Sooooo, how does Vesuva work with Moon? I was under the assumption that it just came into play as nothing, basically. But just because I played a Vesuva under moon and targeted my Forest... and it worked, just like in the golden days. Is MODO bugged? Or is this the way it's supposed to work?
Also, I managed to beat turn 3 Moon game 1 vs what I believe was UR Breach (didn't see a wincon.) It was the best feeling Magic has given me in a really long time.
Yeah, that's what I thought...
Anyway, I played FNM for the first time in more than 2 months, and of course brought my Amulets and Prime Times with me. It felt amazing to play the deck in paper after such a long time, even if it's just in a casual environment (33 players, I think.) I only own 3 Azusas in paper, so I played with 3 Azusas, 3 Explores, 4 STS and 2 MD Dismember, with 1 Tracker and 1 Ballista. I wanted to try a bit of the new sideboard I've been tinkering with:
1 Ruric
1 Thrag
1 Tracker
1 Queen
2 Relics
1 Mortuary Mire
2 Swan Song
1 Pact of Negation
2 K Returns
1 Explosives
1 Tec Edge
1
Round 1: Jund. Game 1 I keep an ok hand, he double discards and then Bob starts doing it's thing. I make it til turn 8 or so, and I literally see no Titan/Pact/Tolaria West and die to Tarmos and stuff. Side out Amulets, Cavern, 2 Stirrings; bring in Mortuary Mire, Queen, Thrag, Tracker, Explosives, 2 Relics. He Discards into Lili, but I manage to drop an Azusa. I have 5 mana and a Titan in hand, and I draw an ETB tapped land... After thinking I end up figuring out that my out is to draw an untapped land and cast Titan same turn, so I discard the land. I am rewarded and topdeck a Fountain, slam Titan, get Khalni and Mortuary Mire, bringing back a Titan my opp discarded on turn 2. This is the first game where Mortuary Mire showed it's true power. Game 3 I have a robust hand, but with a bunch of ETB tapped lands. My opp plays Ravine into Ooze. My only way to guarantee on turn 3 is if I play bounceland on turn 2. This leaves me dead to Fulminator, which I have not seen game 2 at all, even though opp draw a fair bit with bobs. I decide to try to go for broke, since if my opp doesn't have untapped land AND Fulminator exactly on turn 3 I basically win, cause my hand is a bunch of lands and gas. He of course has fulminator on turn 3, bringing me back to the stone age. I can't recover and lose... 0-1
Round 2: Elves (with Devoted Druid combo): I'm on the draw and opp leads on Llanowar elf. I lead on Amulet. Turn 2 he plays Devoted Druid and passes (no land.) I play land and Explore, drawing second Amulet, playing it. On his 3rd Turn opp plays Dwynen's Elite and another Llanowar. I untap and I Titan. I can combo, but he is at 20 and has chump blockers. I decided to transmute for EE, and play it for 2 and crack immediately. Opp untaps and plays another Devoted Druid. I untap, attack with Titan, and, again, don't think I can kill him, so I search up Tolaria again, and transmute for a Ballista, which I drop for x=4, killing his druid and one of his Llanowar. He untaps and concedes. He later tells me that if I hadn't killed his druid on both occasions, he had 2 Chords, and would have been able to kill me from there. I take out Tracker, Ghost Quarter and one Explore (I consider taking out pact of negation, but just like in the previous game, I like having the option of getting pact after resolving a Titan. Maybe I'm wrong here and it's just too slow); bring in 2 K Returns and additional EE. Game 2 he finishes turn 3 with 7 dudes in play. I untap and K Return his board. Then I do Titan things and the game is over fast. 1-1
Round 3: UWR draw/go Control: Game 1 he has no idea what happened to him. Turn 2 he taps out for Search for Azcanta, and I just turn 3 him with double amulet. I suspect he's not on Queller/Geist, so I side out 4 Amulets, Khalni, Crumbling Vestige, 1 Stirrings; bring in Queen, Tracker, 2 Relics, Thrag, Mortuary Mire, Tec Edge. Here adding the Relics to my sideboard actually messed up my usual sideboarding, since now I have too many cards I like in the matchup. I decide that since I saw Search I'd rather have Relics than Swan Song. My opp plays Colonnade, I play Cavern naming Scout and play a STS. My opp Spreading Seases my Cavern. Here I again learn something new. I thought that even if is Seased, if I play Vesuva I can copy the Cavern. We call a judge, and he rules that it'd be just an Island, which kinda messes me up a bit, since I don't have any other green sources... I spend a couple of turns attacking with Tribe Scout while he makes land drops. I eventually draw a bounceland, and that's when the game is over. My opp put no pressure on me all this time, and it's about to get down. I start resolving Titans through Cavern, fetching a Tolaria, and he pathes it. I then play Tusk, which he decides to Helix. He then taps out to bounce the Beast token with Cryptic, so I take that chance to resolve the Summoner's Pact that was fetched by the first Titan. This new uncounterable Titan now goes get (you guessed it) Mortuary Mire, which gets back Tusk, and my opp says "I don't even know what I can do, I'm just gonna die." Indeed, 2 turns later, even after pathes on another Titan and whatnot, ends up killed by an uncounterable Ballista for 9. 2-1 for the home team!
Round 4: BW Eldrazi Processors. This matchup feels very VERY favorable. Game 1 he has a discard spell, but that and his Lingering Souls are not enough. I resolve a Titan, and it's over quickly after, no Amulet needed. Bring in Tusk, Queen, Tracker, Mire; out Pact of Negation, 1 Amulet, 1 Green Pact, Cavern. Game 2 I keep an extremely greedy hand of Green Pact and 6 lands (one of them being Radiant Fountain.) It's turn 7, and I only saw 2 Azusas and an Explore as spells drawn. I obviously die. Game 3 the deck functions beautifully and delivers an effortless victory (even though my opp was happy that he got to Disenchant my Amulet. It was cute.) 3-1
The deck felt truly great, and I was happy to see that not many people were packing Blood Moons at that store (even though one of the maniacs was playing all-in red, which I masterfully managed to dodge.) Mortuary Mire felt truly outstanding. I really understood the real value of it against Jund, when I was able to fetch for Titans while protecting them from Lili and without needing to have a full 9 mana to Transmute and play Titan in the same turn. I will keep testing, but I'll say that my first impressions are really positive. The rest I was quite happy with. Once again, the MD Ballista was a lifesaver, further cementing it's well deserved spot in the 60. The deck also ran rather smoothly with just 3 Azusas, which I liked (cause I won't need to spend $50 on the card anytime soon :P) In the end, there is nothing like playing the deck in paper, shuffling 3 million times per game, boucing and tapping and untapping your bouncelands to represent Amulet triggers, actually looking at the face of despair in your opponent's faces while you quietly and in detail explain to them how it is that all these things that are happening will end up in them being dead. This deck is just too awesome and too much fun. It always is Prime Time!
Man... it truly sucks when you start at 2-0, and after that the wings fall off... It feels like that was some pretty bad pairings (I'm pretty sure Goblins runs moons, so you played against 4 BM decks out of 5, that is truly unlucky.) I feel overall favored VS Goblins, but sometimes the deck just doesn't cooperate.
Fog is interesting, I did see lists running 2 in the past, but if you're running a non-tutorable/non-pickable with Stirrings 1 of that you want ONLY TO BUY TIME against decks that will be killing you by turns 3-4, I wonder if it's even worth it at all. Against Infect and Humans I'd almost rather run Ballista or another Explosives, which have uses against plenty of other decks. I'm not sure I'm ready to drop Ruric with the online metagame as it currently is, because it's just GGs vs Lantern, which I keep constantly running into. I do understand the pros of Tormod's Crypt, though... I might try it out, but instead of 1 of the Relics for now.
I've been strongly considering adding more Simian lately, maybe even up to 3 copies. My justification is basically that we have several massive payoff cards in Titan and to a lesser extent Tireless Tracker. Titan ramps us at least 2 - 4 mana, while fetching another copy of itself or a potent hate card. Tracker almost always draws an extra card. Sacrificing a card in our hand to make one red mana is quite reasonable when we can play these two value monsters a turn ahead of schedule. The combo heavy meta is just too fast and too consistent to try and hate out with something like Dismember. It also enables the cute Simian, Simian, Amulet, Amulet, Simic/Grull/Selesyna, Explore/Azusa, Titan/Summoner's Pact into T1 kill.
Another degenerate magic card I'm wondering about if we embrace the jank is Manamorphose. Effectively making double simian hands have 8+ cards is highly desirable, and going up to 4 Explores is something I've always wanted to try for consistency. A 52 card deck as a starting point is something many decks strive for. Green and Red are our first and third most common color.
If we go heavier on Simians, I think 2x Relic of Progenitus also becomes better. Tapping out with a Relic in play and a Simian in hand is more often than not going to be an extremely satisfying gotcha against a graveyard dependent deck and now we are down to 50 cards main board.
Also going to second the main board Hornet Queen tech, it's just too powerful in soo many circumstances. If we can slow our opponent from swinging we are winning 90% of the time. Kessig is absolutely the better card than Sunhome and I feel like a third of the games now are won with some secondary creature beats and it interacts particularly unfairly with Hornet Queen.
I don’t think you’ll find a good removal substitute without heavily adjusting our mana base either, what I would do is figure out what matchups you most need it for (such as storm) and try to find another axis to attack them (such as relic of progenitus)
@geedenorris, today I’ve tested your deck. I found it very good!. I had troubles with burn since you dont have sakura which is an nobrainer sub optimal blocker for the deck. But works
Although I m wondering what are the uses you intend for Hurkyl’s Recall.
I think the burn matchup is pretty decent though if you want to improve it you could change the kozilek’s return in the board into pyroclasm. Recall is basically just for affinity, but generally wins you the game when you cast it. I said on stream yesterday that I plan to cut it for an ancient grudge since I think I want grudge vs eldrazi tron.
I think the question is can the deck without Lotus Bloom go off significantly more consistently before T4 with those 4 extra cards? In practice it might be more than 4 cards since if we are going off a turn earlier we can probably trim an EE and a Pact of Negation (Lotus bloom list run 2x of each). So 6 cards extra, what should they be? Scout is a good start, but it kinda isn't amazing in multiples until you've got an Amulet and even then it's meh since its probably already died to a fatal push or a bolt (of course a path is welcome). I've never played more than 3. Simian Spirit Guide has led to some super busted starts and might be a serious contender but this isn't a card that lends itself to consistency. Manamorphose has looked ok in goldfishing and been integral to some especially janky T2 Titans but the 2 mana hill is actually harder than one would think.
When Tron was being more intensely discussed people used to run simulations with various sets of 60 cards to see which most consistently produced 3 different Tron pieces on T3. I'd love it for someone with some more programming experience to try and simulate this, but being one of the most complicated decks in modern makes that task especially hard.
If you have a slow hand on the draw vs living end with a redundant titan, do you move to discard phase and discard it turn 1? If it is slow enough to consider this should it be a mulligan anyway? Under what situations would you make this play if ever?
When Tron was being more intensely discussed people used to run simulations with various sets of 60 cards to see which most consistently produced 3 different Tron pieces on T3. I'd love it for someone with some more programming experience to try and simulate this, but being one of the most complicated decks in modern makes that task especially hard.
I have a python script someone else wrote for Scapeshift that simulates how often you can Scapeshift. You just input all your deck lists plus a couple rules and it poops out the numbers. I will get you guys the github when I get home from work tonight.
Hi Folks, new to MTGSalvation but I absolutely love Amulet Titan!
Inspired by Brian Cook's in depth analysis of Legacy Storm and MTGSalvation's Lantern Control data scraping efforts I've begun logging games for Amulet Titan. Has anyone else tried something similar? Would love to crowd source fine tuning our lists.
My data's small right now but my takeaways are I like 2 Tireless trackers rather than 1 or 3 and I want to be on the draw vs control/discard oriented decks. Check out the attached for a quick snapshot of analysis.
@Titans4Days Sweet analysis (and sweet name, btw)! The way you're organizing the decks seems a bit too confusing, and I'd like to see what parameters you're working with. For example, RG Ponza is a terrible matchup, and UW is quite favorable, in my experience. However, I'd consider both to be "Land Disruption Decks." Maybe there's a way we can be more specific, and actually name the different archetypes (which is what I believe most people who do this kind of data recollection tend to do) or have a list of decks that each column represents. That's the only thing I'd change, besides that it looks super sweet.
Tracker is indeed quite amazing in the deck, I agree with you 100% there. The thread has been quite active lately, and we have been bouncing ideas back and forth, and trying to settle on the pros and cons of different things (the latest one we kinda settled on is that 3 basic Forests is the consensus way to go.)
Long time lurker first-time poster. I've slowly been trying to learn how to play Amulet consuming any and all content I can get my hands on (including the videos posted by daviusminimus - which were super helpful btw) and working through the Primer. I've finally managed to build the deck on MODO and have had average success, mostly due to still learning how the deck plays on MODO etc and not being fully aware of what is actually possible with 1+ Amulets in play. The deck is not very forgiving but is very fun and very rewarding.
I have sideboard question. Against Eldrazi & Taxes is that a matchup where you would leave Amulet of Vigor in your deck or not? I have been sideboarding it out, which seemed ok but they have enough disruptive elements in their deck where having the payoff of Amulet in play might be worth it. It could also just be that having Amulet is "training wheels" and once you're are sufficiently experienced with the deck you will not need it. (decklist attached below)
Second, how important are the Leylines to the Lotus Bloom version of the deck, it looks interesting and is something that I would like to try but might hold off on it for a bit until I can become technically proficient with the deck.
Anyway thanks all, this thread has been very informative so far and I've learnt a lot!
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Also, I managed to beat turn 3 Moon game 1 vs what I believe was UR Breach (didn't see a wincon.) It was the best feeling Magic has given me in a really long time.
Anyway, I played FNM for the first time in more than 2 months, and of course brought my Amulets and Prime Times with me. It felt amazing to play the deck in paper after such a long time, even if it's just in a casual environment (33 players, I think.) I only own 3 Azusas in paper, so I played with 3 Azusas, 3 Explores, 4 STS and 2 MD Dismember, with 1 Tracker and 1 Ballista. I wanted to try a bit of the new sideboard I've been tinkering with:
1 Ruric
1 Thrag
1 Tracker
1 Queen
2 Relics
1 Mortuary Mire
2 Swan Song
1 Pact of Negation
2 K Returns
1 Explosives
1 Tec Edge
1
Round 1: Jund. Game 1 I keep an ok hand, he double discards and then Bob starts doing it's thing. I make it til turn 8 or so, and I literally see no Titan/Pact/Tolaria West and die to Tarmos and stuff. Side out Amulets, Cavern, 2 Stirrings; bring in Mortuary Mire, Queen, Thrag, Tracker, Explosives, 2 Relics. He Discards into Lili, but I manage to drop an Azusa. I have 5 mana and a Titan in hand, and I draw an ETB tapped land... After thinking I end up figuring out that my out is to draw an untapped land and cast Titan same turn, so I discard the land. I am rewarded and topdeck a Fountain, slam Titan, get Khalni and Mortuary Mire, bringing back a Titan my opp discarded on turn 2. This is the first game where Mortuary Mire showed it's true power. Game 3 I have a robust hand, but with a bunch of ETB tapped lands. My opp plays Ravine into Ooze. My only way to guarantee on turn 3 is if I play bounceland on turn 2. This leaves me dead to Fulminator, which I have not seen game 2 at all, even though opp draw a fair bit with bobs. I decide to try to go for broke, since if my opp doesn't have untapped land AND Fulminator exactly on turn 3 I basically win, cause my hand is a bunch of lands and gas. He of course has fulminator on turn 3, bringing me back to the stone age. I can't recover and lose... 0-1
Round 2: Elves (with Devoted Druid combo): I'm on the draw and opp leads on Llanowar elf. I lead on Amulet. Turn 2 he plays Devoted Druid and passes (no land.) I play land and Explore, drawing second Amulet, playing it. On his 3rd Turn opp plays Dwynen's Elite and another Llanowar. I untap and I Titan. I can combo, but he is at 20 and has chump blockers. I decided to transmute for EE, and play it for 2 and crack immediately. Opp untaps and plays another Devoted Druid. I untap, attack with Titan, and, again, don't think I can kill him, so I search up Tolaria again, and transmute for a Ballista, which I drop for x=4, killing his druid and one of his Llanowar. He untaps and concedes. He later tells me that if I hadn't killed his druid on both occasions, he had 2 Chords, and would have been able to kill me from there. I take out Tracker, Ghost Quarter and one Explore (I consider taking out pact of negation, but just like in the previous game, I like having the option of getting pact after resolving a Titan. Maybe I'm wrong here and it's just too slow); bring in 2 K Returns and additional EE. Game 2 he finishes turn 3 with 7 dudes in play. I untap and K Return his board. Then I do Titan things and the game is over fast. 1-1
Round 3: UWR draw/go Control: Game 1 he has no idea what happened to him. Turn 2 he taps out for Search for Azcanta, and I just turn 3 him with double amulet. I suspect he's not on Queller/Geist, so I side out 4 Amulets, Khalni, Crumbling Vestige, 1 Stirrings; bring in Queen, Tracker, 2 Relics, Thrag, Mortuary Mire, Tec Edge. Here adding the Relics to my sideboard actually messed up my usual sideboarding, since now I have too many cards I like in the matchup. I decide that since I saw Search I'd rather have Relics than Swan Song. My opp plays Colonnade, I play Cavern naming Scout and play a STS. My opp Spreading Seases my Cavern. Here I again learn something new. I thought that even if is Seased, if I play Vesuva I can copy the Cavern. We call a judge, and he rules that it'd be just an Island, which kinda messes me up a bit, since I don't have any other green sources... I spend a couple of turns attacking with Tribe Scout while he makes land drops. I eventually draw a bounceland, and that's when the game is over. My opp put no pressure on me all this time, and it's about to get down. I start resolving Titans through Cavern, fetching a Tolaria, and he pathes it. I then play Tusk, which he decides to Helix. He then taps out to bounce the Beast token with Cryptic, so I take that chance to resolve the Summoner's Pact that was fetched by the first Titan. This new uncounterable Titan now goes get (you guessed it) Mortuary Mire, which gets back Tusk, and my opp says "I don't even know what I can do, I'm just gonna die." Indeed, 2 turns later, even after pathes on another Titan and whatnot, ends up killed by an uncounterable Ballista for 9. 2-1 for the home team!
Round 4: BW Eldrazi Processors. This matchup feels very VERY favorable. Game 1 he has a discard spell, but that and his Lingering Souls are not enough. I resolve a Titan, and it's over quickly after, no Amulet needed. Bring in Tusk, Queen, Tracker, Mire; out Pact of Negation, 1 Amulet, 1 Green Pact, Cavern. Game 2 I keep an extremely greedy hand of Green Pact and 6 lands (one of them being Radiant Fountain.) It's turn 7, and I only saw 2 Azusas and an Explore as spells drawn. I obviously die. Game 3 the deck functions beautifully and delivers an effortless victory (even though my opp was happy that he got to Disenchant my Amulet. It was cute.) 3-1
The deck felt truly great, and I was happy to see that not many people were packing Blood Moons at that store (even though one of the maniacs was playing all-in red, which I masterfully managed to dodge.) Mortuary Mire felt truly outstanding. I really understood the real value of it against Jund, when I was able to fetch for Titans while protecting them from Lili and without needing to have a full 9 mana to Transmute and play Titan in the same turn. I will keep testing, but I'll say that my first impressions are really positive. The rest I was quite happy with. Once again, the MD Ballista was a lifesaver, further cementing it's well deserved spot in the 60. The deck also ran rather smoothly with just 3 Azusas, which I liked (cause I won't need to spend $50 on the card anytime soon :P) In the end, there is nothing like playing the deck in paper, shuffling 3 million times per game, boucing and tapping and untapping your bouncelands to represent Amulet triggers, actually looking at the face of despair in your opponent's faces while you quietly and in detail explain to them how it is that all these things that are happening will end up in them being dead. This deck is just too awesome and too much fun. It always is Prime Time!
Fog is interesting, I did see lists running 2 in the past, but if you're running a non-tutorable/non-pickable with Stirrings 1 of that you want ONLY TO BUY TIME against decks that will be killing you by turns 3-4, I wonder if it's even worth it at all. Against Infect and Humans I'd almost rather run Ballista or another Explosives, which have uses against plenty of other decks. I'm not sure I'm ready to drop Ruric with the online metagame as it currently is, because it's just GGs vs Lantern, which I keep constantly running into. I do understand the pros of Tormod's Crypt, though... I might try it out, but instead of 1 of the Relics for now.
Another degenerate magic card I'm wondering about if we embrace the jank is Manamorphose. Effectively making double simian hands have 8+ cards is highly desirable, and going up to 4 Explores is something I've always wanted to try for consistency. A 52 card deck as a starting point is something many decks strive for. Green and Red are our first and third most common color.
If we go heavier on Simians, I think 2x Relic of Progenitus also becomes better. Tapping out with a Relic in play and a Simian in hand is more often than not going to be an extremely satisfying gotcha against a graveyard dependent deck and now we are down to 50 cards main board.
Also going to second the main board Hornet Queen tech, it's just too powerful in soo many circumstances. If we can slow our opponent from swinging we are winning 90% of the time. Kessig is absolutely the better card than Sunhome and I feel like a third of the games now are won with some secondary creature beats and it interacts particularly unfairly with Hornet Queen.
Although I m wondering what are the uses you intend for Hurkyl’s Recall.
Beat storm 2-0. Quite impressed!
Thanks in advance!
Is this decklist better than the traditional versions?
When Tron was being more intensely discussed people used to run simulations with various sets of 60 cards to see which most consistently produced 3 different Tron pieces on T3. I'd love it for someone with some more programming experience to try and simulate this, but being one of the most complicated decks in modern makes that task especially hard.
I have a python script someone else wrote for Scapeshift that simulates how often you can Scapeshift. You just input all your deck lists plus a couple rules and it poops out the numbers. I will get you guys the github when I get home from work tonight.
Inspired by Brian Cook's in depth analysis of Legacy Storm and MTGSalvation's Lantern Control data scraping efforts I've begun logging games for Amulet Titan. Has anyone else tried something similar? Would love to crowd source fine tuning our lists.
Here's what I have so far - Deck Data
My data's small right now but my takeaways are I like 2 Tireless trackers rather than 1 or 3 and I want to be on the draw vs control/discard oriented decks. Check out the attached for a quick snapshot of analysis.
Happy to hear some feedback!
Tracker is indeed quite amazing in the deck, I agree with you 100% there. The thread has been quite active lately, and we have been bouncing ideas back and forth, and trying to settle on the pros and cons of different things (the latest one we kinda settled on is that 3 basic Forests is the consensus way to go.)
Welcome to the forum!
Long time lurker first-time poster. I've slowly been trying to learn how to play Amulet consuming any and all content I can get my hands on (including the videos posted by daviusminimus - which were super helpful btw) and working through the Primer. I've finally managed to build the deck on MODO and have had average success, mostly due to still learning how the deck plays on MODO etc and not being fully aware of what is actually possible with 1+ Amulets in play. The deck is not very forgiving but is very fun and very rewarding.
I have sideboard question. Against Eldrazi & Taxes is that a matchup where you would leave Amulet of Vigor in your deck or not? I have been sideboarding it out, which seemed ok but they have enough disruptive elements in their deck where having the payoff of Amulet in play might be worth it. It could also just be that having Amulet is "training wheels" and once you're are sufficiently experienced with the deck you will not need it. (decklist attached below)
Second, how important are the Leylines to the Lotus Bloom version of the deck, it looks interesting and is something that I would like to try but might hold off on it for a bit until I can become technically proficient with the deck.
Anyway thanks all, this thread has been very informative so far and I've learnt a lot!