Hey guys, first of all, I apolozige if my phrases does not seem to clear, I'm new with english language...
So, I was thinking about run just 3 collonades and 1 temple (or 2 and 2) cause it's not so good in early game as temple can be, and have two of they in the mid/end does not make much difference. In the other hand, with all the draws we do, it's not so hard to find one of then when we really need (mid game). I not tryed temples yet so it's just a guess... What do you think about it?
Other point: with all these multicolored decks in the atual field, why not run sundering titan?
Hey guys, first of all, I apolozige if my phrases does not seem to clear, I'm new with english language...
So, I was thinking about run just 3 collonades and 1 temple (or 2 and 2) cause it's not so good in early game as temple can be, and have two of they in the mid/end does not make much difference. In the other hand, with all the draws we do, it's not so hard to find one of then when we really need (mid game). I not tryed temples yet so it's just a guess... What do you think about it?
Other point: with all these multicolored decks in the atual field, why not run sundering titan?
Temples could be good, but I tend to like Colonnade a lot more. I think Colonnade is, on average, a lot better. One Scry usually isn't as good as the manland is at blocking things or killing off Planeswalkers. Maybe a 3-1, I'd never play less than 3 Colonnades personally. We tend to want the tapped lands early but not late because we have things to do late, and Scrying in the mid game isn't as good when we can just draw a ton of cards.
With Sundering Titan, it's not as good as it seems. It's fine against UWR, but the deck sees little play. The same applies for Zoo. It's good against BGx, but Sigarda (which I now run) is much better. Bloom Titan doesn't run lands I can hit, and the Grixis decks don't play Cryptic so Iona is better (and sometimes Elesh Norn to wrath them).
Thank you for the help, about the colonnades I'll try 3-1, and sundering titan was probably a bad idea anyway...
But now I am curious about your decklist with sigarda. I always love this card since my first time in magic (innistrad block), and I really want to see how do you fit it on the deck.
Thank you for the help, about the colonnades I'll try 3-1, and sundering titan was probably a bad idea anyway...
But now I am curious about your decklist with sigarda. I always love this card since my first time in magic (innistrad block), and I really want to see how do you fit it on the deck.
It's just a 1-of sideboard card, and I've only ever brought it in against Junk. You cut Elesh Norn and Iona and bring in Sigarda, that's it. The point is that Sigarda has good survivability because she has hexproof and gets around Liliana sacrifice, so she can't die unless you're blocking a Rhino that has Exalted, which is not all that common given that list is uncommon compared to the other Junk list.
Wurmcoil has typically been a card that's good against midrange decks not running Path and aggressive decks. When the midrange decks now run Path (BGx->Junk for Path) and the aggro decks now kill you on turn 4 or faster sometimes, then it's actually kinda slow. I've found it to be mediocre against Burn since they can just Skullcrack you the same turn. It's a lot easier to leave up Skullcrack if they know your intentions, and if you resolve Iona and they have Path, you pretty much lose if you get your Wurmcoil Skullcracked. I think I posted a couple weeks ago how at my LGS weekly, I lost to Burn twice after resolving Wurmcoil. I think cutting Wurmcoil is quite reasonable. I tried a Batterskull and found it to not be as good as I expected, and I guess Wurmcoil is quite similar. You mileage may vary with Batterskull if you're concerned about Path.
Leyline is good. It's particularly for Burn and Junk, but I bring it in for some fringe matchups too like 8Rack. Considering Wurmcoil won't work reliably against Burn, Leyline has done a fair bit of work for me. It usually can buy you the time you need for Gifts combo. It's a free spell that Burn has to deal with. They're realistically not going to win while it's on the field, and so they have to use a 2-mana card to answer it that only deals 2, which is below the curve for their damage. You probably net a turn. If they draw a no-creature opening, there's another turn it bought you. I run 4, some people run fewer. I did the stats on 4 vs 3 a while ago, I don't have the numbers off my head nor the time to do the math right now. The card itself is never clunky when I play it, but it can be clunky for the sideboard. It really depends on how well you can answer these decks with other cards. If a single Sigarda works for you, then maybe it's not that good. If like 2 Timely and a Purge work to answer Burn, then maybe this isn't that good. It really depends on how much you value your slots. I think the math I did suggested Leylines were very good, but I did over-value them a bit during the math.
Could we spend the wurmcoil slot on something else main board? Like another Counter or more constancy?
Also did you got any good results off testing Serum Visions?
Regards
You could, I don't know what deck I'd want that slot to fill. A counter could work, Timely could work, a land or 5th Signet could work.
I didn't get good results from Serum Visions. It wasn't consistent enough on turn 1 and on subsequent turns, it was awkward with cards like Remand and Signet on turn 2, and Thirst on turn 3.
Could we spend the wurmcoil slot on something else main board? Like another Counter or more constancy?
Also did you got any good results off testing Serum Visions?
Regards
You could, I don't know what deck I'd want that slot to fill. A counter could work, Timely could work, a land or 5th Signet could work.
I didn't get good results from Serum Visions. It wasn't consistent enough on turn 1 and on subsequent turns, it was awkward with cards like Remand and Signet on turn 2, and Thirst on turn 3.
thx again !
I feel like my side board needs more improvement.
how do you play against gr tron?
I don't. I concede and move to the next game. It's like a 80-20 matchup for us. You have to try to race them and answer Karn if/when it shows up. As long as they realize to race you and don't get unlucky, you typically don't have a chance. They race a lot better than you. I'm 25% against them on MTGO in games. Each win uncharacteristically had like turn 5 Trons from them, so they were far behind.
Alternatively you can try playing something to straight up answer Tron. Karn works, Spreading Seas could work, Vedalken Plotter could work, even Ghost Quarter can work.
Does the modern masters reprint affect UW Tron at all?
There's going to be an Emrakul and Karn reprint, probably a Remand and Batterskull as well as Iona, Wurmcoil and Elesh Norn. It should be good if what you need are some of the expensive cards.
So, I've been trying Ugin in the Eye of Ugin slot and that's being amazing.
The thing about the eye is that it is only useful when I have at least 7 mana, and it can be found with map, ok. But with this same amount of mana I can cast Ugin, and impact the game as it enters the battlefield. Ok, in the really late game Eye is fine, but just a couple of games goes so far, and at this time I probably can get emrakul with thirsts, sphinx, or even just luck.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out why do you guys don't play Ugin. (And apologize again about my english)
Hi All - I have been playing UW Tron off and on since Moderns inception after a stint with Eggs helps me get most of the cards I needed to build the deck. I took my build to a Modern SCG IQ this weekend and ended up 4-2 which got me 12th place out of 46 people. For reference deck list is below.
Round 1: Burn 2-1
lost game 1 as expected. After board we looked like this; In: +3 Leyline of Sanctity +1 Wurmcoil Engine +1 Timely Reinforcements Out: -4 Remand -1 Emrakul.
I hit Leyline in my opening 7 so I snap keep. he lands a swiftspear and attacks for 1 for several turns. Finally starts bolting himself just to trigger prowess to get the extra damage in. I'm having a hard time finding anything of relevance. He gets me to 7 life and is at 13. I finally find gifts and Gifts for Iona and Rites and cast Rites on my turn naming red and he scoops. Game three was the same, found leyline early and Gifts turn 4 Iona turn 5.
Round 2: Grixis Delver 1-2
Really grindy game one. A lot of exchange of resources I end up finding an Eye of Ugin which gets me Emrakul and he concedes. I forgot how I boarded for this game but I think I brought in Negate, Swan song and Revelation. Not sure what I took out. Game two was another super grind fest but I end up not being able to find answers to his early delver. Game three wasn't even a fight. I had Revelation and Verdict in hand and only 2 colored sources in play the entire game. H e beats me pretty easily.
Round 3: Esper Control 2-0
I was surprised at how easy the control match up was for me. We love to draw go. Game one ends up in a situation where I'm actually doing things to further my game plan and he's just casting think twice and holding up counter magic. I'm cracking maps I'm playing Signets and he's not really doing anything. I cast Gifts and find Rites + Iona. I get Iona in play and name White and he EOTs Murderous Cut on her. At this point I Realize that the path to victory is going to be Emrakul. So we play draw go a little bit longer. He gets in some Snapcaster beats and I find Eye which finds me Emrakul. He plays some Cryptic tap your team tricks but I eventually run him out of those and he scoops to Emrakul. Same side board plan as last round because I'm not sure what to bring in other than better counter spells. It's a lot of draw go and he ends up resolving a Stoney Silence while I'm tapped out, not so great because I have a map and two tron pieces on board. So there's a lot of draw go and we end up in a board where he has Jace Architect of Thought ticking up and Stoney Silence on board. I'm getting nervous because I know if he ultimates Jace he takes my Emrakul. I end up naturally drawing my Ugin the Spirit Dragon and minus 4 to get rid of his board. I activate map find the missing Tron piece then play a Signet. He crashe his Colonnade into Ugin. I find a map which finds Eye. His EOT I activate Eye he casts Shadow of Doubt, fine. I cast Gifts, he Shadows me again, awesome. Untap naturally draw Emrakul and cast it. On my extra turn upkeep he commands to tap my team and draw a card. My next turn I move to combat, now he's on the "float a bunch of mana sac to annihilator animate Colonnade to block" plan. I path his Colonnade, he despises it and I path again and he scoops.
Round 4: Jund 0-2
There isn't much to say about this match. Jund did what Jund does best. Game one after having to Gifts for Wrath + Day + Verdict + Snapcaster and Wrath his board of Ooze Huntmaster, Wolf, and Goyf I get Ioan into play. I name black for the color he says it's fine. He untaps adds huntmaster times two to the board and passes back. I draw a land play it and pass back. He misses his flip trigger. craches in with all four dudes. I block one huntmaster and take 6. He passes turn, remembers the trigger on my upkeep, deals me 2 and bolts me for lethal. I side in my Leylines and mulligan to six to find one. Doesn't matter though because I draw the wrong half of my deck and can't cobble together anything and he wins pretty handily.
Round 5: 4 Color Teachings 2-0
At this point I'm 2-2 and my friend that I came with is 3-1. He has a better chance of making top 8 if he wins the next two rounds so I decide to play it out and see if I can make top 16 for the points. I sit down and see I'm playing another control match and I'm giddy. Game 1 is super, super grindy. Way more than the last control match I played. Only difference is he casts teaching about mid game so I'm wondering how many more of those he has in his deck. We trade resources back and fourth and both of our libraries are getting low. I cast Thirst for Knowledge and discard Emrakul and get back my graveyard. At this point it's elementary, he's top decking and all I have to do is find and cast Emrakul. He tries attacking with Colonnades and I have path to answer. I find Eye which finds Emrakul and he scoops. This time I try something a little different with my sideboard plan. I realized in my last Esper match that he had too many different colors that were important. I couldn't name just one to hose him on. So I decide to side out Iona and side in Sundering Titan. In: +1 Sundering Titan +1 Swan Song +1 Negate +1 Sphinx's Revelation. Out: -1 Wrath of God -1 Day of Judgment -1 Timely Reinforcements -1 Azorius Signet.
He's off to the races. I can tell he is trying to get this game over in a hurry. He casts Souls on 3 and flashes it back on 4. I'm kind of durdling around and finally get to cast Gifts finding Sundering Titan and Unburial Rites. I flashback Rites and blow up all his lands except for one Steam Vents and a Ghost Quarter. I pass, he sends in with the team again and passes back. I draw make Tron and then think. I have revelation in hand but he has 2 mana up and I'm worried about Negate. I crash in with Titan figuring I should get the damage in since I can't block Spirit tokens. I'm at 7 facing down 4 Spirits and he's at 11. At this point the judge calls time in the round. I pass and he gives me an opening. He taps out to cast Snapcaster at my EOT. I respond with Revelation for the full amount (x = 9). I discard down to hand size, keeping one of each Tron land, an Elesh Norn and 3 other cards. He takes his turn, Quarters my tower and sends in with the team for 6 putting me at 10. I untap, play my tower cast Elesh Norn and swing in with Titan for 9 putting him to 2 life. he draws, passes turn and I crash in with my 2 fatties for game.
Round 6: Ad Nauseam Combo 2-1
This was a fun match and he was a good kid so it was a blast to play. I knew he was on Ad Naus because he was sitting next to me during my Teachings match. I kept a hand that had 2 Remands in it so I was super OK with that. We play a lot of Draw Go and he is casting a lot of cantrips. He is just digging and I'm content to just play out signets always leaving up Remand. Finally he attempts to go off. He casts Angels grace on his upkeep and then cashes in all his artifacts for Ad Naus. I Remand it, he fights back with Pact of Negation. I let Pact resolve and then cast Remand on his Ad Naus again. He kind of shrugs and passes the turn. I untap, make Tron and cast Emrakul. He laughs and says "wow I like your deck." and then scoops. Game 2 I thought I was in a good spot ut he combos off and kills me. Game three I mulligan to four and keep a hand of Spellskite, Colonnade, Signaet and Leyline. I put Leyline into play and he concedes. Turns out he sided out his wipe away because he didn't see leyline game 2 and thought I wasn't playing it.
All in all I was very happy with how the day went. I made the top 16 my buddy ended up going 3-3 which was a bummer for him. I've already begun thinking about changes I'd make to the dck for next time. the big question in my mind is Eye of Ugin. that card single handedly cost me my Grixis and Jund matches because I drew it too early and didn't have a way to get id of it. but I cant justify not having it in if I'm playing Emrakul. To me they are a package deal. So do I cut another spell and go up to 26 lands or do I cut the package completely and move back over to Mindslaver? If any one out there has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks for reading.
After having a chance to test Mindslaver vs Emrakul in the Junk matchup, I actually preferred Emrakul. While Fulminator Mage certainly sucks, Crucible is awkward because I never really want to play it until I need it for returning lands, and it dies to a lot of cards. Assuming they bring in like 2 or 3 Nature's Claims, they'll have 7 or 8 cards to destroy it, which doesn't really sit well with me. Yeah, sometimes getting back Tron is good, but the Crucible just wasn't as impressive as I had hoped. While this makes Emrakul and Eye a lot more dead than Crucible, I like that win condition more against them. Emrakul is much harder for them to answer since they have Scavenging Ooze to potentially answer Mindslaver. On top of that, I've been finding in testing that having Map -> Eye -> Emrakul is better than Gifts -> Mindslaver Lock, because I want to be able to force find the win condition. I don't like cutting Eye because when I want Emrakul, I do want Eye in my deck. Yeah, you get some awkward draws out of it, but it also speeds up the process by quite a bit. If you were playing Mindslaver that could have been second Academy Ruins or Crucible, which both kind of suck as much as Eye does.
I don't know exactly how Eye cost you the matches, was it that you didn't have another land that you needed or what? You shouldn't treat Eye of Ugin as a land, it's more or less not. So I think of the deck playing 24+Eye (at least for me). I can't really see Eye hindering you other than having not drawn a land that you really needed. You can go up to 26 lands if you want and cut something else, it's mostly personal preference on some flex slots. Given Verdict troubles you might also want to consider Talisman of Progress.
Also, you definitely got to experience the primary problem with Verdict. While it's very good against decks like UWR Midrange or Delver because it's removal that can't be countered, it's also very awkward when you don't draw the second coloured source. I think after extensive testing that I like it enough given that problem, but it is certainly a problem.
Another thing is that your meta had two control decks you played against, which is pretty lucky for you. Control is a very good matchup for us if they're not playing some good LD package. That's because we ramp up mana without playing ramp spells, so we naturally get ahead of them and then use that to stay ahead until we get to Emrakul or whatever. I think I lost to UWR Control once and they double Tec Edged + Sowing Salted me, other than that I've pretty much stomped them.
I've been playing a bunch of Mono-U Tron. What's the advantage of this deck over the Mono blue? I could use some variety for sure, and there's some overlap in the cards to rec
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Semi-retired Lantern Player. I try to get out to play every once in awhile!
I've been playing a bunch of Mono-U Tron. What's the advantage of this deck over the Mono blue? I could use some variety for sure, and there's some overlap in the cards to rec
Mono U is more of a straight up control deck. They want to just play a dozen counterspells and just permission control everything. The idea is to let as little as you can resolve and eventually overcome them with something big, typically Platinum Angel, Wurmcoil, Batterskull, Sundering Titan, or Mindslaver lock. The one thing Mono U Tron has trouble with is creature decks because they don't particularly deal well when cards resolve. Repeal is not particularly efficient removal. The other thing is that aside from these various midgame cards like Wurmcoil and Sundering Titan, they have to get Tron out to win or last 6 or 7 turns to really do much of anything.
With UW Tron, you get two distinct options. You have the option of a late game plan like Mindslaver or Emrakul as well as a relatively early game plan in Gifts Combo (turn 4). You now shutdown certain decks the way Platinum Angel is supposed to, where you completely prevent them from winning. An example is Elesh Norn against Infect, where they simply scoop because they have 0 outs to her. On top of that, you relax a bit on the counters in order to play more removal, because we have access to white. We take three Wraths and four Paths, so now when people do play early creatures, you have answers. Additionally, when it comes to sideboarding, white is pretty much the best colour. You get options like Celestial Purge, Disenchant, Rule of Law, and Leyline of Sanctity.
As Mono U Tron you tend to play Dismember because you desperately need creature removal, but in UW Tron we're not so desperate because of four Paths, which sort of suggests why you'd play UW Tron over Mono U Tron.
I am trying a catch on the UW Tron.
How important is Emrakul in this? the lists I see here lately make use of him, while I also have some for comparing that did well without Emrakul.
In addition, what is the PRO and the CON of Ugin?
Emrakul is a trump card in most matches and an extra win condition if you can't Rites + Fatty. Most decks will just scoop to him.
Personally I love Ugin. he fits in nicely to the control aspect of the deck. The one game I cast him this weekend he was a three for one. Killing 2 of my opponents permanents and gaining me 4 life by preventing a colonnade from hitting me. unlike Standard where Hero's Downfall is running around all over the place planeswalkers are kind of hard to deal with. And one as powerful as Ugin is more so.
@darksteel88 Basically I drew Eye at bad times where another colored source would probably have been better. In the Grixis match I drew it on turn 6 where an untapped colored source would have been much MUCH better. Playing Verdict was a last minute decision on my part because I wanted the option to gifts for 3 wraths and a snapcaster. I understood the cost when I made that decision. in that spot I had an Oblivion Ring which just doesn't do the same thing. I originally had Talisman in the deck and I am now thinking I want to add it back in but I am unsure of what to cut. Unlike most lists I like having the three maps because it can find Eye along with Tron pieces or Colonnades. I was thinking about cutting a Seachrome Coast in favor of a Flooded Strand. that way I can search out a colored source. That may be the avenue I take for that. I can't justify cutting any number of Remands, Paths, or Signets to make room for the Talisman so it's something to consider.
I am trying a catch on the UW Tron.
How important is Emrakul in this? the lists I see here lately make use of him, while I also have some for comparing that did well without Emrakul.
In addition, what is the PRO and the CON of Ugin?
I've stated both of these before in the thread, so you can go search for those to find out. I apologize but I've typed this up a few times, I'm getting a little tired of it. If you find my writeups, link me so I can save them for situations like this.
@darksteel88 Basically I drew Eye at bad times where another colored source would probably have been better. In the Grixis match I drew it on turn 6 where an untapped colored source would have been much MUCH better. Playing Verdict was a last minute decision on my part because I wanted the option to gifts for 3 wraths and a snapcaster. I understood the cost when I made that decision. in that spot I had an Oblivion Ring which just doesn't do the same thing. I originally had Talisman in the deck and I am now thinking I want to add it back in but I am unsure of what to cut. Unlike most lists I like having the three maps because it can find Eye along with Tron pieces or Colonnades. I was thinking about cutting a Seachrome Coast in favor of a Flooded Strand. that way I can search out a colored source. That may be the avenue I take for that. I can't justify cutting any number of Remands, Paths, or Signets to make room for the Talisman so it's something to consider.
Yeah, sometimes Eye will burn you but it's good a lot of the time as well. I have seen it in the sideboard once as someone's concession that it's not good a lot of the time, but in certain matchups it's very important. It really depends what your meta looks like. If you're seeing slower decks like Junk, Twin, or any control, the Eye is very good. If you're seeing aggro decks like Burn, Affinity, and Infect, then you'd rather not have it. In my meta, there's a fair amount of everything, and I think the value in the Junk/Twin is good enough to support it.
I've been liking triple Wrath against BGx because it's very good against them. The whole idea is that I want to be able to make Gifts have more value in that matchup. In general I hate putting more value into Gifts because it puts you too all-in on it, but against Thoughtseize/Inquisition, shifting value into single cards becomes more attractive because you end up in top-deck mode. I've actually found triple Wrath a lot against them, because when we get grindy against them and are both in top deck, having that option is insane.
I think you should want to run 4 Path, 3-4 Remand, and 4 Signet before running the first Talisman. 2 Maps vs 3 or 4 Maps is personal preference. I also do like the idea of a second Flooded Strand over second Seachrome. As I keep playing, I'm liking Seachrome less and less. I'd never cut them all because of the value the first one has (when you open with Map and double Tron land, forcing the Seachrome fetch for the turn 3 land drop). I am testing a third basic right now though, so another Flooded Strand seems alright.
It seems just about reasonable to cut a land for a talisman (so 23 lands / 5 "signets"), as long as you're the sort of person that is happy with playing T2 signet for big T3 plays instead of holding up remand/whatever. You can also play path off a talisman which is cool.
WRT Eye of Ugin, having a colourless threat that is not Emrakul makes it slightly more valuable, because if you can tutor with it, you can play Wurmcoil/Sundering Titan/Plat Angel as a "midrange" threat.
So, I was thinking about run just 3 collonades and 1 temple (or 2 and 2) cause it's not so good in early game as temple can be, and have two of they in the mid/end does not make much difference. In the other hand, with all the draws we do, it's not so hard to find one of then when we really need (mid game). I not tryed temples yet so it's just a guess... What do you think about it?
Other point: with all these multicolored decks in the atual field, why not run sundering titan?
With Sundering Titan, it's not as good as it seems. It's fine against UWR, but the deck sees little play. The same applies for Zoo. It's good against BGx, but Sigarda (which I now run) is much better. Bloom Titan doesn't run lands I can hit, and the Grixis decks don't play Cryptic so Iona is better (and sometimes Elesh Norn to wrath them).
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
But now I am curious about your decklist with sigarda. I always love this card since my first time in magic (innistrad block), and I really want to see how do you fit it on the deck.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Leyline is good. It's particularly for Burn and Junk, but I bring it in for some fringe matchups too like 8Rack. Considering Wurmcoil won't work reliably against Burn, Leyline has done a fair bit of work for me. It usually can buy you the time you need for Gifts combo. It's a free spell that Burn has to deal with. They're realistically not going to win while it's on the field, and so they have to use a 2-mana card to answer it that only deals 2, which is below the curve for their damage. You probably net a turn. If they draw a no-creature opening, there's another turn it bought you. I run 4, some people run fewer. I did the stats on 4 vs 3 a while ago, I don't have the numbers off my head nor the time to do the math right now. The card itself is never clunky when I play it, but it can be clunky for the sideboard. It really depends on how well you can answer these decks with other cards. If a single Sigarda works for you, then maybe it's not that good. If like 2 Timely and a Purge work to answer Burn, then maybe this isn't that good. It really depends on how much you value your slots. I think the math I did suggested Leylines were very good, but I did over-value them a bit during the math.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I didn't get good results from Serum Visions. It wasn't consistent enough on turn 1 and on subsequent turns, it was awkward with cards like Remand and Signet on turn 2, and Thirst on turn 3.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Alternatively you can try playing something to straight up answer Tron. Karn works, Spreading Seas could work, Vedalken Plotter could work, even Ghost Quarter can work.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
The thing about the eye is that it is only useful when I have at least 7 mana, and it can be found with map, ok. But with this same amount of mana I can cast Ugin, and impact the game as it enters the battlefield. Ok, in the really late game Eye is fine, but just a couple of games goes so far, and at this time I probably can get emrakul with thirsts, sphinx, or even just luck.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out why do you guys don't play Ugin. (And apologize again about my english)
This is the list:
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Temple of Enlightment
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Flooded Strand
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
Creatures: 4
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts: 7
3 Expedition Map
4 Azorius Signet
Instants: 19
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Remand
4 Path to Exile
1 Condescend
1 Repeal
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Sorceries: 4
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Unburial Rites
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Suppression Field
1 Torpor Orb
1 Rule of Law
2 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spellskite
Main Deck (60)
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Condescend
1 Repeal
3 Expedition Map
4 Path to Exile
4 Azorius Signet
4 Remand
1 Timely Reinforcements
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Day of Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Unburial Rites
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Seachrome Coast
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Negate
2 Celestial Purge
2 Spellskite
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Tempest of Light
1 Timely Reinforcements
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
Round 1: Burn 2-1
lost game 1 as expected. After board we looked like this; In: +3 Leyline of Sanctity +1 Wurmcoil Engine +1 Timely Reinforcements Out: -4 Remand -1 Emrakul.
I hit Leyline in my opening 7 so I snap keep. he lands a swiftspear and attacks for 1 for several turns. Finally starts bolting himself just to trigger prowess to get the extra damage in. I'm having a hard time finding anything of relevance. He gets me to 7 life and is at 13. I finally find gifts and Gifts for Iona and Rites and cast Rites on my turn naming red and he scoops. Game three was the same, found leyline early and Gifts turn 4 Iona turn 5.
Round 2: Grixis Delver 1-2
Really grindy game one. A lot of exchange of resources I end up finding an Eye of Ugin which gets me Emrakul and he concedes. I forgot how I boarded for this game but I think I brought in Negate, Swan song and Revelation. Not sure what I took out. Game two was another super grind fest but I end up not being able to find answers to his early delver. Game three wasn't even a fight. I had Revelation and Verdict in hand and only 2 colored sources in play the entire game. H e beats me pretty easily.
Round 3: Esper Control 2-0
I was surprised at how easy the control match up was for me. We love to draw go. Game one ends up in a situation where I'm actually doing things to further my game plan and he's just casting think twice and holding up counter magic. I'm cracking maps I'm playing Signets and he's not really doing anything. I cast Gifts and find Rites + Iona. I get Iona in play and name White and he EOTs Murderous Cut on her. At this point I Realize that the path to victory is going to be Emrakul. So we play draw go a little bit longer. He gets in some Snapcaster beats and I find Eye which finds me Emrakul. He plays some Cryptic tap your team tricks but I eventually run him out of those and he scoops to Emrakul. Same side board plan as last round because I'm not sure what to bring in other than better counter spells. It's a lot of draw go and he ends up resolving a Stoney Silence while I'm tapped out, not so great because I have a map and two tron pieces on board. So there's a lot of draw go and we end up in a board where he has Jace Architect of Thought ticking up and Stoney Silence on board. I'm getting nervous because I know if he ultimates Jace he takes my Emrakul. I end up naturally drawing my Ugin the Spirit Dragon and minus 4 to get rid of his board. I activate map find the missing Tron piece then play a Signet. He crashe his Colonnade into Ugin. I find a map which finds Eye. His EOT I activate Eye he casts Shadow of Doubt, fine. I cast Gifts, he Shadows me again, awesome. Untap naturally draw Emrakul and cast it. On my extra turn upkeep he commands to tap my team and draw a card. My next turn I move to combat, now he's on the "float a bunch of mana sac to annihilator animate Colonnade to block" plan. I path his Colonnade, he despises it and I path again and he scoops.
Round 4: Jund 0-2
There isn't much to say about this match. Jund did what Jund does best. Game one after having to Gifts for Wrath + Day + Verdict + Snapcaster and Wrath his board of Ooze Huntmaster, Wolf, and Goyf I get Ioan into play. I name black for the color he says it's fine. He untaps adds huntmaster times two to the board and passes back. I draw a land play it and pass back. He misses his flip trigger. craches in with all four dudes. I block one huntmaster and take 6. He passes turn, remembers the trigger on my upkeep, deals me 2 and bolts me for lethal. I side in my Leylines and mulligan to six to find one. Doesn't matter though because I draw the wrong half of my deck and can't cobble together anything and he wins pretty handily.
Round 5: 4 Color Teachings 2-0
At this point I'm 2-2 and my friend that I came with is 3-1. He has a better chance of making top 8 if he wins the next two rounds so I decide to play it out and see if I can make top 16 for the points. I sit down and see I'm playing another control match and I'm giddy. Game 1 is super, super grindy. Way more than the last control match I played. Only difference is he casts teaching about mid game so I'm wondering how many more of those he has in his deck. We trade resources back and fourth and both of our libraries are getting low. I cast Thirst for Knowledge and discard Emrakul and get back my graveyard. At this point it's elementary, he's top decking and all I have to do is find and cast Emrakul. He tries attacking with Colonnades and I have path to answer. I find Eye which finds Emrakul and he scoops. This time I try something a little different with my sideboard plan. I realized in my last Esper match that he had too many different colors that were important. I couldn't name just one to hose him on. So I decide to side out Iona and side in Sundering Titan. In: +1 Sundering Titan +1 Swan Song +1 Negate +1 Sphinx's Revelation. Out: -1 Wrath of God -1 Day of Judgment -1 Timely Reinforcements -1 Azorius Signet.
He's off to the races. I can tell he is trying to get this game over in a hurry. He casts Souls on 3 and flashes it back on 4. I'm kind of durdling around and finally get to cast Gifts finding Sundering Titan and Unburial Rites. I flashback Rites and blow up all his lands except for one Steam Vents and a Ghost Quarter. I pass, he sends in with the team again and passes back. I draw make Tron and then think. I have revelation in hand but he has 2 mana up and I'm worried about Negate. I crash in with Titan figuring I should get the damage in since I can't block Spirit tokens. I'm at 7 facing down 4 Spirits and he's at 11. At this point the judge calls time in the round. I pass and he gives me an opening. He taps out to cast Snapcaster at my EOT. I respond with Revelation for the full amount (x = 9). I discard down to hand size, keeping one of each Tron land, an Elesh Norn and 3 other cards. He takes his turn, Quarters my tower and sends in with the team for 6 putting me at 10. I untap, play my tower cast Elesh Norn and swing in with Titan for 9 putting him to 2 life. he draws, passes turn and I crash in with my 2 fatties for game.
Round 6: Ad Nauseam Combo 2-1
This was a fun match and he was a good kid so it was a blast to play. I knew he was on Ad Naus because he was sitting next to me during my Teachings match. I kept a hand that had 2 Remands in it so I was super OK with that. We play a lot of Draw Go and he is casting a lot of cantrips. He is just digging and I'm content to just play out signets always leaving up Remand. Finally he attempts to go off. He casts Angels grace on his upkeep and then cashes in all his artifacts for Ad Naus. I Remand it, he fights back with Pact of Negation. I let Pact resolve and then cast Remand on his Ad Naus again. He kind of shrugs and passes the turn. I untap, make Tron and cast Emrakul. He laughs and says "wow I like your deck." and then scoops. Game 2 I thought I was in a good spot ut he combos off and kills me. Game three I mulligan to four and keep a hand of Spellskite, Colonnade, Signaet and Leyline. I put Leyline into play and he concedes. Turns out he sided out his wipe away because he didn't see leyline game 2 and thought I wasn't playing it.
All in all I was very happy with how the day went. I made the top 16 my buddy ended up going 3-3 which was a bummer for him. I've already begun thinking about changes I'd make to the dck for next time. the big question in my mind is Eye of Ugin. that card single handedly cost me my Grixis and Jund matches because I drew it too early and didn't have a way to get id of it. but I cant justify not having it in if I'm playing Emrakul. To me they are a package deal. So do I cut another spell and go up to 26 lands or do I cut the package completely and move back over to Mindslaver? If any one out there has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks for reading.
I don't know exactly how Eye cost you the matches, was it that you didn't have another land that you needed or what? You shouldn't treat Eye of Ugin as a land, it's more or less not. So I think of the deck playing 24+Eye (at least for me). I can't really see Eye hindering you other than having not drawn a land that you really needed. You can go up to 26 lands if you want and cut something else, it's mostly personal preference on some flex slots. Given Verdict troubles you might also want to consider Talisman of Progress.
Also, you definitely got to experience the primary problem with Verdict. While it's very good against decks like UWR Midrange or Delver because it's removal that can't be countered, it's also very awkward when you don't draw the second coloured source. I think after extensive testing that I like it enough given that problem, but it is certainly a problem.
Another thing is that your meta had two control decks you played against, which is pretty lucky for you. Control is a very good matchup for us if they're not playing some good LD package. That's because we ramp up mana without playing ramp spells, so we naturally get ahead of them and then use that to stay ahead until we get to Emrakul or whatever. I think I lost to UWR Control once and they double Tec Edged + Sowing Salted me, other than that I've pretty much stomped them.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
With UW Tron, you get two distinct options. You have the option of a late game plan like Mindslaver or Emrakul as well as a relatively early game plan in Gifts Combo (turn 4). You now shutdown certain decks the way Platinum Angel is supposed to, where you completely prevent them from winning. An example is Elesh Norn against Infect, where they simply scoop because they have 0 outs to her. On top of that, you relax a bit on the counters in order to play more removal, because we have access to white. We take three Wraths and four Paths, so now when people do play early creatures, you have answers. Additionally, when it comes to sideboarding, white is pretty much the best colour. You get options like Celestial Purge, Disenchant, Rule of Law, and Leyline of Sanctity.
As Mono U Tron you tend to play Dismember because you desperately need creature removal, but in UW Tron we're not so desperate because of four Paths, which sort of suggests why you'd play UW Tron over Mono U Tron.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Emrakul is a trump card in most matches and an extra win condition if you can't Rites + Fatty. Most decks will just scoop to him.
Personally I love Ugin. he fits in nicely to the control aspect of the deck. The one game I cast him this weekend he was a three for one. Killing 2 of my opponents permanents and gaining me 4 life by preventing a colonnade from hitting me. unlike Standard where Hero's Downfall is running around all over the place planeswalkers are kind of hard to deal with. And one as powerful as Ugin is more so.
Yeah, sometimes Eye will burn you but it's good a lot of the time as well. I have seen it in the sideboard once as someone's concession that it's not good a lot of the time, but in certain matchups it's very important. It really depends what your meta looks like. If you're seeing slower decks like Junk, Twin, or any control, the Eye is very good. If you're seeing aggro decks like Burn, Affinity, and Infect, then you'd rather not have it. In my meta, there's a fair amount of everything, and I think the value in the Junk/Twin is good enough to support it.
I've been liking triple Wrath against BGx because it's very good against them. The whole idea is that I want to be able to make Gifts have more value in that matchup. In general I hate putting more value into Gifts because it puts you too all-in on it, but against Thoughtseize/Inquisition, shifting value into single cards becomes more attractive because you end up in top-deck mode. I've actually found triple Wrath a lot against them, because when we get grindy against them and are both in top deck, having that option is insane.
I think you should want to run 4 Path, 3-4 Remand, and 4 Signet before running the first Talisman. 2 Maps vs 3 or 4 Maps is personal preference. I also do like the idea of a second Flooded Strand over second Seachrome. As I keep playing, I'm liking Seachrome less and less. I'd never cut them all because of the value the first one has (when you open with Map and double Tron land, forcing the Seachrome fetch for the turn 3 land drop). I am testing a third basic right now though, so another Flooded Strand seems alright.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
WRT Eye of Ugin, having a colourless threat that is not Emrakul makes it slightly more valuable, because if you can tutor with it, you can play Wurmcoil/Sundering Titan/Plat Angel as a "midrange" threat.