When we will certainly know the dictamination about this, some judges I know already told me that vesuva becomes just a mountain.
This is sad but true. The new ruling makes Blood Moon also effect abilities of lands those are worded "You may have ~ enter the battlefield as.." or "As ~ enters the battlefield". Same thing will happen to interaction between True-Name Nemesis and Humility - in the past you were able to name a player (even tho Humility makes Nemesis a 1/1 without any abilities) but for now on you can't even name anyone (if it would even matter tho).
@daviusminimus
I also recently cut my number of relics from 3 to 2. It hasn't seemed as good recently, but I still like having a decent chance of drawing it against the decks where it matters.
The nice thing about groves is they allow you to more consistently cast sweepers out of The board on-curve, in addition to buying time against death's shadow. I feel like unless you're playing serum visions, groves are better than sanctums. I prefer groves with explores over the sanctum route right now. In your list I would cut spell pierce and ssg for 2 explores and play groves.
Kozilek best characteristic is: instant & colorless. Is capable to kill manland in answer to cranial plating. Also Kills Mirran crusader, think that firespout don't.
Myself run 1 pyro 2 kozilek on sideboard (and 2 dismember). Aggro decks are required to be stomped.
I present to you Aretherk's Amulet Horizon. This list has been putting up great results in paper, and has main board answer to bloodmoon. The deck is more midrange, but it's the best midrange version of amulet titan I have played.
Give is a shot through a league or your LGS, I feel it's an improvement.
@daviusminimus It appears that everyone took your request for advice as an opportunity to plug all their own builds, so I'll offer some advice. I think Botanical Sanctum vs Grove is a close call. I think with no Explores or Serum Visions and only one Relic, plus the SSG, plus 28 lands, your card quality is worse than the typical Amulet list, so you may need the Groves more than some other decks to stave off a Death's Shadow for an extra turn or two. I also think needing a blue source on turn 1 may not be what you need all that often - I think you'll usually be spending turn 1 playing an amulet or a Scout. That said, postboard if you board out scouts or amulets the Botanical Sanctum could feel pretty smart. I like at least two Relics, which gives you a pretty good chance of finding it in your opener or off a Stirrings, and finding it by t2 is pretty important against Storm and Shadow decks (although t2 on the draw isn't even quick enough sometimes!). I feel like when I find Relic I beat Storm almost every time if I can afford to keep up 1 mana each turn - they need a double Grapeshot or a ridiculous amount of cantrip luck to go off through a Relic, as I'm sure you know. Since you have Bog main, I think you're fine with 1 though. I never liked Explore, so I can't speak to that. If I were to make a suggestion, I would maybe commit to either 2 SSG or 2 Pierce or drop the Courser, or visions or something. I feel like the flex spots should either be used to have answers to everything or speed the deck up. While you have a lot of answers, you sacrifice a lot of card quality/advantage to do it, so I think your BGx and other attrition strategies is probably weak. Explores and Visions help a lot in those matches in my experience. As you mentioned, you made room for another Tracker with this strategy, so maybe you are comfortable enough post-board against those archetypes that it's no biggie. Hope that helped.
I'm off grove explore and trying serum visions again, a'la gp Vancouver lists. Why not run an extra pact of negation in your board Davius? Also, if uw is big on your meta, you should be psyched for the new mythic dino.
@daviusminimus - I tried fitting more basics, 4 would be the perfect number of basics but the mana base is suuuuper tight. The deck has been running really smooth with 3 basics, and has helped a ton against moon decks. Also with all the white, white leylines have been an allstar against hand removal opponents. As for firespout, do we have a better 3 mana board clear? Kozi returns still requires red. Wrath of god might be a turn too slow, I'm open for options. As for the tribe-elders, they were an idea by DJbenji and have been working extremely well - props to him with the idea. Fog against a creature and ramps, essentially it sometimes gains us a turn we wouln't have as well as ramping of course.
@daviusminimus: I've been gone for a bit but thanks a bunch for replying a while ago. I'm really close to completing this deck (so happy I found some dirt cheap azusas before Todd Stevens made their price spike) and you have a lot of good insight on the numbers that help this deck survive as a slow combo deck. I'm still not sure where I'll end up but I do know I want to start with 3 relic, 1 bojuka bog, and 0 explore main.
Is there a reason why explore is looked at before skyshroud ranger? I know the ranger is just a worse scout but the redundancy seems strong for being faster against spell based combo and tron decks.
@Zrifts: Killer write up. I have to say I'm more interested in breach versions than ever before. Any thoughts on cutting down to 2 emrakul and going up to 4 scout? You'd still have 11 strong breach targets (counting pacts) but have more consistent ramp to get there. Seems like a really tight decklist though and I'm impressed. I've seen versions of regular amulet titan with 4 simian spirit guide and I'm curious how this compares as another way to utilize all of the hands that can only get to 5 mana in a timely manner.
Is there a reason why explore is looked at before skyshroud ranger? I know the ranger is just a worse scout but the redundancy seems strong for being faster against spell based combo and tron decks.
Explore is filling a different role. It's replacing Serum Visions while Skyshroud Ranger is another Scout or Azusa effect, and a significantly worse one at that.
Explore is only there to replace Serum Visions because people were moving to a list with Grove of the Burnwillows and we couldn't get blue to cast Serum Visions consistently.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
I won against Esper Midrange, Burn, Lantern Control, Junk. And lose against Naya Zoo and Elves, against Elves I did a misplay, could have played Ugin but decided no because he was all untapped and played a Titan through a Pact. Ugin is a great addition to the deck, big threat and clean the board for us <3.
Against Zoo, was kind of overwelming the amount o creatures. I decided to remove 1 Kozilek's Return in order to add 1 firespout.
Hive Mind helped me to win at least 3 games against esper midrange, junk and burn. Is a great win con even in sideboard games if the opponent lack of green and or blue.
Against Lantern I managed to land a turn 3 Titan with amulet and scout in play, and Tracker did all the job on the second game.
I'm cool with the 2 explores and 2 relic, storm and GDS are still a thing here, I agree with Davius regarding the flex slots, It is up to the local meta.
@DaviusMinimus: I really like your point about explore helping post board plans but it still seems like such a compromise in deck building. If we could support a lot of scry lands I would have a much different opinion as you can build your own mini serum visions while ramping but there just isn't room to make it a consistent part of the plan.
Yeah the call to start with relic and bog is all about the meta at my lgs. With an average of 20-30 players a night we have a crap ton of death's shadow decks and literally no eldrazi tron for some reason. There used to be one kid who ran it on a budget without chalice but I haven't seen him in a while. Sometimes a few people come with g/x tron but that is maybe 1-2 in a night. Valakut decks are definitely present but so is storm (although I'm usually one of the 2-4 on it). All in all because of how shadow heavy my lgs is compared to mtgo it makes me want to hedge in that direction, especially considering it really helps game 1's against our storm and dredge diehards. I'm very open to all of the flex slots changing (I very much agree with you Davius on the numbers I don't want to touch) but for now this is where I'd like to start.
I also like the idea of various singletons filling this deck out. Most of the cards considered for flex slots have pretty diminishing returns but can be combined in a way to create some amount of redundancy in role playing. This helps build a coherent plan while still presenting a deck full of wild cards the opponent has to try and unravel.
Does anyone have any experience with disdainful stroke in the side? For context my current sideboard has 3x seal of primordium so that I'm not reliant on swan song to fight blood moon. I'd really like to have a counter that fights tron and primeval titan while staying relevant against other spell based combo.
I just want to share a Turn 2 kill that I had on friday against my brother who plays Mardu Restore Balance. Deck that is really unfavored from my point of view.
I had to mulli to 6 due lack of lands.
My hand was: Gemstone Mine, Explorer, Azusa, Summoners pact, Selesnya S, Amulet.
I was on the draw.
T1: Draw explore. Gemstone- Sakura.
T2. I draw forest.
With gemstone I played Amulet.
Played two times selesnya sanctuary (bounce)to cast Azusa. 1 mana floating.
With Azusa I played 1 time. To cast explore.
Draw second amulet. From here I realized I was about to do the turn 2 kill.
I played the Amulet then generate 8 mana from Selesnya S due to double amulet triggers.
Fetch for titan and etc...
I know I was stupidly lucky.
But I just draw almost all the 4of cards of the deck.
Never did a turn two kill before without summer bloom.
Sad for my brother, but he beat me a lot on the kitchen table games when I visit him lol.
I don't know If this was asked before, but imagine the following situation:
I have azusa and an amulet in play. I'm about to cast my first land, and it is a tolaria west. Amulet triggers, and my opponent have a window to kill azusa with lightning bolt, and making the turn full of sadness.
That's ok?
It is better to play untapped lands first to avoid this.
I just recently got into the archetype so I'm not a great source of information on the the best split of engine cards. Azusa is obviously insane in certain instances, but terrible in multiples. Sakura has a similar problem, but is probably tied with amulet for the best T1 play... Having said that, Sakura requires green which is not a given; Radiant Fountain, Bojuka, Slayers', Sunhome, Ghost Quarter, and Tolaria West all can cast Amulet but not Sakura.
Does something like 4 Amulet, 4 Stirrings, 3 Sakura, 4 Explore, 2 Azusa, and 1 Mia and Denn seem reasonable? I don't see how we can keep Explore at 3 when it is an integral part of T2 kills and cantrips as a late game draw. Scouts/Azusa also die to all of our sweepers while Mia and Dinn survives EE and Firespout/KReturn (while blocking a ton of the format). I'm also drawn to Academy Ruins and a heavier reliance on maybe 2xEE MB to keep go wide in check.
The Life From the Loam and Mortuary Mire (from the video) look great in grindfest. World Breaker could also be cool, hitting Blood Moon, getting found by stirrings, while recurring for the cost of just a land.
Thoughts on Coalition Relic? It's very easy to get to 6 mana on the following turn which is obviously the breakpoint our deck is built around.
Main:
4 amulet of vigor
4 serum visions
4 Sakura tribe scout
4 ancient stirrings
2 explore
3 Azusa lost but seeking
1 courser of kruphix
4 summoners pact
4 primeval Titan
1 walking ballista
1 engineered explosives
4 Simic growth chamber
4 gruul turf
4 gemstone mine
3 botanical sanctum
3 tolaria West
2 forest
1 cavern of souls
1 bojuka big
1 Vesuva
1 boros garrison
1 slayers stronghold
1 sunhome
1 radiant fointain
1 khalni garden
SIDEBOARD:
3 swan song
1 pact of negation
1 hornet queen
1 ghost quarter
1 mortuary mire
2 kozileks return
2 dismember
2 tireless tracker
1 ruric thar
1 thragtusk
What do you guys think of my list? It has been doing extremely well. Mainboard why do people split the gruul turf and sylesnia sanctuary? I would think that having all the red sources for sb cards is optimal.
Also not sold on the last 4 cards in my sideboard, maybe shave some for more dismember or k return. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
What do you guys think of a polymorph package? Using call the scions from battle for zendikar and polymorph to bring out either emrakul or a primeval titan. I guess asuza would be the problem at that point...
Polymorph would only cost 4 mana and the scions can either chump block or ramp...
Also call the scions is colorless for ancient stirrings.
Two 1/1 scions can come down on Turn 3 or turn 2 with an amulet. Turn 4 you can polymorph a scion into emrakul or primeval titan or turn 3 with an amulet in play.
With Simian Spirit Guide you can Turn 2 polymorph a plant token but than you run into the problem of morphing a SSG instead of PrimeTime or Emrakul.
On another topic, someone tried sideboarding Ugin, the spirit dragon against blood moon decks?
This is sad but true. The new ruling makes Blood Moon also effect abilities of lands those are worded "You may have ~ enter the battlefield as.." or "As ~ enters the battlefield". Same thing will happen to interaction between True-Name Nemesis and Humility - in the past you were able to name a player (even tho Humility makes Nemesis a 1/1 without any abilities) but for now on you can't even name anyone (if it would even matter tho).
Modern
WUBRG
I also recently cut my number of relics from 3 to 2. It hasn't seemed as good recently, but I still like having a decent chance of drawing it against the decks where it matters.
The nice thing about groves is they allow you to more consistently cast sweepers out of The board on-curve, in addition to buying time against death's shadow. I feel like unless you're playing serum visions, groves are better than sanctums. I prefer groves with explores over the sanctum route right now. In your list I would cut spell pierce and ssg for 2 explores and play groves.
Myself run 1 pyro 2 kozilek on sideboard (and 2 dismember). Aggro decks are required to be stomped.
I present to you Aretherk's Amulet Horizon. This list has been putting up great results in paper, and has main board answer to bloodmoon. The deck is more midrange, but it's the best midrange version of amulet titan I have played.
Give is a shot through a league or your LGS, I feel it's an improvement.
1x Boros Garrison
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Forest
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Gruul Turf
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Kabira Crossroads
1x Khalni Garden
1x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
4x Selesnya Sanctuary
3x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3x Tolaria West
1x Vesuva
3x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4x Primeval Titan
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Sakura-Tribe Scout
1x Walking Ballista
Instants
1x Pact of Negation
4x Path to Exile
4x Summoner's Pact
Artifacts
4x Amulet of Vigor
1x Engineered Explosives
Sorcery
4x Ancient Stirrings
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Crumble to Dust
2x Firespout
1x Hornet Queen
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Obstinate Baloth
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2x Swan Song
2x Tireless Tracker
Is there a reason why explore is looked at before skyshroud ranger? I know the ranger is just a worse scout but the redundancy seems strong for being faster against spell based combo and tron decks.
@Zrifts: Killer write up. I have to say I'm more interested in breach versions than ever before. Any thoughts on cutting down to 2 emrakul and going up to 4 scout? You'd still have 11 strong breach targets (counting pacts) but have more consistent ramp to get there. Seems like a really tight decklist though and I'm impressed. I've seen versions of regular amulet titan with 4 simian spirit guide and I'm curious how this compares as another way to utilize all of the hands that can only get to 5 mana in a timely manner.
Explore is filling a different role. It's replacing Serum Visions while Skyshroud Ranger is another Scout or Azusa effect, and a significantly worse one at that.
Explore is only there to replace Serum Visions because people were moving to a list with Grove of the Burnwillows and we couldn't get blue to cast Serum Visions consistently.
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
1 Walking Ballista
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Explore
1 Pact of Negation
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Amulet of Vigor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Hive Mind
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boros Garrison
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Gruul Turf
1 Khalni Garden
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Forest
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
1 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Pyroclasm
2 Dismember
1 Thragtusk
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Hornet Queen
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
I won against Esper Midrange, Burn, Lantern Control, Junk. And lose against Naya Zoo and Elves, against Elves I did a misplay, could have played Ugin but decided no because he was all untapped and played a Titan through a Pact. Ugin is a great addition to the deck, big threat and clean the board for us <3.
Against Zoo, was kind of overwelming the amount o creatures. I decided to remove 1 Kozilek's Return in order to add 1 firespout.
Hive Mind helped me to win at least 3 games against esper midrange, junk and burn. Is a great win con even in sideboard games if the opponent lack of green and or blue.
Against Lantern I managed to land a turn 3 Titan with amulet and scout in play, and Tracker did all the job on the second game.
I'm cool with the 2 explores and 2 relic, storm and GDS are still a thing here, I agree with Davius regarding the flex slots, It is up to the local meta.
Yeah the call to start with relic and bog is all about the meta at my lgs. With an average of 20-30 players a night we have a crap ton of death's shadow decks and literally no eldrazi tron for some reason. There used to be one kid who ran it on a budget without chalice but I haven't seen him in a while. Sometimes a few people come with g/x tron but that is maybe 1-2 in a night. Valakut decks are definitely present but so is storm (although I'm usually one of the 2-4 on it). All in all because of how shadow heavy my lgs is compared to mtgo it makes me want to hedge in that direction, especially considering it really helps game 1's against our storm and dredge diehards. I'm very open to all of the flex slots changing (I very much agree with you Davius on the numbers I don't want to touch) but for now this is where I'd like to start.
I also like the idea of various singletons filling this deck out. Most of the cards considered for flex slots have pretty diminishing returns but can be combined in a way to create some amount of redundancy in role playing. This helps build a coherent plan while still presenting a deck full of wild cards the opponent has to try and unravel.
Does anyone have any experience with disdainful stroke in the side? For context my current sideboard has 3x seal of primordium so that I'm not reliant on swan song to fight blood moon. I'd really like to have a counter that fights tron and primeval titan while staying relevant against other spell based combo.
I had to mulli to 6 due lack of lands.
My hand was: Gemstone Mine, Explorer, Azusa, Summoners pact, Selesnya S, Amulet.
I was on the draw.
T1: Draw explore. Gemstone- Sakura.
T2. I draw forest.
With gemstone I played Amulet.
Played two times selesnya sanctuary (bounce)to cast Azusa. 1 mana floating.
With Azusa I played 1 time. To cast explore.
Draw second amulet. From here I realized I was about to do the turn 2 kill.
I played the Amulet then generate 8 mana from Selesnya S due to double amulet triggers.
Fetch for titan and etc...
I know I was stupidly lucky.
But I just draw almost all the 4of cards of the deck.
Never did a turn two kill before without summer bloom.
Sad for my brother, but he beat me a lot on the kitchen table games when I visit him lol.
Regards!
I don't know If this was asked before, but imagine the following situation:
I have azusa and an amulet in play. I'm about to cast my first land, and it is a tolaria west. Amulet triggers, and my opponent have a window to kill azusa with lightning bolt, and making the turn full of sadness.
That's ok?
It is better to play untapped lands first to avoid this.
Sorry guys if this is too basic.
I just recently got into the archetype so I'm not a great source of information on the the best split of engine cards. Azusa is obviously insane in certain instances, but terrible in multiples. Sakura has a similar problem, but is probably tied with amulet for the best T1 play... Having said that, Sakura requires green which is not a given; Radiant Fountain, Bojuka, Slayers', Sunhome, Ghost Quarter, and Tolaria West all can cast Amulet but not Sakura.
Does something like 4 Amulet, 4 Stirrings, 3 Sakura, 4 Explore, 2 Azusa, and 1 Mia and Denn seem reasonable? I don't see how we can keep Explore at 3 when it is an integral part of T2 kills and cantrips as a late game draw. Scouts/Azusa also die to all of our sweepers while Mia and Dinn survives EE and Firespout/KReturn (while blocking a ton of the format). I'm also drawn to Academy Ruins and a heavier reliance on maybe 2xEE MB to keep go wide in check.
The Life From the Loam and Mortuary Mire (from the video) look great in grindfest. World Breaker could also be cool, hitting Blood Moon, getting found by stirrings, while recurring for the cost of just a land.
Thoughts on Coalition Relic? It's very easy to get to 6 mana on the following turn which is obviously the breakpoint our deck is built around.
4 amulet of vigor
4 serum visions
4 Sakura tribe scout
4 ancient stirrings
2 explore
3 Azusa lost but seeking
1 courser of kruphix
4 summoners pact
4 primeval Titan
1 walking ballista
1 engineered explosives
4 Simic growth chamber
4 gruul turf
4 gemstone mine
3 botanical sanctum
3 tolaria West
2 forest
1 cavern of souls
1 bojuka big
1 Vesuva
1 boros garrison
1 slayers stronghold
1 sunhome
1 radiant fointain
1 khalni garden
SIDEBOARD:
3 swan song
1 pact of negation
1 hornet queen
1 ghost quarter
1 mortuary mire
2 kozileks return
2 dismember
2 tireless tracker
1 ruric thar
1 thragtusk
What do you guys think of my list? It has been doing extremely well. Mainboard why do people split the gruul turf and sylesnia sanctuary? I would think that having all the red sources for sb cards is optimal.
Also not sold on the last 4 cards in my sideboard, maybe shave some for more dismember or k return. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Polymorph would only cost 4 mana and the scions can either chump block or ramp...
Also call the scions is colorless for ancient stirrings.
Two 1/1 scions can come down on Turn 3 or turn 2 with an amulet. Turn 4 you can polymorph a scion into emrakul or primeval titan or turn 3 with an amulet in play.
With Simian Spirit Guide you can Turn 2 polymorph a plant token but than you run into the problem of morphing a SSG instead of PrimeTime or Emrakul.