Did someone already tried blossoming defense? how did it go?
Not legal until Friday.
That said, I got my hands on 3 in the pre release, and I plan on playing every single one of them. As of right now, I'm in zero ****s given mode wrt people being down on it; I think it's amazing and worth finding slots for.
This is my take --- my meta has a lot of removal heavy or creature heavy decks --- Thinking about moving to 4 Apostle's Blessing as it can double at granting unblock-ability.
I regularly 2-2 FNM and sometimes 3-1 --- my difficulty is getting overzealous and moving in too fast for the kill.
[deck]Land (19)
Edit: If you wanted to try a third Blossoming Defence, what you cut from the MB? I literally cant find anything. An apostlle's blessing maybe? But thats stressed. The card is insane.
Tom Ross was on record saying he's cutting a Vines for one so he can get to 4 of them main. And everyone said I was crazy to suggest that...
[deck]Land (19)
Edit: If you wanted to try a third Blossoming Defence, what you cut from the MB? I literally cant find anything. An apostlle's blessing maybe? But thats stressed. The card is insane.
Tom Ross was on record saying he's cutting a Vines for one so he can get to 4 of them main. And everyone said I was crazy to suggest that...
"The moment Blossoming Defense was revealed, I got a rush of messages asking about its application in Modern Infect. Not to stray away from the established truth that the world has found optimal over the course of thousands of tournaments and tens of thousands of games, my initial inclination is that I wanted a couple, but nothing too fancy just yet.
Since then I've come around to thinking that the power level of Blossoming Defense is really high. So high that I'm willing to shave on a copy of Vines of Vastwood to complete a full set of them. After all, Splinter Twin is no longer a thing reducing the applications of Vines of Vastwood. Of course, if Infect becomes a highly played deck, I suggest switching the following numbers around to go back up to four Vines of Vastwood."
[deck]Land (19)
Edit: If you wanted to try a third Blossoming Defence, what you cut from the MB? I literally cant find anything. An apostlle's blessing maybe? But thats stressed. The card is insane.
Tom Ross was on record saying he's cutting a Vines for one so he can get to 4 of them main. And everyone said I was crazy to suggest that...
"The moment Blossoming Defense was revealed, I got a rush of messages asking about its application in Modern Infect. Not to stray away from the established truth that the world has found optimal over the course of thousands of tournaments and tens of thousands of games, my initial inclination is that I wanted a couple, but nothing too fancy just yet.
Since then I've come around to thinking that the power level of Blossoming Defense is really high. So high that I'm willing to shave on a copy of Vines of Vastwood to complete a full set of them. After all, Splinter Twin is no longer a thing reducing the applications of Vines of Vastwood. Of course, if Infect becomes a highly played deck, I suggest switching the following numbers around to go back up to four Vines of Vastwood."
What did he cut for a playset of blossoming I wonder except for one Vines?
[deck]Land (19)
Edit: If you wanted to try a third Blossoming Defence, what you cut from the MB? I literally cant find anything. An apostlle's blessing maybe? But thats stressed. The card is insane.
Tom Ross was on record saying he's cutting a Vines for one so he can get to 4 of them main. And everyone said I was crazy to suggest that...
"The moment Blossoming Defense was revealed, I got a rush of messages asking about its application in Modern Infect. Not to stray away from the established truth that the world has found optimal over the course of thousands of tournaments and tens of thousands of games, my initial inclination is that I wanted a couple, but nothing too fancy just yet.
Since then I've come around to thinking that the power level of Blossoming Defense is really high. So high that I'm willing to shave on a copy of Vines of Vastwood to complete a full set of them. After all, Splinter Twin is no longer a thing reducing the applications of Vines of Vastwood. Of course, if Infect becomes a highly played deck, I suggest switching the following numbers around to go back up to four Vines of Vastwood."
What did he cut for a playset of blossoming I wonder except for one Vines?
1 fetch, 1 twisted, 1 blessing, 1 vines. He has 12 maindeck creatures (no Corrupter) and actually has 2 Distortion Strike in the main. The rest is as expected.
I like the 2 Strike main plan and usually run 2 Strike and 2-3 Blessing. Avoiding enemies is much easier than trying to power thru them. Also I'm pondering Temur for TBR and I like the red giant growth that can trample the Nexus. Just a fun experiment
1 fetch, 1 twisted, 1 blessing, 1 vines. He has 12 maindeck creatures (no Corrupter) and actually has 2 Distortion Strike in the main. The rest is as expected.
So he is at 19 lands? (4 Inkmoth, 2 Pendelhaven, 2 Pool, 2 Forest, 8 Fetch, 1 Arbor)
It would be great if you could just post his list as I am curious.
I don't want to screencap it because it's premium, and I'm not gonna type it up. It's basically the 12 creatures, 19 lands with no arbor, and the typical list with the modifications I mentioned above.
I like Tom's list a lot. I think for those of us with 8 fetches instead of 9-10, slide down to 3 BI and add one of the Dispel to the main. Add an extra Blessing to the board. Another Blessing in the main is also completely doable and effectively a colorless Dispel. Also I would run a single Botanical Sanctum to replace the fetch. One of these days I will get some Zendikar fetches heh
The 3 total Twisted Image and 2 main deck Distortion Strike is very surprising to me. Equally surprised by the 2 Dispel in the board since it seems like 90% of the time Defense/Vines says the same thing Dispel will and Pierce is relevant in more matchups.
Also of note: no Finks in the board. Maybe Dispel is for the Burn matchup?
The 3 total Twisted Image and 2 main deck Distortion Strike is very surprising to me. Equally surprised by the 2 Dispel in the board since it seems like 90% of the time Defense/Vines says the same thing Dispel will and Pierce is relevant in more matchups.
Also of note: no Finks in the board. Maybe Dispel is for the Burn matchup?
I'm not really sure Tom's list is much better than theorycrafting right now. I'm almost wanting to cut Grafdigger's from my sideboard entirely, because I find dredge to be an easy matchup and isn't really on gameplan. The only real reason would be to have much of a chance against Abzan Company.
The 3 total Twisted Image and 2 main deck Distortion Strike is very surprising to me. Equally surprised by the 2 Dispel in the board since it seems like 90% of the time Defense/Vines says the same thing Dispel will and Pierce is relevant in more matchups.
Also of note: no Finks in the board. Maybe Dispel is for the Burn matchup?
I'm not really sure Tom's list is much better than theorycrafting right now. I'm almost wanting to cut Grafdigger's from my sideboard entirely, because I find dredge to be an easy matchup and isn't really on gameplan. The only real reason would be to have much of a chance against Abzan Company.
Really? I haven't played Dredge as of this point, but because it's Dredge I just assumed I needed to be ready to push back or I'd be pantsed.
I haven't play a ton of Abzan Company either, but the one match I played was pretty damn tough.
The 3 total Twisted Image and 2 main deck Distortion Strike is very surprising to me. Equally surprised by the 2 Dispel in the board since it seems like 90% of the time Defense/Vines says the same thing Dispel will and Pierce is relevant in more matchups.
Also of note: no Finks in the board. Maybe Dispel is for the Burn matchup?
I haven't read the article but I'd say the logic applied by Tom Ross in his list is that the 4 Blossoming Defense both protect and pump, so he decided to cut an Apostle's Blessing and a Vines since the latter can be hard to play kicked, for example on an inkmoth, so vines often does not count entirely as a pump spell but much rather protection. Now since he lost an apostle's blessing for evasion he had to add a second distortion strike, which currently is better evasion (and pumps) since both Bant Edrazi and Dredge are prevalent in the meta. It also lets you set up kills by "cheating" on mana next turn which is great.
Blossoming Defence contributes to a quicker Become Immense kill in comparison to Vines, and it protects against Ghost Quarter as well, whilst Blessing didn't, I think that is a big plus for Blossoming Defence giving us a total of 7 outs to QC on Inkmoth.
About the 2 Dispel I guess I can see the benefit of it if your meta has alot of Valakut or the mirror for example, where its better than Spell Pierce, and for Bant Eldrazi I'd also prefer it since it hard counters path/blessed alliance, I wouldn't usually bring in a second Dispel against them though, swapping the MD Spell Pierce for the singleton Dispel is how I usually SB'ded, along the usual Dismember/Twisted Image package. I personally prefer a 1-of Dispel and rather have the 3 flexible Spell Pierce 1 Dispel split than the 2/2.
I also dislike 2 Grafdigger's Cage in the SB, most people running 2 in the SB copied Owen Turtenwald's Worlds list, but tend to forget that list was tweaked for a very specific meta, I reckon he was expecting some good amount of Dredge and Company/Chord to show up where the Cage obviously shines. I myself run 1 or none, I don't think it's necessary vs Dredge and prefer a second Distortion Strike while against for example Nahiri decks I prefer more protection and vs Abzan CoCo and the like I prefer Dismember/Twisted Image and Counters, the latter which can also be used to force dmg through a Path for example. The creature tutor matchups tend to get worse the longer they go on, since they will get to a point where they outgrind you with Witness for removal or for a dead Spellskite/Melira or Chord, so I prefer to be proactive and not rely on a slammed Cage.
Twisted Image is just one hell of a card and I'd run a 4th copy if I'd find a place to slot it in, it's not surprising to me seeing Tom add a second in the SB after taking one out of the main.
I like his MD quite a bit, maybe I'd go down to 3 Blossoming Defence, although I haven't tested the card yet. I would change the SB though, drop 1 or both Grafdigger's, 1 Dispel, 1 Nature's Claim, 1 Spellskite, to free the 3 slots for the Kitchen Finks/Wild Defiance/other threat package and add the third Spell Pierce. Having 2 or 3 Nature's Claim has been a dilemma for me recently, it's a great versatile SB card, I haven't been facing enough tron/affinity/lantern recently to warrant the third one though.
I'm picking up the deck again after an extensive lay off (had a child so priorities and opportunities had to change unfortunately.
Can someone help out with a rough sideboard guide for the major archetypes to get me back up to speed with everything?
On page 140 there is a good guide that can help you.
Feeling that there would be a lot of decks with Red and/or White, yesterday played the BG infect. Did 4-0.
2-0 vs Boros Burn
2-1 vs Affinity
2-0 vs Junk
2-1 vs UR
Let see what happen tomorrow if I play the Simic or Golgari infect. Only to say that I have more fun with the BG infect than UG.
I prefer the Vines of Vastwoods in one aspect that can be used the Blossoming Defense, it can be used on opponent creatures of Affinity, Death's Shadow, Bogles...
I agree, the wording in Vines makes it unique, and especially vs the mirror/affinity/death's shadow its extremely versatile working as a counter/pump. Tom justified this by saying if Infect is really popular he'd go up to 4 again and since twin doesn't exist anymore it lost a very solid application there. It probably is overall the better card, but a slower one. Keep in mind its a first draft with Blossoming Defence, there ought to be changes in the future.
I was wondering if do we keep a 7 card hand with Viridian Corrupter as our only creature with Infect ? Seems a bit too slow. Thanks.
In the blind, it depends on the rest of the cards in your hand. I'd lean towards no, and have taken it out of my maindeck at this point anyway. Games 2 and 3 entirely depends on the deck you are playing against. If you need to be fast, it's not going to be the creature you want to draw.
I was wondering if do we keep a 7 card hand with Viridian Corrupter as our only creature with Infect ? Seems a bit too slow. Thanks.
In the blind, it depends on the rest of the cards in your hand. I'd lean towards no, and have taken it out of my maindeck at this point anyway. Games 2 and 3 entirely depends on the deck you are playing against. If you need to be fast, it's not going to be the creature you want to draw.
I'd say no too, unless you're playing vs affinity and have a noble and a sideboard card in your opening you don't want to rely on a 3 CMC creature that has no evasion
Aaaaaaand this is why i dont like this card in the Mainboard at all.
Viridian Corrrupter and Spellskite both belong in the sideboard. Think it's real bad pay for them and get no usage out of them first game. Rather have another pump or protection I know is always good.
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Not legal until Friday.
That said, I got my hands on 3 in the pre release, and I plan on playing every single one of them. As of right now, I'm in zero ****s given mode wrt people being down on it; I think it's amazing and worth finding slots for.
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Creature (12)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Gitaxian Probe
Instant (26)
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Apostle's Blessing
2 Spell Pierce
1 Dispel
1 Twisted Image
1 Dismember
2 Groundswell
3 Become Immense
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Viridian Corruptor
1 Dispel
1 Distortion Strike
1 Twisted Image
2 Dismember
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Tormund's Crypt
2 Nature's Claim
1 Spellskite
This is my take --- my meta has a lot of removal heavy or creature heavy decks --- Thinking about moving to 4 Apostle's Blessing as it can double at granting unblock-ability.
I regularly 2-2 FNM and sometimes 3-1 --- my difficulty is getting overzealous and moving in too fast for the kill.
Tom Ross was on record saying he's cutting a Vines for one so he can get to 4 of them main. And everyone said I was crazy to suggest that...
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33673_Kaladesh-Modern-Analysis.html
If you don't have premium, the relevant quote is:
"The moment Blossoming Defense was revealed, I got a rush of messages asking about its application in Modern Infect. Not to stray away from the established truth that the world has found optimal over the course of thousands of tournaments and tens of thousands of games, my initial inclination is that I wanted a couple, but nothing too fancy just yet.
Since then I've come around to thinking that the power level of Blossoming Defense is really high. So high that I'm willing to shave on a copy of Vines of Vastwood to complete a full set of them. After all, Splinter Twin is no longer a thing reducing the applications of Vines of Vastwood. Of course, if Infect becomes a highly played deck, I suggest switching the following numbers around to go back up to four Vines of Vastwood."
What did he cut for a playset of blossoming I wonder except for one Vines?
Distortion Strike?
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
So he is at 19 lands? (4 Inkmoth, 2 Pendelhaven, 2 Pool, 2 Forest, 8 Fetch, 1 Arbor)
It would be great if you could just post his list as I am curious.
Also of note: no Finks in the board. Maybe Dispel is for the Burn matchup?
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I'm not really sure Tom's list is much better than theorycrafting right now. I'm almost wanting to cut Grafdigger's from my sideboard entirely, because I find dredge to be an easy matchup and isn't really on gameplan. The only real reason would be to have much of a chance against Abzan Company.
Really? I haven't played Dredge as of this point, but because it's Dredge I just assumed I needed to be ready to push back or I'd be pantsed.
I haven't play a ton of Abzan Company either, but the one match I played was pretty damn tough.
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I haven't read the article but I'd say the logic applied by Tom Ross in his list is that the 4 Blossoming Defense both protect and pump, so he decided to cut an Apostle's Blessing and a Vines since the latter can be hard to play kicked, for example on an inkmoth, so vines often does not count entirely as a pump spell but much rather protection. Now since he lost an apostle's blessing for evasion he had to add a second distortion strike, which currently is better evasion (and pumps) since both Bant Edrazi and Dredge are prevalent in the meta. It also lets you set up kills by "cheating" on mana next turn which is great.
Blossoming Defence contributes to a quicker Become Immense kill in comparison to Vines, and it protects against Ghost Quarter as well, whilst Blessing didn't, I think that is a big plus for Blossoming Defence giving us a total of 7 outs to QC on Inkmoth.
About the 2 Dispel I guess I can see the benefit of it if your meta has alot of Valakut or the mirror for example, where its better than Spell Pierce, and for Bant Eldrazi I'd also prefer it since it hard counters path/blessed alliance, I wouldn't usually bring in a second Dispel against them though, swapping the MD Spell Pierce for the singleton Dispel is how I usually SB'ded, along the usual Dismember/Twisted Image package. I personally prefer a 1-of Dispel and rather have the 3 flexible Spell Pierce 1 Dispel split than the 2/2.
I also dislike 2 Grafdigger's Cage in the SB, most people running 2 in the SB copied Owen Turtenwald's Worlds list, but tend to forget that list was tweaked for a very specific meta, I reckon he was expecting some good amount of Dredge and Company/Chord to show up where the Cage obviously shines. I myself run 1 or none, I don't think it's necessary vs Dredge and prefer a second Distortion Strike while against for example Nahiri decks I prefer more protection and vs Abzan CoCo and the like I prefer Dismember/Twisted Image and Counters, the latter which can also be used to force dmg through a Path for example. The creature tutor matchups tend to get worse the longer they go on, since they will get to a point where they outgrind you with Witness for removal or for a dead Spellskite/Melira or Chord, so I prefer to be proactive and not rely on a slammed Cage.
Twisted Image is just one hell of a card and I'd run a 4th copy if I'd find a place to slot it in, it's not surprising to me seeing Tom add a second in the SB after taking one out of the main.
I like his MD quite a bit, maybe I'd go down to 3 Blossoming Defence, although I haven't tested the card yet. I would change the SB though, drop 1 or both Grafdigger's, 1 Dispel, 1 Nature's Claim, 1 Spellskite, to free the 3 slots for the Kitchen Finks/Wild Defiance/other threat package and add the third Spell Pierce. Having 2 or 3 Nature's Claim has been a dilemma for me recently, it's a great versatile SB card, I haven't been facing enough tron/affinity/lantern recently to warrant the third one though.
Hi Sir, just recently finished building this deck (-Carrion Call, -Spellskite, +2 Surgical Extraction in the SB)= http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12423&d=271459&f=MO
Do you mind teaching how to sideboard a GB Infect deck? Thanks.
I agree, the wording in Vines makes it unique, and especially vs the mirror/affinity/death's shadow its extremely versatile working as a counter/pump. Tom justified this by saying if Infect is really popular he'd go up to 4 again and since twin doesn't exist anymore it lost a very solid application there. It probably is overall the better card, but a slower one. Keep in mind its a first draft with Blossoming Defence, there ought to be changes in the future.
In the blind, it depends on the rest of the cards in your hand. I'd lean towards no, and have taken it out of my maindeck at this point anyway. Games 2 and 3 entirely depends on the deck you are playing against. If you need to be fast, it's not going to be the creature you want to draw.
Viridian Corrrupter and Spellskite both belong in the sideboard. Think it's real bad pay for them and get no usage out of them first game. Rather have another pump or protection I know is always good.