Has anyone ever tried a build based around Disrupting Shoal? I was considering picking up a playset up mostly because I really think the art is cool for most of the kamigawa shoal cycle, but then I was thinking it would be good against decks like sun and moon who like to cheat out blood moon or chalice of the void with Simian Spirit Guide. It would also allow us to tap out the first few turns with minimal risk. I was hoping that someone had tried it before and could tell me how it went and what your thoughts were.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I played Disrupting Shoal in modern RUG delver and it worked in that deck. First of all it was super satisfying, but that deck was so focused on resolving one or two creatures and tempo'ing and 1 for 1'ing until victory. I think that Faeries is more capable of playing a long game and therefore is more interested in the card advantage game. Also our discard suite should catch a lot of this stuff. But if you did try it I would probably play miscreant, scions, vapor snags and just go for it!
I've never liked the idea of 2 for 1-ing myself. Against decks like sun and moon, you don't need to tap out early for anything. Just play safe and counter their early moon or chalice, or commit to a race if it's game 1 maybe. I think our sb options are fine to deal with RW prison, and it's not a particularly common deck in my experience, anyway.
Here's my current list. Ive swapped discard for a thought scour and tasigur package. Working well so far however I've been overdrawing tasigur so may swap 1 for gurmag angler. Thought scour filling the yard has been useful with snapcaster too. What is everyone's thoughts on collective brutality? Thinking about bringing 2 in instead of spell snare. Anyway some feedback would be appreciated.
I've also recently switched to a discard-less list, running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. Red splash aside, I think 9 fetches are important to increase the likelihood of turn 2 tasigur, which is one of the strongest plays we have. Also, playing with scour makes us want the 4th snap, since our flashback targets become more consistent.
Ancestral Vision is just too slow against most match ups. I recently cut my 3 sb copies altogether before switching to the grixis list. You may opt to keep them in the sb if your meta has a lot of grindy decks like BGx, jund, DS lists, or control. Grixis DS runs stubborn denial so I wouldn't want AV against them.
I definitely like CB sb for burn, elves, and combo/coco decks, but I don't like it mb. Sorcery speed is a big hindrance when most of our deck operates at instant speed. I think 1 copy of murderous cut is a must for scour lists. I've liked the 1 mb spell snare in Mackl's list, but you may try cb in its place and see how it runs. I would absolutely run at least 2-3 cb across the 75.
By the time you run 9 fetches to support early tasigur, a red splash isn't really any extra risk. Kommand has been an awesome value engine every time I've cast it. Blood moon in the sb hasn't seen much use yet, but I like the red for kommand, anyway. I'd also advocate a 3rd vclique to help your tempo game. Cage in the sb is going to hurt you as well as your opponent; id add another nihil spellbomb or something else altogether like surgical extraction.
Watching Valentin Mackl's coverage at both GP Copenhagen and GP Las Vegas was really insightful to help see how he focus on a tempo strategy most games. Good luck!
Here's my current list. Ive swapped discard for a thought scour and tasigur package. Working well so far however I've been overdrawing tasigur so may swap 1 for gurmag angler. Thought scour filling the yard has been useful with snapcaster too. What is everyone's thoughts on collective brutality? Thinking about bringing 2 in instead of spell snare. Anyway some feedback would be appreciated.
I've also recently switched to a discard-less list, running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. Red splash aside, I think 9 fetches are important to increase the likelihood of turn 2 tasigur, which is one of the strongest plays we have. Also, playing with scour makes us want the 4th snap, since our flashback targets become more consistent.
Ancestral Vision is just too slow against most match ups. I recently cut my 3 sb copies altogether before switching to the grixis list. You may opt to keep them in the sb if your meta has a lot of grindy decks like BGx, jund, DS lists, or control. Grixis DS runs stubborn denial so I wouldn't want AV against them.
I definitely like CB sb for burn, elves, and combo/coco decks, but I don't like it mb. Sorcery speed is a big hindrance when most of our deck operates at instant speed. I think 1 copy of murderous cut is a must for scour lists. I've liked the 1 mb spell snare in Mackl's list, but you may try cb in its place and see how it runs. I would absolutely run at least 2-3 cb across the 75.
By the time you run 9 fetches to support early tasigur, a red splash isn't really any extra risk. Kommand has been an awesome value engine every time I've cast it. Blood moon in the sb hasn't seen much use yet, but I like the red for kommand, anyway. I'd also advocate a 3rd vclique to help your tempo game. Cage in the sb is going to hurt you as well as your opponent; id add another nihil spellbomb or something else altogether like surgical extraction.
Watching Valentin Mackl's coverage at both GP Copenhagen and GP Las Vegas was really insightful to help see how he focus on a tempo strategy most games. Good luck!
Thanks for the feedback, ive just picked up 4 copies of leyline of the void for the sb so that will swap out my cages and spellbombs. I love vclique and snap and would happily go to 3 and 4 of them respectively if i can find the slots - i guess that would come from cutting AV from the main. With no discard suite i wanted another 1 drop to thoughtscour though. I considered murderous cut but thought that might be too much with the 3 tasigurs (1 of which is now an angler)
Can you post/ link me to your list? And in the current meta on a wider scale, where do you think AV belongs? MB or SB? I definitley want 3 in the 75
I'm currently running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. No one can really tell you what to run sb since it's a meta dependent choice, but I'd say AV doesn't belong in the 75 in the current meta. It's just a really slow card for such a fast paced format. Turn 1 suspend is an impact on your turn 5. It's good against grindy decks, and re most popular grindy deck is currently grixis Shadow which can just stubborn denial AV-feels bad man.
Mackl's list runs 3 tas 1 cut and it works fine for me. The increased fetch count is definitely a necessary part of running out turn 2 tas more often-can't turn 2 angler.
I also highly suggest you watch the coverage posted as the top comment in the Reddit thread. Mackl commentates his plays and it's very helpful to see/hear his tempo style strategy in his own words. Also, message ThatStoryTeller120 if you're interested in joining the faeries discord. Is a very helpful resource for instant feedback. Most of us aren't as frequent on here anymore
Here is a short article about Yuta's faeries on ChannelFireball. It explains the choice of the playset of Remands too (while opponent gets time-walked you get extra value of LotV, BB and AV).
Not sure Remand is worthwhile in a list with only Bitterblossom and no AV/LotV tho
IMHO he's playing WAY too many snaps. Even 3 snaps in that list is pushing it pre board.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I haven't played the game for some time, and see that there is some innovation made with Faeries.
I've always felt Mistbind Clique was the most reliable win condition of Faeries, so the only choice was whether you wanted to play it sure with Ancestral Vision, or wanted to grind your opponent and play it earlier with discard. However, now that Fatal Push is replacing Lightning Bolt in the format, and that all green midrange decks play Collected Company, Mistbind Clique looks worse than ever. Without it, the Faerie core is now reduced to just Bitterblossom, Spellstutter Sprite and Mutavault.
The two proposed solutions are either committing to the long game (Takahashi list), or adding this core to Grixis decks (Mackl list). I find this second solution quite smart, since you double your threats with Bitterblossom and make your deck less dependent on its graveyard than traditional Grixis Control and less vulnerable to Fatal Push than Death's Shadow decks.
I have started playing the Takahashi list. There are some details that I didn't like when I first saw it, like 4 Snapcaster Mages with just 15 cards you can give flashback in the maindeck, no room for massive removal in the board (even if Damnation's role is mostly filled by Liliana and Collective Brutality from the board, Engineered Explosives might still be necessary), having no life gain in the maindeck (without any way of getting rid of Bitterblossom and playing the long game), or playing 15 bad maindeck cards against Eldrazi Tron and only having 8 cards in the board you can bring in.
Probably I should look for those Huynh decklists I've despised all this time for not playing Mistbind Clique as well.
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Who is truer: you who are, or you who are to be?
Currently sleeved: WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Eldrazi tron is a pretty bad match up with any variation of faeries. Mackl's grixis list runs 4 blood moon, which have the downside of turning off our manlands, but are hopefully hurting the opponent more than us. I'm not convinced that blood moons are worth the dedicated slots to such a bad match up, though it does have good game against many other decks in the meta. Overall, Mackl's list is designed to protect an early creature, and out tempo the opponent by playing an aggressive control style. Yutas list is much more dedicated control, and even drops vclique for more grindy cards. AV really shines in a deck that is dedicated to abusing lili, but I've found it way too slow for even my sword control builds.
Mbind has been the pet card every fae player wants to play. It wasn't good pre-push imo and it's even worse now. It requires a lot of setup when our Faerie package is really pretty low, and efficient removal isn't just limited to fatal push. I ran Hyunhs sword list for about a year before recently switching to mackl's grixis list, and like the distinct difference in playstyle of control vs tempo. Blood moon aside, kommand has been excellent and I've explained in several posts why an increase fetch count is already necessary for tas builds. I would suggest testing yutas exact 75 for a few games and then Mackl's, and see which style you prefer. Yutas list is even less of a Faerie list than usual, but if you want to win it's a very strong list. Hyunhs UB sword control list is also good, I can't say which is best and it's also probably dependent on your meta. Good luck!
Here's my current list. Ive swapped discard for a thought scour and tasigur package. Working well so far however I've been overdrawing tasigur so may swap 1 for gurmag angler. Thought scour filling the yard has been useful with snapcaster too. What is everyone's thoughts on collective brutality? Thinking about bringing 2 in instead of spell snare. Anyway some feedback would be appreciated.
I've also recently switched to a discard-less list, running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. Red splash aside, I think 9 fetches are important to increase the likelihood of turn 2 tasigur, which is one of the strongest plays we have. Also, playing with scour makes us want the 4th snap, since our flashback targets become more consistent.
Ancestral Vision is just too slow against most match ups. I recently cut my 3 sb copies altogether before switching to the grixis list. You may opt to keep them in the sb if your meta has a lot of grindy decks like BGx, jund, DS lists, or control. Grixis DS runs stubborn denial so I wouldn't want AV against them.
I definitely like CB sb for burn, elves, and combo/coco decks, but I don't like it mb. Sorcery speed is a big hindrance when most of our deck operates at instant speed. I think 1 copy of murderous cut is a must for scour lists. I've liked the 1 mb spell snare in Mackl's list, but you may try cb in its place and see how it runs. I would absolutely run at least 2-3 cb across the 75.
By the time you run 9 fetches to support early tasigur, a red splash isn't really any extra risk. Kommand has been an awesome value engine every time I've cast it. Blood moon in the sb hasn't seen much use yet, but I like the red for kommand, anyway. I'd also advocate a 3rd vclique to help your tempo game. Cage in the sb is going to hurt you as well as your opponent; id add another nihil spellbomb or something else altogether like surgical extraction.
Watching Valentin Mackl's coverage at both GP Copenhagen and GP Las Vegas was really insightful to help see how he focus on a tempo strategy most games. Good luck!
Thanks for the feedback, ive just picked up 4 copies of leyline of the void for the sb so that will swap out my cages and spellbombs. I love vclique and snap and would happily go to 3 and 4 of them respectively if i can find the slots - i guess that would come from cutting AV from the main. With no discard suite i wanted another 1 drop to thoughtscour though. I considered murderous cut but thought that might be too much with the 3 tasigurs (1 of which is now an angler)
Can you post/ link me to your list? And in the current meta on a wider scale, where do you think AV belongs? MB or SB? I definitley want 3 in the 75
I'm currently running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. No one can really tell you what to run sb since it's a meta dependent choice, but I'd say AV doesn't belong in the 75 in the current meta. It's just a really slow card for such a fast paced format. Turn 1 suspend is an impact on your turn 5. It's good against grindy decks, and re most popular grindy deck is currently grixis Shadow which can just stubborn denial AV-feels bad man.
Mackl's list runs 3 tas 1 cut and it works fine for me. The increased fetch count is definitely a necessary part of running out turn 2 tas more often-can't turn 2 angler.
I also highly suggest you watch the coverage posted as the top comment in the Reddit thread. Mackl commentates his plays and it's very helpful to see/hear his tempo style strategy in his own words. Also, message ThatStoryTeller120 if you're interested in joining the faeries discord. Is a very helpful resource for instant feedback. Most of us aren't as frequent on here anymore
What is the discord group called? I'm having a little trouble finding it. Thanks
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"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Another note, cryptic is better Bb removal than Mbind, and snapping back cryptic is also a pretty important play. Snapcaster may not have many targets, but turn 3 flashback push or turn 4 flashback remand also seem pretty vital to yutas strategy.
Ware- I have asked Thatstroyteller120 to message you an invite
About increasing the fetch count, I think it is a bit sad to tear appart our "clean" manabase to switch to a really thorny one. With BB on the top of this, we end up losing so much life that we could be a Death shadow deck without death shadow... Fetch for shock = 3 faerie tokens :/
I'd be interrested in joining the discord too !
Someone actually tried DS with Bb and it's just not the same. You don't have the control to immediately lower your life for a big DS, and obviously can't sit at 2 life for 4 turns like the current lists do pretty often. I know what you're getting at, but unless you're trying to prolong the game super late every time, (like yutas list and in my experience, swords lists) one additional shock really doesn't make much difference (2 steam vents, one of which replaces a watery grave.) Discord players have recently been playing around 6 fetches, which yutas list also runs, so going to 9 with the strategy of pumping out a turn 2 tasigur makes a lot of sense to me. Cryptic command is always Bb insurance, and Mackl's list goes into a race most games, anyway. It's very much temp-aggro again.
Beyond this point everyone just return to PM'ing me for invites please, I didnt want the primer to get flooded with requests
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I think your deck is too heavy into red. Bb is a card that pressures our life already, so you don't want to be in a position to to have to shock all the time. Fatal push has made the appeal of terminate and bolt dissapear imo. The problem our deck has faced in the past is having early creature removal that's not totally dead mid-late game, like disfigure was. Bolt is nice reach but overall we're winning with flyers and manlands. Also, trying to get BR turn 2 for terminate is going to cause some mana issues, especially when you keep UUU in mind for cryptic. Valentin Mackl took a grixis list to day two of both GP Copenhagen and GP Vegas, but that was predominantly for 4 sb blood moon to bring in against eldrazi. K command is the best reason to splash red imo but even in my brief testing of Mackl's list, there are occasions where it's awkward to cast.
You answered your own question about scion, we don't even run that many faeries. I would look at Go for the Throat over Terminate, and also play another cryptic at least as well as some number of mana leak. I think countersquall is great sb, but not necessary main. Ancestral Vision is really slow and imo unplayable unless you're going against jund or some grindy match up that doesn't have counterspells. Good luck!
After playing faeries nonstop for the last month I wanted to pop back in and share my list. I've been having a lot of success with the deck and nearly winning some larger events (SCG IQ's, PPTQ's, etc) with my poor play getting in the way while still winning most local events and cash tournaments. First, here's my current list.
Snappy-Doo!
First obvious point of contention is zero snap casters. I was originally running 3, but they always ended up rotting in my hand for lack of actual targets. I then cut some for a few discard spells and now they have enough targets to warrant inclusion, but as we all know space is very tight. My main concern with them is that I almost never have time to actually cast them as 3 mana sorcery for discard or 3 mana instant to kill a thing are incredibly expensive. That said though I would like to work in a copy to the list, but the more spells I trim the less I want to run them. The main issue is that a lot of the deck isn't a valid target (creatures, blossoms, ancestrals) or very quickly becomes a blank target (discard, mana leak).
Permission
The mana leaks have been absolutely amazing. For a while I was on some combination of spell snare, logic knot, and countersquall/negate, but they were just too restrictive that I finally traded them for the leaks. Since we're not a turn 20 deck leak tends to be live the entire game as they should be dead before it is completely blanked. Even on turn 10 they can cast a spell or attack with a manland which makes leak live again against their follow up play or protects our incoming mistbind or tar pit activation. Also against the unfair decks like tron or BloodMoon.dec it is the card I want in my opener far more than literally anything else. They also play incredibly well alongside the hand disruption letting you know if you're being baited with a spell and being able to tag something important rather than the first thing that looks slightly scary.
Discard
The discard in the main has worked out very well when played along side the mana leaks and cryptics. I was originally running zero discard and full permission, but since adding them I am convinced it is correct. It adds a great deal of versatility and helps pave the way for cryptics or a back breaking mistbind clique. Even though I don't run serum visions or the like, we all know how important the information is just for knowing when you can or can't turn on a manland. Also the ability to interact on the first turn outside of removal is very important these days.
Mana Base
25 lands in the deck and I still want to run more. Of all the games I lose that aren't due to misplays they are almost entirely due to missing land drops. With a deck so heavy on 2-drops and especially powerful 4s I really, really want to hit my first 4 land drops. The 1 mana discard spells help to alleviate this a bit, but with so much utility and power in our mana base I'd still like to go up to 26. If I did add another land it would likely be either a fetid pools or an extra fetch land or perhaps the 4th copy of tar pit.
As always pendelhaven is absolutely fantastic and I'm still not considering trading it out for anything else. The utility of blocking with a flashed out sprite to snipe a lord of atlantis or blank a liliana, the last hope and make lingering souls a much weaker card are too much to ignore. It also acts as a pseudo manland that comes out untapped. The single faerie conclave looks very weird when I'm not maxed out on tar pits, but the cheaper activation and the faerie creature type has come up quite a lot. Not to mention that flying is unblockable most of the time.
The random river of tears is to help facilitate the turn 1 discard spells without having to fetch-shock and still have decent mana. I've tried tribal lands in their place, but it was so rare that they actually came out untapped that I just cut them entirely.
Win Cons
For a while I was trying out various giant game ending monsters, but have yet to find any that I like. I went through tasigur, grave titan, tomb stalker, and various swords. The delve creatures were almost always a 4-5 drop with the special ability of "doesn't die to fatal push" but were just too slow without a heavy fetch mana base or thought scours to speed them up. Swords were always hit or miss and with so mane small things that die to everything it's too easy to get tempo'd out of a game with them. Kalitas if nice in fair matches, but was far too ineffective a lot of the time and if the exile text doesn't matter he was just plain bad. Meanwhile the truly giant threats like the gravy train were amazing, but without a decent amount of velocity or card selection it's too common that they get stuck in the hand while you die. The titan was the best of the finishers that I've tried, but I'm still not sold on it. I really want another finisher outside of mistbind that doesn't rely on blossom to be effective.
Sideboard Options
The spreading seas are a recent addition after the double black on fulminator becoming a real problem far more than the body is relevant. Also we've all felt the pain of staring at 3 in hand when your opponent has the natural tron on the play. The sweepers and ratchet have been great and I am determined to fit in a third damnation somehow. Against various vial decks or lingering souls + giant monster decks it is too easy to fall behind on board if you stumble so I really feel like I need another way to catch up.
The downfall is just another removal spell that comes in against shadow and eldrazi decks that can still help me answer walkers. It might be the card that's cut for a damnation, but the kill a walker text does come up quite a lot so I'm hesitant to cut it.
Extra discard is there because when you really want it (ad naus, tron, etc) you tend to have enough bad cards that you'll want access to it. The brutality is specifically for burn as hitting one is so important against them and it is still serviceable against many others like fish or cryptic decks.
The kalitas, while bad in the main, is great in the side. Usually when he comes in he acts as our battle of wits, untap with him and you win the game. It's also the third graveyard interaction in the side with a split of nihil and cage as GY interaction. Our options for graveyard interaction are very different and some aren't actually useful against some GY oriented decks so I wanted a split. Not to mention the fact that cage is amazing against all the CoCo decks I think a copy is worth inclusion.
Help Wanted
I'd really like to add in a 26th land and work in at least one snapcaster mage. As I mentioned earlier, the games I lose are from missing land drops almost exclusively so I'd like to alleviate that somehow. I've tried playing with serum visions, but when combined with AV (which is far too important to cut) I rarely have the time for it and have to shock far more often than I'd like. I love snapcaster and have enough spells to make them solid cards, but they are expensive mana-wise and the more spells I cut the less effective they become.
In the end I want an extra land, a snapcaster, a win con that doesn't need blossom to end the game in short order, and a third damnation somewhere in the 75 but am at a complete loss as to what to cut for them. I have strongly considered cutting a brutality in the main for a damnation to run in game 1 since the meta is rather creature heavy, but the life gain and tempo from escalating it has been too important for me to be comfortable with losing them.
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—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I've also recently switched to a discard-less list, running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. Red splash aside, I think 9 fetches are important to increase the likelihood of turn 2 tasigur, which is one of the strongest plays we have. Also, playing with scour makes us want the 4th snap, since our flashback targets become more consistent.
Ancestral Vision is just too slow against most match ups. I recently cut my 3 sb copies altogether before switching to the grixis list. You may opt to keep them in the sb if your meta has a lot of grindy decks like BGx, jund, DS lists, or control. Grixis DS runs stubborn denial so I wouldn't want AV against them.
I definitely like CB sb for burn, elves, and combo/coco decks, but I don't like it mb. Sorcery speed is a big hindrance when most of our deck operates at instant speed. I think 1 copy of murderous cut is a must for scour lists. I've liked the 1 mb spell snare in Mackl's list, but you may try cb in its place and see how it runs. I would absolutely run at least 2-3 cb across the 75.
By the time you run 9 fetches to support early tasigur, a red splash isn't really any extra risk. Kommand has been an awesome value engine every time I've cast it. Blood moon in the sb hasn't seen much use yet, but I like the red for kommand, anyway. I'd also advocate a 3rd vclique to help your tempo game. Cage in the sb is going to hurt you as well as your opponent; id add another nihil spellbomb or something else altogether like surgical extraction.
Watching Valentin Mackl's coverage at both GP Copenhagen and GP Las Vegas was really insightful to help see how he focus on a tempo strategy most games. Good luck!
I'm currently running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. No one can really tell you what to run sb since it's a meta dependent choice, but I'd say AV doesn't belong in the 75 in the current meta. It's just a really slow card for such a fast paced format. Turn 1 suspend is an impact on your turn 5. It's good against grindy decks, and re most popular grindy deck is currently grixis Shadow which can just stubborn denial AV-feels bad man.
Mackl's list runs 3 tas 1 cut and it works fine for me. The increased fetch count is definitely a necessary part of running out turn 2 tas more often-can't turn 2 angler.
Mackl's list can be found below
https://www.reddit.com/r/UBFaeries/comments/6hzav8/valentin_mackls_grixis_faeries_from_gp_vegas/
I also highly suggest you watch the coverage posted as the top comment in the Reddit thread. Mackl commentates his plays and it's very helpful to see/hear his tempo style strategy in his own words. Also, message ThatStoryTeller120 if you're interested in joining the faeries discord. Is a very helpful resource for instant feedback. Most of us aren't as frequent on here anymore
Didn't realize reddits link was busted.
https://m.twitch.tv/videos/147493191?t=7h23m50s&desktop-redirect=true
Start watching at about 7 hours 23 minutes
IMHO he's playing WAY too many snaps. Even 3 snaps in that list is pushing it pre board.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I've always felt Mistbind Clique was the most reliable win condition of Faeries, so the only choice was whether you wanted to play it sure with Ancestral Vision, or wanted to grind your opponent and play it earlier with discard. However, now that Fatal Push is replacing Lightning Bolt in the format, and that all green midrange decks play Collected Company, Mistbind Clique looks worse than ever. Without it, the Faerie core is now reduced to just Bitterblossom, Spellstutter Sprite and Mutavault.
The two proposed solutions are either committing to the long game (Takahashi list), or adding this core to Grixis decks (Mackl list). I find this second solution quite smart, since you double your threats with Bitterblossom and make your deck less dependent on its graveyard than traditional Grixis Control and less vulnerable to Fatal Push than Death's Shadow decks.
I have started playing the Takahashi list. There are some details that I didn't like when I first saw it, like 4 Snapcaster Mages with just 15 cards you can give flashback in the maindeck, no room for massive removal in the board (even if Damnation's role is mostly filled by Liliana and Collective Brutality from the board, Engineered Explosives might still be necessary), having no life gain in the maindeck (without any way of getting rid of Bitterblossom and playing the long game), or playing 15 bad maindeck cards against Eldrazi Tron and only having 8 cards in the board you can bring in.
Probably I should look for those Huynh decklists I've despised all this time for not playing Mistbind Clique as well.
Currently sleeved:
WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Mbind has been the pet card every fae player wants to play. It wasn't good pre-push imo and it's even worse now. It requires a lot of setup when our Faerie package is really pretty low, and efficient removal isn't just limited to fatal push. I ran Hyunhs sword list for about a year before recently switching to mackl's grixis list, and like the distinct difference in playstyle of control vs tempo. Blood moon aside, kommand has been excellent and I've explained in several posts why an increase fetch count is already necessary for tas builds. I would suggest testing yutas exact 75 for a few games and then Mackl's, and see which style you prefer. Yutas list is even less of a Faerie list than usual, but if you want to win it's a very strong list. Hyunhs UB sword control list is also good, I can't say which is best and it's also probably dependent on your meta. Good luck!
What is the discord group called? I'm having a little trouble finding it. Thanks
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Ware- I have asked Thatstroyteller120 to message you an invite
Someone actually tried DS with Bb and it's just not the same. You don't have the control to immediately lower your life for a big DS, and obviously can't sit at 2 life for 4 turns like the current lists do pretty often. I know what you're getting at, but unless you're trying to prolong the game super late every time, (like yutas list and in my experience, swords lists) one additional shock really doesn't make much difference (2 steam vents, one of which replaces a watery grave.) Discord players have recently been playing around 6 fetches, which yutas list also runs, so going to 9 with the strategy of pumping out a turn 2 tasigur makes a lot of sense to me. Cryptic command is always Bb insurance, and Mackl's list goes into a race most games, anyway. It's very much temp-aggro again.
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I am also interested
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
You answered your own question about scion, we don't even run that many faeries. I would look at Go for the Throat over Terminate, and also play another cryptic at least as well as some number of mana leak. I think countersquall is great sb, but not necessary main. Ancestral Vision is really slow and imo unplayable unless you're going against jund or some grindy match up that doesn't have counterspells. Good luck!
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Cryptic Command
4 Fatal Push
2 Go for the Throat
4 Mana Leak
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Collective Brutality
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Faerie Conclave
4 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Pendelhaven
4 Polluted Delta
1 River of Tears
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Collective Brutality
2 Damnation
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Spreading Seas
1 Thoughtseize
A few notes.
Snappy-Doo!
First obvious point of contention is zero snap casters. I was originally running 3, but they always ended up rotting in my hand for lack of actual targets. I then cut some for a few discard spells and now they have enough targets to warrant inclusion, but as we all know space is very tight. My main concern with them is that I almost never have time to actually cast them as 3 mana sorcery for discard or 3 mana instant to kill a thing are incredibly expensive. That said though I would like to work in a copy to the list, but the more spells I trim the less I want to run them. The main issue is that a lot of the deck isn't a valid target (creatures, blossoms, ancestrals) or very quickly becomes a blank target (discard, mana leak).
Permission
The mana leaks have been absolutely amazing. For a while I was on some combination of spell snare, logic knot, and countersquall/negate, but they were just too restrictive that I finally traded them for the leaks. Since we're not a turn 20 deck leak tends to be live the entire game as they should be dead before it is completely blanked. Even on turn 10 they can cast a spell or attack with a manland which makes leak live again against their follow up play or protects our incoming mistbind or tar pit activation. Also against the unfair decks like tron or BloodMoon.dec it is the card I want in my opener far more than literally anything else. They also play incredibly well alongside the hand disruption letting you know if you're being baited with a spell and being able to tag something important rather than the first thing that looks slightly scary.
Discard
The discard in the main has worked out very well when played along side the mana leaks and cryptics. I was originally running zero discard and full permission, but since adding them I am convinced it is correct. It adds a great deal of versatility and helps pave the way for cryptics or a back breaking mistbind clique. Even though I don't run serum visions or the like, we all know how important the information is just for knowing when you can or can't turn on a manland. Also the ability to interact on the first turn outside of removal is very important these days.
Mana Base
25 lands in the deck and I still want to run more. Of all the games I lose that aren't due to misplays they are almost entirely due to missing land drops. With a deck so heavy on 2-drops and especially powerful 4s I really, really want to hit my first 4 land drops. The 1 mana discard spells help to alleviate this a bit, but with so much utility and power in our mana base I'd still like to go up to 26. If I did add another land it would likely be either a fetid pools or an extra fetch land or perhaps the 4th copy of tar pit.
As always pendelhaven is absolutely fantastic and I'm still not considering trading it out for anything else. The utility of blocking with a flashed out sprite to snipe a lord of atlantis or blank a liliana, the last hope and make lingering souls a much weaker card are too much to ignore. It also acts as a pseudo manland that comes out untapped. The single faerie conclave looks very weird when I'm not maxed out on tar pits, but the cheaper activation and the faerie creature type has come up quite a lot. Not to mention that flying is unblockable most of the time.
The random river of tears is to help facilitate the turn 1 discard spells without having to fetch-shock and still have decent mana. I've tried tribal lands in their place, but it was so rare that they actually came out untapped that I just cut them entirely.
Win Cons
For a while I was trying out various giant game ending monsters, but have yet to find any that I like. I went through tasigur, grave titan, tomb stalker, and various swords. The delve creatures were almost always a 4-5 drop with the special ability of "doesn't die to fatal push" but were just too slow without a heavy fetch mana base or thought scours to speed them up. Swords were always hit or miss and with so mane small things that die to everything it's too easy to get tempo'd out of a game with them. Kalitas if nice in fair matches, but was far too ineffective a lot of the time and if the exile text doesn't matter he was just plain bad. Meanwhile the truly giant threats like the gravy train were amazing, but without a decent amount of velocity or card selection it's too common that they get stuck in the hand while you die. The titan was the best of the finishers that I've tried, but I'm still not sold on it. I really want another finisher outside of mistbind that doesn't rely on blossom to be effective.
Sideboard Options
The spreading seas are a recent addition after the double black on fulminator becoming a real problem far more than the body is relevant. Also we've all felt the pain of staring at 3 in hand when your opponent has the natural tron on the play. The sweepers and ratchet have been great and I am determined to fit in a third damnation somehow. Against various vial decks or lingering souls + giant monster decks it is too easy to fall behind on board if you stumble so I really feel like I need another way to catch up.
The downfall is just another removal spell that comes in against shadow and eldrazi decks that can still help me answer walkers. It might be the card that's cut for a damnation, but the kill a walker text does come up quite a lot so I'm hesitant to cut it.
Extra discard is there because when you really want it (ad naus, tron, etc) you tend to have enough bad cards that you'll want access to it. The brutality is specifically for burn as hitting one is so important against them and it is still serviceable against many others like fish or cryptic decks.
The kalitas, while bad in the main, is great in the side. Usually when he comes in he acts as our battle of wits, untap with him and you win the game. It's also the third graveyard interaction in the side with a split of nihil and cage as GY interaction. Our options for graveyard interaction are very different and some aren't actually useful against some GY oriented decks so I wanted a split. Not to mention the fact that cage is amazing against all the CoCo decks I think a copy is worth inclusion.
Help Wanted
I'd really like to add in a 26th land and work in at least one snapcaster mage. As I mentioned earlier, the games I lose are from missing land drops almost exclusively so I'd like to alleviate that somehow. I've tried playing with serum visions, but when combined with AV (which is far too important to cut) I rarely have the time for it and have to shock far more often than I'd like. I love snapcaster and have enough spells to make them solid cards, but they are expensive mana-wise and the more spells I cut the less effective they become.
In the end I want an extra land, a snapcaster, a win con that doesn't need blossom to end the game in short order, and a third damnation somewhere in the 75 but am at a complete loss as to what to cut for them. I have strongly considered cutting a brutality in the main for a damnation to run in game 1 since the meta is rather creature heavy, but the life gain and tempo from escalating it has been too important for me to be comfortable with losing them.