in Delver decks and lke it even less with thr printing of Fatal Push. Twin could maximize on Remands because it could cantrip into a win. Delver is aggrressive, but games still take some turns to finish.
I want to preface by saying that I have never been a Disrupting Shoal fan. I have always tried it in my lists and always come to the same conclusion: I'd rather have a split of spell snare/spell pierce/mana leak (or whatever) because the card disadvantage was so backbreaking. It works in legacy because you need it (let's be honest, you're never casting shoal on t1 to a literal game winning play) and because of daze tbh.
But Chart a Course changes everything. Now saving your dork when they push it gets you a draw 2 as a reward. Conversely, tapping out for chart a course on t2 can draw you into shoaling their t2 play. Not to mention young peezy into shoal is as great as it is in legacy...Honestly, I don't want to be too aggressive, but shoal/chart feels a lot like fow/brainstorm in many subtle ways. In fact, the deck plays a lot like a legacy deck in that you have to be patient. It's not an aggro list; it's classic tempo.
4 monastery swiftspear
4 young pyromancer
4 snapcaster mage
4 lightning bolt
4 serum visions
4 opt
4 chart a course
4 remand
4 disrupting shoal
2 vapor snag
4 scalding tarn
2 misty rainforest
3 steam vents
4 island
1 mountain
2 dispel
2 ceremonious rejection
2 disdainful stroke
2 echoing truth
2 entrancing melody
2 blood moon
1 shattering spree
1 grafdigger's cage
1 pithing needle
The main deck is just raw power (and disrupting shoal, which, I swear is good in this deck, I promise) (oh and remand, but c'mon you need that card). The spread of 1 and 2 mana spells also translates to a nice selection in game for shoal. As for remand, the tempo has won me more than 1 game (many in fact), and is one of the few ways you can beat tron/scapeshift/etc. g1. Where remand lacks in power, it more than makes up for in versatility, also. This is also, incidentally enough, why shoal has been so outstanding.
I'm not going to preach to the choir at this point, but chart a course is bonkers and I don't think there is any going back. Is it cruise? of course not, but this card is truth, no doubt about it.
I feel like I have to highlight once more just how much I used to hate disrupting shoal, which I feel gives my decision more credibility somehow...in reality, I actually keep winning, instead of losing like I used to. And I feel better/more in control/confident than when I had whatever other counters were there before, particularly knowing that I will be able to make up the card disadvantage if I need to with a chart a course later.
I want to touch on the swiftspear/guide debate because it has been on my mind a lot. There are many games where guide would probably have done more damage, but at the same time, I can't bring myself to cut swiftspear. That you can ride her into the late game and make her a 3/4 or 4/5 is actually incredibly relevant, where goblin guide is just an embarrassment.
Also, if you aren't playing snapcaster, I'm sorry, but you have to be doing it wrong. I play a similar list in legacy, and there is no way that playing something like stormchaser mage has ever been better than snapcaster. Why would you play such trash in a format that has so much power? Anyway, /rant sorry. But the argument stands, bolt snap bolt is better than any "aggressive" creature you can possibly name.
As for the board, I have fully embraced the tempo strategy. Having a diverse counter-suite is the way to go and further pushes you into the tempo/having patience gameplay. Blood moon is a house, and also wins what may otherwise be hard matchups. Spree kills chalice and is cheap, and can be a 3 or even 4 for 1 in some matchups. Cage cause, again, of it's versatility and cheap cost. Needle as a cheap, versatile (suprise) answer to planeswalkers and other nonsense. Entrancing melody is kinda the flavor of the month, but it has been a blow out in various games, including GDS.
I want to give a special mention to echoing truth, as it is really the glue that holds everything together. As you can tell, I value versatility highly in modern and echoing truth is everything from a token sweeper to an enchantment remover. I have probably won as many games because of echoing truth than any other sideboard card. It's not even like a "gotcha" card (even though it can give you some free wins from opponents not playing around it), it's just a great answer to a lot of things that give us trouble. I regularly bring in 1 as a hedge in most matchups.
A few questions:
1. Any thought to a slightly larger creature as a one-of somewhere in the 75? I know some of the similar RUG decks are playing a Huntmaster or two, but for us it'd probably be more like a Clique.
2. Are the Vapor Snags and Disdainful Strokes enough for the delve creatures? Do you bring in Echoing Truth for those, too?
3. Any thought to a main deck Blood Moon?
4. Seems a little light on grave hate in the side. I know lots of pros recommend 4 pieces. Cage seems good and versatile, as you say, but maybe a Relic of Progenitus or even a Surgical Extraction would be a good addition in certain metas?
5. Any thought to Abrade in the side? Seems versatile and dodges Chalice.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
1. I have very much thought about it. It would probably be over an enchanting melody. Haven't thought much about what, though, so feel free to test. Generally, Chart a Course does incredible things, so the need for extra threats is not as high as in other delver decks.
2. I would say overall, yes. And yes, I do bring in Truth in most delve matchups because those are also fair matchups, where I usually cut Shoal completely. Non-trample creatures generally are not a problem if you have an active Pyromancer as well. I usually try to maneuver it so I have that going and just fly over with delver (which probably makes clique a great choice for #1). Tempoing with remand is great too (usually leave in 2) cause they will normally take another turn to restock the yard. Also, I will usually board out 2 swiftspear (or more on the draw).
3. Honestly, it is so good in the board, and the main is so focused, that I think it's right to keep it there. I'm sure there are metagames where it would be called for, but it's a great way to beat removal in games 2 and 3, so tipping them off isn't worth it.
4. GY hate is definitely light, but it's mostly because the only real GY deck I'm worried about is Dredge, and echoing truth is actually great against their nut draw, so probably would shave 1 there if you wanted to add more gy hate. I would stick with cage, though, for it's versatility and because it's the cleanest and most backbreaking at 1. That you don't have to invest anything else into it is actually a really big deal. Surgical maybe, but I'm not the biggest fan of it in modern rn. GY hate in modern is kind of whatever you want it to be though, so do what you prefer.
5. You're not really looking for more 3 damage removal and kicked shattering spree also dodges chalice and is necessary for the 2 for 1s in other matchups. I would also consider going up to 2 if you are having trouble with those decks.
Final points: Generally, I like echoing truth for the kind of game I'm trying to play, namely bounce something back EOT and then counter it on the way down somehow. Patience is very important with the deck and bouncing, then countering on the way back is a huge tempo game, and rewards patience. It's better to be conservative and hold up counters than tap out (unless you have shoal of course).
Don't forget you can hard cast Shoal. Good luck!
1. I may test out a Clique somewhere in the 75. Another thought that I had was Nimble Obstructionist, since I have an unnatural love for Stifle effects. Probably not good enough, but last time I was at my local FNM, the lists were at least a little loose and you could afford to try things.
2. The Vapor Snag plan is indeed all-in on tempo, and I guess this being my first go-round with an archetype like this leaves me skeptical. Will try it out. I've got an Electrolyze maindecked because I think there will be some amount of Humans and Elves at my local, but I'll pack Snags somewhere in the 75.
3. Fair play on Blood Moon. I've got some sweet old ones from The Dark coming, and am maybe a little too excited to screw my opponents with them. I also think about how Vintage Delver lists tend to run a maindeck Null Rod, and have seen how backbreaking that can be against huge swaths of that metagame, but obviously that's totally different.
4. My hesitation on Cage is that it shuts off your own Snapcasters, but I can see your point. The splash damage on Company seems good, too.
5. I buylisted my Shattering Sprees when they went through the roof, so I'll probably play Abrades until Spree gets a reprint. But duly noted. Historically, the place I'm playing isn't swarming with Affinity.
Thanks for all the pointers and stuff. Really looking forward to sleeving this up.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
1. I would test Nimble Obs before Clique, honestly, good catch. It's (infinitely) easier to cast off blood moon and I don't think you actually need clique's ability. I might test this over 1 Melody.
2. I'm not gonna argue electrolyze cause it can be a 3 for 1 and is just a house generally, but I value cheap cards a lot and vapor snag is REALLY good. T2 deploy a threat, bounce yours wins games.
3. Like you say, it's mostly a metagame thing, where literally 98% of decks play some amount of moxen. Just leave it in the board. You'll be doing plenty of screwing, trust me. And god does it feel good slamming that game 2 when you are up a game and they have that look on their face like "Welp, I don't have anything to deal with that..."
4. I would shave a snappy when you board it in and not bat an eyelash. I even do this against other snapcaster decks because asymmetric knowledge is a real thing. Think about it this way, snappy is much better as a 2/1 chip shotter than in any other deck and is actually rewarded by chart a course.
5. Fair. Abrade is fine anyway, but just for fun, take note of how much better it would be if it was a spree instead when you use it.
BTW, echoing truth is my pseudo-sweeper, but if you actually need a real one for like elves (which I'm admittedly not boarding for), I would go with blazing volley.
The wins were pretty convincing - any attrition based match ups didn't even feel close, the combination of YP, Chart, and Shoal felt sick. You get to come out of the gates swinging, counter their removal spell for no mana, then refill with plenty of little dudes ready to turn on your Charts. Late game, Snap-Chart is a killer CA engine.
The only loss - Lantern - felt horrible, I just could not get out of the gates quickly enough, even with a Swiftspear triple Bolt opener, I feel like splashing Ancient Grudge would be the best option there. Do you guys think it's worth it? And at that point do we run Goyf? Or am I just lacking the Fetchlands to get around the Lantern Lock?
I know the mana base is terrible, I just haven't bought the fetches online yet...
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Chart a Course
4 Opt
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
1 Deprive
3 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Spirebluff Canal
6 Island
2 Mountain
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Dispel
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Echoing Truth
2 Blood Moon
2 Anger of the Gods
Lantern seems like a tough matchup generally, but this is a case where I think I want to call out your smashes, because they probably would have been better as shattering spree to get a 2 for 1 or fight through welding jar. For that matchup specifically, it feels like 3 damage is not as relevant as spree's versatility.
As for green, I have my own strong reasons for staying U/R, but I'm not one to stifle brewing and testing, and goyf and grudge are definitely the best (unless I'm forgetting something, maybe lifegain for burn) to go green. The main reasons to stay UR for me being:
1) all the reasons why treasure cruise's best home was in U/R
2) each of the four creatures already serves very specific purposes and adding more is bad for delver
3) a streamlined mana base makes blood moon reliably castable with double blue, which, while not technically needed, is actually needed when you haven't been able to fully screw the opponent. Having 2 to snap cantrip, cast melody, etc. buries an opponent even if they do have a basic out.
4) I wouldn't know how to build it =P
Cool list, too, btw, with the saucy deprive. I think there are definitely a handful of slots you can mess around with, but the core of the 4 creatures, 2 cantrips, bolt, shoal, chart, snag/other removal, counters has some serious potential
Edit: BTW, I'm curious how the Anger felt?
Thanks, it was a blast to play. I did consider Shattering Spree, but I was leaning towards being aggressive and thought the extra damage from Smash might be relevant. It's pretty obvious now that the CA is more important in most matches in which we want our artifact hate. For lantern in particular, Grudge seems the best because milling doesn't stop it. I think I'm going to upgrade to fetches and run a single breeding pool for Grudge, as I've sometimes seen others do. I don't think we lose much stability in the mana base by doing so, and a single green opens many sideboard options up.
Deprive was great every time. Having an actual hard counter was very relevant at times, and the deck is so land light that you don't feel set back by bouncing one past turn 3-4 ish. Getting a land to loot with Chart when you're out of threats is also nice. I almost want another copy in the main deck, but I'm hesitatant because I think having two in hand any time would be clunky. Pretty happy with the counter sweet in general.
I didn't get much chance to try Anger of the Gods, but it was fine against Affinity. I chose it for Dredge because it exiles everything besides Troll, but it's also good for any deck that swarms or plays a lot of small creatures. So Affinity, CoCo, Elves, Burn, not sure about Merfolk, but it seems like it would be ok if you can keep them off their lords.
I'm curious about Entrancing Melody. When do you bring that in? Is it just Death's Shadow and Jund?
Edit: It was actually a reddit Dredge player that recommended Anger. Said it was a beating when they go off and you just exile everything. I could see Ravenous Trap in it's place for that matchup, as maybe it's important to get threats down early and not blow them up too. However, Anger is considerably less narrow. I think if we start with Cage, we attempt to race, with Anger, we're on the control plan, so we wait to deploy a threat until we have a counter for Conflagrate.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
ah yes, the ol' "deprive is so good every time I cast it, so I want to run more, but it's terrible in multiples". I've run into it so many times in the past. I agree with keeping it at 1 and just loving it when you draw it.
As for Anger, it's what I thought. I play online a lot, so I like echoing truth for it's versaitliy, but like I said above, if you think you need a real sweeper for you metagame, Anger is indeed the best against dredge.
So to preface, I could easily see shaving melody to 1, I just want to get reps in with it to see how it plays against different decks. Sure, it's there for shadow, but I've found it to be a beating against any other decks with 1 or 2 drops they really want to keep. It can grab a huge champoin of the parish, I've stolen an arbor elf that put Ponza so far back they just scooped, goyf is good because it's usually in decks that go longer so you can get to 4 mana. It's mostly just a sweet, potentially game ending effect that has implications in a shadow metagame. I definitely wouldn't run it if I knew I wasn't going to see any Shadow decks, it's just rampant online.
Then again, it's possibly just correct to go to 18 and shave a Snag or something. I need to do the math properly. Trial and error is just not an effective way of gauging the correct land count, it leads to all sorts of judgement problems.
EDIT: On another note, I've got Fetches, Breeding pool and Grudges now. Gonna take it through a couple of competitive leagues tonight and report back.