There haven't been many matches I can think of that I could have used Apostle's Blessing - most of the time we can get our creatures big enough (Leatherback Baloth, Avatar of the Resolute... heck you can even get Experiment One to 6/6 if you really run well) that in Modern they're getting chump-blocked by most decks and we're happy with trampling over the top using Rancor or Avatar. The only games where I might have wanted a Blessing were against token decks that can throw out a bunch of blockers, but often enough you can Rancor up something and get damage through that way. I can't see including the Blessing in my 75. There might be an argument for it against Affinity, but it's fairly narrow.
Its difficult to understand the argument that Honored Hierarch secondary ability is irrelevant.
Once he has a counter, he has vigilance, so he can be swinging and also representing the ability to cast spells during or post-combat. I'm always mana starved in the first few turns of a game; having the ability to play a trick and then a creature when you wouldn't otherwise is certainly relevant.
Again, I don't think he's great. I do think he's worthy of consideration.
So I'm thinking about coming back to some sort of stompy deck after a longish hiatus. Why is avatar of the resolute being played as a 4 of in so many decks? It seems like not much more then a slightly better garruk's companion and honestly I imagine that playing scavenging ooze as a 4 of would be much more potent than a 3/2 that sometimes in a perfect world is slightly larger. I'd love to hear some experiences with the card.
Glad to see the thread is still doing well. I have to admit I cheated on the Leatherback and decided to go for D&T for GP Copenhagen. I eyed an opportunity and a huge weakness in the metagame relating to the grave and the way other decks fight unfair decks. Turns out, it paid off with a top 8 for me, which means I'm going to my first Pro Tour! Couldn't have been happier, except perhaps if it was the Leatherback that had taken me there ;-)
If you want to be able to use a trick in combat if you need one, then cast your creatures postcombat. Isn't this the very first thing people learn to do in Magic when they move beyond "how do I cast spells" and "what's a triggered ability"?
Because using mana on a combat trick and then having more mana to play more guys is never relevant. I said he's one-drops 9-12; I not sure why this tone was required.
If you want to be able to use a trick in combat if you need one, then cast your creatures postcombat. Isn't this the very first thing people learn to do in Magic when they move beyond "how do I cast spells" and "what's a triggered ability"?
Because using mana on a combat trick and then having more mana to play more guys is never relevant. I said he's one-drops 9-12; I not sure why this tone was required.
He is a 1/1 for 1. He needs to swing and deal damage to a player to not be terrible. This deck can't afford to swing with a creature with power of 1 or less at anytime of the game to stand a chance.
Dryad Militant will at least make them consider chump blocking with their Delver of Secrets for a 1-to-1 trade. Honored Hierarch needs to tap to add any value above Militant (assuming it landed damage), and sacrificing damage output to tap out to add one extra mana is bad for this deck.
Test it out and show some FNM results. But on the surface he seems good for ramp decks in standard only. I don't see this card being playable in modern.
So I'm thinking about coming back to some sort of stompy deck after a longish hiatus. Why is avatar of the resolute being played as a 4 of in so many decks? It seems like not much more then a slightly better garruk's companion and honestly I imagine that playing scavenging ooze as a 4 of would be much more potent than a 3/2 that sometimes in a perfect world is slightly larger. I'd love to hear some experiences with the card.
Have a quick look back through the last 10 - 15 pages or so of this thread - the topic has been discussed a few times. The short version, though, is Avatar is an absolute house. Strictly better than Garruk's Companion (with Reach) on an empty board, and quite regularly coming into play as 4/3 or 5/4 (Experiment One and Strangleroot Geist providing the +1/+1s). He's an automatic 4-of IMO. The only choice then is whether you prefer to use Garruk's Companion over Kalonian Tusker. Some do and like the trample, but the general consensus is that overall the 3 toughness of Tusker is very relevant (dodges Electrolyze and other 2 damage spells, and doesn't trade with Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Pestermite etc) and is enough better than the trample of the Companion for it to get the nod.
That said, a lot of this deck is feel and how you enjoy playing it - test out both and see which you prefer!
Glad to see the thread is still doing well. I have to admit I cheated on the Leatherback and decided to go for D&T for GP Copenhagen. I eyed an opportunity and a huge weakness in the metagame relating to the grave and the way other decks fight unfair decks. Turns out, it paid off with a top 8 for me, which means I'm going to my first Pro Tour! Couldn't have been happier, except perhaps if it was the Leatherback that had taken me there ;-)
Congrats on making Pro Tour! It'd have been awesome if you made it with Stompy but sadly we're not quite competitive enough, especially on paper.
What is the view on Apostle's Blessing from those who have tested it. From my testing, it is almost as explosive as Aspect of Hydra and just like aspect, he can win out of nowhere. You just gotta test it to actually see the potential of this efficient spell. I have found it good against Tron, Junk, Soul Sisters, Tokens, Delver, and pretty much every creature based deck.
Vines of Vastwood is just better for this deck. Unless you are using it for a pseudo unblockable effect, and in that case... I'm not really sure what to say. Generally trample, or aspect on an unblocked creature should be enough. Maybe elaborate, or give specific examples?
Vines of Vastwood is just better for this deck. Unless you are using it for a pseudo unblockable effect, and in that case... I'm not really sure what to say. Generally trample, or aspect on an unblocked creature should be enough. Maybe elaborate, or give specific examples?
Yes, Vines are much better than Blessing. I tested Apostle's Blessing as a 1-of in addition to a playset of Vines. In many cases, it was great since it provided protection from removal, helped improve combat trades, and worked as a game ender occasionally. However, I found it to be less valuable overall than other options, like Aspect of Hydra.
@ShrimpPoBoy
First of all, the cards I cut when I want to side in Apostle's Blessing are usually Vines of Vastwood and my flex Giant Growth. I believe that against creature based decks Blessing is better than Vastwood because:
- Blessing is more effective against wurmcoil engine that vastwood. Especially since blessing protects from the life gain.
- If you don't have a creature with trample, a creature that has been targeted by Vastwood can easily be chump blocked.
- With blessing you can render a creature unblockable and pump it with, say, aspect of hydra with just two mana.
- Blessing is better than Vastwood when there is a creature that is bigger than your creature that it is blocking. Even if your creature has trample.
- Blessing can often do what Vastwood can do for 1 mana instead of two. (It can grant hexproof and offer combat advantage)
Now those are the reasons why I choose blessing over vastwood against creature based decks.
dismember is so amazing might go up to 4 but not sure.
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
id recommend running beast within since it can destroy ANYTHING. ofc past sb u can side in the real answers but beast within would help in a pinch. i run 2 dismember sb 2 beast within mb
I have seen a deck list or two that have a 1 of Surrak, the Hunt Caller. What's everyone's opinions on that?
You're probably seeing that card in these lists because of that "Playing On a Budget" guy. That is how I discovered this deck, someone linked me this discussion and I've read it all.
I know of one other person who mentioned a FAQ section, and I definitely think that this discussion needs that so people (most) won't ask about the same cards over and over.
I'm still knew to this deck, and I haven't had the most experience playing aggro and I think it would be good general knowledge for new players to help understand how this deck actually works, since it isn't as easy as "play every creature and turn them all sideways". I've gathered a few tips along the way, but what are the most common lines of play that people should be familiar with?
Once he has a counter, he has vigilance, so he can be swinging and also representing the ability to cast spells during or post-combat. I'm always mana starved in the first few turns of a game; having the ability to play a trick and then a creature when you wouldn't otherwise is certainly relevant.
Again, I don't think he's great. I do think he's worthy of consideration.
Because using mana on a combat trick and then having more mana to play more guys is never relevant. I said he's one-drops 9-12; I not sure why this tone was required.
He is a 1/1 for 1. He needs to swing and deal damage to a player to not be terrible. This deck can't afford to swing with a creature with power of 1 or less at anytime of the game to stand a chance.
Dryad Militant will at least make them consider chump blocking with their Delver of Secrets for a 1-to-1 trade. Honored Hierarch needs to tap to add any value above Militant (assuming it landed damage), and sacrificing damage output to tap out to add one extra mana is bad for this deck.
Test it out and show some FNM results. But on the surface he seems good for ramp decks in standard only. I don't see this card being playable in modern.
Have a quick look back through the last 10 - 15 pages or so of this thread - the topic has been discussed a few times. The short version, though, is Avatar is an absolute house. Strictly better than Garruk's Companion (with Reach) on an empty board, and quite regularly coming into play as 4/3 or 5/4 (Experiment One and Strangleroot Geist providing the +1/+1s). He's an automatic 4-of IMO. The only choice then is whether you prefer to use Garruk's Companion over Kalonian Tusker. Some do and like the trample, but the general consensus is that overall the 3 toughness of Tusker is very relevant (dodges Electrolyze and other 2 damage spells, and doesn't trade with Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Pestermite etc) and is enough better than the trample of the Companion for it to get the nod.
That said, a lot of this deck is feel and how you enjoy playing it - test out both and see which you prefer!
Congrats on making Pro Tour! It'd have been awesome if you made it with Stompy but sadly we're not quite competitive enough, especially on paper.
GW Death and Taxes WG
Yes, Vines are much better than Blessing. I tested Apostle's Blessing as a 1-of in addition to a playset of Vines. In many cases, it was great since it provided protection from removal, helped improve combat trades, and worked as a game ender occasionally. However, I found it to be less valuable overall than other options, like Aspect of Hydra.
First of all, the cards I cut when I want to side in Apostle's Blessing are usually Vines of Vastwood and my flex Giant Growth. I believe that against creature based decks Blessing is better than Vastwood because:
- Blessing is more effective against wurmcoil engine that vastwood. Especially since blessing protects from the life gain.
- If you don't have a creature with trample, a creature that has been targeted by Vastwood can easily be chump blocked.
- With blessing you can render a creature unblockable and pump it with, say, aspect of hydra with just two mana.
- Blessing is better than Vastwood when there is a creature that is bigger than your creature that it is blocking. Even if your creature has trample.
- Blessing can often do what Vastwood can do for 1 mana instead of two. (It can grant hexproof and offer combat advantage)
Now those are the reasons why I choose blessing over vastwood against creature based decks.
I go to a big tournament next week, here the list i'll take :
2 Treetop Village
3 Aspect of Hydra
3 Dismember
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
1 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
3 Kalonian Tusker
3 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Choke
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Feed the Clan
2 Gut Shot
1 Oxidize
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Unravel the AEther
1 Torpor Orb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bow of Nylea
here the sideboard explain :
Choke = Grixis Delver, Blue moon, Twin
Creeping Corrosion = Affinity
Feed the Clan = Burn
Gut Shot = for all X/1 (snapcaster, clique, Signal Pest...)
Oxidize = Amulet titan, affinity, Tron
Scavenging Ooze = no need to explain
Thrun, the Last Troll = vs hard control
Unravel the AEther = Affinity, Tron
Torpor Orb = especially for Rhino, Snapcaster and Clique
Pithing Needle = Tron for Karn, Ugin, Ob' Stone, Exp' map...
Bow of Nylea = Vs Junk, Delver...
what do you think?
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Collected Company
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Dungrove Elder
4 Feed the Clan
2 Unravel the AEther
2 Choke
2 Dismember
2 Creeping Corrosion
3 Torpor Orb
dismember is so amazing might go up to 4 but not sure.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
You're probably seeing that card in these lists because of that "Playing On a Budget" guy. That is how I discovered this deck, someone linked me this discussion and I've read it all.
I know of one other person who mentioned a FAQ section, and I definitely think that this discussion needs that so people (most) won't ask about the same cards over and over.
I'm still knew to this deck, and I haven't had the most experience playing aggro and I think it would be good general knowledge for new players to help understand how this deck actually works, since it isn't as easy as "play every creature and turn them all sideways". I've gathered a few tips along the way, but what are the most common lines of play that people should be familiar with?